Suns Offseason Thread V: I Am My Brother's Kieffer

[ImNotMcDiSwear]

I am not worried at all because Markieff ' s production on the court can be replaced easily. And on the locker room all will be better without him. I want to grab some prospect / good player ( Cody Zeller for example) or a decent pick and go to the season. If we need to add that Cavs pick it wouldn't be a big loss.

It can't be replaced that easily. I'm sure we've been trying. Damn Aldridge and that guy that talked him into SA.

Markieff is not a game changer, we are gonna be fine without him.

If we don't adquire a good PF via trade, we can put Warren and Tucker on the starting five. Tucker is better defending PFs than Markieff....he is more agresive, can switch better, better rebounder and faster.
Warren will defend SFs, but offensively he can play around the paint and he will put better numbers than Markieff. Playing around 30 minutes per game he can put 15/6 in his sleep.

I've thought about this arrangement quite a bit. The one thing that concerns me is that I can't really see Tucker as the roll man in the P&R, which means we'll be running our offense through Knight/Bled and Chandler/Len the entire game - with Teletovic as P&P option thrown in. Also, no real post up option without Keef - though how much that hurts, I don't know. One thing that would really help is if Tucker learns to shoot the 3 from the top of the key. That way we could do a solid pick-and-pop up top with him. To now, he's really only mastered the corners. Overall, though, I think this probably is the way to go.

[bigfoot]

I am not worried at all because Markieff ' s production on the court can be replaced easily. And on the locker room all will be better without him. I want to grab some prospect / good player ( Cody Zeller for example) or a decent pick and go to the season. If we need to add that Cavs pick it wouldn't be a big loss.

It can't be replaced that easily. I'm sure we've been trying. Damn Aldridge and that guy that talked him into SA.

Markieff is not a game changer, we are gonna be fine without him.

If we don't adquire a good PF via trade, we can put Warren and Tucker on the starting five. Tucker is better defending PFs than Markieff....he is more agresive, can switch better, better rebounder and faster.
Warren will defend SFs, but offensively he can play around the paint and he will put better numbers than Markieff. Playing around 30 minutes per game he can put 15/6 in his sleep.

I'm growing to like the idea of Tucker playing PF if we can't find a reasonable replacement for Kief. PJ has the body type to guard bigger PFs. His long arms will help to keep many from shooting over the top. His lateral quickness will stop any of the few PFs who can drive around him. He has a nose for the ball and will rebound at a better rate than Markieff. He actually shoots the three better than Kief. Certainly not the classic tall stretch 4 but hell he's guarded Durant and Griffin on many occasions who are both about 6'10". Problem is we lose him as a defensive stopper on Harden and other SGs and SFs which puts a lot of pressure on Knight and Warren.

Bledsoe / Price
Knight / Goodwin or Booker
Warren / Weems
Tucker / Teletovic or Leuer
Chandler / Len

[Saberestar]

It can't be replaced that easily. I'm sure we've been trying. Damn Aldridge and that guy that talked him into SA.

Markieff is not a game changer, we are gonna be fine without him.

If we don't adquire a good PF via trade, we can put Warren and Tucker on the starting five. Tucker is better defending PFs than Markieff....he is more agresive, can switch better, better rebounder and faster.
Warren will defend SFs, but offensively he can play around the paint and he will put better numbers than Markieff. Playing around 30 minutes per game he can put 15/6 in his sleep.

I've thought about this arrangement quite a bit. The one thing that concerns me is that I can't really see Tucker as the roll man in the P&R, which means we'll be running our offense through Knight/Bled and Chandler/Len the entire game - with Teletovic as P&P option thrown in. Also, no real post up option without Keef - though how much that hurts, I don't know. One thing that would really help is if Tucker learns to shoot the 3 from the top of the key. That way we could do a solid pick-and-pop up top with him. To now, he's really only mastered the corners. Overall, though, I think this probably is the way to go.

Have you ever seen Markieff rolling hard to the rim after a P&R? No problem here.

[bwgood77]

Spoiler:

YES!!!! FrankLo said I can continue to make pain-med-induced trade proposals! So, here's today's installment!

jcSunsFan--no need to comment on how tragically bad these ideas are, I know...just move along and save yourself the ire and irritation you'll feel by perusing these! That said, let's proceed!

http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=q5e72de

PHX In: Horford
ATL In: Kieff, Len

Horford has just a year left on his deal, so while this looks lopsided for us, we'd have to pay him in the offseason. Is he good enough to take us where we want to go? Probably not, and I'd hate to trade Len away, but there are those on this board that would prefer 'established' over 'developing', so this trade idea is for that crowd.

http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=q76hucf

PHX In: Porzingis, J. Grant
NYK In: Kieff, 2016 1st Rd pick (unprotected)

Now, hear me out. The Knicks get a PF they can use now, before Melo retires, and a potential lottery draft pick next season. We get another development body for our rebuild, and we could actually use a decent development PG, believe it or not.



http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=nn3nphv

PHX In: Ilyasova, Drummond
DET In: Kieff, Len, 2016 1st Rd Pick-Unprotected, 2019 1st Rd Pick-Lottery Protected

Another trade idea that's lopsided in our favor, hence the unprotected 1st next season, which with Drummond, would likely not be in the lottery. So we add the 2019 pick, which I believe is the year we receive the first of Miami's 1st Rd picks owed to us. That leaves us with 2016-Clev 1st, 2017-our 1st, 2018-our 1st, 2019-Heat's 1st--so we still retain a 1st Rd pick in each year. Time to use these picks as trade fodder, IMO, especially if it nets us a star Center.

http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=qhrqdco

PHX In: C. Parsons
DAL In: Kieff, Tucker

Allows us to replace Tucker with a 'better', yet overpaid, SF, and Dallas gets a PF to play behind Dirk. I'm not a huge fan of Parsons, personally, and this would likely limit Warren's development, but it works, and only McD and Horny know how far along Warren is, and what they expect he can offer.

http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=qhgqgzq

PHX In: JJ Hickson, 2016 Portland 1st Rd draft pick via DEN-protected 1-14 in 2016/2017, then becomes 2 2nd Rd picks in 2018
DEN In: Kieff

Hickson would do well paired with Len (who has range), while Mirza is playing with Chandler. Hickson is a lot like TT, but cheaper and not as good. Denver has a slew of 1st Rd picks next season, but with POR struggling, this is probably the best one for us.

http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=nwepw4f

PHX In: WCS, McLemore
SAC In: Kieff, Goodwin, 2016 1st-Lotto Protected

Sacramento has ZERO true PFs on their roster. Now, many would love for us to go after Cousins, but for as bad as my ideas are, Cousins ain't happenin'. We might have to throw a pick in, since both WCS and McLemore are top 8 picks.

Then, there are the trades that make too much sense:

Kieff for R. Anderson
Kieff for Sullinger/P. Jones/Young
Kieff for T. Gibson or Mirotic

Those are the most likely, right? Thankfully, for you all, I've run out of teams to come up with crazy trade ideas. I will be submitting these past 3 days of trade ideas to McD, so don't be surprised when one of these take place!! LOL!!

I hope you get over your pain so you can stop taking those pain meds.

That hurts, bwgood--I'm mean like right here (me pointing at my chest)--and I mean, like, deep.

Why is this board so serious?!?! So, am I to assume that none of those trade ideas would be considered??

We would easily do most of them, except the Sacramento one and the Denver one, and none of the other teams would do any of them except for Denver. The three at the bottom are more reasonable but the Bulls won't part with Mirotic an I seriously doubt Gentry will part with Ryan Anderson unless he is afraid he will leave in free agency.

[bwgood77]

I am not worried at all because Markieff ' s production on the court can be replaced easily. And on the locker room all will be better without him. I want to grab some prospect / good player ( Cody Zeller for example) or a decent pick and go to the season. If we need to add that Cavs pick it wouldn't be a big loss.

It can't be replaced that easily. I'm sure we've been trying. Damn Aldridge and that guy that talked him into SA.

Markieff is not a game changer, we are gonna be fine without him.

If we don't adquire a good PF via trade, we can put Warren and Tucker on the starting five. Tucker is better defending PFs than Markieff....he is more agresive, can switch better, better rebounder and faster.
Warren will defend SFs, but offensively he can play around the paint and he will put better numbers than Markieff. Playing around 30 minutes per game he can put 15/6 in his sleep.

I guess I wouldn't mind that. Warren will have a tough time against guys like ZBo and Griffin. Not that Markieff doesn't but he has the size to not be muscled around as much.

[letsgosuns]

The thought of Markieff not being on the Suns roster and him being replaced internally, through a trade, or a free agent signing gets me excited for the season. It would mean no more distraction and the Suns can focus on basketball instead of a soap opera. And of course it would be so much better to only have players on the team that want to give it everything they have every game they play.

[jcsunsfan]

Suns should just trade Markieff for TT. He's the best option available and can learn from Tyson.

Frying pan to fire.

[NavLDO]

It can't be replaced that easily. I'm sure we've been trying. Damn Aldridge and that guy that talked him into SA.

Markieff is not a game changer, we are gonna be fine without him.

If we don't adquire a good PF via trade, we can put Warren and Tucker on the starting five. Tucker is better defending PFs than Markieff....he is more agresive, can switch better, better rebounder and faster.
Warren will defend SFs, but offensively he can play around the paint and he will put better numbers than Markieff. Playing around 30 minutes per game he can put 15/6 in his sleep.

I'm growing to like the idea of Tucker playing PF if we can't find a reasonable replacement for Kief. PJ has the body type to guard bigger PFs. His long arms will help to keep many from shooting over the top. His lateral quickness will stop any of the few PFs who can drive around him. He has a nose for the ball and will rebound at a better rate than Markieff. He actually shoots the three better than Kief. Certainly not the classic tall stretch 4 but hell he's guarded Durant and Griffin on many occasions who are both about 6'10". Problem is we lose him as a defensive stopper on Harden and other SGs and SFs which puts a lot of pressure on Knight and Warren.

Bledsoe / Price
Knight / Goodwin or Booker
Warren / Weems
Tucker / Teletovic or Leuer
Chandler / Len

Honestly, I'm not really concerned about losing Kieff's production. I feel absolutely comfortable with going into the season without Kieff--I think a combination of Mirza, Tucker, Sims, and Len as a redefined 5 with range can overcome the loss. Yes, I said Sims. He started 32 games last season for the one team in the NBA B-league--otherwise known as the Sixers.

Look at his range on shots. Last year, he shot 43.4% in the 16-<3PT range, which made up 29% of his attempts. Compare that to Kieff's 39.7% in 20% of his attempts from the same range. Now before anyone starts claiming that I'm saying Sims is as good as Kieff, I'm NOT saying that. What I'm saying is that Sims MAY be part of the solution, should we be unable to get a PF back in return.

And even without Sims, Mirza/Tucker/Len can makeup that difference. We're not losing a great rebounder; we are, however, losing a clutch mid-range shooting PF, but by no means is Kieff difficult to replace, IMO.

On another note, count me in on the group that says keep Kieff until we get proper value. We have grown a$$ men on the team, so I'm not worried about his impact in the locker room. And with the addition of a vet like Chandler--a guy that's been around the block who understands that Kieff is not in the Suns long-term plans--I'm confident that Chandler will ensure the young guys don't heed the whiny, baby distraction in the locker room.

Yes, Kieff is gone--it's just a matter of whether it will be tomorrow, or whether it will be 18 Feb, 2016. If McD is smart, he'll only accept a deal now if the value is what it would be without off-court drama, and if not, he waits until the Felony Case is dismissed.

[Saberestar]

It can't be replaced that easily. I'm sure we've been trying. Damn Aldridge and that guy that talked him into SA.

Markieff is not a game changer, we are gonna be fine without him.

If we don't adquire a good PF via trade, we can put Warren and Tucker on the starting five. Tucker is better defending PFs than Markieff....he is more agresive, can switch better, better rebounder and faster.
Warren will defend SFs, but offensively he can play around the paint and he will put better numbers than Markieff. Playing around 30 minutes per game he can put 15/6 in his sleep.

I guess I wouldn't mind that. Warren will have a tough time against guys like ZBo and Griffin. Not that Markieff doesn't but he has the size to not be muscled around as much.

Tucker will defend those guys, he can defend any PF better than Markieff.

[gaspar]

The Suns won't win more than 30 games if they lose Keef and don't replace him with a starting calibre PF. Some of you are really, REALLY underestimating his importance on the court for this team.

[RaisingArizona]

The thought of Markieff not being on the Suns roster and him being replaced internally, through a trade, or a free agent signing gets me excited for the season. It would mean no more distraction and the Suns can focus on basketball instead of a soap opera. And of course it would be so much better to only have players on the team that want to give it everything they have every game they play.

Way to completely flip flop on your position. I guess those days of defending the Morris brothers are long gone.

[jcsunsfan]

The Suns won't win more than 30 games if they lose Keef and don't replace him with a starting calibre PF. Some of you are really, REALLY underestimating his importance on the court for this team.

This is true.

Good grief. Someone, his agent, somebody, needs to tell him that if he really wants to be traded he needs to SHUT UP!!!!! Turn the twitter stuff off or have someone hide the phone when he is drunk.

[JacobHoward]

The Suns won't win more than 30 games if they lose Keef and don't replace him with a starting calibre PF. Some of you are really, REALLY underestimating his importance on the court for this team.

Keef was one of out 3 best players last season, so I agree with you that his importance to the team is underrated. IMO, if we do get rid of Keef for nothing, I think we could still make the playoffs. Tucker can handle a lot of power forwards defensively, and he's a more aggressive rebounder. Whether or not we would get better or worse comes down to how well guys like Warren and Weems would play.


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM Forums

[garrick]

I blame Dragic for setting a precedent for disgruntled Suns demanding trades.
Kieff and Dragic last season were the vets of the team but they are/were clearly more interested in themselves over the success of the team.

Hopefully Kieff is the last rotten apple and we can't get him off the team quick enough!

[letsgosuns]

This is how I view the Suns with and without Markieff:

With him: No playoffs

Without him: No playoffs

End result: Who cares

I hope I am wrong and the Suns do make the playoffs though. But overall getting rid of Markieff gives the team a chance to see other guys play more. And if Markieff is not on the team the chemistry will be better without a guy that will do everything he can to make the organization want him gone. It is crazy to me to hear people say some fans underestimate Markieff's importance on the roster. Are you serious? What is the difference? Being the 10th seed instead of the 9th seed? The guy does not want to be here. He is nothing more than a bench player anyway. Why do you think the Suns went so hard after Aldridge and were willing to trade Markieff in a split second if Aldridge committed. Because Markieff is not an impact player. If he is one of the best players on your team, your team sucks.

[LukasBMW]

I just hope the FO gets off this mindset of NoMoBro as our starting PF. There is no place for him here and he shouldn't be given the opportunity to participate as a Sun. Keep him home. Purely a distraction at this point. Cant they see that? Suspend him with pay. Trade him when some team needs a non powerful PF.

To continue this charade that the FO wants him here is borderline disrespectful to this franchise as well as the fans. It continues to sour me. Who are they kidding?

I find it odd that I have a similar complaint as KwiefMo, Dragic, etc about the FO's spin job double-talk. Is there too much lawyer-ing influence in the FO ? I think they are full of S**t with some of the stuff they have overlooked and said. They seem to be more concerned about preserving the trade value rather than defending principles. Greed kills.


PS, I actually think his value will be more in Dec, when full rosters open up, and team needs change. Plus, I am holding out for the Bledsoe-Kwief / Love blockbuster

Rock On Fo-Real... Thin-skin is in... but don't let it kick you out

Knight
Booker
Warren/Tucker
Love
Chandler/Len

That lineup has "lights out" potential. If Warren gets a consistent 3 point shot, that's one defensive player of the year surrounded by shooters.

Secure a decent backup PG, a vet SG to give Booker some development time, and find a gritty vet PF, and we are back in the playoff game.

[JacobHoward]

I just hope the FO gets off this mindset of NoMoBro as our starting PF. There is no place for him here and he shouldn't be given the opportunity to participate as a Sun. Keep him home. Purely a distraction at this point. Cant they see that? Suspend him with pay. Trade him when some team needs a non powerful PF.

To continue this charade that the FO wants him here is borderline disrespectful to this franchise as well as the fans. It continues to sour me. Who are they kidding?

I find it odd that I have a similar complaint as KwiefMo, Dragic, etc about the FO's spin job double-talk. Is there too much lawyer-ing influence in the FO ? I think they are full of S**t with some of the stuff they have overlooked and said. They seem to be more concerned about preserving the trade value rather than defending principles. Greed kills.


PS, I actually think his value will be more in Dec, when full rosters open up, and team needs change. Plus, I am holding out for the Bledsoe-Kwief / Love blockbuster

Rock On Fo-Real... Thin-skin is in... but don't let it kick you out

Knight
Booker
Warren/Tucker
Love
Chandler/Len

That lineup has "lights out" potential. If Warren gets a consistent 3 point shot, that's one defensive player of the year surrounded by shooters.

Secure a decent backup PG, a vet SG to give Booker some development time, and find a gritty vet PF, and we are back in the playoff game.

I don't see any scenario where Booker plays more than 30 games, let alone starts. If there's one thing we know about Hornacek, it's that he doesn't like playing his rookies.


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM Forums

[bwgood77]

Knight
Booker
Warren/Tucker
Love
Chandler/Len

That lineup has "lights out" potential. If Warren gets a consistent 3 point shot, that's one defensive player of the year surrounded by shooters.

Secure a decent backup PG, a vet SG to give Booker some development time, and find a gritty vet PF, and we are back in the playoff game.

I don't see any scenario where Booker plays more than 30 games, let alone starts. If there's one thing we know about Hornacek, it's that he doesn't like playing his rookies.


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM Forums[/quote]

Well I'd phrase it more like "Hornacek doesn't like to play guys who are not quite ready to contribute effectively at the NBA level yet."

[phnart]

Sadly, though, all of this ridiculousness has been more interesting than much of the on court play has been over the past few years. This has been one of the worst eras of Suns basketball, a team who, in my opinion,as a 46 year old life long fan have at very least almost always played an entertaining brand of basketball. Morris is going to whine and whine until he either gets suspended or gets his wish to be traded for a player with much less talent (or a much less favorable contract).

You can't win with players like Morris and it is well past time for the team's management to figure out how to put a winning team on the court again.

[NoKneeBledsoe]

You...want Gerald Wallace...to start? Dude is done.

meant to have him on bench or 3rd and just use him as a vet and expiring