Trade Deadline Countdown....December 2015

[Revived]

The Phoenix Suns have suspended Markieff Morris for two games for throwing a towel at Jeff Hornacek.

The incident occurred during Wednesday's loss to the Denver Nuggets.

Morris said he didn't intend to hit Hornacek and was unaware it had connected.

Morris has sought a trade from the Suns since they traded his brother, Marcus Morris, to the Detroit Pistons.

Morris initially had trade value but waiting has cost the Suns any leverage they once had.

http://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/240240/Markieff-Morris-Suspended-Two-Games-For-Throwing-Towel-At-Hornacek

[AtheJ415]

It's been awhile since I posted.

I'm going to point out the obvious. Bledsoe and Tucker absolutely need to go. Tucker, for obviously reasons (just a bad player/low BBIQ/stunting the growth of this team).

Bledsoe is not a leader nor is a starter in this league. Yeah he is putting up a lot of points but his low efficieny and inability to run an offense continues to plague this team. Ryan Mcd overpaid for him (he Still is NOT worth 70 million!!!!! Even with the increased cap). Bottom line is Bledsoe is a bench player but a starter for the Suns. This team is not getting better until Bledsoe is gone.

Chandler suckered Ryan Mcd into paying him and chandler is another player stunting the growth of other players and he is having zero impact of the court.

Time to be honest, Ryan Mcd is a complete failure. Other than a successful year one, he is has been one of the worst GMs in the league since then. The whole Markieff mess is 100% Ryan's fault. His whole "trying to polish a turd" is/was his stupid idea. You flush that crap not keep it. Markieff should have been gone months/weeks before the season started.

I've been watching this team for a very long time (three + decades) and I can't remember a Suns team less appealing and less talented. I'll be honest, when the Suns are on if I'm bored, I will watch, other than that, I couldn't care less. THIS Suns team/organization is not the Suns I grew up with. I really don't acknowledge this as the Suns anymore. They are officially the least cared about team in AZ. Sad place Sarver has put this organization at.

In the 90s star players were literally begging and taking pay cuts to come to play for the Suns. Now, star players don't want to be within 10 feet of this organization.

I've come to the realization that me getting all stressed out over the Suns is no longer worth it and wanting them to get better just isn't going to happen as long as Sarver is the owner. Tough pill to digest but this team is the least relevant team in the state of Arizona (including college teams).

I want to have that joy I had when I was younger that I had watching the team. I use to beg my parents to pay the 19.99 to watch them when they use to charge (pay per view) to watch during the regular season (90s).

If my opinion counted for anything, I would blow this team up...trade everyone not named Len, Booker, or Warren. completely tank. The 13th pick in the draft that the Suns get on a yearly basis has led this team to jack squat.

Feel free to destroy my post but I sorry that's how I feel.

Bledsoe isn't a starter? Seriously? I'd love to know the 150 players in this league better than him, or at least the 60 guards. He's a legitimate borderline all-star, who is admittedly underperforming when it comes to defense and turnovers. His scoring efficiency is not the problem at all.

A 21.17 PER, while scoring 21 ppg on 45.3% fg, 37.5% 3 point, and 80% ft is not only the definition of efficient, it is damn near elite. You can say he forces shots, and you can say he needs to improve defensively, but you damn well can't say he's scoring inefficiently.

I think we can all agree that scoring is not EB's issue. However how would those efficiency ratings look, if you took into consideration in 3 to 4 turnovers a game he has in the paint while attempting to score but not getting a shot off? In my opinion those possession should be added into the efficiency stat because he is attempting to score which eliminates anybody else on the team from being able to take a shot on that possession.

In the end though, EB's inability to see the court, and to distribute the ball is the real issue. He just does not have that skill.




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EB's efficiency is still really good even with the turnovers. PG's, particularly those with high usage rates and fast pace offenses, turn the ball over.

[AtheJ415]

Why in the world does Hornacek still have a job this morning?

It obvious to everyone that he has lost this team.

I do not know if I have ever seen a situation where the coach needs to go more than this one.

It is a shame because I think we all like Hornacek but he absolutely needs to go.

I couldn't fire him after a player threw a towel in his face. PR disaster waiting to happen. It'll probably be a few more weeks. I think at this point they give him a chance after trading some people.

What a terrible decision that would be. Even the best player of the team Bledsoe has no interest in trying or putting forth any effort for Hornacek and Hornacek's blasting Bledsoe and Knight in post game pressers.

If you think it's gonna get any better without major coaching changes and roster changes, your kidding yourselves.

Btw what the Suns are in right now is already a PR disaster. Everyone from ESPN to NBA tv were clowning the Suns after last night's game.

If you've ever read anything I've ever posted, you'd understand that I've not said there shouldn't be changes or that Hornacek should stay. All I said was you shouldn't fire a coach right after a player does something like that. It's a PR nightmare that may impact your ability to find a new coach. Besides, I don't think an interim coach becomes our permanent guy, so who really cares if we
keep Hornacek until guys are traded? Unless you're delusional enough to still believe we're going to the playoffs, there's no rush to make that move.

[AtheJ415]

Bledsoe isn't a starter? Seriously? I'd love to know the 150 players in this league better than him, or at least the 60 guards. He's a legitimate borderline all-star, who is admittedly underperforming when it comes to defense and turnovers. His scoring efficiency is not the problem at all.

A 21.17 PER, while scoring 21 ppg on 45.3% fg, 37.5% 3 point, and 80% ft is not only the definition of efficient, it is damn near elite. You can say he forces shots, and you can say he needs to improve defensively, but you damn well can't say he's scoring inefficiently.

I think we can all agree that scoring is not EB's issue. However how would those efficiency ratings look, if you took into consideration in 3 to 4 turnovers a game he has in the paint while attempting to score but not getting a shot off? In my opinion those possession should be added into the efficiency stat because he is attempting to score which eliminates anybody else on the team from being able to take a shot on that possession.

In the end though, EB's inability to see the court, and to distribute the ball is the real issue. He just does not have that skill.




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Exactly, people can quote stats all day long but he is not an effective "playmaker." He isn't good enough to be a full time PG and same is said about him playing shooting guard. The guard position is the worst position to be a Tweener. Which is exactly what Bledsoe is. "Scoring" is the least important part of being a PG! Running an offense and making everyone around you better IS!

Let's face it, Bledsoe is what he is. A midrange, to the basket player. That's about it on offense. This is not a recipe for success. Which is why you want a player like that coming off the bench.

Name the people who are good enough to be full-time PGs. I'm sorry, but your statements regarding Bledsoe, that he's not a starting caliber player in this league, are some of the craziest stuff I've ever read. If he's not a starting caliber guard in this league, then who the hell is?

[letsgosuns]

Sunsdeuce called it right about Bledsoe a long time ago. He came to the conclusion very quickly that Bledsoe is not the kind of player you can win with. He was right. I gave Bledsoe a chance but I 100% agree with Sunsdeuce's critique of Bledsoe now. It is sad really. He puts up empty stats that do not equate to wins.

One more thing. Markieff's best and truly only good game of the season was against the Spurs. He had 28 points, 8 rebounds, and 4 assists. Guess who did not play that game? Bingo. Bledsoe. His only missed game of the season so far.

You know what something like that says to me. Bledsoe does not make anyone around him better. Amare was a really good player without Nash but with Nash, he became great. So did a lot of players that played with Nash. How many contracts did players sign just because of their inflated stats playing with Nash. What the hell has Bledsoe ever done for the players around him? Nothing. I have never seen a player come to this team and get better playing with Bledsoe.

[AtheJ415]

I dont see why people are so upset. McD is doing his due diligence in securing us the best possible return for Morris. Isnt that his job? Isnt that what everyone really wants in the end. I can see it now, if he traded Morris for some crap offer and next season Morris starts balling like we were expecting him to do here, those same people that were complaining about McD not trading him asap would be complaining that all we got for him was crap and we could have done much better. It happens all the time with damn near every trade that any of our GMs make. Some people just arnt satisfied with anything.

I mean for the love of god, people are still complaining about the Lakers draft pick. The pick that wont be going anywhere this year, as the Lakers will have a top 5 pick. Will they still suck next season? Who the hell knows, but what i do know is that they will have a ton of cash to spend in FA, and we all know (and complain) that they tend to get the FA's that they want very easily. Its the lure of the bright lights in LA. Its the lure of playing for the Laker Legacy. No matter what they will always be a big draw for the leagues top talent.

We got Knight for that pick, and he has been a borderline all-star this season. We have his signed to a great contract. He has value around the league and i can think of a handful of teams that could use and would love to have him as their starting PG.

My point is, let McD do what he is here to do. Everything would have been fine, but once again Keiff has found a way to **** us up. Blame Morris for not doing what he is supposed to do instead of blaming McD for doing what he is supposed to do.

This. And I see it now too with many wanting IT gone but occasionally complaining about not getting enough for him. It's just not that easy to trade Kieff right now. It wasn't that easy this offseason. But if at the end of the day waiting costs us Archie, is that really a big deal? Half this board considers Archie a bum and wants him gone. So which is it? We've seen rumors of deals, but it's certainly possible that other teams have wanted picks included. Would you really want us throwing in picks to dump $8 mill in salary? Point being, nobody knows what the real offers were, and we may be able to void Kieff's deal anyways, which I'm sure McDonough knows, so a straight dump probably has little value to him.

I agree with the boston poster somebody put on here--go back and look at the guys taken in the 4-8 spots over the past decade or so. There is absolutely 0 guarantee that they get someone as good as Knight. It's fine to believe you'd rather have the pick, but let's not talk about the value as if we gave up Ben Simmons when the pick is protected and we have no idea where it will fall by the time it gets to us. LA could sign Durant and then we'd have traded, at best, a dreaded 13th-14th pick.

Also, go back and look at this roster he inherited. Babby and Blanks really did a number on our future. Somebody mentioned Blanks got us the Laker pick, but iirc it was actually Sarver as blanks didn't want him traded to a division rival, and would rather Nash walk for nothing. I also remember distinctly a majority of fans complaining about that trade at the time. Once the Lakers imploded and managed to let Kobe's personality lose Dwight for nothing, their supposed future building block, the pick's value went up and suddenly everyone thinks the picks are a near guaranteed star, which we gave up for the low IQ, hopeless 24 yea old 20 PPG scorer who nearly made an all star team. Could we just look at these actual events and player performance with some level-headed rationality for once? I feel like this board at times becomes a series of insane hot takes with no real backing and where stats and actual production are ignored for hot take opinions. It happens with every board, but we ought to really try to get some perspective here.

And I'll also add McD can always attempt to void the contract the second Kieff's felony gets pleaded to/decided. Markieff has shown progressively awful behavior, and has been disciplined in a progressively strict manner. There is precedence for it, although it would be helpful in that scenario if Kieff was convicted of the felony charge.

[AtheJ415]

I dont see why people are so upset. McD is doing his due diligence in securing us the best possible return for Morris. Isnt that his job? Isnt that what everyone really wants in the end. I can see it now, if he traded Morris for some crap offer and next season Morris starts balling like we were expecting him to do here, those same people that were complaining about McD not trading him asap would be complaining that all we got for him was crap and we could have done much better. It happens all the time with damn near every trade that any of our GMs make. Some people just arnt satisfied with anything.

I mean for the love of god, people are still complaining about the Lakers draft pick. The pick that wont be going anywhere this year, as the Lakers will have a top 5 pick. Will they still suck next season? Who the hell knows, but what i do know is that they will have a ton of cash to spend in FA, and we all know (and complain) that they tend to get the FA's that they want very easily. Its the lure of the bright lights in LA. Its the lure of playing for the Laker Legacy. No matter what they will always be a big draw for the leagues top talent.

We got Knight for that pick, and he has been a borderline all-star this season. We have his signed to a great contract. He has value around the league and i can think of a handful of teams that could use and would love to have him as their starting PG.

My point is, let McD do what he is here to do. Everything would have been fine, but once again Keiff has found a way to f**k us up. Blame Morris for not doing what he is supposed to do instead of blaming McD for doing what he is supposed to do.

The Lakers could have a top 5 pick but if it's #4 or #5 then the 76ers will still take the pick since it's only top 3 protected.

I'm also one of those who don't think the Lakers will sign many or any superstar players this summer. I mean the only star FA that has signed with the Lakers in the last 20 years is Shaq. I think superstar players these days care more about where there is a winning situation as well as the money.

Kobe has been a huge and noted impediment to their winning and FA conquests for years. Players didn't want to play with him, and his salary prevented them from adding additional pieces. It's very feasible for me to see a star looking at LAL's as his team now that Kobe is gone, with no sharing of LAL's glory, and with Randle, Russell, Clarkson to help around them as young improving guys.

Even if Philly gets it. Plenty of top 3 picks have been worse than Knight. People on here will refuse to believe that because they want to blame our guards for everything in this scenario, but it's true. Knight is a top 2 SG 24 and under statistically. That is not meaningless. His D needs to improve to become a real star, but again, he's 24 years old. Also, if there's anything to take from the last 2 years it's that nobody has control of this team, and Knight wasn't really here last year. We couldn't prevent our team last season from technicalling itself out of contention for god's sake.

[AtheJ415]

We really need to get TJ McConnell from Philly. He seems to be getting pushed out of the rotation. His contract is particularly amazing. I'd even do Kieff for TJ.

[thamadkant]

I agree that Bledsoe doesnt make his team mates better like other pass first stars.


But some Suns fans here are treating him like he murdered a family of puppies and ate their carcasses.


He is a tremendous player that needs another player next to that makes the rest better.


Someone like Hayward, who can be a play maker point forward when he wants to.


Bledsoe can still beat his man one on one and penetrate the defense when the defense isnt focused on him. Hence Ive said many times along others that he isnt a first option.


But some fans here need to realize Bledsoe is not a terrible player... Far from it.

[Kerrsed]

Even if Philly gets it. Plenty of top 3 picks have been worse than Knight. People on here will refuse to believe that because they want to blame our guards for everything in this scenario, but it's true. Knight is a top 2 SG 24 and under statistically. That is not meaningless. His D needs to improve to become a real star, but again, he's 24 years old. Also, if there's anything to take from the last 2 years it's that nobody has control of this team, and Knight wasn't really here last year. We couldn't prevent our team last season from technicalling itself out of contention for god's sake.

If only we had a coach that preaches defense......

Look, i know a lot of people dont want Thibs due to them believing that "He wont play our youngsters", but look at our team, with the exception of Chandler and Tucker, all we have is youngsters. Its not like in Chicago where he couldnt give many minutes to rookies because they were stuck behind already established players (both being a better fit and talent wise).

[kennydorglas]

If only we had a coach that preaches defense......

Look, i know a lot of people dont want Thibs due to them believing that "He wont play our youngsters", but look at our team, with the exception of Chandler and Tucker, all we have is youngsters. Its not like in Chicago where he couldnt give many minutes to rookies because they were stuck behind already established players (both being a better fit and talent wise).

Thibs would be amazing for us.

[AtheJ415]

Even if Philly gets it. Plenty of top 3 picks have been worse than Knight. People on here will refuse to believe that because they want to blame our guards for everything in this scenario, but it's true. Knight is a top 2 SG 24 and under statistically. That is not meaningless. His D needs to improve to become a real star, but again, he's 24 years old. Also, if there's anything to take from the last 2 years it's that nobody has control of this team, and Knight wasn't really here last year. We couldn't prevent our team last season from technicalling itself out of contention for god's sake.

If only we had a coach that preaches defense......

Look, i know a lot of people dont want Thibs due to them believing that "He wont play our youngsters", but look at our team, with the exception of Chandler and Tucker, all we have is youngsters. Its not like in Chicago where he couldnt give many minutes to rookies because they were stuck behind already established players (both being a better fit and talent wise).

Yeah. I do have some concerns about Thibs, but over his tendency to give guys huge minutes. I'd prefer not wear down the youngsters, but I agree he would play our youngsters here. Thibs wants to win, and our young guys are our best players. That's been part of the frustration for me this year--seeing Kieff, Tucker, and even Chandler to an extent get tons of minutes when their backups were outperforming them (Warren, Booker, Len). With the raw defensive talent we have and the performance of our players on defense in the past, it's inexcusable that we're this bad on defense. Bledsoe and Chandler are not suddenly horrible defenders. I think Thibs would fix that and improve Warren and Booker and Len's defense no question.

[TeamTragic]

So its come down to this? Tim Wroten, Kendall Marshall and Jared Dudley as the saviors of this sorry excuse of a team?

I was just about to add that we moved from Dudley to Wroten and now Marshall. Let me just sum up feelings with emoticons:

[thamadkant]

Thibs is a good coach but Sarver will not pay a coach huge contracts when the team isnt even good enough for the playoffs... I feel that Sarver and McD would wait until the Suns are a playoff contender before spending huge on a coach....

Sarver is not Ranadive... And Kings have a super star already so George Karl was a calculated risk... And ironically Karl doesnt seem to want Cousins long term. But hey... Kings might be contending for the playoffs this season.

[thamadkant]

Although... I do feel that Thibs would develop Len and Goodwin well... As both have tremendous potential as defenders... They have the body, athleticism and about the right age to be taught good defensive knowledge.

[TeamTragic]

Although... I do feel that Thibs would develop Len and Goodwin well... As both have tremendous potential as defenders... They have the body, athleticism and about the right age to be taught good defensive knowledge.

There is little doubt in my mind that Thibs would turn this franchise around. He would focus on defense and build an offense without jacking up shots for no reason. He should be our only target in the off-season.

[Revived]

Even if Philly gets it. Plenty of top 3 picks have been worse than Knight. People on here will refuse to believe that because they want to blame our guards for everything in this scenario, but it's true. Knight is a top 2 SG 24 and under statistically. That is not meaningless. His D needs to improve to become a real star, but again, he's 24 years old. Also, if there's anything to take from the last 2 years it's that nobody has control of this team, and Knight wasn't really here last year. We couldn't prevent our team last season from technicalling itself out of contention for god's sake.

If only we had a coach that preaches defense......

Look, i know a lot of people dont want Thibs due to them believing that "He wont play our youngsters", but look at our team, with the exception of Chandler and Tucker, all we have is youngsters. Its not like in Chicago where he couldnt give many minutes to rookies because they were stuck behind already established players (both being a better fit and talent wise).

Getting Thibs would be the best Christmas present the Suns can give their fans but I doubt it happens.

[Puff]

Not a fan of Thibs. Anyone off the Spurs staff could work, Messina could be a good catch. Don't really know much about him but most of the guys from Pops staff that have got head coaching jobs are doing pretty well.

If we do whack Hornacek I am expect that we will at least put the interim tag on Longabardi to finish the season. I believe he was with McDonough in Boston.

I like most am intrigued by the prospect of Luke Walton, has the right pedigree.

[Saberestar]

As far as trading Morris, who had requested a trade in the summer, McDonough said the Suns would be “aggressive” in looking at any potential trade because the staff is unhappy with the team’s 12-19 record.

After Thursday’s practice, Hornacek said he hadn’t checked his phone for a Morris apology but “I wouldn’t count on it.”

http://www.azcentral.com/story/sports/nba/suns/2015/12/24/phoenix-suns-suspend-markieff-morris-two-games/77885790/

[thamadkant]

Not a fan of Thibs. Anyone off the Spurs staff could work, Messina could be a good catch. Don't really know much about him but most of the guys from Pops staff that have got head coaching jobs are doing pretty well.

If we do whack Hornacek I am expect that we will at least put the interim tag on Longabardi to finish the season. I believe he was with McDonough in Boston.

I like most am intrigued by the prospect of Luke Walton, has the right pedigree.

Messina is going to take over Popovic in a couple of years. He is perfectly comfortable until then. Wouldnt leave for money.... Spurs will pay him anyways. With the culture over there? He will be a spurs coach for a long long time