2022-23 Season Discussion and Speculation 4 - Trade season continues - No player trade restrictions

[kennydorglas]

Steve nash as a shooting coach? I'll definitely go for that.

[sunsbum]

He probably just doesn't have a coach who knows how to use him or a PG that lets him excel

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You laugh but it just goes to show how bad James Jones is as a talent evaluator.

Agreed, Cam Johnson is garbage and in a repick of his draft would probably be the 6th or 7th best player overall, drafted at 11 when 3 or 4 players better than him had already been drafted.

[sunsfan1o1]

You laugh but it just goes to show how bad James Jones is as a talent evaluator.

Agreed, Cam Johnson is garbage and in a repick of his draft would probably be the 6th or 7th best player overall, drafted at 11 when 3 or 4 players better than him had already been drafted.

You’re an unintelligent human. Stop trying to infect us with what you have.
It’s 1 pt for Cam Johnson
-1 for each of the following
Smith
Landale
Okogie
Craig
Shamet
Jerome
Who am I missing?

[WeekapaugGroove]

Jalen Smith racking up the DNPs on 11th seed Pacers in case all his fans conveniently stopped following him

He probably just doesn't have a coach who knows how to use him or a PG that lets him excel

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Ayton's shots decreased by five going from Rubio to CP3. I can't understand why people around here act like it's all on Ayton and his development has nothing to do with how he's been used. It's both.

I never mentioned Ayton. This is about Haliburton and Carlisle holding back Jalen Smith

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[TeamTragic]

Read on Twitter

This is interesting

Nash looking for a new job

[sunsbg]

He probably just doesn't have a coach who knows how to use him or a PG that lets him excel

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Ayton's shots decreased by five going from Rubio to CP3. I can't understand why people around here act like it's all on Ayton and his development has nothing to do with how he's been used. It's both.

I never mentioned Ayton. This is about Haliburton and Carlisle holding back Jalen Smith

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Sure.

[sunsbum]

You laugh but it just goes to show how bad James Jones is as a talent evaluator.

Agreed, Cam Johnson is garbage and in a repick of his draft would probably be the 6th or 7th best player overall, drafted at 11 when 3 or 4 players better than him had already been drafted.

You’re an unintelligent human. Stop trying to infect us with what you have.
It’s 1 pt for Cam Johnson
-1 for each of the following
Smith
Landale
Okogie
Craig
Shamet
Jerome
Who am I missing?

The logic here. Surely you see it?

[BobbieL]

Read on Twitter

This is interesting

Nash looking for a new job

Shooting coach - sure
PR person - good
analyst on pregame show - sure

Coaching on bench - umm,. no

[Ghost of Kleine]

everytime I give my opinion on 22 its somehow always trolling. My question to you is this, when we had all the injuries and D.A had the chance to prove he can be the man on this team what exactly happen?

I think it's mostly seen like that to so many here due to how your phrasing or stating it man! Of course your opinions are equally valid as much as anyone else's here and you're clearly not wrong on how frustrating Aytom's lack of physicality and aggression is. It does drive me mad with frustration sometimes. Probably the same as most people here because we need him to be elite, and he absolutely has the physical ability and athletic talents to legitimately dominate! But he's too easygoing and affable still. And as frilustrating as he can be at times, he still represents an elite talent and one of the very few that we actually have on this team. We need more talent here not less.

Especially with Paul's rapid departure since we've achieved exactly ZERO acquisitions of big names or elite star talents since Paul got here despite all the initial promises. So I'm apprehensive about just flippantly dumping one of the few elite young productive talents we still have. Anyways, the reason that so many see your comments as trolling more than opinion is because they're mostly more subjective than objective. Ayton's a mitch, Ayton's too soft, ayton's a p****, Ayton's this or that.......... whatever it is being said about Ayton and how it is stated or comes across overtly negative but nothing in contrast being constructive.

Again, I'm not saying you're at all wrong on Ayton on a lot of your opinions. But being objective also points out potential positives or mention of things that hw can or is improving on to balance out the blatant criticism. And as for what Ayton did to prove himself during our injuries, OBJECTIVELY, even coming back too early from his own ankle injury and then also coming back from illness early too ( both dumb decisions) but obviously still trying to help the team that's been decimated by injuries this year. He managed to put up multiple dominant games including one or maybe more I believe wherein he also had 20+ rebounds ( an area of complaint about him from many here).

And he did this while the rest of the either didn't even shoot or only put stat lines of 0-6 points or so throughout. So he was putting up double double production while the rest of the team was mostly MIA. take away the production he put up ( even while struggling) in those games, and tell me how many losses or blowouts we have instead of our current record! Without Ayton's contribution during these injuries, we'd be in the top 6 of the lottery already. That's basically what he did, even while struggling.

I'm guessing you ppl back D.A because of his potential which I've given up on because I thought he would be the next David Robinson. To me he looks like he doesn't care enough to be one of the best bigs of all time or currently. Just watch the game tonight against the Raptors. He will get the ball in the post and immediately its a fade away, no banging with the big to get to the rim or nothing. Majority of his rebounds are when he's by himself. When he gets a offense rebound he keeps putting the ball down instead of going up one time for a basket which I find senseless and I know the coaching staff must've highlight those mistakes. Why do you think Monty,Cp,Book and Bridges are always frustrated with him? Because he continously plays soft. I must admit that I've seen him have some brilliant games but he always take 10 steps back after having a brilliant game.
This year he really seems he doesn't care about this team especially since he got paid. I just wish this man reach out to the Dream or T.D to improve his game

Yes! I can fully agree with this post and honestly do share your concerns and perspective here. Everything you said here is objectively on point. It's often fast or famine with him. And I just as much as everyone else here long painfully for him to become what he has the potential and athletic ability to become. Primarily I back DA because we simply don't have that much talent on the roster to begin with. Our supermax superstar player is becoming increasingly prone to repetitive lingering leg injuries. Our HOF jey floor general is declining so rapidly and honestly will likely be gone as soon as next season. Bridges and Johnson have good flashes and give me a bit of hope, But still far to early to feel truly confident in them being number two level options to Booker (even IF) Booker can somehow make the leap to becoming a number #1 option??

So in that realization, we need more talent not less! Additionally beyond that we initially were promised that acquiring Paul would cause stars and other high end players to come here! So far we've acquired exactly nothing in the way of big names or star players or key free agents. Again the reality is that we really struggle to even add talent or impact players. On top of that we haven't added any young cost controlled talent from the draft whatsoever to balance our roster and or supplement our cores future viability.

Due to these realities, I'm really hesitant to just give up a still young only 24 yr old big with elite versatility and offensive efficiency and who's already shown to excel in the playoffs. And who happens to be an easy walking double/ double machine on any given night even when he struggles without having an equivalent talent lined up in a trade to offset what we'd clearly lose in dumping/ trading him. It's just more logical to support the notion/ hope for his continued development under this new owner who might actually spend to improve the team, rather than to just seek offloading more of the little remaining talent we'll have because he frustrates people.

Once another 7 ft big with double double production on elite efficiency and with elite versatility and athleticism becomes readily available, I'll absolutely endorse trading Ayton for him. Until then, I'm just trying to be positive and hold onto what we actually have.

[WeekapaugGroove]

Read on Twitter

This is interesting

Nash looking for a new job

Shooting coach - sure
PR person - good
analyst on pregame show - sure

Coaching on bench - umm,. no

I doubt Nash even wants to get back into coaching. He always struck me more of a front office or even business side guy. Far less day to day stress.

Sent from my SM-G986U using RealGM mobile app

[BobbieL]

Nash looking for a new job

Shooting coach - sure
PR person - good
analyst on pregame show - sure

Coaching on bench - umm,. no

I doubt Nash even wants to get back into coaching. He always struck me more of a front office or even business side guy. Far less day to day stress.

Sent from my SM-G986U using RealGM mobile app

PR move - all for it

[bigfoot]

Shooting coach - sure
PR person - good
analyst on pregame show - sure

Coaching on bench - umm,. no

I doubt Nash even wants to get back into coaching. He always struck me more of a front office or even business side guy. Far less day to day stress.

Sent from my SM-G986U using RealGM mobile app

PR move - all for it

No ... he is going to be CP3's backup

[TeamTragic]

Shooting coach - sure
PR person - good
analyst on pregame show - sure

Coaching on bench - umm,. no

I doubt Nash even wants to get back into coaching. He always struck me more of a front office or even business side guy. Far less day to day stress.

Sent from my SM-G986U using RealGM mobile app

PR move - all for it

Nash just wants a salary.

PASS

[Saberestar]

Jalen Smith racking up the DNPs on 11th seed Pacers in case all his fans conveniently stopped following him

He probably just doesn't have a coach who knows how to use him or a PG that lets him excel

Sent from my SM-G986U using RealGM mobile app

Ayton's shots decreased by five going from Rubio to CP3. I can't understand why people around here act like it's all on Ayton and his development has nothing to do with how he's been used. It's both.

And we went from a non-playoff team to the Finals.

Team success over individual success.

I think for now the team is much better with Ayton on an smaller role and that was verified with his meh games recently as a primary option on offense.

[KLEON]

I doubt Nash even wants to get back into coaching. He always struck me more of a front office or even business side guy. Far less day to day stress.

Sent from my SM-G986U using RealGM mobile app

PR move - all for it

No ... he is going to be CP3's backup

I'm for it

[KLEON]

I think it's mostly seen like that to so many here due to how your phrasing or stating it man! Of course your opinions are equally valid as much as anyone else's here and you're clearly not wrong on how frustrating Aytom's lack of physicality and aggression is. It does drive me mad with frustration sometimes. Probably the same as most people here because we need him to be elite, and he absolutely has the physical ability and athletic talents to legitimately dominate! But he's too easygoing and affable still. And as frilustrating as he can be at times, he still represents an elite talent and one of the very few that we actually have on this team. We need more talent here not less.

Especially with Paul's rapid departure since we've achieved exactly ZERO acquisitions of big names or elite star talents since Paul got here despite all the initial promises. So I'm apprehensive about just flippantly dumping one of the few elite young productive talents we still have. Anyways, the reason that so many see your comments as trolling more than opinion is because they're mostly more subjective than objective. Ayton's a mitch, Ayton's too soft, ayton's a p****, Ayton's this or that.......... whatever it is being said about Ayton and how it is stated or comes across overtly negative but nothing in contrast being constructive.

Again, I'm not saying you're at all wrong on Ayton on a lot of your opinions. But being objective also points out potential positives or mention of things that hw can or is improving on to balance out the blatant criticism. And as for what Ayton did to prove himself during our injuries, OBJECTIVELY, even coming back too early from his own ankle injury and then also coming back from illness early too ( both dumb decisions) but obviously still trying to help the team that's been decimated by injuries this year. He managed to put up multiple dominant games including one or maybe more I believe wherein he also had 20+ rebounds ( an area of complaint about him from many here).

And he did this while the rest of the either didn't even shoot or only put stat lines of 0-6 points or so throughout. So he was putting up double double production while the rest of the team was mostly MIA. take away the production he put up ( even while struggling) in those games, and tell me how many losses or blowouts we have instead of our current record! Without Ayton's contribution during these injuries, we'd be in the top 6 of the lottery already. That's basically what he did, even while struggling.

I'm guessing you ppl back D.A because of his potential which I've given up on because I thought he would be the next David Robinson. To me he looks like he doesn't care enough to be one of the best bigs of all time or currently. Just watch the game tonight against the Raptors. He will get the ball in the post and immediately its a fade away, no banging with the big to get to the rim or nothing. Majority of his rebounds are when he's by himself. When he gets a offense rebound he keeps putting the ball down instead of going up one time for a basket which I find senseless and I know the coaching staff must've highlight those mistakes. Why do you think Monty,Cp,Book and Bridges are always frustrated with him? Because he continously plays soft. I must admit that I've seen him have some brilliant games but he always take 10 steps back after having a brilliant game.
This year he really seems he doesn't care about this team especially since he got paid. I just wish this man reach out to the Dream or T.D to improve his game

Yes! I can fully agree with this post and honestly do share your concerns and perspective here. Everything you said here is objectively on point. It's often fast or famine with him. And I just as much as everyone else here long painfully for him to become what he has the potential and athletic ability to become. Primarily I back DA because we simply don't have that much talent on the roster to begin with. Our supermax superstar player is becoming increasingly prone to repetitive lingering leg injuries. Our HOF jey floor general is declining so rapidly and honestly will likely be gone as soon as next season. Bridges and Johnson have good flashes and give me a bit of hope, But still far to early to feel truly confident in them being number two level options to Booker (even IF) Booker can somehow make the leap to becoming a number #1 option??

So in that realization, we need more talent not less! Additionally beyond that we initially were promised that acquiring Paul would cause stars and other high end players to come here! So far we've acquired exactly nothing in the way of big names or star players or key free agents. Again the reality is that we really struggle to even add talent or impact players. On top of that we haven't added any young cost controlled talent from the draft whatsoever to balance our roster and or supplement our cores future viability.

Due to these realities, I'm really hesitant to just give up a still young only 24 yr old big with elite versatility and offensive efficiency and who's already shown to excel in the playoffs. And who happens to be an easy walking double/ double machine on any given night even when he struggles without having an equivalent talent lined up in a trade to offset what we'd clearly lose in dumping/ trading him. It's just more logical to support the notion/ hope for his continued development under this new owner who might actually spend to improve the team, rather than to just seek offloading more of the little remaining talent we'll have because he frustrates people.

Once another 7 ft big with double double production on elite efficiency and with elite versatility and athleticism becomes readily available, I'll absolutely endorse trading Ayton for him. Until then, I'm just trying to be positive and hold onto what we actually have.

Must be the first time agreeing with you on a D.A situation

[bwgood77]

I got to be honest could care less what he does during the regular season as long as he shows up in the playoffs and so far he has, as soon as he doesn't ill jump on board and we can trade him as soon as possible.

Too much noise this season in these +/- and on/off advanced stats anyway. Very misleading due to players having to play with crap starting lineups while others didn't have to. Bridges also playing against many benches which helps him a bit in this regard, so #s like this for this season with shuffling lineups and weird rotation patterns are pretty meaningless if you understand the metrics.

I dunno man, all the other best centers are at the top. This seems like another Ayton gimme..

Yeah, the best Cs are usually at the top, all of these real plus/minus are still dependent on who you play with and against, and for Phoenix this year, that is drastically different than what any other C or team has faced being so ravaged by injuries. Usually these are ok metrics to use as long as you know how they are calculated and how to use them.

I'm not saying Ayton hasn't struggled or that he should be near the top, but the numbers are dependent on those things that are obviously huge factors for the Suns.

[Blonde]

Nash is my favorite player of all time. It would be huge for me if he was involved with the franchise again, in any capacity. Maybe he was just waiting for Sarver to leave.

[WeekapaugGroove]

He probably just doesn't have a coach who knows how to use him or a PG that lets him excel

Sent from my SM-G986U using RealGM mobile app

Ayton's shots decreased by five going from Rubio to CP3. I can't understand why people around here act like it's all on Ayton and his development has nothing to do with how he's been used. It's both.

And we went from a non-playoff team to the Finals.

Team success over individual success.

I think for now the team is much better with Ayton on an smaller role and that was verified with his meh games recently as a primary option on offense.

So I actually think this is kind of the core of the 'Ayton issue'. He helps the team the most when he's hustling and doing a lot of not so fun dirty work like setting screens, boxing out, locking in and communicating on D. I'm not sure he actually likes doing this kind of stuff all that much. It's not glamorous work and some of it doesn't show up in a box score.

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[lilfishi22]

Offenses are run through creators, as it should be. Siakam and FVV are Toronto's primary creators. PG/Kawhi are creators. Lebron/AD are creators. Randle/Brunson are creators. DA is not. I've never been against giving DA more shots but I've seen enough of DA's creation ability to know running an offense through him is not going to pay dividends.