2022-23 Season Discussion and Speculation 4 - Trade season continues - No player trade restrictions

[Desertfox]

The fact that ppl here feel the need to basically post a book trying to explain that 22 is a good player is beyond hilarious

As hilarious as someone who's only real contribution to this discussion is lame trolling?
And the only reason that some much reference information is unfortunately needed is because so many are simply being too dense or oblivious to Ayton's true value to this team and need a scapegoat anytime they get stuck in their emotions over our injury struggles. But hey If I'm wrong on Ayton here, feel free to offer some semblance of an actually realistic alternative solution? Take as long as you need?

everytime I give my opinion on 22 its somehow always trolling. My question to you is this, when we had all the injuries and D.A had the chance to prove he can be the man on this team what exactly happen?

Aint nobody in the NBA that could have done much with the lineups we threw out there. We had literally NO healthy PGs for half the games. Ya'll see what happened when the 49ers ran out of QBs? And that was a really good team. Everyone here believes Booker is absolutely worth that SuperMax and yet we know how good the team was when Booker had no one else.

[sunsbg]

For advanced stats guys, how does Sabonis defense compare with DA's this season ? A strong season for Sabonis vs down for DA. He's a good offensive player though never been anything impressive in euro tournaments. I guess more space in NBA opens his game like for all those skilled Euros. D always been a concern for all of them and I guess his best D stats are not better than DA's worst.

[bwgood77]

As hilarious as someone who's only real contribution to this discussion is lame trolling?
And the only reason that some much reference information is unfortunately needed is because so many are simply being too dense or oblivious to Ayton's true value to this team and need a scapegoat anytime they get stuck in their emotions over our injury struggles. But hey If I'm wrong on Ayton here, feel free to offer some semblance of an actually realistic alternative solution? Take as long as you need?

everytime I give my opinion on 22 its somehow always trolling. My question to you is this, when we had all the injuries and D.A had the chance to prove he can be the man on this team what exactly happen?

Aint nobody in the NBA that could have done much with the lineups we threw out there. We had literally NO healthy PGs for half the games. Ya'll see what happened when the 49ers ran out of QBs? And that was a really good team. Everyone here believes Booker is absolutely worth that SuperMax and yet we know how good the team was when Booker had no one else.

Even he had Bledsoe and PJ Tucker for awhile, TJ, Chandler, Oubre, etc. A lot better than the lineups we have been throwing out there.

[bwgood77]

For advanced stats guys, how does Sabonis defense compare with DA's this season ? A strong season for Sabonis vs down for DA. He's a good offensive player though never been anything impressive in euro tournaments. I guess more space in NBA opens his game like for all those skilled Euros. D always been a concern for all of them and I guess his best D stats are not better than DA's worst.

Sabonis is solid defensively now, but your Def #s will always look better based on who you are playing with and what opponent teams/players sub in and out when you do. The Kings have been healthier than just about anyone. But Sabonis has been better than Ayton on that side regardless. Many C's have. It's a down year, though also harder when the people you play with constantly shuffle because you are used to communicating with other starters on defensive rotations, etc....so the scrubs they play with have a harder time getting up to speed, and it working cohesively.

[Blonde]

I don’t mind slotting Anunoby into the Crowder role at PF, though 3 unprotected firsts is too risky for someone with his health history. That trade puts a ton of faith into Ayton to protect the paint and rebound, I’m not sure how confident our front office can be on either of those two points right now. That said, I don’t think Johnson should be our permanent answer at the 4 either.

[irish22022]

I love OG but I'm curious where he plays on our team? Unless he's coming off the bench, I don't really know that we have room for him. We aren't demoting bridges or Cam Johnson. Ayton stays. Booker and Paul locked in. And it's not like these guys are leaving next year, what is the path to OG starting?

[WeekapaugGroove]

That said, I don’t think Johnson should be our permanent answer at the 4 either.

Why not? Johnson looks great, when he can stay healthy.



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[sunsbum]

BEST CENTERS ... PLAYING AT LEAST 658 MINUTES


WORST CENTERS ... PLAYING AT LEAST 658 MINUTES


EVERYBODY ON THE SUNS ... PLAYING AT LEAST 1 MINUTE


Real numbers that support the eye test that Ayton doesn't play defense, isn't that great on offense, and is frankly lazy and overpaid

I got to be honest could care less what he does during the regular season as long as he shows up in the playoffs and so far he has, as soon as he doesn't ill jump on board and we can trade him as soon as possible.

Too much noise this season in these +/- and on/off advanced stats anyway. Very misleading due to players having to play with crap starting lineups while others didn't have to. Bridges also playing against many benches which helps him a bit in this regard, so #s like this for this season with shuffling lineups and weird rotation patterns are pretty meaningless if you understand the metrics.

I dunno man, all the other best centers are at the top. This seems like another Ayton gimme..

[sunsbum]

I love OG but I'm curious where he plays on our team? Unless he's coming off the bench, I don't really know that we have room for him. We aren't demoting bridges or Cam Johnson. Ayton stays. Booker and Paul locked in. And it's not like these guys are leaving next year, what is the path to OG starting?

I wouldn't mind seeing Cam go back to the bench, less minutes(less of a
chance of injury?), more consistent offensive punch.

[sunsbum]

Jalen Smith racking up the DNPs on 11th seed Pacers in case all his fans conveniently stopped following him

[kennydorglas]

everytime I give my opinion on 22 its somehow always trolling. My question to you is this, when we had all the injuries and D.A had the chance to prove he can be the man on this team what exactly happen?

DeAndre Ayton is the reason we kept that ncaa thread alive lol
Not sure why GOK is mad tbh

Lol now that is funny! I do love the ncaa thread for sure. So your right about that man. It's more important to me though because despite Paul coming here, and all the promises and inferences made about star players coming here because of Paul, and our amazing culture change lol, It's now been three years in, Paul is ad good as gone sometime next season and what big names, stars or impact players have we even signed in those past 3 yrs?

Exactly none! What young athletic high end talent have we signed? None! What key impact veterans have we signed in the past 3 years? None! What draft prospects have we brought in to have young cost controlled talent? None. But I recognize that under Saver, were just not going to actually attract any legitimate talent or spend on any legitimate impact players to improve the significantly. That's why I advocate for the draft, because with someone like Saver, you have to explore the cheapest possible option for him to even consider it.

I'm just trying to explore avenues he might have actually accepted financially to sustain talent here. Ad for Ayton contributing to the lottery premise, I'd say it's clearly more the result of Paul's decline and our incredible number of injuries screwing everything up. And obviously not a player still putting up double/ double production whilst the rest of the team repeatedly offers stat lines of 0- 6 points average per contest.

Well it's not what that table 3 says so I beg to differ.

[KLEON]

As hilarious as someone who's only real contribution to this discussion is lame trolling?
And the only reason that some much reference information is unfortunately needed is because so many are simply being too dense or oblivious to Ayton's true value to this team and need a scapegoat anytime they get stuck in their emotions over our injury struggles. But hey If I'm wrong on Ayton here, feel free to offer some semblance of an actually realistic alternative solution? Take as long as you need?

everytime I give my opinion on 22 its somehow always trolling. My question to you is this, when we had all the injuries and D.A had the chance to prove he can be the man on this team what exactly happen?

I think it's mostly seen like that to so many here due to how your phrasing or stating it man! Of course your opinions are equally valid as much as anyone else's here and you're clearly not wrong on how frustrating Aytom's lack of physicality and aggression is. It does drive me mad with frustration sometimes. Probably the same as most people here because we need him to be elite, and he absolutely has the physical ability and athletic talents to legitimately dominate! But he's too easygoing and affable still. And as frilustrating as he can be at times, he still represents an elite talent and one of the very few that we actually have on this team. We need more talent here not less.

Especially with Paul's rapid departure since we've achieved exactly ZERO acquisitions of big names or elite star talents since Paul got here despite all the initial promises. So I'm apprehensive about just flippantly dumping one of the few elite young productive talents we still have. Anyways, the reason that so many see your comments as trolling more than opinion is because they're mostly more subjective than objective. Ayton's a mitch, Ayton's too soft, ayton's a p****, Ayton's this or that.......... whatever it is being said about Ayton and how it is stated or comes across overtly negative but nothing in contrast being constructive.

Again, I'm not saying you're at all wrong on Ayton on a lot of your opinions. But being objective also points out potential positives or mention of things that hw can or is improving on to balance out the blatant criticism. And as for what Ayton did to prove himself during our injuries, OBJECTIVELY, even coming back too early from his own ankle injury and then also coming back from illness early too ( both dumb decisions) but obviously still trying to help the team that's been decimated by injuries this year. He managed to put up multiple dominant games including one or maybe more I believe wherein he also had 20+ rebounds ( an area of complaint about him from many here).

And he did this while the rest of the either didn't even shoot or only put stat lines of 0-6 points or so throughout. So he was putting up double double production while the rest of the team was mostly MIA. take away the production he put up ( even while struggling) in those games, and tell me how many losses or blowouts we have instead of our current record! Without Ayton's contribution during these injuries, we'd be in the top 6 of the lottery already. That's basically what he did, even while struggling.

I'm guessing you ppl back D.A because of his potential which I've given up on because I thought he would be the next David Robinson. To me he looks like he doesn't care enough to be one of the best bigs of all time or currently. Just watch the game tonight against the Raptors. He will get the ball in the post and immediately its a fade away, no banging with the big to get to the rim or nothing. Majority of his rebounds are when he's by himself. When he gets a offense rebound he keeps putting the ball down instead of going up one time for a basket which I find senseless and I know the coaching staff must've highlight those mistakes. Why do you think Monty,Cp,Book and Bridges are always frustrated with him? Because he continously plays soft. I must admit that I've seen him have some brilliant games but he always take 10 steps back after having a brilliant game.
This year he really seems he doesn't care about this team especially since he got paid. I just wish this man reach out to the Dream or T.D to improve his game

[WeekapaugGroove]

Jalen Smith racking up the DNPs on 11th seed Pacers in case all his fans conveniently stopped following him

He probably just doesn't have a coach who knows how to use him or a PG that lets him excel

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[TeamTragic]

Jalen Smith racking up the DNPs on 11th seed Pacers in case all his fans conveniently stopped following him

He probably just doesn't have a coach who knows how to use him or a PG that lets him excel

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[sunsfan1o1]

Jalen Smith racking up the DNPs on 11th seed Pacers in case all his fans conveniently stopped following him

He probably just doesn't have a coach who knows how to use him or a PG that lets him excel

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You laugh but it just goes to show how bad James Jones is as a talent evaluator.

[WeekapaugGroove]

Read on Twitter

?t=gL1qHvXbK09b1-6fZ-9p0Q&s=19

This is interesting

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[Slim Charless]

I love OG but I'm curious where he plays on our team? Unless he's coming off the bench, I don't really know that we have room for him. We aren't demoting bridges or Cam Johnson. Ayton stays. Booker and Paul locked in. And it's not like these guys are leaving next year, what is the path to OG starting?

Ummmmm PF. Where Cam Johnson would be immediately moved to the bench lol....

I'd avoid all of that and would just trade him and picks for OG. That likely still wouldn't be enough as OG is that much better a player. So it would depend on how many more picks we need to give.

[sunsbg]

Jalen Smith racking up the DNPs on 11th seed Pacers in case all his fans conveniently stopped following him

He probably just doesn't have a coach who knows how to use him or a PG that lets him excel

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Ayton's shots decreased by five going from Rubio to CP3. I can't understand why people around here act like it's all on Ayton and his development has nothing to do with how he's been used. It's both.

[Slim Charless]

He probably just doesn't have a coach who knows how to use him or a PG that lets him excel

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You laugh but it just goes to show how bad James Jones is as a talent evaluator.

No worries there. Monty is a fantastic developer of talent and always gets the most out of his young guys.

COY Tavares Montgomery Williams FTW

[Blonde]

That said, I don’t think Johnson should be our permanent answer at the 4 either.

Why not? Johnson looks great, when he can stay healthy.



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I think Johnson can provide the same value off the bench vs as a starter with his offense. I worry about injury management and defensively would prefer a bigger framed body at his position to throw at big forwards. Bridges excels guarding 1-3, and while Cam can hold his own I’d rather not throw him against Zion, Giannis, Randle, Lebron etc. He seems a perfect, maybe overqualified, 6th man who can play 2-4 when needed.