Recipe for the Future (if we do or don’t blow it up)

[Ghost of Kleine]

Ghost is word bombing again…

Relapse

Sorry! I may have had too much sugar today....LOL

[lilfishi22]

In a more concise ( as promised) response to BWgoods' Keep Book/ quick reload by trading KD premise:

In keeping Booker and trying to remain competitive from whatever we get just trading KD and then making moves around the margins, which I can empathize with but would wholeheartedly do not endorse, as we'd still be hemorrhaging lottery value (picks) to teams like Houston and Washington) while not really becoming much better over the next couple of years anyways. But let's explore this premise a bit more to see if we can put frosting on a turd and call it a cupcake...LOL

KD to Minnesota (Quick reload premise)

Minnesota- KD.

Phoenix- Randle/ Reid/ Dillingham/ DET 25' 1ST (17TH PICK)/ MIN 32' 1st (similar value to our 31' 1st we gave up to Utah).

Booker/ Beal/ Dunn/ Randle/ Richards.
Beal/ Allen/ O'neale/ Ighodaro/ Reid.
Milicic/ Dillingham/ Martin/ Bol/ Ighodaro.

What can we do with Randle and Dillingham?
Randle represents a massive $30 million expiring we can just let run out for more cap flexibility OR we can look to trade him for another key veet player, etc. Plus we should be able to aggregate salaries once the cap increases and if any trade we do doesn't put us back over the 2nd apron. So I'd look at doing this (if trying to become more competitive now!! So we'll consider these trades this summer. Upon acquiring Randle/Reid/Dillingham jr/ DET 25' 1st (17th pick)/ MIN 32' 1st. We trade (draft night)
1- Dillingham Jr (lottery pick value- 8th pick)/ DET 25' 1st/ CLE 29' 1st to Brooklyn for the 19th, 24th, 27th picks. So we can now draft:
19- Rasheer Fleming PF ( 6'9 240 lbs 3+D 4/5).
24- Sergio de Larrea PG (6'6 218 lbs).
27- Carter Bryant SF/PF (6'8 220 lbs)
54- Kobe Brea SG ( 6'7 215 lb)
Undrafted Ranges ( G-League)
1- Zvonimr Ivisic. 7'2 PF/C
2- Vladislav Goldin 7'1 3+D center

2- Trade Randle/ Martin/ CLE 27' 1st/ CLE 29' 1st for Michael Porter Jr.
3- O'neale to Toronto for the Portland 25' 2nd ( 39th pick) or to Golden State for the MIA 2nd (40th pick). That will save us close to $10 million. Then we use the 39th or 40th pick on Myles Byrd (to replace O'neale). **** Buy out Milicic, and trade Allen to Orlando for Bidatze. Now our roster for next season becomes: (shaves $21 million off our cap totals!)

Booker/ Beal/ Dunn/ Porter Jr/ Richards.
Morris/Trent Jr/ Bryant/ Reid/ Bidatze.
Larrea/ Brea/ Byrd/ Fleming/ Ighodaro.

In trading O'neale for a 2nd, moving Allen for Bidatze, And waiving/ buying out Milicic, we've now effectively cut around $21 million from our cap line while upgrading various positions, getting much younger and more athletic, and adding significant size to our roster. Our roster is also flush with athletic 3&D wings, forwards, and 4/5s. We'll be out from under the 2nd apron and very possibly the first apron too, and will be able to make a wide range of moves as needed. So we can add vets and do key trades as needed.

Mentioned before, dealing with Minny is next to impossible because they are also over the 2nd apron which mean, they also cannot aggregate players.

Randle and Reid both having player options complicate things even further. Reid will probably get extended and I'm not sure what's going to happen with Randle

For sure you're right man! Everything is difficult bring in the 2nd apron man. They'd have to cut maybe $ 17 million over the 2nd apron, and could really to do the KD trade, but they'd need to salary dump Conley and DiVincenzo or buyout Conley and then trade DiVincenzo for a future pick. Then they'd be like 4 million under and the Randle trade that I suggested would be almost "dollar for dollar" match. definitely difficult, but not at all impossible. I could see a number of teams willing to take DiVincenzo into space. Really any of Golden State, Toronto, San Antonio, or maybe Orlando? Regardless, if KD is available and willing to go to Minnesota to play with Edwards, then I can't see Conley or even DiVincenzo holding up a trade. Especially not considering the infatuation Edwards has with KD and the mutual interest shared between both players too.

Or really, If they wanted to get far enough under the 2nd apron to still do the trade and keep DiVincenzo, they could alternatively just choose to buyout Conley and Shannon Jr, then just decline Garzas' and Minotts' team options and be far enough under the 2nd apron to be able to do the KD trade and still keep DiVincenzo. Although they may not want to keep their 25' picks because those would add a few million back again and put them over the 2nd apron yet again. Much the same reason they'd have to trade Randle and Reid together as both have increases next season.

It's really difficult because there's a lot that is out of Minny's hands. For example you need Randle and Reid to both opt-in when there's little reason for them to. It's not like trading an expiring deal because they've technically already expired at this point post the trade deadline. So you're asking them to forego an extension, pick up a one year option, only to be traded. Why would they want to do that if they could get a mult-year extension now. That's without all the 2nd apron restrictions.

Now they could agree to an extension after opting in and a deal is done but that kind of defeats the originally purpose of Randle's inclusion which is to be an expiring.

[Ghost of Kleine]

Mentioned before, dealing with Minny is next to impossible because they are also over the 2nd apron which mean, they also cannot aggregate players.

Randle and Reid both having player options complicate things even further. Reid will probably get extended and I'm not sure what's going to happen with Randle

For sure you're right man! Everything is difficult bring in the 2nd apron man. They'd have to cut maybe $ 17 million over the 2nd apron, and could really to do the KD trade, but they'd need to salary dump Conley and DiVincenzo or buyout Conley and then trade DiVincenzo for a future pick. Then they'd be like 4 million under and the Randle trade that I suggested would be almost "dollar for dollar" match. definitely difficult, but not at all impossible. I could see a number of teams willing to take DiVincenzo into space. Really any of Golden State, Toronto, San Antonio, or maybe Orlando? Regardless, if KD is available and willing to go to Minnesota to play with Edwards, then I can't see Conley or even DiVincenzo holding up a trade. Especially not considering the infatuation Edwards has with KD and the mutual interest shared between both players too.

Or really, If they wanted to get far enough under the 2nd apron to still do the trade and keep DiVincenzo, they could alternatively just choose to buyout Conley and Shannon Jr, then just decline Garzas' and Minotts' team options and be far enough under the 2nd apron to be able to do the KD trade and still keep DiVincenzo. Although they may not want to keep their 25' picks because those would add a few million back again and put them over the 2nd apron yet again. Much the same reason they'd have to trade Randle and Reid together as both have increases next season.

It's really difficult because there's a lot that is out of Minny's hands. For example you need Randle and Reid to both opt-in when there's little reason for them to. It's not like trading an expiring deal because they've technically already expired at this point post the trade deadline. So you're asking them to forego an extension, pick up a one year option, only to be traded. Why would they want to do that if they could get a mult-year extension now. That's without all the 2nd apron restrictions.

Now they could agree to an extension after opting in and a deal is done but that kind of defeats the originally purpose of Randle's inclusion which is to be an expiring.

That does make a lot of sense. But maybe they understand that Minnesota wouldn't intend to extend them anyways due to being in the 2nd apron and Minnesota not being happy with how the KAT/ Randle turned out for him. And at least for Randle, he probably knows that he wouldn't get that $30 million in free agency in this current CBA climate. So he'll pick up the guaranteed money by picking up his option.

I mean technically BOTH should understand that right now no teams are really spending on free agents because most all NBA teams are saving their cap space for the big 26' NBA free agency bonanza when teams will be spending more after the cap rises too. So it would only make sense to pick up their options for this coming season and then cash in on the 26 summer free agency.

Because any teams that have saved money for that free agency and miss out on big names will likely overpay more for the leftovers, which would really benefit Randle and Reid under those conditions. I actually think BOTH playerswill chooseto pick up their options so they can cash in on 26' free agency.

[mkot]

That does make a lot of sense. But maybe they understand that Minnesota wouldn't intend to extend them anyways due to being in the 2nd apron and Minnesota not being happy with how the KAT/ Randle turned out for him. And at least for Randle, he probably knows that he wouldn't get that $30 million in free agency in this current CBA climate. So he'll pick up the guaranteed money by picking up his option.

They traded KAT for financial flexibility so they can extend Reid and keep the defensive pieces of Gobert and McDaniels around Edwards. I'm surprised they did not move NAW but they would definitely look to move Randle expiring this offseason once he picked up his PO, I imagine his value around the league is pretty low consider he's already 30 and is known to be a playoff flopper. They invested a lot on Dillingham so it's hard to imagine they'd let go of him early.

[Ghost of Kleine]

That does make a lot of sense. But maybe they understand that Minnesota wouldn't intend to extend them anyways due to being in the 2nd apron and Minnesota not being happy with how the KAT/ Randle turned out for him. And at least for Randle, he probably knows that he wouldn't get that $30 million in free agency in this current CBA climate. So he'll pick up the guaranteed money by picking up his option.

They traded KAT for financial flexibility so they can extend Reid and keep the defensive pieces of Gobert and McDaniels around Edwards. I'm surprised they did not move NAW but they would definitely look to move Randle expiring this offseason once he picked up his PO, I imagine his value around the league is pretty low consider he's already 30 and is known to be a playoff flopper. They invested a lot on Dillingham so it's hard to imagine they'd let go of him early.

All good points, but to get KD in Randles' place and run a lineup of:

Conley/ Edwards/ McDaniels/ Durant Gobert. I think they'd jump at that opportunity. Also important to ANT because he idolizes KD and the Wolves will likely do whatever they can to keep their franchise star player happy. Kind of how the suns made moves to satiate Booker. I absolutely think that a Randle/ Reid/ Dillingham/ picks package would be on the Table for KD if to Minnesota.

[Frank Lee]

So are we under the second apron or not?

[bwgood77]

In a more concise ( as promised) response to BWgoods' Keep Book/ quick reload by trading KD premise:

In keeping Booker and trying to remain competitive from whatever we get just trading KD and then making moves around the margins, which I can empathize with but would wholeheartedly do not endorse, as we'd still be hemorrhaging lottery value (picks) to teams like Houston and Washington) while not really becoming much better over the next couple of years anyways. But let's explore this premise a bit more to see if we can put frosting on a turd and call it a cupcake...LOL

KD to Minnesota (Quick reload premise)

Minnesota- KD.

Phoenix- Randle/ Reid/ Dillingham/ DET 25' 1ST (17TH PICK)/ MIN 32' 1st (similar value to our 31' 1st we gave up to Utah).

Booker/ Beal/ Dunn/ Randle/ Richards.
Beal/ Allen/ O'neale/ Ighodaro/ Reid.
Milicic/ Dillingham/ Martin/ Bol/ Ighodaro.

What can we do with Randle and Dillingham?
Randle represents a massive $30 million expiring we can just let run out for more cap flexibility OR we can look to trade him for another key veet player, etc. Plus we should be able to aggregate salaries once the cap increases and if any trade we do doesn't put us back over the 2nd apron. So I'd look at doing this (if trying to become more competitive now!! So we'll consider these trades this summer. Upon acquiring Randle/Reid/Dillingham jr/ DET 25' 1st (17th pick)/ MIN 32' 1st. We trade (draft night)
1- Dillingham Jr (lottery pick value- 8th pick)/ DET 25' 1st/ CLE 29' 1st to Brooklyn for the 19th, 24th, 27th picks. So we can now draft:
19- Rasheer Fleming PF ( 6'9 240 lbs 3+D 4/5).
24- Sergio de Larrea PG (6'6 218 lbs).
27- Carter Bryant SF/PF (6'8 220 lbs)
54- Kobe Brea SG ( 6'7 215 lb)
Undrafted Ranges ( G-League)
1- Zvonimr Ivisic. 7'2 PF/C
2- Vladislav Goldin 7'1 3+D center

2- Trade Randle/ Martin/ CLE 27' 1st/ CLE 29' 1st for Michael Porter Jr.
3- O'neale to Toronto for the Portland 25' 2nd ( 39th pick) or to Golden State for the MIA 2nd (40th pick). That will save us close to $10 million. Then we use the 39th or 40th pick on Myles Byrd (to replace O'neale). **** Buy out Milicic, and trade Allen to Orlando for Bidatze. Now our roster for next season becomes: (shaves $21 million off our cap totals!)

Booker/ Beal/ Dunn/ Porter Jr/ Richards.
Morris/Trent Jr/ Bryant/ Reid/ Bidatze.
Larrea/ Brea/ Byrd/ Fleming/ Ighodaro.

In trading O'neale for a 2nd, moving Allen for Bidatze, And waiving/ buying out Milicic, we've now effectively cut around $21 million from our cap line while upgrading various positions, getting much younger and more athletic, and adding significant size to our roster. Our roster is also flush with athletic 3&D wings, forwards, and 4/5s. We'll be out from under the 2nd apron and very possibly the first apron too, and will be able to make a wide range of moves as needed. So we can add vets and do key trades as needed.

I would start Randle and Reid. Reid is not a great rebounder but is a solid 3 pt shooter. But Randle can rebound. Nick Richards is really not a starting caliber C if you want to be competitive.

Then I would look for a C in the draft this year if possible, or maybe pick one up in the offseason for the minimum (less likely). Or trade Allen or O'Neal for a decent C. Some teams have C depth but need shooters/wing players.

[Ghost of Kleine]

So are we under the second apron or not?

Well, The 2nd apron line is $188 million and we're currently sitting at around $ 212 million.

After dumping Nurkic, we're about $24 million over the 2nd apron, so if we could offload Allen or Oneale and then buyout one of Martin or Milicic, we'd in theory drop below by a few million. But then Our big threes increases would likely put us right back over the line a bit.

However, depending upon how much the cap rises, we could still end up below by doing some combination of the above?

[Puff]

Yall so infatuated with blowing this team up that you forget who is running the show.

scv

Yep
The only thing to discuss is who will be our 4th head coach in 4 years and what minimum free agents Ish is going to masquerade as our new starting center and Point guard.

He will not trade KD or Book and cannot trade Beal. We are also stuck with overpaid O'Neale and Allen.

Unfortunately, I do not think our owner will make any of the suggested changes, even though he should.

[Puff]

The only thing that can save us is a massive decrease in season ticket sales for 25/26. I am not sure that will even affect Matt's decisions.

He will probably offer $1.50 hot dogs and a coke like Costco in the hopes of saving this franchise.

[Ghost of Kleine]

Spoiler:

In a more concise ( as promised) response to BWgoods' Keep Book/ quick reload by trading KD premise:

In keeping Booker and trying to remain competitive from whatever we get just trading KD and then making moves around the margins, which I can empathize with but would wholeheartedly do not endorse, as we'd still be hemorrhaging lottery value (picks) to teams like Houston and Washington) while not really becoming much better over the next couple of years anyways. But let's explore this premise a bit more to see if we can put frosting on a turd and call it a cupcake...LOL

KD to Minnesota (Quick reload premise)

Minnesota- KD.

Phoenix- Randle/ Reid/ Dillingham/ DET 25' 1ST (17TH PICK)/ MIN 32' 1st (similar value to our 31' 1st we gave up to Utah).

Booker/ Beal/ Dunn/ Randle/ Richards.
Beal/ Allen/ O'neale/ Ighodaro/ Reid.
Milicic/ Dillingham/ Martin/ Bol/ Ighodaro.

What can we do with Randle and Dillingham?
Randle represents a massive $30 million expiring we can just let run out for more cap flexibility OR we can look to trade him for another key veet player, etc. Plus we should be able to aggregate salaries once the cap increases and if any trade we do doesn't put us back over the 2nd apron. So I'd look at doing this (if trying to become more competitive now!! So we'll consider these trades this summer. Upon acquiring Randle/Reid/Dillingham jr/ DET 25' 1st (17th pick)/ MIN 32' 1st. We trade (draft night)
1- Dillingham Jr (lottery pick value- 8th pick)/ DET 25' 1st/ CLE 29' 1st to Brooklyn for the 19th, 24th, 27th picks. So we can now draft:
19- Rasheer Fleming PF ( 6'9 240 lbs 3+D 4/5).
24- Sergio de Larrea PG (6'6 218 lbs).
27- Carter Bryant SF/PF (6'8 220 lbs)
54- Kobe Brea SG ( 6'7 215 lb)
Undrafted Ranges ( G-League)
1- Zvonimr Ivisic. 7'2 PF/C
2- Vladislav Goldin 7'1 3+D center

2- Trade Randle/ Martin/ CLE 27' 1st/ CLE 29' 1st for Michael Porter Jr.
3- O'neale to Toronto for the Portland 25' 2nd ( 39th pick) or to Golden State for the MIA 2nd (40th pick). That will save us close to $10 million. Then we use the 39th or 40th pick on Myles Byrd (to replace O'neale). **** Buy out Milicic, and trade Allen to Orlando for Bidatze. Now our roster for next season becomes: (shaves $21 million off our cap totals!)

Booker/ Beal/ Dunn/ Porter Jr/ Richards.
Morris/Trent Jr/ Bryant/ Reid/ Bidatze.
Larrea/ Brea/ Byrd/ Fleming/ Ighodaro.

In trading O'neale for a 2nd, moving Allen for Bidatze, And waiving/ buying out Milicic, we've now effectively cut around $21 million from our cap line while upgrading various positions, getting much younger and more athletic, and adding significant size to our roster. Our roster is also flush with athletic 3&D wings, forwards, and 4/5s. We'll be out from under the 2nd apron and very possibly the first apron too, and will be able to make a wide range of moves as needed. So we can add vets and do key trades as needed.

I would start Randle and Reid. Reid is not a great rebounder but is a solid 3 pt shooter. But Randle can rebound. Nick Richards is really not a starting caliber C if you want to be competitive.

Then I would look for a C in the draft this year if possible, or maybe pick one up in the offseason for the minimum (less likely). Or trade Allen or O'Neal for a decent C. Some teams have C depth but need shooters/wing players.

Would you consider trading Allen to Orlando then for WCJr if also getting back the Denver 25' 1st allowing us to now have the 25 and 29th pick? So we could draft Fleming at 25, and Beringer at 29? You're already familiar with Fleming being a solid backup 4/5 that can do it all and hit the three at a good rate. Or you could just look at trading Allen for Bidatze/ small filler straight up IF you think that Bidatze is a starting-level center. could he be a floor spacer for Randle at the 4? Either way, I believe that Randle and Reid would both pick up their POs to become unrestricted free agents in 26' free agency. So they'd likely just be rentals for next season, or better as expiring trade options. Also, would you consider this expanded trade (Orlando):

Allen/ Richards to Orlando for WCJ/ Bidatze/ DENVER 25' 1st (25th pick)/ Orlando 2nd (44th pick). They'll still keep their 16th and 57th picks too. But this would give us a strong center rotation of WCJr and Bidatze. AND in getting the 25th and 44th picks, we'd now have the 25th, 29th, 44th, and 54th picks to load up on cost-controlled talent. then draft:
25- Fleming.
29- Bryant.
44- Grunloh.
54- Brea.
So our roster would become

Booker/ Beal/ Dunn/ Randle/ WCJr.
Morris/ Trent Jr/ O'neale/ Reid/ Bidatze.
Milicic/ Brea/ Bryant/Fleming/ Ighodaro.

(Grunloh in the G League for development).
**Johan Grunloh is a 6'11 center with a 7'5 wingspan and good mobility, fluidity, and vertical pop, and can recover well and hit the three well too. Or IF you're willing to pass on Carter Bryant, then just draft Jo'an Beringer at 29, as he's really close to what both Ware and Missi are in terms of elite athletic tools, length, vertical pop, and fluidity. He's just young and kind of raw and will need time to develop more and add strength. Currently though, I'm leaning towards Carter Bryant at 29 for his two-way versatility/ potential as a big wing (SF/PF).

But I think he does absolutely land somewhere between Ware and Missi as he develops further. He's currently slated to go in the very early 2nd round. But might jump into the mid to late first as more scouts take notice of his elite tools.
Ideally, we could trade KD to one of:

1- San Antonio

Spoiler:

( Wemby gushed about him too during the All-star game, and of course Pop coached him to 2 gold medals). KD for Vassell/ Barnes/ Sochan/ 2 1sts. Barnes is a 19 million expiring, and Sochan is a 7 million TO (expiring) basically)?? I'd look to keep Vassell (or trade him), Trade Barnes 19 million expiring, and keep /trade Sochan. Maybe look at trading a package of Barnes/ Martin/ 2 CLE 1sts (27,29) for Michael Porter Jr. and still do the Allen/ O'neale trade. This would give us a Lineup of:

Booker/ Beal/Vassell/ Porter Jr/ WCJr.
Beal/ Dunn/ Bryant/ Fleming/ Bidatze.
Milicic/ Brea/ Sochan/ Bol/ Ighodaro.

Picks
-15th (ATL 25 1st) from San Antonio.
-25th (DEN 25 1st) from Orlando.
- 29th (CLE 25' 1st) from Utah.
-44th (Orlando 25' 2nd) from Orlando.
54th ( DEN 25' 2nd) from Charlotte.
** DAL or MIN 31' 1st from San Antonio.

2- Minnesota.

Spoiler:

KD for the Randle package with Reid, Dillingham and the DET 1st ( 17th pick) and the MIN 32' 1st. Randle being a 30 Million expiring, and Reid a 13 million ( IF NEITHER resign and opt for the huge 26' summer free agency)?? And while it would suck to lose both for our competitive interests, they'd represent about 43 million in cap reduction if they didn't resign. KD for Randle/ Reid/ Dillingham/ DET 25' 1st (17th pick)/ MIN 32' 1st. Maybe package Dillingham/ 17th pick to Brooklyn for the 19th and 24th picks giving us the 19, 24, 29, and 54th picks to be used as:
19- Fleming.
24- Larrea.
29- Bryant.
54- Brea.

Do the Allen/ O'neale trade, and then trade Randles' expiring and Martins' expiring to Denver for Michael Porter Jr.
Booker/ Beal/ Dunn/ Porter Jr/ WCJr.
Beal/ Dunn/ Bryant/ Reid / Bidatze.
Larrea/ Brea/FA / Fleming/ Ighodaro.

** Waive/buy out Milicic.

3- Milwaukee.

Spoiler:

KD for Kuzma ( keeper), Portis (13 million expiring), and Connaughton ( 9 million expiring). And then of course you'd get the young assets/ picks in KPJr, Andre Jackson, and Tyler Smith/ MIL 31' 1st. Kuzma (21 million-keep), Portis (13 million expiring)- keep/trade, Connaughton (9 million expiring)- trade, and the young cost-controlled talent and pick. Kevin Porter Jr- keep, Andre Jackson- keep, and Tyler Smith- Keep. Still trade Allen/ O'neale to Orlando for WCJr/ Bidatze/ DEN 25' 1st (25th pick) and small filler.
25- Fleming.
29- Carter Bryant.
44- Grunloh.
54- Breah.

Booker/ Beal/ Dunn/ Kuzma/ WCJr.
Milicic/ Trent Jr/ Bryant/ Portis/ Bidatze.
KPJr / Brea/ Jackson/ Fleming/ Ighodaro.

Undrafted two-way prospects
1- Tyler Smith (Milwaukee trade) 6'11 versatile 4/5 Jabari Smith Jr clone.
2- Kanon Catchings (BYU). 6'9 versatile Cam Johnson clone.
3- Zvonimir Ivisic. (Arkansas) 7'2 Aldama/Porzingis 4/5 3+D center.

[bwgood77]

Spoiler:

In a more concise ( as promised) response to BWgoods' Keep Book/ quick reload by trading KD premise:

In keeping Booker and trying to remain competitive from whatever we get just trading KD and then making moves around the margins, which I can empathize with but would wholeheartedly do not endorse, as we'd still be hemorrhaging lottery value (picks) to teams like Houston and Washington) while not really becoming much better over the next couple of years anyways. But let's explore this premise a bit more to see if we can put frosting on a turd and call it a cupcake...LOL

KD to Minnesota (Quick reload premise)

Minnesota- KD.

Phoenix- Randle/ Reid/ Dillingham/ DET 25' 1ST (17TH PICK)/ MIN 32' 1st (similar value to our 31' 1st we gave up to Utah).

Booker/ Beal/ Dunn/ Randle/ Richards.
Beal/ Allen/ O'neale/ Ighodaro/ Reid.
Milicic/ Dillingham/ Martin/ Bol/ Ighodaro.

What can we do with Randle and Dillingham?
Randle represents a massive $30 million expiring we can just let run out for more cap flexibility OR we can look to trade him for another key veet player, etc. Plus we should be able to aggregate salaries once the cap increases and if any trade we do doesn't put us back over the 2nd apron. So I'd look at doing this (if trying to become more competitive now!! So we'll consider these trades this summer. Upon acquiring Randle/Reid/Dillingham jr/ DET 25' 1st (17th pick)/ MIN 32' 1st. We trade (draft night)
1- Dillingham Jr (lottery pick value- 8th pick)/ DET 25' 1st/ CLE 29' 1st to Brooklyn for the 19th, 24th, 27th picks. So we can now draft:
19- Rasheer Fleming PF ( 6'9 240 lbs 3+D 4/5).
24- Sergio de Larrea PG (6'6 218 lbs).
27- Carter Bryant SF/PF (6'8 220 lbs)
54- Kobe Brea SG ( 6'7 215 lb)
Undrafted Ranges ( G-League)
1- Zvonimr Ivisic. 7'2 PF/C
2- Vladislav Goldin 7'1 3+D center

2- Trade Randle/ Martin/ CLE 27' 1st/ CLE 29' 1st for Michael Porter Jr.
3- O'neale to Toronto for the Portland 25' 2nd ( 39th pick) or to Golden State for the MIA 2nd (40th pick). That will save us close to $10 million. Then we use the 39th or 40th pick on Myles Byrd (to replace O'neale). **** Buy out Milicic, and trade Allen to Orlando for Bidatze. Now our roster for next season becomes: (shaves $21 million off our cap totals!)

Booker/ Beal/ Dunn/ Porter Jr/ Richards.
Morris/Trent Jr/ Bryant/ Reid/ Bidatze.
Larrea/ Brea/ Byrd/ Fleming/ Ighodaro.

In trading O'neale for a 2nd, moving Allen for Bidatze, And waiving/ buying out Milicic, we've now effectively cut around $21 million from our cap line while upgrading various positions, getting much younger and more athletic, and adding significant size to our roster. Our roster is also flush with athletic 3&D wings, forwards, and 4/5s. We'll be out from under the 2nd apron and very possibly the first apron too, and will be able to make a wide range of moves as needed. So we can add vets and do key trades as needed.

I would start Randle and Reid. Reid is not a great rebounder but is a solid 3 pt shooter. But Randle can rebound. Nick Richards is really not a starting caliber C if you want to be competitive.

Then I would look for a C in the draft this year if possible, or maybe pick one up in the offseason for the minimum (less likely). Or trade Allen or O'Neal for a decent C. Some teams have C depth but need shooters/wing players.

Would you consider trading Allen to Orlando then for WCJr if also getting back the Denver 25' 1st allowing us to now have the 25 and 29th pick? So we could draft Fleming at 25, and Beringer at 29? You're already familiar with Fleming being a solid backup 4/5 that can do it all and hit the three at a good rate. Or you could just look at trading Allen for Bidatze/ small filler straight up IF you think that Bidatze is a starting-level center. could he be a floor spacer for Randle at the 4? Either way, I believe that Randle and Reid would both pick up their POs to become unrestricted free agents in 26' free agency. So they'd likely just be rentals for next season, or better as expiring trade options. Also, would you consider this expanded trade (Orlando):

Allen/ Richards to Orlando for WCJ/ Bidatze/ DENVER 25' 1st (25th pick)/ Orlando 2nd (44th pick). They'll still keep their 16th and 57th picks too. But this would give us a strong center rotation of WCJr and Bidatze. AND in getting the 25th and 44th picks, we'd now have the 25th, 29th, 44th, and 54th picks to load up on cost-controlled talent. then draft:
25- Fleming.
29- Bryant.
44- Grunloh.
54- Brea.
So our roster would become

Booker/ Beal/ Dunn/ Randle/ WCJr.
Morris/ Trent Jr/ O'neale/ Reid/ Bidatze.
Milicic/ Brea/ Bryant/Fleming/ Ighodaro.

(Grunloh in the G League for development).
**Johan Grunloh is a 6'11 center with a 7'5 wingspan and good mobility, fluidity, and vertical pop, and can recover well and hit the three well too. Or IF you're willing to pass on Carter Bryant, then just draft Jo'an Beringer at 29, as he's really close to what both Ware and Missi are in terms of elite athletic tools, length, vertical pop, and fluidity. He's just young and kind of raw and will need time to develop more and add strength. Currently though, I'm leaning towards Carter Bryant at 29 for his two-way versatility/ potential as a big wing (SF/PF).

But I think he does absolutely land somewhere between Ware and Missi as he develops further. He's currently slated to go in the very early 2nd round. But might jump into the mid to late first as more scouts take notice of his elite tools.
Ideally, we could trade KD to one of:

1- San Antonio

Spoiler:

( Wemby gushed about him too during the All-star game, and of course Pop coached him to 2 gold medals). KD for Vassell/ Barnes/ Sochan/ 2 1sts. Barnes is a 19 million expiring, and Sochan is a 7 million TO (expiring) basically)?? I'd look to keep Vassell (or trade him), Trade Barnes 19 million expiring, and keep /trade Sochan. Maybe look at trading a package of Barnes/ Martin/ 2 CLE 1sts (27,29) for Michael Porter Jr. and still do the Allen/ O'neale trade. This would give us a Lineup of:

Booker/ Beal/Vassell/ Porter Jr/ WCJr.
Beal/ Dunn/ Bryant/ Fleming/ Bidatze.
Milicic/ Brea/ Sochan/ Bol/ Ighodaro.

Picks
-15th (ATL 25 1st) from San Antonio.
-25th (DEN 25 1st) from Orlando.
- 29th (CLE 25' 1st) from Utah.
-44th (Orlando 25' 2nd) from Orlando.
54th ( DEN 25' 2nd) from Charlotte.
** DAL or MIN 31' 1st from San Antonio.

2- Minnesota.

Spoiler:

KD for the Randle package with Reid, Dillingham and the DET 1st ( 17th pick) and the MIN 32' 1st. Randle being a 30 Million expiring, and Reid a 13 million ( IF NEITHER resign and opt for the huge 26' summer free agency)?? And while it would suck to lose both for our competitive interests, they'd represent about 43 million in cap reduction if they didn't resign. KD for Randle/ Reid/ Dillingham/ DET 25' 1st (17th pick)/ MIN 32' 1st. Maybe package Dillingham/ 17th pick to Brooklyn for the 19th and 24th picks giving us the 19, 24, 29, and 54th picks to be used as:
19- Fleming.
24- Larrea.
29- Bryant.
54- Brea.

Do the Allen/ O'neale trade, and then trade Randles' expiring and Martins' expiring to Denver for Michael Porter Jr.
Booker/ Beal/ Dunn/ Porter Jr/ WCJr.
Beal/ Dunn/ Bryant/ Reid / Bidatze.
Larrea/ Brea/FA / Fleming/ Ighodaro.

** Waive/buy out Milicic.

3- Milwaukee.

Spoiler:

KD for Kuzma ( keeper), Portis (13 million expiring), and Connaughton ( 9 million expiring). And then of course you'd get the young assets/ picks in KPJr, Andre Jackson, and Tyler Smith/ MIL 31' 1st. Kuzma (21 million-keep), Portis (13 million expiring)- keep/trade, Connaughton (9 million expiring)- trade, and the young cost-controlled talent and pick. Kevin Porter Jr- keep, Andre Jackson- keep, and Tyler Smith- Keep. Still trade Allen/ O'neale to Orlando for WCJr/ Bidatze/ DEN 25' 1st (25th pick) and small filler.
25- Fleming.
29- Carter Bryant.
44- Grunloh.
54- Breah.

Booker/ Beal/ Dunn/ Kuzma/ WCJr.
Milicic/ Trent Jr/ Bryant/ Portis/ Bidatze.
KPJr / Brea/ Jackson/ Fleming/ Ighodaro.

Undrafted two-way prospects
1- Tyler Smith (Milwaukee trade) 6'11 versatile 4/5 Jabari Smith Jr clone.
2- Kanon Catchings (BYU). 6'9 versatile Cam Johnson clone.
3- Zvonimir Ivisic. (Arkansas) 7'2 Aldama/Porzingis 4/5 3+D center.

Maybe. I don't think WCJ is the answer but he might help more. But as I understand, Orlando likes him quite a bit. We need to look at 2nd or 3rd stringers on teams that have C depth and may need shooting. Atlanta keeps starting Capela but at some point I imagine they have to go with Okongwu and if not I'd love to go for him. Heck, Larry Nance at C would be better than anything we have.

NIc Claxton is the most glaringly obvious candidate, but they wouldn't want an old guy. Honestly though, I'd trade Dunn and a pick for Claxton.

Hard to find something that works though. Allen and O'Neale work, or maybe Allen and Cody Martin if his team option is picked up. Or Micic if his team option was picked up (unless you can trade him before that decision is made). You can always throw Dunn in because they could take back more salary.

Then they could deal him to a 3rd team for a pick maybe. Or maybe we deal Allen to a 3rd team, Dunn to Brooklyn and the 3rd team sends a pick to Brooklyn. We'd need more filler though because we have to take back $25 million in salary.

Claxton has a great contract though. It is declining. Only $20 mill in year 4 (this year it started at over $27 million).

[lilfishi22]

For sure you're right man! Everything is difficult bring in the 2nd apron man. They'd have to cut maybe $ 17 million over the 2nd apron, and could really to do the KD trade, but they'd need to salary dump Conley and DiVincenzo or buyout Conley and then trade DiVincenzo for a future pick. Then they'd be like 4 million under and the Randle trade that I suggested would be almost "dollar for dollar" match. definitely difficult, but not at all impossible. I could see a number of teams willing to take DiVincenzo into space. Really any of Golden State, Toronto, San Antonio, or maybe Orlando? Regardless, if KD is available and willing to go to Minnesota to play with Edwards, then I can't see Conley or even DiVincenzo holding up a trade. Especially not considering the infatuation Edwards has with KD and the mutual interest shared between both players too.

Or really, If they wanted to get far enough under the 2nd apron to still do the trade and keep DiVincenzo, they could alternatively just choose to buyout Conley and Shannon Jr, then just decline Garzas' and Minotts' team options and be far enough under the 2nd apron to be able to do the KD trade and still keep DiVincenzo. Although they may not want to keep their 25' picks because those would add a few million back again and put them over the 2nd apron yet again. Much the same reason they'd have to trade Randle and Reid together as both have increases next season.

It's really difficult because there's a lot that is out of Minny's hands. For example you need Randle and Reid to both opt-in when there's little reason for them to. It's not like trading an expiring deal because they've technically already expired at this point post the trade deadline. So you're asking them to forego an extension, pick up a one year option, only to be traded. Why would they want to do that if they could get a mult-year extension now. That's without all the 2nd apron restrictions.

Now they could agree to an extension after opting in and a deal is done but that kind of defeats the originally purpose of Randle's inclusion which is to be an expiring.

That does make a lot of sense. But maybe they understand that Minnesota wouldn't intend to extend them anyways due to being in the 2nd apron and Minnesota not being happy with how the KAT/ Randle turned out for him. And at least for Randle, he probably knows that he wouldn't get that $30 million in free agency in this current CBA climate. So he'll pick up the guaranteed money by picking up his option.

I mean technically BOTH should understand that right now no teams are really spending on free agents because most all NBA teams are saving their cap space for the big 26' NBA free agency bonanza when teams will be spending more after the cap rises too. So it would only make sense to pick up their options for this coming season and then cash in on the 26 summer free agency.

Because any teams that have saved money for that free agency and miss out on big names will likely overpay more for the leftovers, which would really benefit Randle and Reid under those conditions. I actually think BOTH playerswill chooseto pick up their options so they can cash in on 26' free agency.

I don't know what the Wolves plan is for Randle. They made a big call moving KAT for Randle so I would think they want to retain him. Given there isn't a ton of money in the market this offseason, it wouldn't surprise me if they sign him to short but slightly bigger deal to go back to the Wolves.

But yeah, I don't know Minny's plan. They are a 2nd apron team now and not too dissimilar to us, have been disappointing this season and they also moved a lot of picks to get Gobert so their draft cupboard isn't too full either. They probably would want to avoid big tax bills and being restricted by the 2nd apron so if they do retain Reid and Randle, they probably will need to move someone like McDaniels because their front court of Randle/Gobert/JMac hasn't really worked that well and because McDaniels ain't cheap.

[bwgood77]

It's really difficult because there's a lot that is out of Minny's hands. For example you need Randle and Reid to both opt-in when there's little reason for them to. It's not like trading an expiring deal because they've technically already expired at this point post the trade deadline. So you're asking them to forego an extension, pick up a one year option, only to be traded. Why would they want to do that if they could get a mult-year extension now. That's without all the 2nd apron restrictions.

Now they could agree to an extension after opting in and a deal is done but that kind of defeats the originally purpose of Randle's inclusion which is to be an expiring.

That does make a lot of sense. But maybe they understand that Minnesota wouldn't intend to extend them anyways due to being in the 2nd apron and Minnesota not being happy with how the KAT/ Randle turned out for him. And at least for Randle, he probably knows that he wouldn't get that $30 million in free agency in this current CBA climate. So he'll pick up the guaranteed money by picking up his option.

I mean technically BOTH should understand that right now no teams are really spending on free agents because most all NBA teams are saving their cap space for the big 26' NBA free agency bonanza when teams will be spending more after the cap rises too. So it would only make sense to pick up their options for this coming season and then cash in on the 26 summer free agency.

Because any teams that have saved money for that free agency and miss out on big names will likely overpay more for the leftovers, which would really benefit Randle and Reid under those conditions. I actually think BOTH playerswill chooseto pick up their options so they can cash in on 26' free agency.

I don't know what the Wolves plan is for Randle. They made a big call moving KAT for Randle so I would think they want to retain him. Given there isn't a ton of money in the market this offseason, it wouldn't surprise me if they sign him to short but slightly bigger deal to go back to the Wolves.

But yeah, I don't know Minny's plan. They are a 2nd apron team now and not too dissimilar to us, have been disappointing this season and they also moved a lot of picks to get Gobert so their draft cupboard isn't too full either. They probably would want to avoid big tax bills and being restricted by the 2nd apron so if they do retain Reid and Randle, they probably will need to move someone like McDaniels because their front court of Randle/Gobert/JMac hasn't really worked that well and because McDaniels ain't cheap.

I'll be pretty surprised if they keep Randle. They moved KAT because their roster was way too expensive, and Randle was expiring. Also, Naz Reid will command a lot more. Oh, I guess they have player options. They would probably love it if Randle opted out. Naz may opt out because I think he could make a lot more.

[lilfishi22]

So are we under the second apron or not?

Well, The 2nd apron line is $188 million and we're currently sitting at around $ 212 million.

After dumping Nurkic, we're about $24 million over the 2nd apron, so if we could offload Allen or Oneale and then buyout one of Martin or Milicic, we'd in theory drop below by a few million. But then Our big threes increases would likely put us right back over the line a bit.

However, depending upon how much the cap rises, we could still end up below by doing some combination of the above?

We don't need to buy out Martin or Micic because both are expiring/non-guaranteed which I fully expect we'll let them go for nothing. 2nd Apron line is expected to be at $207.8m at the start of the offseason and without Martin or Micic, we'll be sitting at around $202m. But we'll need to add 6-7 vet min guys at around $2.2m to meet the roster requirements so that alone is going to take us back over the 2nd apron.

In essence we will most likely continue to be a 2nd apron team, unless we move KD to a team that can absorb a chunk of his salary. Teams under the 1st apron can absorb up to 125% (+100k) of incoming salary. So if we moved KD, we could take back as little as $43m in salary or a net reduction of around $10m in salary. Obviously teams with cap space can take on more and give back less but I'd say most teams who want KD are probably operating well above the salary cap. Grayson and O'Neal are certainly candidates too.

If we don't have a mandate to get under the 2nd apron, perhaps we could give team some potential relief by using Micic/Martin as an expiring for some draft capital

[lilfishi22]

That does make a lot of sense. But maybe they understand that Minnesota wouldn't intend to extend them anyways due to being in the 2nd apron and Minnesota not being happy with how the KAT/ Randle turned out for him. And at least for Randle, he probably knows that he wouldn't get that $30 million in free agency in this current CBA climate. So he'll pick up the guaranteed money by picking up his option.

I mean technically BOTH should understand that right now no teams are really spending on free agents because most all NBA teams are saving their cap space for the big 26' NBA free agency bonanza when teams will be spending more after the cap rises too. So it would only make sense to pick up their options for this coming season and then cash in on the 26 summer free agency.

Because any teams that have saved money for that free agency and miss out on big names will likely overpay more for the leftovers, which would really benefit Randle and Reid under those conditions. I actually think BOTH playerswill chooseto pick up their options so they can cash in on 26' free agency.

I don't know what the Wolves plan is for Randle. They made a big call moving KAT for Randle so I would think they want to retain him. Given there isn't a ton of money in the market this offseason, it wouldn't surprise me if they sign him to short but slightly bigger deal to go back to the Wolves.

But yeah, I don't know Minny's plan. They are a 2nd apron team now and not too dissimilar to us, have been disappointing this season and they also moved a lot of picks to get Gobert so their draft cupboard isn't too full either. They probably would want to avoid big tax bills and being restricted by the 2nd apron so if they do retain Reid and Randle, they probably will need to move someone like McDaniels because their front court of Randle/Gobert/JMac hasn't really worked that well and because McDaniels ain't cheap.

I'll be pretty surprised if they keep Randle. They moved KAT because their roster was way too expensive, and Randle was expiring. Also, Naz Reid will command a lot more. Oh, I guess they have player options. They would probably love it if Randle opted out. Naz may opt out because I think he could make a lot more.

Yeah I don't know their thinking. I just think essentially salary dumping KAT is a tough sell and that's pretty much what it'll be if they don't come to an agreement with Randle to come back. Maybe that's exactly what they want but for the fanbase, it's rough. But I also get it if that's what's up. They aren't playing to expectations this year, Randle has been a bit mid, the rest of the team outside of Ant has either stagnated in terms of development or have taken a step back.

[Frank Lee]

Apparently, Second apron in 25/26 will be $207 mill…so we’ll be 12 mill over. To get under we have to wrap a pick around Martin, send him out for a second and cut Micic… but then we only have a few to trade and for who? This is assuming Wishbia keeps his cream team together. Not sure that makes sense. We can’t acquire a sign and traded player due to apron rules. And we will likely be above the second apron again after we fill out the roster. What a mess it still is. I keep saying it, I don’t think they will blow it up as these side moves with Micic Martin and the picks look like attempts to tinker. And frankly, Book deserves one more attempt. He is the most front office shttt on player in the league.

My bet is down on DLo as one addition… at least Book would be less grim.

[lilfishi22]

Apparently, Second apron in 25/26 will be $207 mill…so we’ll be 12 mill over. To get under we have to wrap a pick around Martin, send him out for a second and cut Micic… but then we only have a few to trade and for who? This is assuming Wishbia keeps his cream team together. Not sure that makes sense. We can’t acquire a sign and traded player due to apron rules. And we will likely be above the second apron again after we fill out the roster. What a mess it still is. I keep saying it, I don’t think they will blow it up as these side moves with Micic Martin and the picks look like attempts to tinker. And frankly, Book deserves one more attempt. He is the most front office shttt on player in the league.

My bet is down on DLo as one addition… at least Book would be less grim.

Martin is a team option and Micic is non-guaranteed, so neither guys will cost anything to cut from the roster. If not the Big 3, we'll only have Grayson and Royce as two guys we could trade in a salary move to make a dent in our salary situation.

At the end of the day the Big 3 together will be sitting on $161m in guaranteed salary and at minimum we'll be requiring another 11 players (at around $2m each) to make the roster is already going to set us at a baseline of $185-$190m. That alone would get us close the 1st apron and that's without the fairly average salaries of Grayson and Royce (or Richards) in place of those vet minimums.

[Ghost of Kleine]

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[They_Them_Hatin]

I think Beal will be more movable with 2 years left.
I don’t see the KD trade being worth while. I would try and move Beal first. They harassed the wrong GM in Florida for months. Should’ve been harassing Orlando’s GM instead. They keep drafting their replacements and have a lot of depth.

Beal for KCP+Cole+Goga or WCJ & Jett. Orlando needs a scorer, Suns need depth and a competent center. Plus they all expire at the same time. Orlando moves nothing of value if Ja becomes available and have picks 16 & 25 to replace their depth. Beal goes to a contender in a warm tax free state.

Suns
PG Free agent/Cole
SG Booker/KCP/Grayson
SF Dunn/Royce/Jett
PF KD/ Bol Bol
C Goga or WCJ/Richards/Oso


Nurkic trade got us out the 2nd apron so we can combine contracts.