Suns Offseason Thread 3: Spurned for the Spurs

[Nando88]

Too many ball handlers with JJ at the 3. Maybe he'll be more open to a bench role like iguodala and his success coming off the bench with GS.


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[Dambo]

Can't Joe alao play the 3?
If so please get him!

[JMac1]

Can someone please answer my question?

[teleblaze]

Why didn;t you land aldridge ffs, we could have helped you unload Tucker and someone else.
Now we have to deal with the white walkers

We tried like hell.

Could have changed your franchise from a treadmill to a legit contender if not this year the year then in the near future.
What do you think you are gonna do next season? what would you wanna do?

Also, how do you want to acquire JJ? how can you match the salaries at all?

[letsgosuns]

I remember last season I mentioned idea of the Suns trading for Joe Johnson and I was vilified for it.

As well you should.....don't want no part of the ex-girlfriend who left for greener pastures.......cost us a few titles easy! F NO!!

Everybody I said to trade for him is now off the team except Markieff. It does not matter. I mentioned it last year because I thought he would have helped the Suns for the stretch run to make the playoffs and he probably would have.

[RunDogGun]

Tucker + Markieff for Joe Johnson and Rondae

How? Tucker and Markieff would be $13 million and we have a little less than $9 million in cap space, right?

I don't see how Joe makes us better right now.

[MrMiyagi]

Why didn;t you land aldridge ffs, we could have helped you unload Tucker and someone else.
Now we have to deal with the white walkers

We tried like hell.

Could have changed your franchise from a treadmill to a legit contender if not this year the year then in the near future.
What do you think you are gonna do next season? what would you wanna do?

How the f*ck is a team who has 4 starters under 25 a treadmill team?

[teleblaze]

We tried like hell.

Could have changed your franchise from a treadmill to a legit contender if not this year the year then in the near future.
What do you think you are gonna do next season? what would you wanna do?

How the f*ck is a team who has 4 starters under 25 a treadmill team?

Relax, I just don't think a team can win a championship without a true star.

[JMac1]

How the f*ck is a team who has 4 starters under 25 a treadmill team?

That's the million dollar question I want answered. We are competing with young guys and people want to get rid of them because they don't suck enough?

They guys are still growing, I wish our fans could understand that. I wouldn't be mad if we gave Kieff another shot, thus I am not proposing a million trades for him..... I like our team.

I think I am the only one.

[tdjm]

Interesting post with thorough analysis by a Raps fan...

I really don't know what you're talking about.. He's not a very good fit for this team. He's too much like Patterson. Morris is a great shooter (50.31% 8-16 feet is 2nd highest for a PF in the league under only Ppat) and 40% 16-24 feet to go along with 31% from 3. No question he's a good shooter and a good fit in that sense, but he's a terrible rebounder. Only 6.2/game, but more importantly he gets 56.5% of his chances at the rebound which is average but an atrocious 36% contested rebound %. He wouldn't help our problem for defensive rebounding infact he would make it worse. Also, he is a defensive liability. He gets good steal numbers (1.2/game) but allows 52.4% FG% at the rim to go along with only .5 BPG. He is a poor fit next to Val defensively which would overall make our frontcourt unsustainable defensively. Not a good fit at all.

That fan is mostly right. He's absolutely a defensive liability getting blocks and near the rim, and he always will be due to his size, but that is almost completely irrelevant. Take a look at this https://twitter.com/SethPartnow/status/588807073841876992/photo/1. All the guys on the left are centers (except Serge Ibaka), or at least Cs who can masquerade as PFs. All the guys on the right are PFs. You need overwhelming size and length to protect the rim at the NBA level, which is almost exclusively found in centers. Yes, Markieff is ass as a rim protector, but rim protection is flat out not the job of NBA power forwards (exception Serge Ibaka, but there's a reason the Thunder [foolishly] chose to keep him over James Harden - his breed is rare). The job of most NBA power forwards is to cover in space, which Markieff is actually decent at.

Note what he said about good steal numbers. That's the hint of how to use Markieff on defense. He's not exceptionally athletic, but his foot speed and agility is very good for a PF. You use him to hedge and recover the pick and roll, or trap it, etc. Basically, you use him to keep the ball away from the hoop by containing penetration, or use him to funnel the ball towards the hoop but towards a rim protector (also notice our own Len on the left, #swag). This type of defense is pretty useful in an increasingly perimeter oriented league, even if it's not flashy like rim protection or weakside blocks.

Playing next to 2 rim protecting centers (Len, Chandler) complements exactly who he is on defense. Valanciunas is an uninspiring rim protector, and that front court would be a seriously poor pairing.

The rebounding is obviously well known to most Suns fans. It's mitigated slightly playing next to plus rebounders at other positions (Bledsoe, Tucker, Len/Chandler) but obviously still intensely aggravating.

As far as the shooting %'s go, I'm confident Markieff will continue to improve his 3p% (as it's the easiest thing to improve over your career, next to physical strength). That being said, I do object to how he is used. Those midrange %'s listed are elite, and Markieff is unreal good off of the dribble. What that means is instead of seeing him spotting up in those sweet spots, or posting up, I'd LOVE to see him involved as the roll man in the high pick and roll. Once he catches it in space, he's absurdly dangerous since he can actually literally pull up and shoot from anywhere (so you need to guard him close) and he almost always makes the right pass to the big man for a lob if he draws the second defender (his chemistry with Wright and Len was excellent and he hit them for easy buckets constantly - he also is smart about hitting guys like Archie and Warren when they're moving on the court with him).

Those midrange percentages combined with his ast% should be a clue that he needs to be a dangerous offensive hub, not a post player. Markieff is a player who would benefit immensely from some sharp and creative coaching (I'd even try to see him run the 4-5 pick and roll). Coincidentally, I don't believe Casey is sharp or creative enough to use him like this, so the bad fit with the Raptors continues. I worry Hornacek is not sharp enough to do this either. We shall see.

[RunDogGun]

$24 million for a 14/4.8/3.7? WTF!?

[JMac1]

Relax, I just don't think a team can win a championship with a true star.

We are not getting one, so better learn how.

[Nando88]

Have people still not eaten a snickers yet in here lol .


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[RunDogGun]

Have people still not eaten a snickers yet in here lol .


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I think it will take more than that.

[MrMiyagi]

How the f*ck is a team who has 4 starters under 25 a treadmill team?

That's the million dollar question I want answered. We are competing with young guys and people want to get rid of them because they don't suck enough?

They guys are still growing, I wish our fans could understand that. I wouldn't be mad if we gave Kieff another shot, thus I am not proposing a million trades for him..... I like our team.

I think I am the only one.

No. We are two!

Alex Len, Markieff Morris, Eric Bledsoe, Brandon Knight, TJ Warren, Archie Goodwin, and Devin Booker all have yet to play their best basketball.

All those guys jerking it to Paul Millsap forget that he was 28 when he made his first All-Star appearance, but have already given up on guys 3 years younger than that....

[Moochthemonkey]

Could have changed your franchise from a treadmill to a legit contender if not this year the year then in the near future.
What do you think you are gonna do next season? what would you wanna do?

How the f*ck is a team who has 4 starters under 25 a treadmill team?

Relax, I just don't think a team can win a championship with a true star.

good! because the Suns don't have a true star.

[RaisingArizona]

http://arizonasports.com/41/1847868/Report-Suns-potentially-targeting-Ryan-Anderson-and-looking-to-deal-Markieff-Morris

"Hearing the Suns are trying to deal Markieff Morris, who has an affordable 8M/yr deal. He and Hornacek don't get along, plus Marcus is gone.
12:48 PM - 6 Jul 2015"

[tweet]https://twitter.com/schultz_report/status/618129371119886341[/tweet]

WTH? Is the AZ site following this guy?! How accurate is it? It can't be to accurate, because no one is talking about it here. Sorry, I have been away from the computer for about 8 hours....Please fill me in.

That's the dummy who said Aldridge was close to signing with the Suns before the Wojbomb. He lost all credibility with that one.

[RaisingArizona]

$24 million for a 14/4.8/3.7? WTF!?

If JJ was 23, sure but he's not. No way that's even a remote possibility. I will resign here if that happens.

[RunDogGun]

I still don't get his assertion that Markieff and Jeff don't get along. I have never seen or heard anything like this.

[bwgood77]

Interesting post with thorough analysis by a Raps fan...

I really don't know what you're talking about.. He's not a very good fit for this team. He's too much like Patterson. Morris is a great shooter (50.31% 8-16 feet is 2nd highest for a PF in the league under only Ppat) and 40% 16-24 feet to go along with 31% from 3. No question he's a good shooter and a good fit in that sense, but he's a terrible rebounder. Only 6.2/game, but more importantly he gets 56.5% of his chances at the rebound which is average but an atrocious 36% contested rebound %. He wouldn't help our problem for defensive rebounding infact he would make it worse. Also, he is a defensive liability. He gets good steal numbers (1.2/game) but allows 52.4% FG% at the rim to go along with only .5 BPG. He is a poor fit next to Val defensively which would overall make our frontcourt unsustainable defensively. Not a good fit at all.

That fan is mostly right. He's absolutely a defensive liability getting blocks and near the rim, and he always will be due to his size, but that is almost completely irrelevant. Take a look at this https://twitter.com/SethPartnow/status/588807073841876992/photo/1. All the guys on the left are centers (except Serge Ibaka), or at least Cs who can masquerade as PFs. All the guys on the right are PFs. You need overwhelming size and length to protect the rim at the NBA level, which is almost exclusively found in centers. Yes, Markieff is ass as a rim protector, but rim protection is flat out not the job of NBA power forwards (exception Serge Ibaka, but there's a reason the Thunder [foolishly] chose to keep him over James Harden - his breed is rare). The job of most NBA power forwards is to cover in space, which Markieff is actually decent at.

Note what he said about good steal numbers. That's the hint of how to use Markieff on defense. He's not exceptionally athletic, but his foot speed and agility is very good for a PF. You use him to hedge and recover the pick and roll, or trap it, etc. Basically, you use him to keep the ball away from the hoop by containing penetration, or use him to funnel the ball towards the hoop but towards a rim protector (also notice our own Len on the left, #swag). This type of defense is pretty useful in an increasingly perimeter oriented league, even if it's not flashy like rim protection or weakside blocks.

Playing next to 2 rim protecting centers (Len, Chandler) complements exactly who he is on defense. Valanciunas is an uninspiring rim protector, and that front court would be a seriously poor pairing.

The rebounding is obviously well known to most Suns fans. It's mitigated slightly playing next to plus rebounders at other positions (Bledsoe, Tucker, Len/Chandler) but obviously still intensely aggravating.

As far as the shooting %'s go, I'm confident Markieff will continue to improve his 3p% (as it's the easiest thing to improve over your career, next to physical strength). That being said, I do object to how he is used. Those midrange %'s listed are elite, and Markieff is unreal good off of the dribble. What that means is instead of seeing him spotting up in those sweet spots, or posting up, I'd LOVE to see him involved as the roll man in the high pick and roll. Once he catches it in space, he's absurdly dangerous since he can actually literally pull up and shoot from anywhere (so you need to guard him close) and he almost always makes the right pass to the big man for a lob if he draws the second defender (his chemistry with Wright and Len was excellent and he hit them for easy buckets constantly - he also is smart about hitting guys like Archie and Warren when they're moving on the court with him).

Those midrange percentages combined with his ast% should be a clue that he needs to be a dangerous offensive hub, not a post player. Markieff is a player who would benefit immensely from some sharp and creative coaching (I'd even try to see him run the 4-5 pick and roll). Coincidentally, I don't believe Casey is sharp or creative enough to use him like this, so the bad fit with the Raptors continues. I worry Hornacek is not sharp enough to do this either. We shall see.

Great post. I think Hornacek is sharp enough. He's an extremely smart guy.