Deandre Ayton news and discussion

[darealjuice]

I'm not going to get worked up about preseason but Monty publicity mentioning his conditioning is absolutely a concern. Come on man take your **** job seriously.

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It’s frustrating that this has been a consistent problem for him. I even remember people behind me at his Summer League games commenting on how he looked winded and was lumbering around back then. How can you be out of shape after months of draft preparation and a training camp?

[phnart]

I'm not going to get worked up about preseason but Monty publicity mentioning his conditioning is absolutely a concern. Come on man take your **** job seriously.

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It’s frustrating that this has been a consistent problem for him. I even remember people behind me at his Summer League games commenting on how he looked winded and was lumbering around back then. How can you be out of shape after months of draft preparation and a training camp?

If you don't care about becoming great, then you don't prepare. He may be one of those guys that just coasts on some natural ability and size and is fine with making a few hundred million rather than 1/2 a billion. Either way, he's going to be in this league for a long time, just not at 35 million a year.

[Bogyo]

I'm not going to get worked up about preseason but Monty publicity mentioning his conditioning is absolutely a concern. Come on man take your **** job seriously.

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It’s frustrating that this has been a consistent problem for him. I even remember people behind me at his Summer League games commenting on how he looked winded and was lumbering around back then. How can you be out of shape after months of draft preparation and a training camp?

If you don't care about becoming great, then you don't prepare. He may be one of those guys that just coasts on some natural ability and size and is fine with making a few hundred million rather than 1/2 a billion. Either way, he's going to be in this league for a long time, just not at 35 million a year.

Yeah, he is happy with his 2nd contract, and being a worse goofier orlando Dwight (obviously no all nba teams). Good riddance when he pouts his way off the team after CP and Crowder chew him out and his next step is off the Suns.

[Scubetrolis]

I watched this Forum defend Archie Goodwin for years, talking about how he is going to be a monster. Archie never had any production.

Ayton has been solid and a lot of you think he’s garbage.

He can definitely be frustrating at times, but we are a much better team with him on the floor.

[darealjuice]

Expectations are relative to the player. I wasn’t even a big Archie fan, but everyone knew Archie was a project. Ayton was the number one pick. He’s obviously not garbage, but expectations need to be high for him. Everyone who complains about him is complaining because he hasn’t met those expectations, not because we want him to fail.

I also don’t remember Archie Goodwin constantly talking about self-given nicknames and dominating everyone every time he spoke with the media. Ayton’s tendency to talk a lot more than he walks makes him an easy target for frustration.

[phnart]

I like Ayton and only bash him when I feel like he gives up on plays or doesn't seem engaged. Last night was tough to watch for many reasons, but when a guy is capable of getting 20 and 15 seemingly at will, it is hard to understand the nights where there is no fire and an obvious lack of effort. To see Carter go after him a bit in the fourth quarter when Utah was just running them over at will was good, I think, but I'm not convinced that he has that attitude we need him to have for the Suns to be consistent winners again. I'm sure we all agree that a fired up Ayton is bad news for the rest of the league. I just hope it happens.

[Blackification]

We gave him a pass for the conditioning, we gave him a pass when he got popped in that drug test and got suspended for 25 games, gave him a pass when he had to go get benched because he wasn't playing with effort, gave him a pass when he missed his drug test in the bubble. All the while he talked like he was going to go hulk on the court. No more passes for this dude, it's year three and we are doing everything we can to get into the playoffs, even Sarver is spending all he can.

He is going to get **** on every game, and if this is the effort he puts out then he deserves it, it won't take long for his teammates to feel the same way. All we've heard since he came into the league is oh DA can be a force inside when he wants to be, oh we gotta stay on DA to be aggressive, times ticking this is his year to prove he has it and it shouldn't take CP3 or Booker or Monty or even Javon Carter to get on his ass.

[bigfoot]

About the only comment I found on the general board regarding last night's game.

https://tinyurl.com/yadxbgmg

So this is what some others think of the Aytonator

[bwgood77]

This third season will say everything about Ayton.

I was cautiously happy with his play before the bubble, but in Orlando he regressed and that worried me.

He is talented and has amazing physical tools, but those attributes can only carry him to where he is now. No All Star, not even a borderline All Star player and obviously not a max guy.

Every remarkable signing or trade that James Jones has done after taking over has brought in smart and hard worker basketball players, and Ayton for now does not look any of that.

Kokoskov already said "he needs to be in better shape" multiple times in his rookie season, so that is a recurring stuff.

He looks a nice guy and his potential as a franchise C on the Suns is huge yet but he needs to start showing consistent effort and better awareness from now on.

It's odd that he looked to have improved SO much most of the season and then just went back to how he played as a rookie and in college. I mean even Zach Lowe and others pointed it out.

[Blackification]

This third season will say everything about Ayton.

I was cautiously happy with his play before the bubble, but in Orlando he regressed and that worried me.

He is talented and has amazing physical tools, but those attributes can only carry him to where he is now. No All Star, not even a borderline All Star player and obviously not a max guy.

Every remarkable signing or trade that James Jones has done after taking over has brought in smart and hard worker basketball players, and Ayton for now does not look any of that.

Kokoskov already said "he needs to be in better shape" multiple times in his rookie season, so that is a recurring stuff.

He looks a nice guy and his potential as a franchise C on the Suns is huge yet but he needs to start showing consistent effort and better awareness from now on.

It's odd that he looked to have improved SO much most of the season and then just went back to how he played as a rookie and in college. I mean even Zach Lowe and others pointed it out.

I think that's a large part of why people are so frustrated is because he has shown he can play that way, but if there isn't someone staying on top of him constantly to pressure him into it he reverts back to what he is comfortable with or what's easier. He doesn't show that drive to self motivate outside of saying he has it in interviews which makes it worse.

[Revived]

Yup I said the same thing. Ayton was amazing before the bubble after he came back from suspension. Especially with significant improvements defensively. There was a time when he led the entire league in many advanced defensive metrics. He rotated well and showed effort in protecting the rim. However, he lost all of that in the bubble.

Read on Twitter

This is what I was talking about btw. He’s shown that he’s capable of doing it, he has the talent for it. It’s just a matter of actually doing it consistently.

[bwgood77]

I hate how Suns fans give up on bigs so easily. He has always been compared or projected to be like David Robinson even when he was in high school. But we want him to play like Zo.

Ayton is hesitating in many areas still. But watch how quickly he gets rid of defensive rebounds recently. He has obviously been working on it. It shows he can make choices quickly.

Once he translates that to other areas we will see some special things. If he focuses on creating the contact and sees some success IE no foul problems that will expedite his confidence and translate very quickly on the floor.

Huh? He plays nothing like David Robinson. People only compared his physical attributes to Robinson. Similar physique and athletic ability. Very very different players. Robinson averaged 10.2 FT/G as a rookie. Ayton averages 10.2 FT a week.

Very disappointed with Ayton so far. His defense looked great in the bubble but this dude just keeps taking 2 steps forward and 1 step back. Was hoping he'd come out looking dominate on d but he looks as bad as he ever has. Was talking his defense up in the gen board and now I'm looking like a fool.

Yeah, he's not anything like Robinson. However, Robinson was 20 in his first year in college (same age as Ayton in first year in NBA) and averaged 2.6 FTA per game...wasn't even ready to play a ton of minutes.

What is weird is Ayton averaged 5.5 FTA when he was 19 in college, so I don't know why that has changed so much.

Robinson was also 23 as a rookie.

I do wonder where all the people went that said "Bigs take a lot more time". That is somewhat right, especially the one and dones. Most of the previous era successful bigs played 3-4 years in college.

Bamba, Bagley and many of the Cs the come into the league after 1 year of college take awhile. Nurkic, Steven Adams, DeAndre Jordan too 2-5 years. None of those guys averaged many FTAs. Nurkic and Adams still don't. DeAndre Jordan was in year 5 before he even got to 3 FTA a game. Tyson Chandler, a #2 pick took a long time and never averaged many at all. AD only averaged 3.5 as a rookie to Ayton's 2.7. Gobert only averaged 3.3 his second year and was a year older. He also scored less than 10 PPG.

I'm mostly concerned about the defense, but a lot of these guys that came into the draft with him and others took time to be effective there too. Despite the complaints on offense, he is doing better than most any of those guys he came in with or any of the other guys I've mentioned.

He's also played in just over 100 games, so a little over 1 season's worth.

So although the regression on D is concerning, it's only been after the COVID quarantine times when he probably wasn't in as good of shape.

I understand guys should stay in shape but there is only so much you can do at home. And even if you run on a treadmill, that kind of exercise is far different than sprinting, stopping and moving on a basketball court. He has had 8 months off this year too which never happens in the NBA....and had to quarantine most of it.

[dremill24]

I think last night's lapses come down to two things:

1) Hes not in shape. As someone who, at this point in my life, consistently goes out to play basketball games while being out of shape, I can vouch for the fact that the types of plays we groaned about last night can very easily be attributes to conditioning. This is the type of discipline that always leaves you first when youre tired.

2) Trust. He doesnt trust his teammates to "help the helper" if he commits to helping on a drive. Its especially prevalent against high level PnR finishers like Gobert. And to be honest, i dont blame him. Unless its Bridges, the team is pretty bad at the 2nd/3rd/4th rotations after the initial action the someone gets into the lane and the first line of defense goes to help. The guy who got beat on the perimieter, specifically, is often out of the play at that point (looking at you Booker). So the defense is playing 4 on 5 and also scrambling. Defense is about those extra rotations. Its not overly reasonable to expect dribble penetration to be contained very consistently these days, so you have to accept the fact that its going to happen and react accordingly.

Obviously #1 can be improved relatively simply. Just sucks that training camp/preseason is so short for doing it.

#2 is what separates the good teams from everyone else though, so we'll have to see on that.

[Biff]

I hate how Suns fans give up on bigs so easily. He has always been compared or projected to be like David Robinson even when he was in high school. But we want him to play like Zo.

Ayton is hesitating in many areas still. But watch how quickly he gets rid of defensive rebounds recently. He has obviously been working on it. It shows he can make choices quickly.

Once he translates that to other areas we will see some special things. If he focuses on creating the contact and sees some success IE no foul problems that will expedite his confidence and translate very quickly on the floor.

Huh? He plays nothing like David Robinson. People only compared his physical attributes to Robinson. Similar physique and athletic ability. Very very different players. Robinson averaged 10.2 FT/G as a rookie. Ayton averages 10.2 FT a week.

Very disappointed with Ayton so far. His defense looked great in the bubble but this dude just keeps taking 2 steps forward and 1 step back. Was hoping he'd come out looking dominate on d but he looks as bad as he ever has. Was talking his defense up in the gen board and now I'm looking like a fool.

Yeah, he's not anything like Robinson. However, Robinson was 20 in his first year in college (same age as Ayton in first year in NBA) and averaged 2.6 FTA per game...wasn't even ready to play a ton of minutes.

What is weird is Ayton averaged 5.5 FTA when he was 19 in college, so I don't know why that has changed so much.

Robinson was also 23 as a rookie.

I do wonder where all the people went that said "Bigs take a lot more time". That is somewhat right, especially the one and dones. Most of the previous era successful bigs played 3-4 years in college.

Bamba, Bagley and many of the Cs the come into the league after 1 year of college take awhile. Nurkic, Steven Adams, DeAndre Jordan too 2-5 years. None of those guys averaged many FTAs. Nurkic and Adams still don't. DeAndre Jordan was in year 5 before he even got to 3 FTA a game. Tyson Chandler, a #2 pick took a long time and never averaged many at all. AD only averaged 3.5 as a rookie to Ayton's 2.7. Gobert only averaged 3.3 his second year and was a year older. He also scored less than 10 PPG.

I'm mostly concerned about the defense, but a lot of these guys that came into the draft with him and others took time to be effective there too. Despite the complaints on offense, he is doing better than most any of those guys he came in with or any of the other guys I've mentioned.

He's also played in just over 100 games, so a little over 1 season's worth.

So although the regression on D is concerning, it's only been after the COVID quarantine times when he probably wasn't in as good of shape.

I understand guys should stay in shape but there is only so much you can do at home. And even if you run on a treadmill, that kind of exercise is far different than sprinting, stopping and moving on a basketball court. He has had 8 months off this year too which never happens in the NBA....and had to quarantine most of it.

I agree about the age thing, that definitely makes a difference. But as someone that has a very similar temperament as Ayton, I am just skeptical he is ever going to be more than a guy that takes mid-range jumpers most of the time. Like Ayton, I was also very shy as a kid and was afraid to talk to people. And while I'm a lot better than I was a kid, I'm still not what I could call a competitive guy. You either have that or you don't and Ayton doesn't have it.

But like I said in the gen board, he's so physically gifted that he can coast and average 18-20 a game on good efficiency. He's not going to get anyone in foul trouble and isn't going to be taking over games offensively but I think he can at least be a consistent source of points. And I'm fine with that. Like you, where I really want him to dominate is on defense. I don't think the lack of aggressiveness is as important there, he just needs to move his feet and make the right reads. He has really damn good foot speed and can jump through the roof but he just makes bad decisions. There's almost nobody, other than small shifty PG's, that he can't stay in front of. His defense on Giannis is probably some of the best in the league and he's an extremely tough cover. But these mental lapses really need to stop. It's his third year (yeah he hasn't played a ton but that's still plenty of time to watch film and work with Mark Bryant on improving things) and these kinds of mistakes shouldn't keep happening. Very frustrating to watch.

[Frank Lee]

Come on BWg.... somehow Booker stayed in shape, Carter stayed in shape.... 90% of the league stays in shape. Ayton has never been in tip top. Never. I have a feeling that’s all going to change if DA remains the happy go lucky coaster. He sees a big cut in mins, or even gets benched may be then he’ll take the game seriously. Essentially, he isn’t a professional. Still a stoned up college kid.

[bwgood77]

Huh? He plays nothing like David Robinson. People only compared his physical attributes to Robinson. Similar physique and athletic ability. Very very different players. Robinson averaged 10.2 FT/G as a rookie. Ayton averages 10.2 FT a week.

Very disappointed with Ayton so far. His defense looked great in the bubble but this dude just keeps taking 2 steps forward and 1 step back. Was hoping he'd come out looking dominate on d but he looks as bad as he ever has. Was talking his defense up in the gen board and now I'm looking like a fool.

Yeah, he's not anything like Robinson. However, Robinson was 20 in his first year in college (same age as Ayton in first year in NBA) and averaged 2.6 FTA per game...wasn't even ready to play a ton of minutes.

What is weird is Ayton averaged 5.5 FTA when he was 19 in college, so I don't know why that has changed so much.

Robinson was also 23 as a rookie.

I do wonder where all the people went that said "Bigs take a lot more time". That is somewhat right, especially the one and dones. Most of the previous era successful bigs played 3-4 years in college.

Bamba, Bagley and many of the Cs the come into the league after 1 year of college take awhile. Nurkic, Steven Adams, DeAndre Jordan too 2-5 years. None of those guys averaged many FTAs. Nurkic and Adams still don't. DeAndre Jordan was in year 5 before he even got to 3 FTA a game. Tyson Chandler, a #2 pick took a long time and never averaged many at all. AD only averaged 3.5 as a rookie to Ayton's 2.7. Gobert only averaged 3.3 his second year and was a year older. He also scored less than 10 PPG.

I'm mostly concerned about the defense, but a lot of these guys that came into the draft with him and others took time to be effective there too. Despite the complaints on offense, he is doing better than most any of those guys he came in with or any of the other guys I've mentioned.

He's also played in just over 100 games, so a little over 1 season's worth.

So although the regression on D is concerning, it's only been after the COVID quarantine times when he probably wasn't in as good of shape.

I understand guys should stay in shape but there is only so much you can do at home. And even if you run on a treadmill, that kind of exercise is far different than sprinting, stopping and moving on a basketball court. He has had 8 months off this year too which never happens in the NBA....and had to quarantine most of it.

I agree about the age thing, that definitely makes a difference. But as someone that has a very similar temperament as Ayton, I am just skeptical he is ever going to be more than a guy that takes mid-range jumpers most of the time. Like Ayton, I was also very shy as a kid and was afraid to talk to people. And while I'm a lot better than I was a kid, I'm still not what I could call a competitive guy. You either have that or you don't and Ayton doesn't have it.

But like I said in the gen board, he's so physically gifted that he can coast and average 18-20 a game on good efficiency. He's not going to get anyone in foul trouble and isn't going to be taking over games offensively but I think he can at least be a consistent source of points. And I'm fine with that. Like you, where I really want him to dominate is on defense. I don't think the lack of aggressiveness is as important there, he just needs to move his feet and make the right reads. He has really damn good foot speed and can jump through the roof but he just makes bad decisions. There's almost nobody, other than small shifty PG's, that he can't stay in front of. His defense on Giannis is probably some of the best in the league and he's an extremely tough cover. But these mental lapses really need to stop. It's his third year (yeah he hasn't played a ton but that's still plenty of time to watch film and work with Mark Bryant on improving things) and these kinds of mistakes shouldn't keep happening. Very frustrating to watch.

He certainly isn't shy, and he is a competitive guy by nature, given his NB2K competitiveness and crushing everyone getting to Booker in the finals. And he was playing with the Suns. I don't even think Booker ever did.

I know the NB2K thing kind of seems like a joke, but it's true, if you are competitive and work hard on one thing it usually carries over to something else...now passion probably has to be there, but given it's what he spends his career and all his time doing, at some point you'd think he really wants to compete.

For example, there was a recent article about Booker on nba.com about how he was just competitive at everything he did.

[Mulhollanddrive]

For most of their careers Love and Bosh were seen as soft empty stats guys until they found their optimal role as 3rd guy on a great team. If Ayton was pick 6 I think expectations might be more in line with that fit.

[WeekapaugGroove]

For most of their careers Love and Bosh were seen as soft empty stats guys until they found their optimal role as 3rd guy on a great team. If Ayton was pick 6 I think expectations might be more in line with that fit.

For sure on the 6th pick part.

If we're being honest the Luka thing is in play too. It's not uncommon for someone other than the 1 pick to be the best guy in the draft class but it is a bit unique that like 50% of the fan base wanted Luka predraft and how quickly it appeared they were right. But I honestly think the harshest Ayton critics were the people who wanted him and argued with the Luka folks, some of them turned on him because they don't like being wrong.

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[RedIndian]

Does Ayton work on adding anything to his game?

I mean this is his 3rd year, and his basic package of skills is pretty much what he had in college.

He hasn't expanded his range effectively. He hasn't added a dribble drive yet - is still absolutely petrified every time he catches the ball in the high post, and immediately jacks it up for a long 2. He hasn't yet developed the ability to simply hold the ball in the high post, wait for the play to develop and see if he has any cutting or shooting options open. The only pass he makes is the pass back to the ball handler in the perimeter.

Defensively, he showed a lot of growth last year, but every few games he reverts to being the rookie Ayton where he completely blows a rotation and leaves an open path to the lane.

At this point, you have to wonder if this kid is even a hard worker?

I mean Booker relentlessly adds something to his game every summer. TJ Warren was another who worked his ass off and added a 3 ball to his repertoire. The likes of Mikal and Cam have shown terrific development in their short period here so far as well.

Increasingly worried that DA is going to have a Drummond type career. I mean he doesn't have to sweat to put up 18/12 - he's that physically gifted. But are we ever going to see something consistently more?

[bwgood77]

Does Ayton work on adding anything to his game?

I mean this is his 3rd year, and his basic package of skills is pretty much what he had in college.

He hasn't expanded his range effectively. He hasn't added a dribble drive yet - is still absolutely petrified every time he catches the ball in the high post, and immediately jacks it up for a long 2. He hasn't yet developed the ability to simply hold the ball in the high post, wait for the play to develop and see if he has any cutting or shooting options open. The only pass he makes is the pass back to the ball handler in the perimeter.

Defensively, he showed a lot of growth last year, but every few games he reverts to being the rookie Ayton where he completely blows a rotation and leaves an open path to the lane.

At this point, you have to wonder if this kid is even a hard worker?

I mean Booker relentlessly adds something to his game every summer. TJ Warren was another who worked his ass off and added a 3 ball to his repertoire. The likes of Mikal and Cam have shown terrific development in their short period here so far as well.

Increasingly worried that DA is going to have a Drummond type career. I mean he doesn't have to sweat to put up 18/12 - he's that physically gifted. But are we ever going to see something consistently more?

Last year he had added a lot defensively and by the bubble had added a 3. I've never been terribly concerned about his offense. A lot of people want him to be like the best offensive C in the NBA, but he's better than 90% of them offensively already. There are only 3 or so Centers who score 20+ ppg. I think he might even get there this year. If his efficiency can get back up to where it was as a rookie, then he should be a top 4-5 offensive C, even if he doesn't get to the line more than a few times a game or slam it down hard instead of laying it in, or put the ball on the floor a little more.

As far as defense goes, there really isn't a reason he shouldn't at a minimum get back to where he was on help D when he gets back into the swing of things, and gets his conditioning improved..he has a little over a week before the first regular season game...it likely won't be by then but shouldn't take too long. It's tougher with 8 months off in isolation this year and not being able to work out on a court which requires much different endurance and stamina.

As far as switching and guarding on the perimeter, I think he's up there already with the best ones.