The Trade/Free Agency Thread: All Eyes Toward The Offseason 2

RaisingArizona · Post #761 » by **RaisingArizona** » Sun Jun 12, 2016 11:38 pm

Letsgo is bringing it lately. I like it.

Safety Pickle · Post #762 » by **Safety Pickle** » Sun Jun 12, 2016 11:42 pm

letsgosuns wrote:I want to make sure I read this correctly. Did a Pacers fan say that a trade of Booker, Len, picks 4 and 13, and the two Miami picks is a good offer but may not be enough for Paul George?. Is that what was said? Because it is shocking to think a basketball fan could come up with something so asinine. Newsflash Pacers fan. If Larry Bird offered Paul George for Booker straight up, I would say NO 1,000,000 times. Who do you think George is huh? Sure, let's give the Pacers a brand new team. I would rather have Butler than George anyway. At least he is signed for four more years while George can leave after two years.

Look at how insane this trade idea is when you view it logically in terms of years of service:
Len: up to six more years of control
Booker: up to eight more years of control
Picks 4 and 13: up to nine years of control each
Miami Picks: up to nine years of control each
George: two years of control and then a player option

So the Suns would get only two years worth of a player while the Pacers can reap the benefits of this trade all the way to 2030 since the second Miami pick is slated for 2021. Sorry but if you want that kind of package from the Suns, you better find Doc Brown and go back to 1989 and bring back Jordan and Pippen. That is the only way the Suns are going to give up 14 years worth of assets.

The original trade is about as bad for us as Booker for George is for them

Post #763 » by **bwgood77** » Sun Jun 12, 2016 11:50 pm

letsgosuns wrote:You guys do not understand my reasoning of not trading Booker for George. I have explained it before I will explain it again. This has nothing to do with whether or not Booker is as good or ever will be as good as George. This has to do with the fact that Booker is 19 and the Suns control him for at least the next 8 years. George on the other hand can bolt whatever team he is on two years from now. You think the Suns should give up their 19 year old rookie who just made the all-rookie 1st team and can be on the Suns for the next 8+ years for a guy that can leave in two years. And actually in the second year, you know the trade rumors would come up saying should the Suns trade George because he can leave in free agency and you do not want to lose him for nothing.

Now if the Suns got a guarantee that they will win at least one championship with George in the next two years then sure, make the trade. But in reality, there is no guarantee they will even make the playoffs with George. The Pacers barely made the playoffs themselves in the East with George so why would I ever think George alone can catapult the Suns into a Western Conference contender. And there no way I am going to trade for him just for the hope that he might help attract free agents. Again this has nothing to do with Booker versus George. It is about not wanting the Suns to trade their best young players for a guy that possibly makes you no better than you already are and can take off in two years.

I understand your reasoning and I wouldn't want to trade what it would take to get him anyway. On top of that, I don't think they are ready to trade him. I'm just saying you calling another fan of another team asinine for not trading away the biggest star they've had since Reggie Miller, and probably is an all around better player than Miller, and perhaps one of the best players that have ever played for the Pacers, I don't agree with. I completely understand why a fan of the Pacers would NOT want to trade him unless they got a major haul. If I was a Pacers fan, there is NO way I would want to trade the best player the team has had in years for a bunch of unknowns, unless I thought there was a good chance he was going to leave in free agency.

If it was a fan of OUR team wanting to give up that kind of package for him, that doesn't make sense either, because it would gut our future and the west is too tough anyway and he would likely leave in two years.

I have been against a proposed hefty deal for George from the beginning as well. And I agree with you that I wouldn't want to give up Booker, who we control for 8 years and looks like he could be something special, for George, who could leave.

I was mostly posting that because I continuously see George proposals when I think there is no chance they are trading him anyway, and if they did, it would take too much and doesn't make sense for our team.

letsgosuns · Post #764 » by **letsgosuns** » Mon Jun 13, 2016 12:20 am

bwgood77 wrote:
letsgosuns wrote:You guys do not understand my reasoning of not trading Booker for George. I have explained it before I will explain it again. This has nothing to do with whether or not Booker is as good or ever will be as good as George. This has to do with the fact that Booker is 19 and the Suns control him for at least the next 8 years. George on the other hand can bolt whatever team he is on two years from now. You think the Suns should give up their 19 year old rookie who just made the all-rookie 1st team and can be on the Suns for the next 8+ years for a guy that can leave in two years. And actually in the second year, you know the trade rumors would come up saying should the Suns trade George because he can leave in free agency and you do not want to lose him for nothing.

Now if the Suns got a guarantee that they will win at least one championship with George in the next two years then sure, make the trade. But in reality, there is no guarantee they will even make the playoffs with George. The Pacers barely made the playoffs themselves in the East with George so why would I ever think George alone can catapult the Suns into a Western Conference contender. And there no way I am going to trade for him just for the hope that he might help attract free agents. Again this has nothing to do with Booker versus George. It is about not wanting the Suns to trade their best young players for a guy that possibly makes you no better than you already are and can take off in two years.

I understand your reasoning and I wouldn't want to trade what it would take to get him anyway. On top of that, I don't think they are ready to trade him. I'm just saying you calling another fan of another team asinine for not trading away the biggest star they've had since Reggie Miller, and probably is an all around better player than Miller, and perhaps one of the best players that have ever played for the Pacers, I don't agree with. I completely understand why a fan of the Pacers would NOT want to trade him unless they got a major haul. If I was a Pacers fan, there is NO way I would want to trade the best player the team has had in years for a bunch of unknowns, unless I thought there was a good chance he was going to leave in free agency.

If it was a fan of OUR team wanting to give up that kind of package for him, that doesn't make sense either, because it would gut our future and the west is too tough anyway and he would likely leave in two years.

I have been against a proposed hefty deal for George from the beginning as well. And I agree with you that I wouldn't want to give up Booker, who we control for 8 years and looks like he could be something special, for George, who could leave.

I was mostly posting that because I continuously see George proposals when I think there is no chance they are trading him anyway, and if they did, it would take too much and doesn't make sense for our team.

If you think Paul George is on the same level as Reggie Miller and/or is a better all around player than Miller, then Idk what to say. It will be impossible for us to agree on anything regarding George because I do not put him even in the same stratosphere as Miller. I do not really care about comparing individual numbers between them because I believe Miller played in an era of basketball where the competition was far superior than it is today. And when I think about all those incredible games Miller had in the playoffs during the 1990's, those are some of the greatest performances in NBA history. When I think of George, literally nothing comes to mind. What has he ever done where you say that was a historical performance by George.

8on · Post #765 » by **8on** » Mon Jun 13, 2016 12:25 am

letsgosuns wrote:You guys do not understand my reasoning of not trading Booker for George. I have explained it before I will explain it again. This has nothing to do with whether or not Booker is as good or ever will be as good as George. This has to do with the fact that Booker is 19 and the Suns control him for at least the next 8 years. George on the other hand can bolt whatever team he is on two years from now. You think the Suns should give up their 19 year old rookie who just made the all-rookie 1st team and can be on the Suns for the next 8+ years for a guy that can leave in two years. And actually in the second year, you know the trade rumors would come up saying should the Suns trade George because he can leave in free agency and you do not want to lose him for nothing.

Now if the Suns got a guarantee that they will win at least one championship with George in the next two years then sure, make the trade. But in reality, there is no guarantee they will even make the playoffs with George. The Pacers barely made the playoffs themselves in the East with George so why would I ever think George alone can catapult the Suns into a Western Conference contender. And there no way I am going to trade for him just for the hope that he might help attract free agents. Again this has nothing to do with Booker versus George. It is about not wanting the Suns to trade their best young players for a guy that possibly makes you no better than you already are and can take off in two years.

I dig it. We can chase Paul George in his free agency.

No need to trade for him. If we have built ourselves into a playoff time by the time he hits free agency, then he'll consider us. If we haven't, there's no use trading for him, because he'll leave.

The risk the Knicks made with the Carmelo Anthony trade is a dangerous one.

the truth is we don't need PG. he isn't a threat to us in a different conference, and i'm certainly not worried about him going to the Lakers. maybe that's where he'll sign anyway, in which case it makes little sense to trade for him.

nah, we got Book, Bled and TJ. let's see where that goes. you want the guy in his prime, sure, but the guy in his prime is about to be past his prime before you know it. the guy before his prime is about to be in his prime. THAT's the guy you want.

8on · Post #766 » by **8on** » Mon Jun 13, 2016 12:27 am

letsgosuns wrote: When I think of George, literally nothing comes to mind. What has he ever done where you say that was a historical performance by George.

for what it's worth, he was pretty fast in getting to his prime, but he hasn't been there long, and missed all of last year.

Frank Lee · Post #767 » by **Frank Lee** » Mon Jun 13, 2016 12:39 am

If McMully gets a chance at a player like Love, Butler, or even Okafor he'll do very thing within reason to land them. I'd guess he'd follow that with a hard push at a maybe max free agent... then sit back and let the Marketing Department spin it into ticket sales.

I'd applaud such efforts.... Plan B wont be too bad either... using all three picks and forcing the youthful rebuild onto Sarver's plate thus dealing Chandler, Tucker, and anyone else sniffing 30.

At this point, there is no where to go but up

My preference move is #4/Knight/Len maybe Mia pick for Butler
Draft a PF/C at 13 and 28
Then look for a PF in FA... and start with a tasty talk with Horford.

Bled / knight
Booker / Goodwin
Butler / Warren
Horford / Rookie/FA/?
Chandler/ FA/Rookie/?

Contender? not so much, but competitive and tough? yes.

I would not be surprised if they eyeball former Mildcats DWilliams or Jordan Hill as well. In fact, I'd almost lay even money Jordan Hill is a Sun next yr.

Post #768 » by **bwgood77** » Mon Jun 13, 2016 12:48 am

letsgosuns wrote:If you think Paul George is on the same level as Reggie Miller and/or is a better all around player than Miller, then Idk what to say. It will be impossible for us to agree on anything regarding George because I do not put him even in the same stratosphere as Miller. I do not really care about comparing individual numbers between them because I believe Miller played in an era of basketball where the competition was far superior than it is today. And when I think about all those incredible games Miller had in the playoffs during the 1990's, those are some of the greatest performances in NBA history. When I think of George, literally nothing comes to mind. What has he ever done where you say that was a historical performance by George.

George hasn't had a career yet to compare to Miller's long career, and he hasn't had the chance to do all Miller did. Miller was a little more of a one trick pony. But I said "since Miller" and is "probably the better all around player"..he is certainly a better two way player. I know you are not one who watches much outside of the Suns, but you are selling George short. I have high hopes for Booker and if someone told me you can decide now whether you would rather let Booker's career play out at your own risk, or I can guarantee he will end up as good as George, but no better, I'd take the latter in a heartbeat.

letsgosuns · Post #769 » by **letsgosuns** » Mon Jun 13, 2016 12:55 am

dantley4prez wrote:
letsgosuns wrote: When I think of George, literally nothing comes to mind. What has he ever done where you say that was a historical performance by George.

for what it's worth, he was pretty fast in getting to his prime, but he hasn't been there long, and missed all of last year.

Oh I agree. George might turn into one of the greatest playoff performers of all time. But as of right now, he is nothing close to that. Bwgood77 said he considers George a better all around player than Reggie Miller. I do not see how you can say that. Miller made the playoffs with the Pacers every year from 1990 to 2005 except one year in 1997. He playoff career average is 20.6 ppg on 45% fg, 39% 3 pts, and 89.3% ft in 37 mpg and he did it against incredible defenses like the Knicks and Bulls of the 1990's. That is amazing. Miller is one of the greatest players in NBA history.

letsgosuns · Post #770 » by **letsgosuns** » Mon Jun 13, 2016 1:11 am

bwgood77 wrote:
letsgosuns wrote:If you think Paul George is on the same level as Reggie Miller and/or is a better all around player than Miller, then Idk what to say. It will be impossible for us to agree on anything regarding George because I do not put him even in the same stratosphere as Miller. I do not really care about comparing individual numbers between them because I believe Miller played in an era of basketball where the competition was far superior than it is today. And when I think about all those incredible games Miller had in the playoffs during the 1990's, those are some of the greatest performances in NBA history. When I think of George, literally nothing comes to mind. What has he ever done where you say that was a historical performance by George.

George hasn't had a career yet to compare to Miller's long career, and he hasn't had the chance to do all Miller did. Miller was a little more of a one trick pony. But I said "since Miller" and is "probably the better all around player"..he is certainly a better two way player. I know you are not one who watches much outside of the Suns, but you are selling George short. I have high hopes for Booker and if someone told me you can decide now whether you would rather let Booker's career play out at your own risk, or I can guarantee he will end up as good as George, but no better, I'd take the latter in a heartbeat.

I find it strange that you make assumptions about how much basketball I watch. What makes you even think that? I actually watch far more non-Suns games than Suns games. I have watched many of George's games and I never would put him in the same breath as Miller. I still remember watching Miller hit the back to back threes live against the Knicks hearing Marv Albert screaming. The guy was an all-time great. Why are you speculating about how much sports I watch.

I will say this. There are quite a few players in the league I would rather have than George. Off the top of my head, I would rather have Curry, Thompson, Green, Lebron, Durant, Westbrook, Griffin, Paul, Lillard, Aldridge, Leonard, Butler, and Harden. Those are guys that just came to me immediately that I would rather have on the Suns. Whether or not you agree with me does not matter. It is not like I think I am right, it is just my opinion. I am not selling George short. He is a good player. But I like a lot of guys way more than him.

NTB · Post #771 » by **NTB** » Mon Jun 13, 2016 1:24 am

letsgosuns wrote:
bwgood77 wrote:
letsgosuns wrote:If you think Paul George is on the same level as Reggie Miller and/or is a better all around player than Miller, then Idk what to say. It will be impossible for us to agree on anything regarding George because I do not put him even in the same stratosphere as Miller. I do not really care about comparing individual numbers between them because I believe Miller played in an era of basketball where the competition was far superior than it is today. And when I think about all those incredible games Miller had in the playoffs during the 1990's, those are some of the greatest performances in NBA history. When I think of George, literally nothing comes to mind. What has he ever done where you say that was a historical performance by George.

George hasn't had a career yet to compare to Miller's long career, and he hasn't had the chance to do all Miller did. Miller was a little more of a one trick pony. But I said "since Miller" and is "probably the better all around player"..he is certainly a better two way player. I know you are not one who watches much outside of the Suns, but you are selling George short. I have high hopes for Booker and if someone told me you can decide now whether you would rather let Booker's career play out at your own risk, or I can guarantee he will end up as good as George, but no better, I'd take the latter in a heartbeat.

I find it strange that you make assumptions about how much basketball I watch. What makes you even think that? I actually watch far more non-Suns games than Suns games. I have watched many of George's games and I never would put him in the same breath as Miller. I still remember watching Miller hit the back to back threes live against the Knicks hearing Marv Albert screaming. The guy was an all-time great. Why are you speculating about how much sports I watch.

I will say this. There are quite a few players in the league I would rather have than George. Off the top of my head, I would rather have Curry, Thompson, Green, Lebron, Durant, Westbrook, Griffin, Paul, Lillard, Aldridge, Leonard, Butler, and Harden. Those are guys that just came to me immediately that I would rather have on the Suns. Whether or not you agree with me does not matter. It is not like I think I am right, it is just my opinion. I am not selling George short. He is a good player. But I like a lot of guys way more than him.

I respect your opinion but there is no way that Thompson, Westbrook, Griffin, Lillard or Harden is better than George. Only players I'd rather have on the Suns are: Curry, Lebron, Durant or Leonard on your list.

George has elite defense, very good offense, rebounding, ball handling, athleticsm, leadership, shooting... whatever you want from your franchise player.

dremill24 · Post #772 » by **dremill24** » Mon Jun 13, 2016 1:39 am

letsgosuns wrote:
bwgood77 wrote:
letsgosuns wrote:If you think Paul George is on the same level as Reggie Miller and/or is a better all around player than Miller, then Idk what to say. It will be impossible for us to agree on anything regarding George because I do not put him even in the same stratosphere as Miller. I do not really care about comparing individual numbers between them because I believe Miller played in an era of basketball where the competition was far superior than it is today. And when I think about all those incredible games Miller had in the playoffs during the 1990's, those are some of the greatest performances in NBA history. When I think of George, literally nothing comes to mind. What has he ever done where you say that was a historical performance by George.

George hasn't had a career yet to compare to Miller's long career, and he hasn't had the chance to do all Miller did. Miller was a little more of a one trick pony. But I said "since Miller" and is "probably the better all around player"..he is certainly a better two way player. I know you are not one who watches much outside of the Suns, but you are selling George short. I have high hopes for Booker and if someone told me you can decide now whether you would rather let Booker's career play out at your own risk, or I can guarantee he will end up as good as George, but no better, I'd take the latter in a heartbeat.

I find it strange that you make assumptions about how much basketball I watch. What makes you even think that? I actually watch far more non-Suns games than Suns games. I have watched many of George's games and I never would put him in the same breath as Miller. I still remember watching Miller hit the back to back threes live against the Knicks hearing Marv Albert screaming. The guy was an all-time great. Why are you speculating about how much sports I watch.

I will say this. There are quite a few players in the league I would rather have than George. Off the top of my head, I would rather have Curry, Thompson, Green, Lebron, Durant, Westbrook, Griffin, Paul, Lillard, Aldridge, Leonard, Butler, and Harden. Those are guys that just came to me immediately that I would rather have on the Suns. Whether or not you agree with me does not matter. It is not like I think I am right, it is just my opinion. I am not selling George short. He is a good player. But I like a lot of guys way more than him.

When did nostalgia and highlights become the barometer for determining how great a player was/is?

letsgosuns · Post #773 » by **letsgosuns** » Mon Jun 13, 2016 1:47 am

dremill24 wrote:
letsgosuns wrote:
bwgood77 wrote:
George hasn't had a career yet to compare to Miller's long career, and he hasn't had the chance to do all Miller did. Miller was a little more of a one trick pony. But I said "since Miller" and is "probably the better all around player"..he is certainly a better two way player. I know you are not one who watches much outside of the Suns, but you are selling George short. I have high hopes for Booker and if someone told me you can decide now whether you would rather let Booker's career play out at your own risk, or I can guarantee he will end up as good as George, but no better, I'd take the latter in a heartbeat.

I find it strange that you make assumptions about how much basketball I watch. What makes you even think that? I actually watch far more non-Suns games than Suns games. I have watched many of George's games and I never would put him in the same breath as Miller. I still remember watching Miller hit the back to back threes live against the Knicks hearing Marv Albert screaming. The guy was an all-time great. Why are you speculating about how much sports I watch.

I will say this. There are quite a few players in the league I would rather have than George. Off the top of my head, I would rather have Curry, Thompson, Green, Lebron, Durant, Westbrook, Griffin, Paul, Lillard, Aldridge, Leonard, Butler, and Harden. Those are guys that just came to me immediately that I would rather have on the Suns. Whether or not you agree with me does not matter. It is not like I think I am right, it is just my opinion. I am not selling George short. He is a good player. But I like a lot of guys way more than him.

When did nostalgia and highlights become the barometer for determining how great a player was/is?

Are you kidding me? I watched Miller his entire career. I think he was a better player than Paul George. What are you talking about. Seriously this is getting ridiculous. Nostalgia and highlights? Why don't you read this article about Reggie Miller and why he is one of the greatest players of all time before you claim I am using nostalgia and highlights as my case for how good he was. http://www.nba.com/pacers/news/book_reggie_031222.html

Post #774 » by **bwgood77** » Mon Jun 13, 2016 1:51 am

dremill24 wrote:
letsgosuns wrote:
bwgood77 wrote:
George hasn't had a career yet to compare to Miller's long career, and he hasn't had the chance to do all Miller did. Miller was a little more of a one trick pony. But I said "since Miller" and is "probably the better all around player"..he is certainly a better two way player. I know you are not one who watches much outside of the Suns, but you are selling George short. I have high hopes for Booker and if someone told me you can decide now whether you would rather let Booker's career play out at your own risk, or I can guarantee he will end up as good as George, but no better, I'd take the latter in a heartbeat.

I find it strange that you make assumptions about how much basketball I watch. What makes you even think that? I actually watch far more non-Suns games than Suns games. I have watched many of George's games and I never would put him in the same breath as Miller. I still remember watching Miller hit the back to back threes live against the Knicks hearing Marv Albert screaming. The guy was an all-time great. Why are you speculating about how much sports I watch.

I will say this. There are quite a few players in the league I would rather have than George. Off the top of my head, I would rather have Curry, Thompson, Green, Lebron, Durant, Westbrook, Griffin, Paul, Lillard, Aldridge, Leonard, Butler, and Harden. Those are guys that just came to me immediately that I would rather have on the Suns. Whether or not you agree with me does not matter. It is not like I think I am right, it is just my opinion. I am not selling George short. He is a good player. But I like a lot of guys way more than him.

When did nostalgia and highlights become the barometer for determining how great a player was/is?

I do admit that series of plays against the Knicks we the probably the most unbelievable thing I unfortunately missed, and not because I wasn't watching the game, it was because I thought it was over and ran upstairs, and then came down in disbelief it happened. But yeah, you can't define a guy's entire careeer by that. Miller could never be the best player on a championship team. George I think could be with the right players around him.

I mean down 6 points with like 17 seconds left.... [youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xHFqBRLNZXU[/youtube]

letsgosuns · Post #775 » by **letsgosuns** » Mon Jun 13, 2016 2:03 am

If you think Miller can never be the the best player on a championship team, then I guess you can say the same for Charles Barkley, Karl Malone, John Stockton, Patrick Ewing, and whichever other superstar ever made the finals in their career and never won. Miller made the finals as the best player on his team and lost to Kobe and Shaq. In that finals series, Miller averaged 24 pts, 4 ast, and 3 rbs. His fg% was down at 41% but his 3pt % was still 38% and he made 45 of 46 ft that series which is a 98% clip. His ppg total was also the highest on his team. I believe Miller's team in 1998 was also the only team ever to push the nineties Bulls to a seven game series in all six years the Bulls won titles. I am really surprised any long time NBA fan would question whether Miller is one of the best players ever. I think Miller's career proves it and I will leave it at that. If you think otherwise and that what George has done in his six years so far is better than what Miller did over 18 years, then that is what you think.

8on · Post #776 » by **8on** » Mon Jun 13, 2016 2:14 am

here's my way of comparing it.

Type A: Pure shooter, under 6'9"

A: Reggie Miller/Ray Allen/Chris Mullin
A-: Manu Ginobili
B: Kevin Martin/Michael Redd/etc.

Type B: Athletic playmaking wing, 6'5" to 6'11"

A+: LeBron/Dr. J
A: Oscar Robertson/Magic
A-: George McGinnis/Paul Pierce
B+: Paul George/Carmelo Anthony
B-: Tyreke Evans
C: Evan Turner

The one thing they have in common is scoring.
If it takes Reggie less shots to get the same amount of points than PG, then Reggie is the better scorer, and probably the better player.

Post #777 » by **bwgood77** » Mon Jun 13, 2016 2:20 am

He is one of the best players ever for what he did. I said George is probably a better all around player, and a better two way player. George may have his career cut short of whatever and may not end up with historically great stats, but he's already ranked 9th in MVP voting once whereas Miller was 13th once and 16th once. Miller made the all star game 5 times in 18 years while George has made it 3 times in 5 years. Five years into their career George is without a doubt the better player overall.

Post #778 » by **bwgood77** » Mon Jun 13, 2016 2:26 am

dantley4prez wrote:here's my way of comparing it.

Type A: Pure shooter, under 6'9"

A: Reggie Miller/Ray Allen/Chris Mullin
A-: Manu Ginobili
B: Kevin Martin/Michael Redd/etc.

Type B: Athletic playmaking wing, 6'5" to 6'11"

A+: LeBron/Dr. J
A: Oscar Robertson/Magic
A-: George McGinnis/Paul Pierce
B+: Paul George/Carmelo Anthony
B-: Tyreke Evans
C: Evan Turner

The one thing they have in common is scoring.
If it takes Reggie less shots to get the same amount of points than PG, then Reggie is the better scorer, and probably the better player.

What about defense? Or rebounding? Or assists?

Here is a comparison of their 6th, year, and George was out for his 5th.

http://bkref.com/tiny/QDqep

dremill24 · Post #779 » by **dremill24** » Mon Jun 13, 2016 2:29 am

Spoiler:

"And when i think about all those incredible games Miller had in the playoffs during the 1990's, those are some of the greatest performances in NBA history. When I think of George, literally nothing comes to mind."

"I still remember watching Miller hit the back to back threes live against the Knicks hearing Marv Albert screaming."

I didnt say anything about who is good/better. I asked an independent question, based largely on statements like those listed above. I realize you used other, more objective statements to make your case, but these were there too. Miller may be one of the greatest of all time, and may be much better than George. But using things like the above is where the (rhetorical) question came from.

letsgosuns · Post #780 » by **letsgosuns** » Mon Jun 13, 2016 2:32 am

bwgood77 wrote:He is one of the best players ever for what he did. I said George is probably a better all around player, and a better two way player. George may have his career cut short of whatever and may not end up with historically great stats, but he's already ranked 9th in MVP voting once whereas Miller was 13th once and 16th once. Miller made the all star game 5 times in 18 years while George has made it 3 times in 5 years. Five years into their career George is without a doubt the better player overall.

The reason I do not buy this is because the era Miller played in was so much better than the NBA era today. The older retired players joke about it nowadays but it is true. The quality of basketball players today is not nearly as good as in the 1990's overall. I am not saying George would not have been good in 1990's. But the fact remains, the two best teams of all-time are Dream Team I and II. Miller was on Dream Team II. He thrived in an era where every defender would hold onto him and grab him and foul him like crazy. Some common fouls in the 1990's would be considered flagrant 2's in 2016. It is the way it is. Ultimately it is impossible to compare past generations to current generations but if Miller played in 2016, I think he annihilates this league.