Welcome Ryan Dunn

[garrick]

Aaron Gordon shot like 42 percent from the free throw line, and became respectable enough over time.

Chris webber shot 50% from free throws in two years in collegue and became a good mid range shooter, Blake griffin shot in the high 50%'s and became a respectable three point shooter.

I'm sure if I really searched for it, better examples could be found, but if Dunn can shoot the three ball like Gordon or Blake that's good enough to keep the defense honest.

Aaron Gordon, Blake Griffin and Webber are not perimeter wings and they are not 0 on offense, c'mon

And Aaron Gordon is not a respectable shooter, teams play off him to double team Jokić

The question was about bad free throw shooters who became respectable over time. I included Gordon because he shot 42% in college. The goal post is being continously moved with this question here.

But to humor you, in their first two seasons in college (the fairest comparison considering Dunn only played two seasons) Herb Jones shot 50% from the free throw line, OG 52%, and Michael Redd 60% and there's guys like Dante Exum, DJJ who didn't go to college but shot horribly coming into the league and improved over time.

As for teams double teaming of off Gordon to cover Jokic - yeah that's what teams will do when you have the best offensive player in the league. We don't need Dunn to take step back contested three pointers either, just hit the shots he'll get when KD/Book are being double teamed. Gordon has shot 40% from three in two consecutive playoffs on 2.5 attempts per game. If we only get 33% from three point land from Dunn on the same volume, with his defense, slashing ability, length and athleticism, he's going to be a starter in the league for a long time.

Gordon is an interesting one, it is odd he shot only 40% from the FT line yet hit like .350 from 3.

That does give me a little more hope but I feel like we should have kept Holmes who looks like someone who can really relieve some pressure from the big 3 by being a scoring threat.

[Fo-Real]

His shot cant be worse than Shawn Marion's coming in. His form looked painful!!

[bwgood77]

Marion shot 73% from the line and 30% from 3, but he also could score in multiple ways. He played 1 year in college and averaged, 18.7, 9.3, 2.5 steals, and 1.9 blocks.

Dunn is 53% from line, 20% from 3, 8, 7, 2.3 blk, 1.3 stl.

Also, if you compare Dunn's 1st year to Marion's, he averaged 2.6 ppg, 2.9 rpg, 1.1 blk, and shot 50% from the line and a little better from 3, at 31%, but that was on only 16 total attempts, making only 5 3 ptrs as a freshman.

[bwgood77]

I don't think anyone is denying Dunn's defense and how he may be the best defensive prospect in years outside of someone like Wemby (unless you think he will be more impactful than him)...

but his shooting/offense, is a huge red flag, not only the terrible 3pt shot, but the FT%, if good, usually gives hope that 3pt can be improved.

He will improve some (I think) and he could improve significantly shooting and not hesitating every time he touches the ball and passing immediately, but it's not something that is probable. Hard work is good, but other guys who have developed shots have likely worked harder at it.

The offense could happen..but I am cautiously optimistic, especially that it would happen within the first 2-3 years.

[Ghost of Kleine]

Marion shot 73% from the line and 30% from 3, but he also could score in multiple ways. He played 1 year in college and averaged, 18.7, 9.3, 2.5 steals, and 1.9 blocks.

Dunn is 53% from line, 20% from 3, 8, 7, 2.3 blk, 1.3 stl.

Also, if you compare Dunn's 1st year to Marion's, he averaged 2.6 ppg, 2.9 rpg, 1.1 blk, and shot 50% from the line and a little better from 3, at 31%, but that was on only 16 total attempts, making only 5 3 ptrs as a freshman.

Sure, but for context:
Shawn Marion averaged 32 minutes in his singular year (as a Junior)that you're referencing, and Dunn only averaged 13 in his freshman year as a walk-on. And in a very limited role as only a play finisher and rebounder for Virginia due to their need for size and athleticism as an undersized team (as mentioned by Tony Bennett himself). Virginia also ran a very slow-paced pack line scheme that allowed very little possession opportunities, While UNLV I'd imagine? ran a faster pace with more possessions/ opportunities available by comparison. Am I incorrect on this man? Because for the sake of comparison, I believe situational/environmental context matters.

[Ghost of Kleine]

Not bad

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?s=46

But But people here are saying he can't shoot though and will be a liability offensively! Because as we know bad shooters can't possibly improve! Ignoring situational context to validate positional perspectives .

[mkot]

[

Gordon is an interesting one, it is odd he shot only 40% from the FT line yet hit like .350 from 3.

That does give me a little more hope but I feel like we should have kept Holmes who looks like someone who can really relieve some pressure from the big 3 by being a scoring threat.

Gordon is indeed interesting, he is 29% from 3 this season but close to 60% from the right side/corner 3 and a career 70% FT shooter so obviously he is functional. Teams still just not gonna guard him but with Jokić, Murray and MPJ he finds his perfect role.

Holmes allows team to play 5 out offense, good for Denver.

[mkot]

But But people here are saying he can't shoot though and will be a liability offensively! Because as we know bad shooters can't possibly improve! Ignoring situational context to validate positional perspectives .

No one here say he will never be functional, we all are cautiously optimistic given his poor FT shooting. You don't think shooting 18% on wide open jumpshot is a huge concern? You don't think shooting 58% on layups given his size and athleticism is a huge concern? I don't know if he will ever be at least functional on the offensive end to stay on the court but we know he is definitely a 2-3 year project and chances of him to ever get there is slim. We all hope he will become Herb Jones and Jaden McDaniels but he might just be another Jarred Vanderbilt.

[mkot]

but his shooting/offense, is a huge red flag, not only the terrible 3pt shot, but the FT%, if good, usually gives hope that 3pt can be improved.

He also can't put the ball on the floor nor read the court, literally just a cone on offense

[Ghost of Kleine]

But But people here are saying he can't shoot though and will be a liability offensively! Because as we know bad shooters can't possibly improve! Ignoring situational context to validate positional perspectives .

No one here say he will never be functional, we all are cautiously optimistic given his poor FT shooting. You don't think shooting 18% on wide open jumpshot is a huge concern? You don't think shooting 58% on layups given his size and athleticism is a huge concern? I don't know if he will ever be at least functional on the offensive end to stay on the court but we know he is definitely a 2-3 year project and chances of him to ever get there is slim. We all hope he will become Herb Jones and Jaden McDaniels but he might just be another Jarred Vanderbilt.

Well, that's your opinion, and of course, you're entitled to it, but to try and project outcomes for a 21-year-old prospect as if we are dealing in absolutes is a bit absurd. Of course, any struggles or weaknesses he carries are legitimate concerns, But then again, no drafted rookies are finished products upon entering the league, which is why development is so critical for young players. Also, no young prospect is without blemishes or areas needing improvements. But at pick 28, in a consensus shallow draft, I'm not really sure what people were/are expecting here! Clearly getting a potential all-defensive prospect with a late first pick in a mediocre draft should objectively viewed as a great value acquisition. And should such an elite defensive prospect not have those present areas needing improvement and if already a competent shooter in addition to his clear all defensive abilities, Would it be feasible to say he surely wouldn't be available to us as a late first-round prospect? Rather he'd be a top 5 lotto pick in a draft such as this one!

So are those offensive concerns valid? ABSOLUTELY! Do I think they're irreversible or will result in a very negative outcome for him and his trajectory? Not in the slightest! For additional context as to why I'm not as overtly concerned as some here are with Dunns' value/ impact:


(https://collegesportswire.usatoday.com/lists/2024-nba-draft-profile-virginia-cavaliers-forward-ryan-dunn/)
I accept the "cautious optimism of course. But he did shoot 61.8% on two's which puts him in in the 90% percentile in that metric, He also was solid with a 54.8% FG percentage .

https://www.sportsbusinessclassroom.com/scouting-virginia-forward-ryan-dunn/#:~:text=Dunn's%20biggest%20strength%20offensively%20is,being%20assisted%20on%2067.4%20percent.

Dunn’s biggest strength offensively is his play finishing around the rim. He can use his size and athleticism at the basket for solid finishes. According to www.barttorvik.com, Dunn shot 67.9 percent at the rim on 131 attempts while being assisted on 67.4 percent. He has shown a sharp awareness of cutting to open space, using his tools to finish through contact. He thrives in transition, where he can quickly get up the court to unleash a powerful dunk.

https://statsbywill.substack.com/p/what-we-talk-about-when-we-talk-about

An average eFG% is about 50%; a good one (top 100) is 52%; a great-or-better one (top 50) is about 54%.

Again, Dunn is around 54.8% FG, so "great or better" I'm not as concerned as some maybe are.

https://www.noceilingsnba.com/p/ryan-dunn-agent-of-chaos

2022-23:

2.6 PTS | 2.9 REB | 0.3 AST | 0.4 STL | 1.1 BLK

53.2 FG% | 31.3 3P% | 50.0 FT%

2.0 FGA | 0.5 3PA | 0.7 FTA

31 Games | 0 Starts | 12.9 MIN

2023-24 (as of 11/23/23):

10.3 PTS | 7.0 REB | 1.0 AST | 2.8 STL | 2.5 BLK

54.1 FG% | 15.4 3P% | 69.0 FT%

6.2 FGA | 2.2 3PA | 4.8 FTA

6 Games | 6 Starts | 25.8 MIN

I'm sharing this to illustrate the improvements to the highlighted areas with actual examples of increased minutes. And yes I do recognize his up-and-down three-point struggles too. But near 70% FT is encouraging for sure as well as an oft-used correlative indicator for 3-point shooting etc. with my point being that improvement in these areas is indeed possible.

https://gophnx.com/ryan-dunn-suns-check-boxes-day-1-2024-nba-draft/

Ryan Dunn’s form itself isn’t terrible, and he did shoot a more respectable 18-for-43 on 2-point jumpers, per Hoop-Math. Until his shot comes around, though, his offensive role will mostly be relegated to being a screener, roller, cutter, transition scorer, lob threat, and finisher in the dunker spot. Dunn did take 62.5 percent of his shots at the rim last year, and he converted an efficient 68.5 percent of those looks, displaying decent touch at the rim or outright posterizing people when he had room to elevate:

Read on Twitter

Read on Twitter

Also, Dunn is an elite transition finisher who didn't really even get to show it in Virginia's very slow-paced pack line defensive scheme under Tony Bennett. Dunn is a 75% finisher in transition which puts him solidly in the same grouping with NBA players such as:
https://www.nba.com/stats/players/transition

Better than Lebron James at 73%, Better than Giannis Antetekoupo- 70.8%, Devin Booker- 74%, slightly below ANT- 79%, but also better than Jaylen Brown- 59%, Jason Tatum- 65%, Kyrie Irving- 57%, Donovan Mitchell- 66%, SGA- 49%, Tyrese Haliburton- 62%, Jrue Holiday- 56%. ETC, ETC.

So again, I think Dunns' offensive concerns are honestly being overly dramatized and will be mitigated in large part anyways by the elite level defensive impact/ versatility he'll bring to our team. Also, the shooting will come along too, BUT he wasn't brought in for his shooting and as such, it won't be as big of a factor as some ar trying to make it out to be.

*** The last tweet by Kevin O'Connor was to illustrate Dunns' value to us as an elite defensive playmaker/anchor. And not with critical emphasis on immediate offensive impact or development.

[bwgood77]

Marion shot 73% from the line and 30% from 3, but he also could score in multiple ways. He played 1 year in college and averaged, 18.7, 9.3, 2.5 steals, and 1.9 blocks.

Dunn is 53% from line, 20% from 3, 8, 7, 2.3 blk, 1.3 stl.

Also, if you compare Dunn's 1st year to Marion's, he averaged 2.6 ppg, 2.9 rpg, 1.1 blk, and shot 50% from the line and a little better from 3, at 31%, but that was on only 16 total attempts, making only 5 3 ptrs as a freshman.

Sure, but for context:
Shawn Marion averaged 32 minutes in his singular year (as a Junior)that you're referencing, and Dunn only averaged 13 in his freshman year as a walk-on. And in a very limited role as only a play finisher and rebounder for Virginia due to their need for size and athleticism as an undersized team (as mentioned by Tony Bennett himself). Virginia also ran a very slow-paced pack line scheme that allowed very little possession opportunities, While UNLV I'd imagine? ran a faster pace with more possessions/ opportunities available by comparison. Am I incorrect on this man? Because for the sake of comparison, I believe situational/environmental context matters.

Then compare his 2nd year which I listed first. I don't know that the fact he wasn't good enough to play much as a freshman works to his benefit. Marion beats him in per 40 minutes too or per 100 possessions.

You really think this guy is as good as Marion?

[Blonde]

From Vecenie, who graded the Suns a B+ for their draft:
“Dunn is one of the best defensive prospects I’ve evaluated. He’s that good. He’s a true defensive playmaker who flies around the court and wreaks havoc with his immense athleticism and length, forcing turnovers all over. He’s also one of the worst offensive prospects in the first round that I’ve seen in the last 10 years. He looked quite uncomfortable with the ball by the end of the season for Virginia, and hasn’t come close to making 3s yet in his collegiate career. The good news? Phoenix has enough offense. They need defenders. Dunn should be able to become more of a screen-and-roll threat around Kevin Durant, Devin Booker and Bradley Beal. As long as plays with players who can shoot, I’d expect Dunn to play quite a bit this season. This is about as good a landing spot for him as he could have expected.”

I think Sam kind of misevaluates the Suns needs tbh. They rated very highly on the defensive end by the end of last season. Offense was their undoing in the playoffs. But of course every contender needs a lockdown defensive option so Dunn will still be useful if we can play him around 4 shooters.

[Ghost of Kleine]

but his shooting/offense, is a huge red flag, not only the terrible 3pt shot, but the FT%, if good, usually gives hope that 3pt can be improved.

He also can't put the ball on the floor nor read the court, literally just a cone on offense

Again, you are aware that Dunn has elite spatial awareness, is an above-average cutter, and is an underrated playmaker too. Sure he didn't average hardly any assists in his limited role of 13 minutes in his freshman year as a play finisher and athletic dunkers' spot lob threat/rebounder per Tony Bennett. But he also didn't make many if any mistakes in his role either and DID SHOW FLASHES OF ADVANCED court vision and playmaking in the short roll too:
https://www.noceilingsnba.com/p/ryan-dunn-agent-of-chaos (this is a really good breakdown on Dunn you should read if you find some time man)
**Check out the short video breakdowns on Dunns' Awareness (1 and 2) as well as his patience and especially playmaking! I would paste them here, but it won't allow me to, unfortunately.

There have been minimal flashes when it comes to the playmaking from Ryan Dunn this year. He’s averaging just 1.2 assists per game to go with 0.4 turnovers. With his role currently with Virginia, it’s simply just not part of his game. Virginia puts Dunn all over the place on the offensive side of the ball.

You’ll see instances in which he’s the roll man in P&R actions. He’s just been asked to do a little bit of everything, going back to his limited minutes as a freshman. But there are some “teases” of Dunn having some feel on the offensive side of the floor. Personally, this is another area I want to focus on throughout the year. If Dunn can continue to showcase some instances of feel, that might be another aspect of his game that is waiting to be unlocked.

https://edemirnba.substack.com/p/ryan-dunn-scouting-report

Another value in his profile that improves a passer imminent is his composure. In the fourth play below, Dunn dribbles out of the double-team around the baseline to come up with the skip pass to elbow shooter. Answering on-ball pressure is the key element for ball handlers in creating advantages, and Dunn is showing flashes he can do it for a team in the long run.

Acknowledging that Dunn will mostly used as a ball-move early on, the last play below shows how he can thrive in that role as a does-it-all wing. After the side pass, Dunn sets a strong screen, following it up by going into offensive box-out mode to battle for a potential long rebound. Looking further than the lack of self-confidence at times, it should be hopeful for NBA decision-makers to see Dunn mastering all the must-haves to improve as an offensive piece in the NBA.

[Ghost of Kleine]

From Vecenie, who graded the Suns a B+ for their draft:
“Dunn is one of the best defensive prospects I’ve evaluated. He’s that good. He’s a true defensive playmaker who flies around the court and wreaks havoc with his immense athleticism and length, forcing turnovers all over. He’s also one of the worst offensive prospects in the first round that I’ve seen in the last 10 years. He looked quite uncomfortable with the ball by the end of the season for Virginia, and hasn’t come close to making 3s yet in his collegiate career. The good news? Phoenix has enough offense. They need defenders. Dunn should be able to become more of a screen-and-roll threat around Kevin Durant, Devin Booker and Bradley Beal. As long as plays with players who can shoot, I’d expect Dunn to play quite a bit this season. This is about as good a landing spot for him as he could have expected.”

I think Sam kind of misevaluates the Suns needs tbh. They rated very highly on the defensive end by the end of last season. Offense was their undoing in the playoffs. But of course every contender needs a lockdown defensive option so Dunn will still be useful if we can play him around 4 shooters.

Did he really misevaluate our needs though??

I mean sure we obviously struggled whenever we couldn't shoot at a high level. But equally important is the consideration that aside from a 36 yr old KD, we didn't really have any legitimate lockdown defenders to stop opposing star players, or even stop or effectively slow down opposing teams runs against us after we'd built early leads! This forced us to continue having our star players try and carry us by coming back in early in order to try to keep rebuilding leads again that we frequently gave up due to lack of defensive resistance. In the postseason, when w couldn't score at a high level, opposing teams best players just cooked us repeatedly to the point of our players becoming passive and giving up on plays and defense.

Thee suns finally recognized this, and accordingly chose to add two very solid defensive players in Dunn and Ighodaro so those players could take the bulk of defensive pressure off of our stars, because.....................

It wasn't fair to put that much pressure on KD at age 36 while also asking him to be an elite closer for us too in the 4th quarter. Having to carry us as a defensive anchor as well as trying to carry us offensively was just too much for KD and clearly exhausted him/wore him and our other ky players down early on trying to constantly build leads back because we just couldn't stop or slow down the opposition. We also got cooked from three by teams not only because we didn't shoot enough ourselves, but because our perimeter defense and defensive rotations were lackluster at best.

Lastly, We had no dominant interior rim post presence or athletic rim protection to keep teams from getting high percentage shots against us, which in turn fed the opposing teams offensive rhythm and exacerbated our defensive woes once those teams found good rhythm and started raining threes on us. This forced our stars to have to work much harder to keep us in front or to fight back into games again after w gave up leads to easily. And this was a root cause (along with lack of legitimate bench depth) that caused our stars/starters to struggle significantly heading into 3rd and 4th quarters due to being worn down and becoming less effective as a result. This is why defenders were paramount to help change this dynamic. Not to mention ending a lgit elite lockdown defender that could actually slow down, stop, frustrate opposing star players like ANT, Murray, Lebron, George, Kwahi, Harden, Morant, etc.

Okogie was a solid defender, but nowhere near elite enough to stop these stars, which is why he got cooked by Murray while defending him. Having elite backline defenders also allows us the ability to extend our dfnders out further and more aggressively on the perimeter and hopefully could reduce the frequency of made threes by our opposition.

[Ghost of Kleine]

Marion shot 73% from the line and 30% from 3, but he also could score in multiple ways. He played 1 year in college and averaged, 18.7, 9.3, 2.5 steals, and 1.9 blocks.

Dunn is 53% from line, 20% from 3, 8, 7, 2.3 blk, 1.3 stl.

Also, if you compare Dunn's 1st year to Marion's, he averaged 2.6 ppg, 2.9 rpg, 1.1 blk, and shot 50% from the line and a little better from 3, at 31%, but that was on only 16 total attempts, making only 5 3 ptrs as a freshman.

Sure, but for context:
Shawn Marion averaged 32 minutes in his singular year (as a Junior)that you're referencing, and Dunn only averaged 13 in his freshman year as a walk-on. And in a very limited role as only a play finisher and rebounder for Virginia due to their need for size and athleticism as an undersized team (as mentioned by Tony Bennett himself). Virginia also ran a very slow-paced pack line scheme that allowed very little possession opportunities, While UNLV I'd imagine? ran a faster pace with more possessions/ opportunities available by comparison. Am I incorrect on this man? Because for the sake of comparison, I believe situational/environmental context matters.

Then compare his 2nd year which I listed first. I don't know that the fact he wasn't good enough to play much as a freshman works to his benefit. Marion beats him in per 40 minutes too or per 100 possessions.

You really think this guy is as good as Marion?

Clearly, I was referencing the minutes differential in the context of the available opportunity. It has very little if anything to do with being good enough or not for this comparison without having Marions' available freshman stats. You ask me to compare his 2nd year to Marions' 3rd year at UNLV while still not taking into consideration the factors of on court experience, development opportunities, role or scheme that clearly might have limited or restricted developmental growth. So trying to compare the two when Dunn was a freshman playing around 13 minutes a game vs Marions' 32 minutes as a junior with more experience to and as mentioned an entirely different system/ style of play is disingenuous and an apples-to-oranges comparison contextually man. All of these contextual factors I've shared with you too from my previous post citing multiple articles in response to his limited role and minutes/opportunities for development as well as pace and defensive scheme under Bennett at Virginia.

Did Marion play only 13 minutes as a freshman, and if so, what were his numbers for equitable comparison? Did UNLV play at a very slow pace to and have very limited possessions in their scheme? again for comparison as these factors do matter in the context of developmental opportunities. Comparing a player like Marion who was already in his 2nd or even 3rd year and getting around 32 minutes a game in an entirely different system/pace to a freshman player logging maybe 13 minutes a game as a walk-on prospect having to play behind already established rotation players is not even a fair or reasonably equitable comparison.

But beyond that, BOTH players are similar in that they're both elite athletes, both defense-oriented wings with elite defensive abilities, both have/had shooting concerns and were/are not good shooters but provided significant impact beyond those concerns.

And do I think Dunn is as good as Marion, of course not (currently) BUT I'm not going to try and assess a 21-year-old's ceiling outcome projection either using a singular determinate factor to say he couldn't get there at least defensively. And anyone short of being a gifted psychic probably shouldn't jump to such assertions positive or negative outcome judgments either so early on.

[mkot]

Again, you are aware that Dunn has elite spatial awareness, is an above-average cutter, and is an underrated playmaker too. Sure he didn't average hardly any assists in his limited role of 13 minutes in his freshman year as a play finisher and athletic dunkers' spot lob threat/rebounder per Tony Bennett. But he also didn't make many if any mistakes in his role either and DID SHOW FLASHES OF ADVANCED court vision and playmaking in the short roll too:
https://www.noceilingsnba.com/p/ryan-dunn-agent-of-chaos (this is a really good breakdown on Dunn you should read if you find some time man)

Anyone can look good in highlights, you have to watch the game which I did watch some, he literally get rid of the ball as soon as he touches it almost always. The few times Ive watched him I honestly don't see none of that. Honestly with his already elite defense, you'd think he got drafted in the lottery if he processes any of the skills you mentioned above.

Again I'm not saying there's no chance for him to become a functional offensive player, but there's a spectrum there. From what I have seen of him in college I'd give him a 10% chance of becoming that. If I had to bet my house I'd bet 0%. And again, that doesn't mean he can't be impactful. If Lakers can manage a 5 out offense by involving Jarred Vanderbilt in DHO and cuts when he's on the court, no reason why we can't do something similar with the offensive players on this roster at least for the regular season.

[Ghost of Kleine]

Again, you are aware that Dunn has elite spatial awareness, is an above-average cutter, and is an underrated playmaker too. Sure he didn't average hardly any assists in his limited role of 13 minutes in his freshman year as a play finisher and athletic dunkers' spot lob threat/rebounder per Tony Bennett. But he also didn't make many if any mistakes in his role either and DID SHOW FLASHES OF ADVANCED court vision and playmaking in the short roll too:
https://www.noceilingsnba.com/p/ryan-dunn-agent-of-chaos (this is a really good breakdown on Dunn you should read if you find some time man)

Anyone can look good in highlights, you have to watch the game which I did watch some, he literally get rid of the ball as soon as he touches it almost always. The few times Ive watched him I honestly don't see none of that. Honestly with his already elite defense, you'd think he got drafted in the lottery if he processes any of the skills you mentioned above.

Again I'm not saying there's no chance for him to become a functional offensive player, but there's a spectrum there. From what I have seen of him in college I'd give him a 10% chance of becoming that. If I had to bet my house I'd bet 0%. And again, that doesn't mean he can't be impactful. If Lakers can manage a 5 out offense by involving Jarred Vanderbilt in DHO and cuts when he's on the court, no reason why we can't do something similar with the offensive players on this roster at least for the regular season.

The videos weren't highlight clips as much as short breakdowns of the very aspects of his game that expert scouts who've done this professionally for a long time breakdown evidence of in their reports. This becomes important as sometimes the eye test alone doesn't always reveal everything to everyone. I'm not sure what difference it really makes whether he's holding the ball longer or getting rid of it quickly as long as the result is still effective to moving the ball in his role which he obviously does with little to no errors as indicated in multiple draft reports and articles in his draft profile. And it's great that you've watched him some as so have I extensively. But again, "eye-of-the-beholder" perspectives often apply to those scenarios sometimes too. Regardless of his elite defensive abilities which have been well documented and established by the consensus, the whole reason he's even available in our range and not in the top 5 of the lottery is quite simply the scalable value correlation to offensive prevalence in today's game being the preference.

However, those same concerns that allowed an all-defensive potential lottery-level talent to anomalously slide to us so we could acquire him in our later range represent really the only barrier to him potentially returning lottery-level value and perhaps even a firing all-star bid resulting in him returning immense trade value and designation as a potential steal of this draft. Now again, his defensive abilities and correlative impact have already been well established. So those concerns are the necessary trade-off for getting this type of elite defensive talent outside of the lottery, and obviously a very fair trade-off in terms of an extreme value acquisition costing us nearly nothing.

I understand that there is a spectrum, But of the clear information I've shared (in multiple posts too), It indicates fairly well that he should fall more favorably in that spectrum than the inverse outcome negatively. As far as your individual perspective goes man, It's respectfully noted. But it appears the consensus of actual NBA experts, scouts, and lifelong NBA experts/pundits, and even front office execs that do this for a living are aligned with mine and other's more favorable outcome assessment than just a mere 10% chance of becoming a functional offensive player. Again, I respect your and other's opinions even if I may vehemently disagree with yours (and a few others negative perspectives on this prospect. And I eagerly look forward to seeing how things play out regarding Dunns' impact and projected value trajectory.

[garrick]

[

Gordon is an interesting one, it is odd he shot only 40% from the FT line yet hit like .350 from 3.

That does give me a little more hope but I feel like we should have kept Holmes who looks like someone who can really relieve some pressure from the big 3 by being a scoring threat.

Gordon is indeed interesting, he is 29% from 3 this season but close to 60% from the right side/corner 3 and a career 70% FT shooter so obviously he is functional. Teams still just not gonna guard him but with Jokić, Murray and MPJ he finds his perfect role.

Holmes allows team to play 5 out offense, good for Denver.

He would have been good here because we played well with KD at the 5 doing small ball but that wears him out.

Holmes ability to stretch the floor would have been huge similar to what Miles Turner does in Indiana but from the looks of it it seems like we made a promise to Dunn that we would choose him no matter what in the draft. I'm happy with our other selections considering who was left in the draft but I'm left wondering that we made the wrong choice by shipping out Holmes for a player who won't be ready to play in late game situations because of his shooting liabilities.

It's really too bad that we didn't have an early 2nd round pick because I think he most likely would have fallen to the 2nd round if we didn't pick him at 28.

[garrick]

Marion shot 73% from the line and 30% from 3, but he also could score in multiple ways. He played 1 year in college and averaged, 18.7, 9.3, 2.5 steals, and 1.9 blocks.

Dunn is 53% from line, 20% from 3, 8, 7, 2.3 blk, 1.3 stl.

Also, if you compare Dunn's 1st year to Marion's, he averaged 2.6 ppg, 2.9 rpg, 1.1 blk, and shot 50% from the line and a little better from 3, at 31%, but that was on only 16 total attempts, making only 5 3 ptrs as a freshman.

Yeah I think this is one point the Dunn supporters are overlooking, yes some players managed to become good or passable scorers from 3 but they scored a lot more points than Dunn did in college, Dunn did not even crack double figures in scoring which is a lot different from someone like Marion who scored 18ppg.

Marion also shot 73% on FTs and 29.9% from 3 which is a helluva lot better than 20%.

[lilfishi22]

Not bad

Read on Twitter

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But But people here are saying he can't shoot though and will be a liability offensively! Because as we know bad shooters can't possibly improve! Ignoring situational context to validate positional perspectives .

Anyone can look good in an open gym. I also don't think this footage is coming out if he was shooting bricks