Suns Offseason Thread V: I Am My Brother's Kieffer

[NavLDO]

A for effort + C for results = a 2.0 GPA



PS.... anyone notice the tats don't match up...from photo to photo

Oh no, my brother, this isn't the day and age we grew up in--no, no--not in today's world--in THIS day-and-age with such inventions like, the Attendance Award, and Participation Medal, your equation doesn't take that into account--that's a solid 3.0!!

I get what you mean, I do, but it's not that simple. There are no results without effort, and McD's done pretty well, considering the sh*t sandwich he was given. I mean, you try to turnaround a 25-57 team. He's brought in Bledsoe, Knight, Len, Warren, and Chandler during that time, and the only significant loss that he can be attributed to in any way, is Dragic--the Morri brought all this on themselves. They had their next 5 years locked up in Phoenix, then go and beat up a dude, but I digress. He experimented on a couple of assets, they didn't turn out, he got rid of them. He's been a pretty active dude, and while I don't expect everyone to be all lovey-dovey and Kumbaya, I do expect that most fans would be patient and give him the full 3 years to produce a playoff-level squad. And for all those who think we don't have one, are probably the same ones two years ago that thought we were going to end up closer to 34-48, then 48-34. We have yet to see:

- Len with the extended range he's worked on during the off-season
- A true Stretch 4 (Mirza, not scrub-boy Tolliver)
- A true force in the middle like Chandler
- Knight after an off-season to gel with Bledsoe
- A team without the "Technical Brothers"
- Warren, with a year of experience under his belt
- Weems--a dude brimming with passion and hustle, and dare I say, talent-potential

Anyway, this is a far cry from the team we finished with. And who knows, we might be terri-bad? Maybe Chandler or Len get injured (which contrary to what Sundeuce believes, actually does impact a teams ability to perform at its best); maybe what we saw of Knight last year is more representative of what we'll actually get from him; maybe we don't get a suitable, immediate-use return from Kieff (meaning, maybe it's draft picks); maybe Warren never develops past what he provided last year--who knows, right?

But I'm of the mindset that we have a 50ish win team, and while that may not be good enough for some, it would be good enough for me, because I know McD is still building, and we have young guys that are still developing (Len, Goodwin, Warren, Booker, and Bogdan).

So, it's frustrating for me to read posts from...well, we all know to whom I'm referring, that are all 'doom-and-gloom', and that our FO are all idiots or stupid or unable to run a team, or whatever. They've had the team for TWO seasons--that's it, and while not every move McD has made has been, or can be seen as, 'positive' for the Suns, I argue that we have more of those than ones where we come out on the losing end.

[Qwigglez]

Didn't markieff take less money so he could stay with his brother or something?

Basically Marcus Morris was worth about $10 hourly and Kieff was worth about 12mil a year. Kieff didn't want his brother to look like such a scrub so he said he could dip into Kieff's earnings. 13mil for both of them was a pretty good deal but Kieff shafted himself.

[Fo-Real]

Can't see Huston being his destination, would be very tough getting salaries to match up unless they want to give up Ariza, and I don't see that. As far as Toronto, not a real Patterson fan, he is obviously a downgrade and at best a warm body. Don't think he is better than Mirza so they would have to add more or other players completely. Don't see much else on that roster that makes since for both sides. I have actually always liked James Johnson, but dude is like 32 and on the last year of a deal for very little, no leverage over the asset traded to us going ahead is no bueno, not to mention there would be a question of if he can be a full time pf. So a trade with either of those two teams needs to be a 3 way with someone else.

James johnson is 28 lol

Oh..... Then yes to a package that includes JJ!

[Saberestar]

Didn't markieff take less money so he could stay with his brother or something?

What? This is the first time that we hear about it.....

[saintEscaton]

I don't want anybody the Raps would be willing to offer. Raps fans would rather have Weems back than put with up Ross who is a underachieving scrub living off one career game wherehwe went off for 50 points. Plus he's a dumbass who knocked up a stripper. Johnson is a tweener with limited range and a decent face up game but is really just a fringe role player on another middling team like ours. According to Casey he was a "match up sub" tasked to defend bigger SFs but he lacks the lateral agility to stay with wings although he is strong enough to hold his own against PFs and can patrol the perimeter on switches and contain penetration as an on the ball defender. But he can be too eager and overcompensate on helpside D and has a tendency to get burnt whenever he cheats over. . Patterson still hasn't cemented his status as the starting PF even though it is was his job to lose after Amir Johnson's departure. Scola has a chance to beat him out and send him to the bench. Even though Patterson was given starter minutes at 26 MPG his production was quite underwhelming as he barely managed to average double digits scoring and is a poor rebounder. Sure his EFG%,TS% all look greatly efficient and he shot near 40% from downtown but that was at a low clip (less than 2 attempts per game) on limited volume. He' would just be an upgrade over Leuer, another rotational spot up Stretch 4 who rarely takes a jumper off the dribble but can operate out the pick n' pop with some spatial awareness to occasionally facilitate out of the post. But I guess this is the most realistic deal you would expect to be on the table.

We're going to get lowballed nevertheless. Don't expect any thing more than a poo poo platter package. Its just a matter of how long we're willing to wait it out and try to salvage Queef's value before we decide to inevitably cut our losses and dump his deadweight before he sabotages this team.

[suns91fan]

I don't want anybody the Raps would be willing to offer. Raps fans would rather have Weems back than put with up Ross who isa underachieving scrub living off one career game where we went off for 50 points. Plus he's a dumbass who knocked up a stripper. B Johnson is a tweener with limited range and a decent face up game and is a fringe rotation player on another middling team like ours. According to Casey he was a "match up sub" tasked to defend bigger SFs but he lacks the lateral agility to stay with wings although he is strong enough to hold his own against PFs and can patrol the perimeter on switches and contain penetration as an on the ball defender. Although he can be too eager and overcompensate on helpside D and has a tendency to get burnt whenever he cheats over. . Patterson still hasn't cemented his status as the starting PF even though it is was his job to lose after Amir Johnson's departure. Scola has a chance to beat him out and send him to the bench. Even though Patterson was given starter minutes at 26 MPG his production was quite underwhelming as he barely managed to average double digits scoring and is a poor rebounder. Sure his EFG%,TS% all look greatly efficient and he shotnear 40% from downtown but that wass at a low clip (less than 2 attempts per game) on limited volume. He' would just be an upgrade over Leuer, another spot up Stretch 4 who rarely takes a jumper off the dribble but can operate out the pick n' pop with some spatial awareness to occasionally facilitate out of the post. But I guess this is the most realistic deal you would expect to be on the table.

We're going to get lowballed nevertheless. Don't expect any thing more than a poo poo platter package. Its just a matter of how long we're willing to wait it out and try to salvage Queef's value before we decide to inevitably cut our losses and dump his deadweight before he sabotages this team.

I still fail to realize how can Kieff sabotage this team. Not only his brother is no longer here (greatly diminishing the effect they had on the locker room past year), but Suns now have Chandler and Bledsoe (who, it seems, has finally embraced that leadership role). Both of those guys are above Kieff in terms of locker-room hierarchy. His hands are simply tied. And even if he thinks about trying something, don't you think it would be disrespectful toward his teammates (his quarrel is with the FO, not with them)? Such move would definitely ruin his reputation around the league, and probably his career as well. I bet after two or three months of zero playing time with the Suns, he would quickly change his FOE to COE (Career over Everything).

[NavLDO]

I don't want anybody the Raps would be willing to offer. Raps fans would rather have Weems back than put with up Ross who isa underachieving scrub living off one career game where we went off for 50 points. Plus he's a dumbass who knocked up a stripper. B Johnson is a tweener with limited range and a decent face up game and is a fringe rotation player on another middling team like ours. According to Casey he was a "match up sub" tasked to defend bigger SFs but he lacks the lateral agility to stay with wings although he is strong enough to hold his own against PFs and can patrol the perimeter on switches and contain penetration as an on the ball defender. Although he can be too eager and overcompensate on helpside D and has a tendency to get burnt whenever he cheats over. . Patterson still hasn't cemented his status as the starting PF even though it is was his job to lose after Amir Johnson's departure. Scola has a chance to beat him out and send him to the bench. Even though Patterson was given starter minutes at 26 MPG his production was quite underwhelming as he barely managed to average double digits scoring and is a poor rebounder. Sure his EFG%,TS% all look greatly efficient and he shotnear 40% from downtown but that wass at a low clip (less than 2 attempts per game) on limited volume. He' would just be an upgrade over Leuer, another spot up Stretch 4 who rarely takes a jumper off the dribble but can operate out the pick n' pop with some spatial awareness to occasionally facilitate out of the post. But I guess this is the most realistic deal you would expect to be on the table.

We're going to get lowballed nevertheless. Don't expect any thing more than a poo poo platter package. Its just a matter of how long we're willing to wait it out and try to salvage Queef's value before we decide to inevitably cut our losses and dump his deadweight before he sabotages this team.

What I like about Patterson, though, is his age, 3Pt%, Wingspan, and Reach. Although the same height/weight/age as Kieff, he has a 2+" advantage in Wingspan, and 1/2" advantage in Reach.

Patterson has a 37% career 3PT%, as compared to Kieff's 33%--and that's with similar attempts throughout their careers. Patterson also has career 52% EFg%, as opposed to Kieff's 48%. They have similar per36 TRBs--7.7 to 7.4, Steals, Assists, and blocks. Kieff has a slight advantage in those, but not enough to consider a huge gap. Where Kieff does have an advantage is Pts--16.2 to 12.7, but he also has a 4.0 to 2.9 PF rate to go with it.

Anyway, Stats don't tell the whole story, but I'm just saying that it wouldn't be a 'poor' trade if we snagged Patterson for Kieff, IMO.

[Damkac]

I don't want anybody the Raps would be willing to offer. Raps fans would rather have Weems back than put with up Ross who isa underachieving scrub living off one career game where we went off for 50 points. Plus he's a dumbass who knocked up a stripper. B Johnson is a tweener with limited range and a decent face up game and is a fringe rotation player on another middling team like ours. According to Casey he was a "match up sub" tasked to defend bigger SFs but he lacks the lateral agility to stay with wings although he is strong enough to hold his own against PFs and can patrol the perimeter on switches and contain penetration as an on the ball defender. Although he can be too eager and overcompensate on helpside D and has a tendency to get burnt whenever he cheats over. . Patterson still hasn't cemented his status as the starting PF even though it is was his job to lose after Amir Johnson's departure. Scola has a chance to beat him out and send him to the bench. Even though Patterson was given starter minutes at 26 MPG his production was quite underwhelming as he barely managed to average double digits scoring and is a poor rebounder. Sure his EFG%,TS% all look greatly efficient and he shotnear 40% from downtown but that wass at a low clip (less than 2 attempts per game) on limited volume. He' would just be an upgrade over Leuer, another spot up Stretch 4 who rarely takes a jumper off the dribble but can operate out the pick n' pop with some spatial awareness to occasionally facilitate out of the post. But I guess this is the most realistic deal you would expect to be on the table.

We're going to get lowballed nevertheless. Don't expect any thing more than a poo poo platter package. Its just a matter of how long we're willing to wait it out and try to salvage Queef's value before we decide to inevitably cut our losses and dump his deadweight before he sabotages this team.

I still fail to realize how can Kieff sabotage this team. Not only his brother is no longer here (greatly diminishing the effect they had on the locker room past year), but Suns now have Chandler and Bledsoe (who, it seems, has finally embraced that leadership role). Both of those guys are above Kieff in terms of locker-room hierarchy. His hands are simply tied. And even if he thinks about trying something, don't you think it would be disrespectful toward his teammates (his quarrel is with the FO, not with them)? Such move would definitely ruin his reputation around the league, and probably his career as well. I bet after two or three months of zero playing time with the Suns, he would quickly change his FOE to COE (Career over Everything).

What you said is logical but I'm not sure if we can expect logical moves by Markieff.

[suns91fan]

I don't want anybody the Raps would be willing to offer. Raps fans would rather have Weems back than put with up Ross who isa underachieving scrub living off one career game where we went off for 50 points. Plus he's a dumbass who knocked up a stripper. B Johnson is a tweener with limited range and a decent face up game and is a fringe rotation player on another middling team like ours. According to Casey he was a "match up sub" tasked to defend bigger SFs but he lacks the lateral agility to stay with wings although he is strong enough to hold his own against PFs and can patrol the perimeter on switches and contain penetration as an on the ball defender. Although he can be too eager and overcompensate on helpside D and has a tendency to get burnt whenever he cheats over. . Patterson still hasn't cemented his status as the starting PF even though it is was his job to lose after Amir Johnson's departure. Scola has a chance to beat him out and send him to the bench. Even though Patterson was given starter minutes at 26 MPG his production was quite underwhelming as he barely managed to average double digits scoring and is a poor rebounder. Sure his EFG%,TS% all look greatly efficient and he shotnear 40% from downtown but that wass at a low clip (less than 2 attempts per game) on limited volume. He' would just be an upgrade over Leuer, another spot up Stretch 4 who rarely takes a jumper off the dribble but can operate out the pick n' pop with some spatial awareness to occasionally facilitate out of the post. But I guess this is the most realistic deal you would expect to be on the table.

We're going to get lowballed nevertheless. Don't expect any thing more than a poo poo platter package. Its just a matter of how long we're willing to wait it out and try to salvage Queef's value before we decide to inevitably cut our losses and dump his deadweight before he sabotages this team.

I still fail to realize how can Kieff sabotage this team. Not only his brother is no longer here (greatly diminishing the effect they had on the locker room past year), but Suns now have Chandler and Bledsoe (who, it seems, has finally embraced that leadership role). Both of those guys are above Kieff in terms of locker-room hierarchy. His hands are simply tied. And even if he thinks about trying something, don't you think it would be disrespectful toward his teammates (his quarrel is with the FO, not with them)? Such move would definitely ruin his reputation around the league, and probably his career as well. I bet after two or three months of zero playing time with the Suns, he would quickly change his FOE to COE (Career over Everything).

What you said is logical but I'm not sure if we can expect logical moves by Markieff.

Ok, worst case scenario, both sides refuse to do what the other side want. Suns refuse to trade him, and Kieff still refuses to make peace with the FO. Who do you think will crack first and ask for forgiveness? Kieff only has one career, while the Suns organization is here since '68, and will continue to exist after this whole incident. Who will have more regrets in let's say 10-15 years? Suns will barely remember the incident, and i am not so sure about Kieff.

It's that simple. Suns must not let other teams to low-ball them. Reading some of the posts here, i start to believe some people would like returning package to be so bad, just so they can continue with bashing McD, Hornacek or whoever.

[jcsunsfan]

I have one question? What possessed Kieff to put two teams on a short list and make Toronto--of all teams--one of them. Has anyone ever put Toronto on their short list?

I assume his agent is trying to work out trades and Houston and Toronto are the only two willing partners.

[SunsFanSSOL]

I have one question? What possessed Kieff to put two teams on a short list and make Toronto--of all teams--one of them. Has anyone ever put Toronto on their short list?

I assume his agent is trying to work out trades and Houston and Toronto are the only two willing partners.

It says right in the article he wants to play with Kyle Lowry (who is from Philly), or James Harden (who he's friends with).

[RunDogGun]

Who else says Kyle Lowry in a Martin Lawrence voice?

As for Keef, if he is dumb enough to have a press conference over this, let him sit on the bench or send him home with fines for conduct detrimental to the team this year. I'm growing tired of the whole thing, with drama over effort. Keef built this mountain of sh*t with his brother.

Funny part is Keef could have kept his brother from being a salary dump if he took a much larger portion of the joint contract. They use a joint account, so it's all about taxes really.

[Damkac]

Most interesting, why Detroid isn't on his list? Maybe he knows that Pistons don't want to have both twins?

[Qwigglez]

If Kieff and Harden are boys then hopefully Harden pushes Houston's front office for a trade.

[blacksun]

Most interesting, why Detroid isn't on his list? Maybe he knows that Pistons don't want to have both twins?

IMO he's not including Detroit so people think that he doesn't need to be with his brother all the time but privately he's dreaming of it/

[blacksun]

Who else says Kyle Lowry in a Martin Lawrence voice?

All the time!

[Sunsdeuce]

This markieff saga is just as bad as the Brady saga.

[jcsunsfan]

Most interesting, why Detroid isn't on his list? Maybe he knows that Pistons don't want to have both twins?

I think, in his heart of hearts he knows its best for them to split up.

[lilfishi22]

Didn't markieff take less money so he could stay with his brother or something?

What? This is the first time that we hear about it.....

Seems like its a common thing being thrown around with little to no factual basis. Kieff is on a great deal whereas Mook was overpaid so it evens out. I don't think they were underpaid.

[Safety Pickle]

I have one question? What possessed Kieff to put two teams on a short list and make Toronto--of all teams--one of them. Has anyone ever put Toronto on their short list?

I assume his agent is trying to work out trades and Houston and Toronto are the only two willing partners.

It says right in the article he wants to play with Kyle Lowry (who is from Philly), or James Harden (who he's friends with).

Man that hat is a trend that needs to die