2022-23 Season Discussion and Speculation 3 - Trade season begins

[Ghost of Kleine]

Having Ayton as higher value than Siakam is quite a take lol

To each their own I guess!.....lol.

Ayton clearly has a much higher ceiling than Siakim. More size, better efficiency, better athleticism, better efficiency and really better production the majority of the time, and he beats Siakim handily ( even as a 4th option) in PLAYOFFS advanced stats when it matters most! He also has a better defensive rating is younger and is cheaper contractually too. But I understand, we all like who we like it seems. So under these considerations, I see you having Siakim with more value than Ayton being under a similar lens.

You're not wrong GoK, but you have look at this from the lense of our team. What about what you've seem the last 3 years makes you think that Monty would feature Ayton or that Booker/CP3 would take the time to get him the ball?

He's an afterthought on this team. Hell Mikal regularly shoots more than him Jae did as well last year

They just don't respect his game.

They will however respect Siakam's game. So unless we fire Monty and hire someone who will force the change in philosophy then something needs to change to maximize the effectiveness of the whole thing.

Fair points of course. But if If it's a situational trade value premise, then it still doesn't validate undervaluing Ayton due to lack of proper utilization. Value is value in a general comparison. Siakim has a featured more featured role in a weaker conference so his value to some would of course seem inflated by comparison. Put Ayton in a more featured role wherein he instead is a top 2 option for a team and watch the valuation change moreso to his benefit.

I get the premise of undervaluing bigs ( centers in this current climate. And I do agree with the role utilization issues that affect this perception under our current rigid coaching staff/ team scheme. But you don't get better by trading Ayton FOR Siakim ( in a frontcourt swap)! And Especially not adding additional incentives to the deal. You get better by adding a player like Siakim TO a frontcourt WITH Ayton. If that means you send a rich package of assets for him then sure! But you just don't swap one for the other because we need more talent. Not swapping equitable talent at different positions and further reducing what little assets we have in the process.

As for the new ownership replacing Monty, Jones, etc for not featuring Ayton More. Our scheme/ role utilization will inevitably be changed up by virtue of Paul's decline/ departure next season man. And I don't see a more wealthy billionaire owner wasting a young elite max big in a minimized role like our current lesser ownership has! Billionaires' don't waste or minimize assets. They find avenues to maximize their assets to the fullest.

Get ready for the fireworks under new ownership! There'll definitely be big changes coming throughout the franchise.

[dremill24]

Underutilized or not, Siakam is just better than Ayton. Doesnt make Ayton bad, but you're comparing him to an All NBA level player in the middle of his prime. Just a weird conversation lol.

[Ghost of Kleine]

Underutilized or not, Siakam is just better than Ayton. Doesnt make Ayton bad, but you're comparing him to an All NBA level player in the middle of his prime. Just a weird conversation lol.

And If I was comparing him to Julius Randle, who's also been all NBA too whose in his prime as well, But significantly cheaper and wouldn't cost us Ayton + additional assets depth AND more payroll I'd still be comparing him to an All NBA player. Featured role and usage matters in situations wherein it can embellish production and you're also playing against weaker competition so it allows you better representation towards such accolades without more challenging competition. Now that doesn't make Siakim a bad player either. He's clearly very versatile, high motor, and elite with his handle, iso scoring ability, tenacity. But you don't solve one positional problem by creating another. You do this trade IF and under the pretense of adding Siakim to our current core. Not swapping players for one another but surrendering additional incentives and depth. He's a great player and I'd love to add him. Just not swap one elite player for another.

That's just my preference in this. I respect your preference even if I don't agree with it fully. I'd ask for the same consideration is all. Again though!! I ABSOLUTELY DO BELIEVE we could get him as an unrestricted free agent by virtue of giving him a huge contract (under our new ownership). And without giving up cornerstone pieces (just entering their primes too) along with picks and depth. And worst case scenario we don't happen to land him for a rich supermax. In 2024 there's still all of:
https://www.spotrac.com/nba/free-agents/2024/ufa/
Porzingis, J Brown, Derozan, Sabonis, etc.... etc.... We'll be more than OK!

[bwgood77]

Siakam is awesome. He was one of my favorite players, but the year after Kawhi he really struggled and couldn't shoot, which was also the year we went to the finals and Ayton's defensive and efficiency had improved significantly, and Ayton killed it in the playoffs, as one of our best players and best at times, I may have leaned Ayton because they seemed to be going in opposite directions. But since then Siakam has not only gotten back to where he was, but better...last year and even better this year. I don't see how you could pass up that trade, but I'd be shocked if Toronto was to do that. It's not often you have a 24/8/7 player who is 6'9 with a 7'3 wingspan and can play defense, defend multiple positions, play PF or C and maybe some SF if needed.

There are probably only a handful of players in the NBA who meet or exceed his pt/reb/ast totals and they are likely all MVP candidates.

[lilfishi22]

Ummmm how TF did I miss this??

https://www.espn.com.au/nba/story/_/id/35281343/amare-stoudemire-charged-battery-allegedly-hitting-daughter

Amar'e Stoudemire charged with battery after allegedly hitting daughter

Former 15-year NBA veteran Amar'e Stoudemire is facing a misdemeanor battery charge after he allegedly hit one of his teenage daughters in the face.

Miami-Dade County court records show that Stoudemire, 40, was arrested early Sunday and later released on $1,500 bond with a no-contact order issued.

According to a copy of the police report obtained by The Miami Herald, Stoudemire allegedly struck one of his two teenage daughters during an argument at his Miami home Saturday night. The report did not identify which of Stoudemire's two daughters, ages 17 and 14, was hit.

Stoudemire allegedly confronted the girl and accused her of being disrespectful to his mother during a phone call, according to the police report. When she denied it, he told her, "You're talking back again," and punched her in the jaw, leaving her bleeding, the report says.

The girl contacted her mother, Stoudemire's ex-wife, who came to the home, picked up the two girls and their two brothers, and contacted police.

The report says that when officers went to Stoudemire's home, he told them the teenage girl "was sad because she received a whooping from him for being disrespectful and a liar." He then invoked his right to remain silent.

Stoudemire denied the allegation against him in a statement posted on social media Sunday night.

"I could never see myself assaulting any person, especially my children," Stoudemire wrote. "I respect, protect, and love my family, particularly my children. As a father, I ask for your grace as we secure our space and privacy."

Miami Police officials did not immediately respond to a phone message from The Associated Press.

No attorney for Stoudemire is listed in court records. His Instagram page shows he had received his master's degree earlier Saturday from the University of Miami.

Stoudemire won the Rookie of the Year award with the Phoenix Suns after the 2002-03 season. After eight seasons with Phoenix, he was traded to the New York Knicks, where he played five years. He finished his NBA career with one season each with the Dallas Mavericks and Miami Heat before playing in Israel. He retired in 2017.

During his NBA career, Stoudemire made six All-Star teams and averaged 18.9 points and 7.8 rebounds per game.

[Ghost of Kleine]

Siakam is awesome. He was one of my favorite players, but the year after Kawhi he really struggled and couldn't shoot, which was also the year we went to the finals and Ayton's defensive and efficiency had improved significantly, and Ayton killed it in the playoffs, as one of our best players and best at times, I may have leaned Ayton because they seemed to be going in opposite directions. But since then Siakam has not only gotten back to where he was, but better...last year and even better this year. I don't see how you could pass up that trade, but I'd be shocked if Toronto was to do that. It's not often you have a 24/8/7 player who is 6'9 with a 7'3 wingspan and can play defense, defend multiple positions, play PF or C and maybe some SF if needed.

There are probably only a handful of players in the NBA who meet or exceed his pt/reb/ast totals and they are likely all MVP candidates.

It get how good and versatile he is, I really do! But for me at least, When weighing what we'd cumulatively be giving up VS what we'd be getting back and what they'd be looking for in the trade, it's just not worth it and at best a lateral move at best. For me it's important to consider that:

- Ayton is only 24 whilst Siakim is already 28. Ayton has a higher ceiling and also 4 more years ahead in his prime than Siakim has left and again on a cheaper contract too.

- Ayton's statistically better in most categories and on less usage. With more size, athleticism, strength. And is accepting of his role. But as Paul continues to decline and eventually leaves, Ayton would have an increased role and higher production ( addition by subtraction). So I have no doubts at all that he could put up very similar numbers in an increased role as our style of play evolves more to a Book/ Ayton premise. He's also an underrated passer too, so I believe he can add to that too with a more featured role next season.

- Ayton also is significantly better in the majority of playoffs advanced categories. And isn't the playoffs what we're going for here?

- Ayton is showing comparable value on lower usage. But more importantly as a 4th opinion at best and in a tougher Western conference. Whilst Siakim is featured as a primary 1st option which I believe inflates his numbers as reflected by his higher usage and lower efficiency. So which other players in our core would he be taking shots from to sustain those numbers on lower efficiency???

- Siakim is currently well into the max and making more than Ayton. But will also be an unrestricted free agent looking for a super max in 24 as an UNRESTRICTED FREE AGENT. Ayton is currently more affordable for what he brings and on a cost controlled contract that'll look like a bargain under the new tv deal as he enters his prime too!

- Ayton has a better overall defensive rating at 109 vs Siakim's at 112. Not a significant disparity, but still speaks to his value as a defensive lynchpin in our system.

- IF Siakim is going to be an unrestricted free agent in 24' anyways, then why not just sign him as a free agent with a big contract he'll be looking for by our new more wealthy owner and not give up an elite cornerstone piece AND ADDITIONAL ASSETS on top of that just to have to sign him to a supermax anyways! I'd rather add Siakim to our current core rather than having to swap him with also surrendering additional assets and depth in the deal whilst we get smaller and lose depth and assets in the process. I'd have no doubts he'd accept a supermax offer here with our franchise and core than Toronto's mostly gutted core in 24.

- Lastly, this trade premise would have Cam Johnson going where exactly? Being displaced by Siakim at the 4? Back to the bench, etc. Might not be best for the already established chemistry?? Unless of course you slide everyone down one position perhaps?
Book/ Bridges/ Cam/ Siakim/ Scrub??

These considerations are what allows me to pass on this trade premise and instead keep our assets and depth to pursue him in unrestricted free agency under a really wealthy new owner!

** By the way,
https://stathead.com/basketball/pcm_finder.cgi?player_id2=siakapa01&player_id1=randlju01&sum=0&request=1
Just compare a player like Kulius Randle ( who also happened to be an AL NBA player too) and you'll see the statistical production is very, very similar save a few extra assists. But also, Randle is on a much cheaper cost controlled deal by comparison and clearly wouldn't cost us Ayton + assets/ picks! So again, it's just not a great trade for us when there are other more reasonable alternatives.

[Slim Charless]

Siakam is awesome. He was one of my favorite players, but the year after Kawhi he really struggled and couldn't shoot, which was also the year we went to the finals and Ayton's defensive and efficiency had improved significantly, and Ayton killed it in the playoffs, as one of our best players and best at times, I may have leaned Ayton because they seemed to be going in opposite directions. But since then Siakam has not only gotten back to where he was, but better...last year and even better this year. I don't see how you could pass up that trade, but I'd be shocked if Toronto was to do that. It's not often you have a 24/8/7 player who is 6'9 with a 7'3 wingspan and can play defense, defend multiple positions, play PF or C and maybe some SF if needed.

There are probably only a handful of players in the NBA who meet or exceed his pt/reb/ast totals and they are likely all MVP candidates.

He's not a #1 though and he wants a supermax. A team that supermaxes Pasqual Siakam and runs their offense through him is going exactly nowhere. I think Masai knows this. OTOH if you put him with Booker and supplement those 2 with let's say Cam Johnson or Mikal....well that's whole different scenario. Also our new owner is theoretically a multi billionaire and won't mind forking over a supermax to Siakam if it means pairing him with Booker for the next 4 years.


I mentioned it cause I heard Zach Lowe bring up the subject in his podcast a few days ago. Then I saw a quote by 1 of ESPN's basketball guys saying that "every team is watching the Raptors thinking that their guys might be available soon"

Dino fans saw the same things I did and were over in their forum talking about moving him here. It makes sense on paper. He'd give us a true #2 and would take pressure off cp3 and Booker.

I don't know what Masai would want for their guy though.

[cberry78]

Ummmm how TF did I miss this??

https://www.espn.com.au/nba/story/_/id/35281343/amare-stoudemire-charged-battery-allegedly-hitting-daughter

Amar'e Stoudemire charged with battery after allegedly hitting daughter

Former 15-year NBA veteran Amar'e Stoudemire is facing a misdemeanor battery charge after he allegedly hit one of his teenage daughters in the face.

Miami-Dade County court records show that Stoudemire, 40, was arrested early Sunday and later released on $1,500 bond with a no-contact order issued.

According to a copy of the police report obtained by The Miami Herald, Stoudemire allegedly struck one of his two teenage daughters during an argument at his Miami home Saturday night. The report did not identify which of Stoudemire's two daughters, ages 17 and 14, was hit.

Stoudemire allegedly confronted the girl and accused her of being disrespectful to his mother during a phone call, according to the police report. When she denied it, he told her, "You're talking back again," and punched her in the jaw, leaving her bleeding, the report says.

The girl contacted her mother, Stoudemire's ex-wife, who came to the home, picked up the two girls and their two brothers, and contacted police.

The report says that when officers went to Stoudemire's home, he told them the teenage girl "was sad because she received a whooping from him for being disrespectful and a liar." He then invoked his right to remain silent.

Stoudemire denied the allegation against him in a statement posted on social media Sunday night.

"I could never see myself assaulting any person, especially my children," Stoudemire wrote. "I respect, protect, and love my family, particularly my children. As a father, I ask for your grace as we secure our space and privacy."

Miami Police officials did not immediately respond to a phone message from The Associated Press.

No attorney for Stoudemire is listed in court records. His Instagram page shows he had received his master's degree earlier Saturday from the University of Miami.

Stoudemire won the Rookie of the Year award with the Phoenix Suns after the 2002-03 season. After eight seasons with Phoenix, he was traded to the New York Knicks, where he played five years. He finished his NBA career with one season each with the Dallas Mavericks and Miami Heat before playing in Israel. He retired in 2017.

During his NBA career, Stoudemire made six All-Star teams and averaged 18.9 points and 7.8 rebounds per game.

Probably because the media is only referring to Stat as a former Knick/Heat player.

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[SunsRback4Good]

Siakam is awesome. He was one of my favorite players, but the year after Kawhi he really struggled and couldn't shoot, which was also the year we went to the finals and Ayton's defensive and efficiency had improved significantly, and Ayton killed it in the playoffs, as one of our best players and best at times, I may have leaned Ayton because they seemed to be going in opposite directions. But since then Siakam has not only gotten back to where he was, but better...last year and even better this year. I don't see how you could pass up that trade, but I'd be shocked if Toronto was to do that. It's not often you have a 24/8/7 player who is 6'9 with a 7'3 wingspan and can play defense, defend multiple positions, play PF or C and maybe some SF if needed.

There are probably only a handful of players in the NBA who meet or exceed his pt/reb/ast totals and they are likely all MVP candidates.

He's not a #1 though and he wants a supermax. A team that supermaxes Pasqual Siakam and runs their offense through him is going exactly nowhere. I think Masai knows this. OTOH if you put him with Booker and supplement those 2 with let's say Cam Johnson or Mikal....well that's whole different scenario. Also our new owner is theoretically a multi billionaire and won't mind forking over a supermax to Siakam if it means pairing him with Booker for the next 4 years.


I mentioned it cause I heard Zach Lowe bring up the subject in his podcast a few days ago. Then I saw a quote by 1 of ESPN's basketball guys saying that "every team is watching the Raptors thinking that their guys might be available soon"

Dino fans saw the same things I did and were over in their forum talking about moving him here. It makes sense on paper. He'd give us a true #2 and would take pressure off cp3 and Booker.

I don't know what Masai would want for their guy though.

What would the Suns have to give up to acquire Gary Trent Jr? I really like his game he’s a stone cold shooter.

[Qwigglez]

I think Ayton for Siakam is fair for both sides. The Raptors likely won't get a much better offer for Siakam from a contending team, unless they want Poole and Wiseman. Ayton fits the timeline of GTJ, Barnes, and Anunoby though and is ready to produce now while Wiseman is still unknown to be a capable NBA player.
I think if the Suns were to trade for Siakam they'd likely want to try and grab another center since Biyombo and Landale aren't great starters. I'd guess Suns would try to land Mo Bamba or Poeltl.

[Qwigglez]

What would the Suns have to give up to acquire Gary Trent Jr? I really like his game he’s a stone cold shooter.

He's only 23. I don't think he would be available. I think Raptors would try to retool around their younger players like Barnes, Anunoby, and GTJ. They also have Banton and Achiuwa and they are only 23 years old.

[sunsfan1o1]

I think Ayton for Siakam is fair for both sides. The Raptors likely won't get a much better offer for Siakam from a contending team, unless they want Poole and Wiseman. Ayton fits the timeline of GTJ, Barnes, and Anunoby though and is ready to produce now while Wiseman is still unknown to be a capable NBA player.
I think if the Suns were to trade for Siakam they'd likely want to try and grab another center since Biyombo and Landale aren't great starters. I'd guess Suns would try to land Mo Bamba or Poeltl.

That’s a bad trade for Phoenix

[WeekapaugGroove]

I'm not opposed to trading a 1st rounder but I'd sure as hell try to make it next summers first vs something years out.

Sent from my SM-G986U using RealGM mobile app

[bwgood77]

Siakam is awesome. He was one of my favorite players, but the year after Kawhi he really struggled and couldn't shoot, which was also the year we went to the finals and Ayton's defensive and efficiency had improved significantly, and Ayton killed it in the playoffs, as one of our best players and best at times, I may have leaned Ayton because they seemed to be going in opposite directions. But since then Siakam has not only gotten back to where he was, but better...last year and even better this year. I don't see how you could pass up that trade, but I'd be shocked if Toronto was to do that. It's not often you have a 24/8/7 player who is 6'9 with a 7'3 wingspan and can play defense, defend multiple positions, play PF or C and maybe some SF if needed.

There are probably only a handful of players in the NBA who meet or exceed his pt/reb/ast totals and they are likely all MVP candidates.

He's not a #1 though and he wants a supermax. A team that supermaxes Pasqual Siakam and runs their offense through him is going exactly nowhere. I think Masai knows this. OTOH if you put him with Booker and supplement those 2 with let's say Cam Johnson or Mikal....well that's whole different scenario. Also our new owner is theoretically a multi billionaire and won't mind forking over a supermax to Siakam if it means pairing him with Booker for the next 4 years.


I mentioned it cause I heard Zach Lowe bring up the subject in his podcast a few days ago. Then I saw a quote by 1 of ESPN's basketball guys saying that "every team is watching the Raptors thinking that their guys might be available soon"

Dino fans saw the same things I did and were over in their forum talking about moving him here. It makes sense on paper. He'd give us a true #2 and would take pressure off cp3 and Booker.

I don't know what Masai would want for their guy though.

What would the Suns have to give up to acquire Gary Trent Jr? I really like his game he’s a stone cold shooter.

That's exactly what I heard about the Raptors..exact same podcast, and he felt, in the end they probably just move Trent..this is more in response to Slim.

Masai is too astute. I think he would move OG possibly for Cam and Crowder, which may allow them to compete this year and have more shooting...and maybe re-sign Jae and give them some depth.

Gary Trent Jr, unfortunately even though he probably doesn't have a ton of trade value, we don't have much so I don't see it taking less than Cam.

I'd love to get Siakam AND keep Ayton, though I don't see that happening either, since they seem to want a C.

My guess is they would try to trade something like Koloko and OG for Poeltl...and roll with FVV, Trent, Barnes, Siakam, Poeltl.

[bwgood77]

I'm not opposed to trading a 1st rounder but I'd sure as hell try to make it next summers first vs something years out.

Sent from my SM-G986U using RealGM mobile app

I'd probably make it 2024's. The west is brutal and we could drop to play in if Book or even Mikal or Ayton had serious injuries..I'm talking just 7th or 8th with teams coming on at the end like GS/LAL/DAL who are at 8/9/10.

You could easily have MEM, NOP, DEN, POR, LAC, one of the 3 above or SAC or MIN get 6th.

But even if we get 6th our pick could be in the around 19 or 20...pretty good.

I think post Paul, getting something from Crowder, further development of Ayton (if he's here), Bridges, Cam, etc, may put us higher next year with potentially some teams fading some...maybe not...might depend on PG or a solid starting PF and playing Book/Bridges/Cam at 1/2/3.

[Slim Charless]

He's not a #1 though and he wants a supermax. A team that supermaxes Pasqual Siakam and runs their offense through him is going exactly nowhere. I think Masai knows this. OTOH if you put him with Booker and supplement those 2 with let's say Cam Johnson or Mikal....well that's whole different scenario. Also our new owner is theoretically a multi billionaire and won't mind forking over a supermax to Siakam if it means pairing him with Booker for the next 4 years.


I mentioned it cause I heard Zach Lowe bring up the subject in his podcast a few days ago. Then I saw a quote by 1 of ESPN's basketball guys saying that "every team is watching the Raptors thinking that their guys might be available soon"

Dino fans saw the same things I did and were over in their forum talking about moving him here. It makes sense on paper. He'd give us a true #2 and would take pressure off cp3 and Booker.

I don't know what Masai would want for their guy though.

What would the Suns have to give up to acquire Gary Trent Jr? I really like his game he’s a stone cold shooter.

That's exactly what I heard about the Raptors..exact same podcast, and he felt, in the end they probably just move Trent..this is more in response to Slim.

Masai is too astute. I think he would move OG possibly for Cam and Crowder, which may allow them to compete this year and have more shooting...and maybe re-sign Jae and give them some depth.

Gary Trent Jr, unfortunately even though he probably doesn't have a ton of trade value, we don't have much so I don't see it taking less than Cam.

I'd love to get Siakam AND keep Ayton, though I don't see that happening either, since they seem to want a C.

My guess is they would try to trade something like Koloko and OG for Poeltl...and roll with FVV, Trent, Barnes, Siakam, Poeltl.

You must love Poetl as that's way too much for him. OG plus Koloko for him? Lol....if they'll give that up for him then they'd trade Siakam straight up for Ayton. Easily.

[bwgood77]

What would the Suns have to give up to acquire Gary Trent Jr? I really like his game he’s a stone cold shooter.

That's exactly what I heard about the Raptors..exact same podcast, and he felt, in the end they probably just move Trent..this is more in response to Slim.

Masai is too astute. I think he would move OG possibly for Cam and Crowder, which may allow them to compete this year and have more shooting...and maybe re-sign Jae and give them some depth.

Gary Trent Jr, unfortunately even though he probably doesn't have a ton of trade value, we don't have much so I don't see it taking less than Cam.

I'd love to get Siakam AND keep Ayton, though I don't see that happening either, since they seem to want a C.

My guess is they would try to trade something like Koloko and OG for Poeltl...and roll with FVV, Trent, Barnes, Siakam, Poeltl.

You must love Poetl as that's way too much for him. OG plus Koloko for him? Lol....if they'll give that up for him then they'd trade Siakam straight up for Ayton. Easily.

You think OG and Koloko is a better package than Siakam? That's pretty ridiculous.

I like Poeltl, but I wouldn't make the trade I put in the poll, but I know that's the kind of trade Jones would likely make..get a cheaper defensive C and another unathletic shooter.

[Slim Charless]

That's exactly what I heard about the Raptors..exact same podcast, and he felt, in the end they probably just move Trent..this is more in response to Slim.

Masai is too astute. I think he would move OG possibly for Cam and Crowder, which may allow them to compete this year and have more shooting...and maybe re-sign Jae and give them some depth.

Gary Trent Jr, unfortunately even though he probably doesn't have a ton of trade value, we don't have much so I don't see it taking less than Cam.

I'd love to get Siakam AND keep Ayton, though I don't see that happening either, since they seem to want a C.

My guess is they would try to trade something like Koloko and OG for Poeltl...and roll with FVV, Trent, Barnes, Siakam, Poeltl.

You must love Poetl as that's way too much for him. OG plus Koloko for him? Lol....if they'll give that up for him then they'd trade Siakam straight up for Ayton. Easily.

You think OG and Koloko is a better package than Siakam? That's pretty ridiculous.

I like Poeltl, but I wouldn't make the trade I put in the poll, but I know that's the kind of trade Jones would likely make..get a cheaper defensive C and another unathletic shooter.

Maybe I misunderstood what you were saying but I read that you saying that Dinos would trade OG and Koloko for Poeltl. Which is awful. I responded by saying if they'll do something that crazy then they'll trade Siakam for Ayton.

[bwgood77]

You must love Poetl as that's way too much for him. OG plus Koloko for him? Lol....if they'll give that up for him then they'd trade Siakam straight up for Ayton. Easily.

You think OG and Koloko is a better package than Siakam? That's pretty ridiculous.

I like Poeltl, but I wouldn't make the trade I put in the poll, but I know that's the kind of trade Jones would likely make..get a cheaper defensive C and another unathletic shooter.

Maybe I misunderstood what you were saying but I read that you saying that Dinos would trade OG and Koloko for Poeltl. Which is awful. I responded by saying if they'll do something that crazy then they'll trade Siakam for Ayton.

No, OG and Koloko for Ayton is what I meant, but I actually wouldn't be that shocked if they traded OG for Poeltl. Koloko is an ok young C throw in. OG is injury prone and they have Barnes at the 3. If they get a starting C back, Siakam would be at the 4. It might be a little too much, but SA could throw in an Atlanta pick...Raps are good with late picks...even though it might be in the teens.

[Slim Charless]

Siakam is awesome. He was one of my favorite players, but the year after Kawhi he really struggled and couldn't shoot, which was also the year we went to the finals and Ayton's defensive and efficiency had improved significantly, and Ayton killed it in the playoffs, as one of our best players and best at times, I may have leaned Ayton because they seemed to be going in opposite directions. But since then Siakam has not only gotten back to where he was, but better...last year and even better this year. I don't see how you could pass up that trade, but I'd be shocked if Toronto was to do that. It's not often you have a 24/8/7 player who is 6'9 with a 7'3 wingspan and can play defense, defend multiple positions, play PF or C and maybe some SF if needed.

There are probably only a handful of players in the NBA who meet or exceed his pt/reb/ast totals and they are likely all MVP candidates.

He's not a #1 though and he wants a supermax. A team that supermaxes Pasqual Siakam and runs their offense through him is going exactly nowhere. I think Masai knows this. OTOH if you put him with Booker and supplement those 2 with let's say Cam Johnson or Mikal....well that's whole different scenario. Also our new owner is theoretically a multi billionaire and won't mind forking over a supermax to Siakam if it means pairing him with Booker for the next 4 years.


I mentioned it cause I heard Zach Lowe bring up the subject in his podcast a few days ago. Then I saw a quote by 1 of ESPN's basketball guys saying that "every team is watching the Raptors thinking that their guys might be available soon"

Dino fans saw the same things I did and were over in their forum talking about moving him here. It makes sense on paper. He'd give us a true #2 and would take pressure off cp3 and Booker.

I don't know what Masai would want for their guy though.

What would the Suns have to give up to acquire Gary Trent Jr? I really like his game he’s a stone cold shooter.

I guess he got into it with Nurse or something. He might not even be starting too much longer. They are all about getting rid of him. I'd happily give up Jae/Dario/23 FRP for him if we're gonna make a run. He offers some firepower off the bench and can shoot like you said.

I'd rather do the whole thing as 1 trade though:

Suns- Ayton/CamJo/Jae/Dario/23FRP

Raptors- Siakam/Koloko/Trent Jr

Gives us a PF for now and a 5 of the future. Also Trent Jr is a potential 6MOTY with us.