Season Speculation, Trade Ideas & Discussion 3: About Last Knight

[bwgood77]

Hey guys, would you guys be open to a Butler deal? We've sort of focused on Minnesota and Boston as main targets, but with LaVine down and Ainge probably lowballing, I figured you guys would be a great partner.

Would something like the PHX 17 pick, Warren, Bender interest you guys?

Could expand to include Gibson maybe? We could take whatever filler you value the least.

Bledsoe/Booker/Butler/Chriss/Chandler
Ulis/Knight/Tucker/Gibson/Len

seems like a strong team, and with your MIA/SAC picks to come.

I'm sure plenty would love to go for that. I kind of want us to grow organically. Butler's a stud, but is he coachable?

I think he is, yeah. I think the attitude things are way overblown.

Last year he found himself in a position as the best player over long tenured/respected vets in Noah and Rose, and there was a bit of a leadership struggle there, but I wouldn't blame him for that. He just saw dysfunction, tried to use an outspoken, willful leadership style to change things, and there was resistance to that.

I don't think it would be as much of an issue if we didn't have Hoiberg, either. He's a 'rookie' NBA coach that isn't very good and no one respects, which creates a hierarchy issue which forces other players to try and fill the build - enter Jimmy.

End of the day, he's outspoken, but he's also encouraging of everyone and is well liked through the league. When things are as dysfunctional as they were in that moment with Wade/Butler comments, Rondo IG post, etc., it can appear to manifest itself negatively, but in a better situation I think he's a great character guy to have around.

Not trying to sell him to you, just being honest. I love Jimmy, I only want to move him because I'm frustrated with the FO and see how crap our supporting cast is. Wade's only going to get older, we have 3 RFA's this off-season, and our 'young talent' are 23-25.

I think it would be a pretty cool lineup in Phoenix - you get to capitalize on Bledsoe's great play, Booker fits well as a shooter between him and Butler, etc. You have a lot of great vet pieces as well in Tucker, Dudley, Chandler, etc.

So are you saying you want to completely rebuild and start over I guess? I mean, I think some here think you plug one player like Butler in here we are suddenly like top 5 in the west, but I still think we struggle to get into playoffs with that lineup. More fun for sure, but Chandler is aging.

I just have a hard time giving up possible REALLY high pick in a great draft, which could turn into one superstar, and Bender is the highest upside guy we have ever drafted probably at the time of the draft (maybe except Amare). I think Fultz, Booker, Bender, Warren (who I'm a big fan of), Chriss, etc plus the rest of our picks and keeping or cashing in on Bledsoe...would likely be higher upside and longer term plan for success.

[MathiasPW]

Bledsoe Booker Butler, Griffin and Gasol - The Bee Gees!

[GimmeDat]

So are you saying you want to completely rebuild and start over I guess? I mean, I think some here think you plug one player like Butler in here we are suddenly like top 5 in the west, but I still think we struggle to get into playoffs with that lineup. More fun for sure, but Chandler is aging.

I just have a hard time giving up possible REALLY high pick in a great draft, which could turn into one superstar, and Bender is the highest upside guy we have ever drafted probably at the time of the draft (maybe except Amare). I think Fultz, Booker, Bender, Warren (who I'm a big fan of), Chriss, etc plus the rest of our picks and keeping or cashing in on Bledsoe...would likely be higher upside and longer term plan for success.

It's a little unprecedented, but yeah, I'm for a full blown rebuild.

I can see both routes for you guys being justifiable. I imagine this would happen at the draft btw (you can't really make the playoffs this year and it would also maximise the value of your pick).

On the flipside though, it may not be Fultz, and Bledsoe seems to be more valuable to keep as a win-now player than trading for a late lottery pick or something similar.

I do think you'd instantly be a playoff team next season. Booker will be in his 3rd year, not that say he's not already an impact player, Chriss (or Bender) will be another year down development wise, and you'd be super deep as well, especially if we include Gibson.

Guys like Tucker, Dudley, Chandler, Knight, etc. are all winning role players that would excel off the bench on a winning team, which I think makes a big difference as well.

As for the C position - Chandler is playing great this season, and would be great for the current lineup.. how long that would continue for, who knows, he is pretty old, but Len could take his place if you re-sign him (I know he's been a bit underwhelming, but he still seems like a good 5th starter). Gibson's also aging well and could slide in to minutes at C.

Bledsoe and Butler are 27, so there's quite a sizeable window there to account for guys like Chriss or Bender, Booker, etc. to hit their peaks, though I think you guys would be good immediately.

In contrast, if you traded Butler to the Wolves, for instance, they have a lot of exciting talent, but the majority of their rotation is super young still. They're not ready to win yet. I think you guys are better positioned to take on a stud and run with it.

[Qwigglez]

Hey guys, would you guys be open to a Butler deal? We've sort of focused on Minnesota and Boston as main targets, but with LaVine down and Ainge probably lowballing, I figured you guys would be a great partner.

Would something like the PHX 17 pick, Warren, Bender interest you guys?

Could expand to include Gibson maybe? We could take whatever filler you value the least.

Bledsoe/Booker/Butler/Chriss/Chandler
Ulis/Knight/Tucker/Gibson/Len

seems like a strong team, and with your MIA/SAC picks to come.

This is a trade that is very similar to my "Butler to Phoenix" proposals. Of course, when I post it the Suns aren't giving enough back and would likely have to include Booker/Bender/Chriss/Warren, both Miami picks, and our own 2017 1st.
Anyways, here's a trade I posted in the last thread...
Suns get-
Jimmy Butler
Robin Lopez

Bulls get-
TJ Warren
Brandon Knight
Alex Len
PJ Tucker
2017 1st, Miami 2019 1st

Not trying to throw Knight on you as a negative asset, as I believe if he was starting his value could easily rise. He seems to play well against the Eastern Conference so I think he could get back to putting up 20/5/4 (on not great FG%).
Alex Len actually has good advanced statistics (I believe he does). But if you don't want him I'm sure we could just cut some players and do Jimmy for Warren, 2017 1st, 2019 Miami 1st (additional salaries to match). If that doesn't work then the Suns could give up the 2021 Miami 1st (top 5 protected for Suns). If it lands outside the the top 5, then Bulls get the Suns 2021 1st round pick and 2nd round pick.

Would love to add Butler, and then the Suns make a strong push for Blake, Ibaka, Millsap over the offseason. He's on one of the best contracts for all-stars/superstars and I think that makes Sarver foam at the mouth.

[Saberestar]

Would you rather have Capela and Dekker than Len and Warren?

It is close, but no.

I would trade Len (or Chandler) and a protected pick for Capela but the Rockets will not trade him. He is a really solid two way C. Perfect for an up and down team.

[GimmeDat]

Hey guys, would you guys be open to a Butler deal? We've sort of focused on Minnesota and Boston as main targets, but with LaVine down and Ainge probably lowballing, I figured you guys would be a great partner.

Would something like the PHX 17 pick, Warren, Bender interest you guys?

Could expand to include Gibson maybe? We could take whatever filler you value the least.

Bledsoe/Booker/Butler/Chriss/Chandler
Ulis/Knight/Tucker/Gibson/Len

seems like a strong team, and with your MIA/SAC picks to come.

This is a trade that is very similar to my "Butler to Phoenix" proposals. Of course, when I post it the Suns aren't giving enough back and would likely have to include Booker/Bender/Chriss/Warren, both Miami picks, and our own 2017 1st.
Anyways, here's a trade I posted in the last thread...
Suns get-
Jimmy Butler
Robin Lopez

Bulls get-
TJ Warren
Brandon Knight
Alex Len
PJ Tucker
2017 1st, Miami 2019 1st

Not trying to throw Knight on you as a negative asset, as I believe if he was starting his value could easily rise. He seems to play well against the Eastern Conference so I think he could get back to putting up 20/5/4 (on not great FG%).
Alex Len actually has good advanced statistics (I believe he does). But if you don't want him I'm sure we could just cut some players and do Jimmy for Warren, 2017 1st, 2019 Miami 1st (additional salaries to match). If that doesn't work then the Suns could give up the 2021 Miami 1st (top 5 protected for Suns). If it lands outside the the top 5, then Bulls get the Suns 2021 1st round pick and 2nd round pick.

Would love to add Butler, and then the Suns make a strong push for Blake, Ibaka, Millsap over the offseason. He's on one of the best contracts for all-stars/superstars and I think that makes Sarver foam at the mouth.

It's not a bad proposal, obviously the PHX and MIA picks are a great start to the deal, but I would still push for one of Chriss/Bender.

Knight, Len and Tucker is a lot for us to take on when we wouldn't really be interested in them for a rebuilding scenario. Wouldn't you want most of those pieces as depth considering you're going in to a competitive phase, or does that affect your ability to play the FA game?

[bwgood77]

So are you saying you want to completely rebuild and start over I guess? I mean, I think some here think you plug one player like Butler in here we are suddenly like top 5 in the west, but I still think we struggle to get into playoffs with that lineup. More fun for sure, but Chandler is aging.

I just have a hard time giving up possible REALLY high pick in a great draft, which could turn into one superstar, and Bender is the highest upside guy we have ever drafted probably at the time of the draft (maybe except Amare). I think Fultz, Booker, Bender, Warren (who I'm a big fan of), Chriss, etc plus the rest of our picks and keeping or cashing in on Bledsoe...would likely be higher upside and longer term plan for success.

It's a little unprecedented, but yeah, I'm for a full blown rebuild.

I can see both routes for you guys being justifiable. I imagine this would happen at the draft btw (you can't really make the playoffs this year and it would also maximise the value of your pick).

On the flipside though, it may not be Fultz, and Bledsoe seems to be more valuable to keep as a win-now player than trading for a late lottery pick or something similar.

I do think you'd instantly be a playoff team next season. Booker will be in his 3rd year, not that say he's not already an impact player, Chriss (or Bender) will be another year down development wise, and you'd be super deep as well, especially if we include Gibson.

Guys like Tucker, Dudley, Chandler, Knight, etc. are all winning role players that would excel off the bench on a winning team, which I think makes a big difference as well.

As for the C position - Chandler is playing great this season, and would be great for the current lineup.. how long that would continue for, who knows, he is pretty old, but Len could take his place if you re-sign him (I know he's been a bit underwhelming, but he still seems like a good 5th starter). Gibson's also aging well and could slide in to minutes at C.

Bledsoe and Butler are 27, so there's quite a sizeable window there to account for guys like Chriss or Bender, Booker, etc. to hit their peaks, though I think you guys would be good immediately.

In contrast, if you traded Butler to the Wolves, for instance, they have a lot of exciting talent, but the majority of their rotation is super young still. They're not ready to win yet. I think you guys are better positioned to take on a stud and run with it.

Good points. It's something I'd have to roll with if it happened and I'd be excited. I like our young guys and want to see the core develop and add another piece, but I'm sure many will say they'd definitely do it. As for Len, many find him underwhelming, and many simply don't like him at all, but some of us really like him.

viewtopic.php?f=27&t=1341376&p=52274404#p52274404

viewtopic.php?f=27&t=1341376&start=160#p50860633

[RaisingArizona]

Hey guys, would you guys be open to a Butler deal? We've sort of focused on Minnesota and Boston as main targets, but with LaVine down and Ainge probably lowballing, I figured you guys would be a great partner.

Would something like the PHX 17 pick, Warren, Bender interest you guys?

Could expand to include Gibson maybe? We could take whatever filler you value the least.

Bledsoe/Booker/Butler/Chriss/Chandler
Ulis/Knight/Tucker/Gibson/Len

seems like a strong team, and with your MIA/SAC picks to come.

How 'bout Chriss and Suns '19 (1-10 protected) instead of Bender?

PHX '17 & '19 (11-30) pick, Warren, Chriss

Chriss > Bender so no.

[GimmeDat]

Good points. It's something I'd have to roll with if it happened and I'd be excited. I like our young guys and want to see the core develop and add another piece, but I'm sure many will say they'd definitely do it. As for Len, many find him underwhelming, and many simply don't like him at all, but some of us really like him.

viewtopic.php?f=27&t=1341376&p=52274404#p52274404

viewtopic.php?f=27&t=1341376&start=160#p50860633

Yeah I've noticed he's really divisive. Maybe that has a bit to do with his draft spot, idk.

What seems apparent to me, from the little I've seen of him, is he's a big dude who can protect the rim, grabs rebounds at a strong rate, is an efficient medium volume C, etc.

He might have his flaws but seems good for a 5th starter. Maybe he does need to be overpaid a bit for his next contract but if the roles right, people will forget that. He's 23 as well so I assume there's still some upside there as well.

[Qwigglez]

Spoiler:

Hey guys, would you guys be open to a Butler deal? We've sort of focused on Minnesota and Boston as main targets, but with LaVine down and Ainge probably lowballing, I figured you guys would be a great partner.

Would something like the PHX 17 pick, Warren, Bender interest you guys?

Could expand to include Gibson maybe? We could take whatever filler you value the least.

Bledsoe/Booker/Butler/Chriss/Chandler
Ulis/Knight/Tucker/Gibson/Len

seems like a strong team, and with your MIA/SAC picks to come.

This is a trade that is very similar to my "Butler to Phoenix" proposals. Of course, when I post it the Suns aren't giving enough back and would likely have to include Booker/Bender/Chriss/Warren, both Miami picks, and our own 2017 1st.
Anyways, here's a trade I posted in the last thread...
Suns get-
Jimmy Butler
Robin Lopez

Bulls get-
TJ Warren
Brandon Knight
Alex Len
PJ Tucker
2017 1st, Miami 2019 1st

Not trying to throw Knight on you as a negative asset, as I believe if he was starting his value could easily rise. He seems to play well against the Eastern Conference so I think he could get back to putting up 20/5/4 (on not great FG%).
Alex Len actually has good advanced statistics (I believe he does). But if you don't want him I'm sure we could just cut some players and do Jimmy for Warren, 2017 1st, 2019 Miami 1st (additional salaries to match). If that doesn't work then the Suns could give up the 2021 Miami 1st (top 5 protected for Suns). If it lands outside the the top 5, then Bulls get the Suns 2021 1st round pick and 2nd round pick.

Would love to add Butler, and then the Suns make a strong push for Blake, Ibaka, Millsap over the offseason. He's on one of the best contracts for all-stars/superstars and I think that makes Sarver foam at the mouth.

It's not a bad proposal, obviously the PHX and MIA picks are a great start to the deal, but I would still push for one of Chriss/Bender.

Knight, Len and Tucker is a lot for us to take on when we wouldn't really be interested in them for a rebuilding scenario. Wouldn't you want most of those pieces as depth considering you're going in to a competitive phase, or does that affect your ability to play the FA game?

Well Tucker is expiring this year, so we'd likely trade him for a late 1st and Knight is an excellent tank commander! I think the Suns front office would push for a trade that is pretty much what you posted, Butler for Warren/Bender and 2017 1st.
Definitely would have to wait til the draft, but I think the Suns would be a in prime position to add a top free agent. Would probably look towards trading Knight elsewhere if you wouldn't want him just because he'd get no playing time if we had Bleed/Butt (and Book).

[Zelaznyrules]

If it were up to me, I'd pass on any Butler deal, no matter the price. But I have a real problem with the way he threw his teammates under the bus several games ago. But forgetting that issue, I'd still pass because I think our ceiling with Butler would still be lower than that of the Chicago team during the Thibs era. Bledsoe is playing well but he's no Rose (when Rose played) and while we have something they didn't (Booker), the rest of that roster was much better than ours would be after that trade. I'd also say we shouldn't add a player as part of our rebuilding future that's 27 or above, and even 26 is borderline - Jimmy will be 28 before the next season starts.

[GimmeDat]

Spoiler:

This is a trade that is very similar to my "Butler to Phoenix" proposals. Of course, when I post it the Suns aren't giving enough back and would likely have to include Booker/Bender/Chriss/Warren, both Miami picks, and our own 2017 1st.
Anyways, here's a trade I posted in the last thread...
Suns get-
Jimmy Butler
Robin Lopez

Bulls get-
TJ Warren
Brandon Knight
Alex Len
PJ Tucker
2017 1st, Miami 2019 1st

Not trying to throw Knight on you as a negative asset, as I believe if he was starting his value could easily rise. He seems to play well against the Eastern Conference so I think he could get back to putting up 20/5/4 (on not great FG%).
Alex Len actually has good advanced statistics (I believe he does). But if you don't want him I'm sure we could just cut some players and do Jimmy for Warren, 2017 1st, 2019 Miami 1st (additional salaries to match). If that doesn't work then the Suns could give up the 2021 Miami 1st (top 5 protected for Suns). If it lands outside the the top 5, then Bulls get the Suns 2021 1st round pick and 2nd round pick.

Would love to add Butler, and then the Suns make a strong push for Blake, Ibaka, Millsap over the offseason. He's on one of the best contracts for all-stars/superstars and I think that makes Sarver foam at the mouth.

It's not a bad proposal, obviously the PHX and MIA picks are a great start to the deal, but I would still push for one of Chriss/Bender.

Knight, Len and Tucker is a lot for us to take on when we wouldn't really be interested in them for a rebuilding scenario. Wouldn't you want most of those pieces as depth considering you're going in to a competitive phase, or does that affect your ability to play the FA game?

Well Tucker is expiring this year, so we'd likely trade him for a late 1st and Knight is an excellent tank commander! I think the Suns front office would push for a trade that is pretty much what you posted, Butler for Warren/Bender and 2017 1st.
Definitely would have to wait til the draft, but I think the Suns would be a in prime position to add a top free agent. Would probably look towards trading Knight elsewhere if you wouldn't want him just because he'd get no playing time if we had Bleed/Butt (and Book).

I mean, we'd have no problems taking them on, even more cool with it if we could flip them for assets of any kind.

I guess that's the other question, would this happen at deadline or draft time?

If it happened at the deadline, the Phoenix pick wouldn't be in the position it is now for us, but if we blow up the rest of the team up we'd have the rest of the season to tank ourselves.

If it happened at draft time, we'd be getting a likely top 3 pick from you, but our own pick would probably be middle of the pack.

There's no major incentive for you guys to get Butler now as opposed to the draft because of the current standings, but I'm thinking it makes more sense for us to do this at the draft. We might end up trading Mirotic/Gibson/etc. for picks and packing it on a bit post deadline anyway, though Butler's presence will ensure we hover around .500 regardless.

[maRioGrande]

Some good news, surgery went well, Dragan is expected to be back in 4-6 weeks

[Qwigglez]

I mean, we'd have no problems taking them on, even more cool with it if we could flip them for assets of any kind.

I guess that's the other question, would this happen at deadline or draft time?

If it happened at the deadline, the Phoenix pick wouldn't be in the position it is now for us, but if we blow up the rest of the team up we'd have the rest of the season to tank ourselves.

If it happened at draft time, we'd be getting a likely top 3 pick from you, but our own pick would probably be middle of the pack.

There's no major incentive for you guys to get Butler now as opposed to the draft because of the current standings, but I'm thinking it makes more sense for us to do this at the draft. We might end up trading Mirotic/Gibson/etc. for picks and packing it on a bit post deadline anyway, though Butler's presence will ensure we hover around .500 regardless.

Well if it happened at the trade deadline I feel like the Suns would have to add more value, which would be Warren/Bender 2017 1st. But if it happened on draft day, we'd have to see where the Suns land first in the lottery. If the Suns got the No 1 pick, then I think our 2017 1st, Warren, and maybe the 2019 Miami pick would be fine as you guys would be able to land Fultz (I assume he's your top prospect for the draft as well). I'd rather do the trade on draft day if it meant keeping Bender/Chriss.
I feel the Suns have enough prospects, and getting Fultz would be fun, but having to develop Fultz/Booker/Bender/Chriss and hoping all of them reach their potential is a massive reach.

[GimmeDat]

I mean, we'd have no problems taking them on, even more cool with it if we could flip them for assets of any kind.

I guess that's the other question, would this happen at deadline or draft time?

If it happened at the deadline, the Phoenix pick wouldn't be in the position it is now for us, but if we blow up the rest of the team up we'd have the rest of the season to tank ourselves.

If it happened at draft time, we'd be getting a likely top 3 pick from you, but our own pick would probably be middle of the pack.

There's no major incentive for you guys to get Butler now as opposed to the draft because of the current standings, but I'm thinking it makes more sense for us to do this at the draft. We might end up trading Mirotic/Gibson/etc. for picks and packing it on a bit post deadline anyway, though Butler's presence will ensure we hover around .500 regardless.

Well if it happened at the trade deadline I feel like the Suns would have to add more value, which would be Warren/Bender 2017 1st. But if it happened on draft day, we'd have to see where the Suns land first in the lottery. If the Suns got the No 1 pick, then I think our 2017 1st, Warren, and maybe the 2019 Miami pick would be fine as you guys would be able to land Fultz (I assume he's your top prospect for the draft as well). I'd rather do the trade on draft day if it meant keeping Bender/Chriss.
I feel the Suns have enough prospects, and getting Fultz would be fun, but having to develop Fultz/Booker/Bender/Chriss and hoping all of them reach their potential is a massive reach.

That's true. I think it makes sense for both teams to wait it out until draft time.

Bulls should 'mini-tank' with Butler, moving Gibson, Mirotic, etc. for whatever assets they can get the deadline, or even target a young talent like Noel (not an Okafor fan), and then look to move Butler at draft time.

[Qwigglez]

Jabari with another knee injury. His trade value just plummeted. This is what is so worrying about Bledsoe. He can fall at any moment.

[lilfishi22]

That really sucks for Jabari. I'm a fan of the Bucks because of him and Giannis. I hope it isn't as serious as it looks but I'm not holding my breath for him to return this season.

[King4Day]

Sprained knee for Parker

[King4Day]

Not familiar with this site but some trade "rumors"

http://www.inquisitr.com/3961511/nba-trade-rumors-brandon-knight-to-the-minnesota-timberwolves/
http://www.inquisitr.com/3962158/nba-trade-rumors-chicago-bulls-get-eric-bledsoe-clippers-grab-wilson-chandler/

There's apparently a rumor too where we'd deal Chandler to Boston for Zeller and Jerebko.

Reading these, none look like valid rumors but it's something to look over and get infuriated at

[Christine-In-AZ]

Not familiar with this site but some trade "rumors"

http://www.inquisitr.com/3962158/nba-trade-rumors-chicago-bulls-get-eric-bledsoe-clippers-grab-wilson-chandler/

There's apparently a rumor too where we'd deal Chandler to Boston for Zeller and Jerebko.

Reading these, none look like valid rumors but it's something to look over and get infuriated at

"So who will the Chicago Bulls have to give up to get Eric Bledsoe? Not a lot quite honestly. The Chicago Bulls can offer the Phoenix Suns Rajon Rondo and shooting guard Denzel Valentine along with a future first-round pick."
ba-da-DING