bwgood77 wrote:NavLDO wrote: Holding players to different sets of standards just confounds me. The ONLY reason I could MAYBE see why he does this is because he's already felt he's lost Kieff, Knight, Tucker, etc.--'old dogs, new tricks' mentality, but feels Booker, TJ, Len, and Goodwin can still benefit from a 'firm hand'.
I'm actually on the fence with Horny, and would be ok with either decision. He is in an unenviable position, that's for sure. He has almost nothing to work with, but is some of that his doing? IDK. I do know that I don't want to try to salvage this season, as bad as that may sound. What I mean is, I'd like to get as many minutes for Goodwin, Booker, TJ, and Len--concentrate on their development and see what they are by season's end, so we know best what direction to go in the draft/FA; concentrate our efforts on building a better team next season, not try to 'band-aid' this season.
And honestly, I wouldn't mind giving Horny another chance next season with a decent roster. But if he is fired, I wouldn't cry about it either, because while he's not solely to blame, he does share a good portion of it.
NavLDO wrote:But yes, this roster is not great, and McD made some poor choices (Chandler, Knight), but that is MMQBing at its best. Chandler was questionable, but was made to lure LMA. Knight was looked upon favorably when we acquired him, by most, but now we are stuck with two overpaid players, and a broken Bledsoe. But also, Frank, you have to recognize that what were expected to be two core players for this team got greedy/big-headed (Dragic) or stupid (Kieff), and both McD and Horny have had to deal with that, along with another role player (Marcus) being stupid as well.
But all that said, yes, Horny and McD DO share blame in this, and neither are blameless, but both have had to deal with situations beyond their control. Anyone that blames one has to blame the other as well, which is why I am ok if Horny stays and starts next season, because honestly, I'd still like to give McD another chance in the draft and FA and get the 3rd 'jackwad' off this team, and see if he can unload Chandler and/or Knight in the process. Because if there is one thing I think McD does well, is deal. He's cold and calculating and heartless, to be sure, but he gets it done more often than not.
I think we have fairly similar views. Near the end of December, I became neutral on Hornacek. I don't think he's a bad coach, but he has made mistakes, and has probably had more people on his roster over the three years he has been here than any other coach, and I'm sure many more changes will come. Many of the signings or trades were just not smart (Thomas, Knight, Chandler) and while I understand why those deals were done, and know it is MMQBing, a couple of those moves, and allowing Kieff to remain on the team have made an already difficult challenge even more so.
One of the posters here that was an insider at one point, or claimed to be, mentioned last trade deadline that the FO wanted to trade EVERYONE but Bledsoe, Tucker, Len and Warren. I'm guessing because some of the others were very bad examples and creating a toxic locker room (mainly the twins). But most of the team was not purged, and Markieff is STILL HERE. I do understand, and if I was the FO I wouldn't give him away for nothing either, especially at this point, since this season is lost, but again, the Markieff situation has nothing to do with Hornacek.
So keeping players that create a toxic locker room, or do their own things by arguing with refs or doing their own thing (not following plays), and then ADDING Chandler, another guy who checked out in NY and argues with refs, gets techs, and Knight, who has trouble following plays and has brain farts all the time, compound the problem.
I think Hornacek will almost certainly be gone next season and if much of this roster stays intact, he should be. I'm not sure who could whip this roster into shape and make the playoffs, but I'm guessing that list is very short.
IF the team purges Chandler, Knight, Markieff, etc, and keeps the guys that stay engaged, and put in effort, I think Hornacek could likely be very successful. He's made some bad decisions this year, but the powers that be above him have put him in a terrible situation, starting with putting him in lame duck status to begin the year. As you mentioned above, I do think he is harder on a guy like Warren BECAUSE he can still mold him into a better player. Many of the older players are stuck in their ways or want out because of the FO.
Well respected people think highly of Hornacek.
From Zach Lowe a few weeks back:
Hornacek is a good coach. If the Suns fire him, he will draw interest in what figures to be a frothy head-coaching market this summer. Brooklyn, Sacramento, Washington, Phoenix, Memphis, Houston, Minnesota, Portland, and the Lakers all could have open jobs, and the pool of candidates will be loaded with big names: Jeff Van Gundy (quietly a candidate for the Washington job), Scott Brooks, Thibodeau, Monty Williams, and potentially Dave Joerger, Mike D'Antoni, Hornacek, Luke Walton, and others. As Howard Beck of Bleacher Report noted Sunday, there have already been rumors of Phoenix chasing Walton if they dump Hornacek.
Hornacek appears to want to stay in the NBA, according to league sources, and the Suns would be smart to give him another chance. He's smart, and creative. He hasn't done his best work this season, and there are clearly things he can improve upon. This is his first head job, after all. His brief "no technicals" rule last season seemed dictatorial, and he hasn't been able to salvage the team's relationships with Dragic, Thomas, and now Morris. Other people, including McDonough and Sarver, share in that job, and the team's issues with those players stem more from personnel moves than Hornacek's coaching. But he hasn't been able to work any player-coach magic on that front.
The Suns need to be careful here. If they think Hornacek is their coach of the future, they shouldn't let a bad season decide his job status. And without Bledsoe, this could turn into a very bad season. That's OK. Ride out the losing for a few months, snag a lottery pick, and continue building the young core. They can do that while still working the trade market and dangling max cap space at free agents, but any extra dose of continuity would be healthy for the Suns.
This team without Bledsoe was expected to be among the worst. From Kevin Pelton
Alas, the Suns might not have a choice about winning the rest of the season. With Bledsoe expected out until the All-Star break, Phoenix will have a tough time staying in the race for the eighth seed in the Western Conference despite how weak the competition looks.
ESPN's real plus-minus rates Bledsoe the Suns' best player at 4.2 points per 100 possessions better than league averages. His likely replacements -- Booker (minus-3.0), Goodwin (minus-2.7), Ronnie Price (minus-0.3) and Sonny Weems (minus-2.4) all rate worse than league average, most dramatically so. The drop-off could take Phoenix from a slightly below-average team with rough luck in close games (the Suns have been outscored by just 1.7 points per game, ninth in the West) to near the bottom of the conference for the next few weeks.
From Coro near the end of last season:
Last season, Suns coach Jeff Hornacek took an assembly of players who were unproven, overlooked and discarded and created a team that was unexpected, overachieving and distinct.
That made him the NBA Coach of the Year runner-up to Gregg Popovich and an inspiration for Steve Kerr to coach.
Hornacek will not sneak onto any voting ballot this season but that is through little fault of his own. He is the same even-keeled, sharp-thinking coach who brings authenticity and honesty and asks for effort and unselfishness.
Everything around Hornacek and his staff is quite different.
The Suns made five in-season trades. The roster has included 23 players, a total matched only in Suns history by the 1996-97 season. That team had quick dismissals for Sam Cassell and Robert Horry and resulted in a 40-42 season. If the Suns win their finale Tuesday, they will finish 40-42.
The record is a disappointment, especially because a loss would mean the franchise's worst 11-game finish (1-10) to a season since the Suns' inaugural season 46 years ago. But even in the beginning, Hornacek did not have a team projected to make the playoffs.
From there, he had the difficult task of handling the loss of leaders and character players, the ill fit of the team's best three players being point guards and the square-peg, round-hole replacement of Anthony Tolliver for Channing Frye.
To rectify it, the Suns went through the league's largest in-season roster makeover. Through it all, Hornacek had the Suns at 28-20 in late January until a bad stretch before the trade deadline and Goran Dragic's trade request sent the team reeling all the way to the finish.
"Things happened this year that put us into a wrinkle," Hornacek said. "Then when you make a trade, we were right in the hunt of it and those guys get hurt. Brandon Knight gets hurt, which is a big blow for us. We just try to continue to work and get these guys better."
The largely 25-and-under Suns respect Hornacek and his assistants, although they are comfortable enough with the head coach to openly debate him at times. They listen to Hornacek's usual tempered way and react to his anger but were not mature, savvy or team-oriented enough to continue last season's progress. The frustration of players repeating mistakes can be seen on the sideline, when Hornacek turns from a play before its conclusion because of something gone awry.
Hornacek has an ideal relationship with the front office, regularly meeting after practices and games and sharing the same philosophies. It will be interesting to see whether management wants to pick up Hornacek's 2016-17 contract option year and can convince Managing Partner Robert Sarver to do so. It would show their belief in him before next season, his contract's last guaranteed year.
Only about one-third of NBA head coaches have been in their current jobs longer than Hornacek, whose $2 million salary is less than almost two-thirds of the coaches. There is no paranoia about the way Hornacek operates, even if last season's glow has come off a bit in a city where his image has been pristine since he was drafted in 1986.
That secure confidence will serve Hornacek well as head coach if he is given a better roster.
When Hornacek actually had mostly likeable players in his first season, when the twins were behaving so they could get new contracts, Pop says
Spurs 17-year coach Gregg Popovich was effusive in his praise for what kind of coach he thought the Suns had in rookie coach Jeff Hornacek but, like everyone else, hardly saw the Suns’ success coming.
“Before they started playing, if people said they were going to be doing what they’re doing now, I think people would be disingenuous if they said, ‘Oh, yeah, I knew they were going to be like this,’ ” Popovich said. “There are not too many of us who are that smart. I would say everybody was a little surprised awhile back because of so many new players and putting them together and a new coach and a new system. It takes time, but he’s done and they’ve done it more quickly than most.
“It’s just a testament, also, to the character of their players. They’ve got a good, aggressive group. They all come to play. They don’t back off. They all stick their nose in. They’re unselfish. They’ve got a lot of great elements working together.”
Popovich said a coach is in good shape when he does not have to beg his players to give consistent effort, like the Suns have. He said that happens with high-character players who respect the game.
He said Hornacek’s tenacity as a player transferred to his work as a coach. “He played a fundamental game both in Phoenix and Utah,” Popovich said. “He understands what it takes at the highest level to win, and he’ll demand it. He’ll be disciplined, and he’ll do it fairly and that engenders respect ... and you can tell they don’t disrespect him and they’re having fun playing.”
I just hope that when they get rid of him, and I'm guessing it is inevitable at this point, they hire someone better, because knowing our luck and Sarver, we will replace a well respected coach among peers and analysts with someone who is terrible, and Hornacek will end up coaching some team that makes the playoffs in a couple of years.
