2017 Draft Discussion Part 4: 3 Day Countdown!

[jredsaz]

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This guy is a local radio host, I'm surprised he's okay with losing all his credibility with these click bait tweets.

OMG Faux-Gambo is giving real Gambo a run for his money! I didn't even realize there was a 1580 am. Lol

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[bwgood77]

I sure wish there was a way to keep #4 in a trade for Porzingins. If its Bledsoe and Chriss, then we will need a pg. Its just that Bender and Zinger are slightly redundant (Bender being the much lesser one). Future Suns picks, Miami picks. Whatever.

We would have to pick up a pg in free agency. Ulis sure would get his shot though. BK would even have an opening to turn it around.

I think Bender and KP fit better together because of the ability to switch on defenders and guard 3s, and the passing ability, but stated much better here:

think there should be a poll....wonder who people would prefer to keep between Chriss and bender

Was just about to make a post about this

If I were the Suns I'd keep Bender as his skillset and tools archetype (playmaking/defensive versatility/shooting potential) don't come along often for a big and are key to how the league is trending.

I also think the fit is better-

1. there would be some redundancies with Chriss and Porzingis: Chriss has a nice scoring skillset, but so does Porzingis, and KP is IMO better at that. Porzingis (by virtue of being 7'3") will always have some issues keeping up on the perimeter defensively, and Chriss' instincts just aren't there to be able to cover in a team setting, despite being a decent shot blocker. But then again, Porzingis is likely better at the rim protection aspect as well.

Because Booker is obviously a staple and you have to account for his defense (which will likely never be very good), it's going to be tough having two frontcourt guys who can't switch onto smalls effectively. Can't have more than one guy you need to hide on that end.

2. Bender's offensive approach is mainly as a playmaker, and he will likely never be a great individual scorer. This frees Booker/Porzingis to be the main offensive focal points/gravity generators. Really, the passing ability of Bender puts his fit over the top for me - both Booker/Porzingis move off the ball well, are deadly shooters, and KP is a dynamic lob threat - give Bender some free reign to grab and go in transition, as well as some high post/elbow touches with off-ball screening/cutting, and you could see some ridiculous offense a la GSW (Steph/KD/Draymond-lite?). Can't forget the defensive side though, and Bender's instincts there are likely amongst the best on this young team.

Chriss surprised me with how he developed last season actually, improved a hell of a lot as a scorer and shooter, and I think he'll have a better career than I initially thought. But I don't think we've begun to see what Bender is capable of - Watson played him out of position (small forward? parked in the corner? ) a vast majority of his minutes and it was terrible. Not nearly as crazy as hypothetically using Nikola Jokic as a screen/rebound big, or using Giannis as a floor spacer, but along the same fundamental miscasting of role.

[jredsaz]

I sure wish there was a way to keep #4 in a trade for Porzingins. If its Bledsoe and Chriss, then we will need a pg. Its just that Bender and Zinger are slightly redundant (Bender being the much lesser one). Future Suns picks, Miami picks. Whatever.

We would have to pick up a pg in free agency. Ulis sure would get his shot though. BK would even have an opening to turn it around.

I think Bender and KP fit better together because of the ability to switch on defenders and guard 3s, and the passing ability, but stated much better here:

think there should be a poll....wonder who people would prefer to keep between Chriss and bender

Was just about to make a post about this

If I were the Suns I'd keep Bender as his skillset and tools archetype (playmaking/defensive versatility/shooting potential) don't come along often for a big and are key to how the league is trending.

I also think the fit is better-

1. there would be some redundancies with Chriss and Porzingis: Chriss has a nice scoring skillset, but so does Porzingis, and KP is IMO better at that. Porzingis (by virtue of being 7'3") will always have some issues keeping up on the perimeter defensively, and Chriss' instincts just aren't there to be able to cover in a team setting, despite being a decent shot blocker. But then again, Porzingis is likely better at the rim protection aspect as well.

Because Booker is obviously a staple and you have to account for his defense (which will likely never be very good), it's going to be tough having two frontcourt guys who can't switch onto smalls effectively. Can't have more than one guy you need to hide on that end.

2. Bender's offensive approach is mainly as a playmaker, and he will likely never be a great individual scorer. This frees Booker/Porzingis to be the main offensive focal points/gravity generators. Really, the passing ability of Bender puts his fit over the top for me - both Booker/Porzingis move off the ball well, are deadly shooters, and KP is a dynamic lob threat - give Bender some free reign to grab and go in transition, as well as some high post/elbow touches with off-ball screening/cutting, and you could see some ridiculous offense a la GSW (Steph/KD/Draymond-lite?). Can't forget the defensive side though, and Bender's instincts there are likely amongst the best on this young team.

Chriss surprised me with how he developed last season actually, improved a hell of a lot as a scorer and shooter, and I think he'll have a better career than I initially thought. But I don't think we've begun to see what Bender is capable of - Watson played him out of position (small forward? parked in the corner? ) a vast majority of his minutes and it was terrible. Not nearly as crazy as hypothetically using Nikola Jokic as a screen/rebound big, or using Giannis as a floor spacer, but along the same fundamental miscasting of role.

Totally agree. Bender/KP could be unique if bender reaches (or comes close to) his ceiling. PG is deep. We can pick one up in the early second round, trade for one like Jackson, or sign a veteran FA.

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[JMac1]

Tatum! Over JJ is my final answer. I like offense......

Final answer....with this much time left? How much money do I want to lay on the line?

I really don't care. As long as it's KP or Jackson or Issac or Fox with Bledsoe trade..... I really and truly don't care. I will be excited as long as one of the above happens.

[jcsunsfan]

I sure wish there was a way to keep #4 in a trade for Porzingins. If its Bledsoe and Chriss, then we will need a pg. Its just that Bender and Zinger are slightly redundant (Bender being the much lesser one). Future Suns picks, Miami picks. Whatever.

We would have to pick up a pg in free agency. Ulis sure would get his shot though. BK would even have an opening to turn it around.

I think Bender and KP fit better together because of the ability to switch on defenders and guard 3s, and the passing ability, but stated much better here:

think there should be a poll....wonder who people would prefer to keep between Chriss and bender

Was just about to make a post about this

If I were the Suns I'd keep Bender as his skillset and tools archetype (playmaking/defensive versatility/shooting potential) don't come along often for a big and are key to how the league is trending.

I also think the fit is better-

1. there would be some redundancies with Chriss and Porzingis: Chriss has a nice scoring skillset, but so does Porzingis, and KP is IMO better at that. Porzingis (by virtue of being 7'3") will always have some issues keeping up on the perimeter defensively, and Chriss' instincts just aren't there to be able to cover in a team setting, despite being a decent shot blocker. But then again, Porzingis is likely better at the rim protection aspect as well.

Because Booker is obviously a staple and you have to account for his defense (which will likely never be very good), it's going to be tough having two frontcourt guys who can't switch onto smalls effectively. Can't have more than one guy you need to hide on that end.

2. Bender's offensive approach is mainly as a playmaker, and he will likely never be a great individual scorer. This frees Booker/Porzingis to be the main offensive focal points/gravity generators. Really, the passing ability of Bender puts his fit over the top for me - both Booker/Porzingis move off the ball well, are deadly shooters, and KP is a dynamic lob threat - give Bender some free reign to grab and go in transition, as well as some high post/elbow touches with off-ball screening/cutting, and you could see some ridiculous offense a la GSW (Steph/KD/Draymond-lite?). Can't forget the defensive side though, and Bender's instincts there are likely amongst the best on this young team.

Chriss surprised me with how he developed last season actually, improved a hell of a lot as a scorer and shooter, and I think he'll have a better career than I initially thought. But I don't think we've begun to see what Bender is capable of - Watson played him out of position (small forward? parked in the corner? ) a vast majority of his minutes and it was terrible. Not nearly as crazy as hypothetically using Nikola Jokic as a screen/rebound big, or using Giannis as a floor spacer, but along the same fundamental miscasting of role.

Hmm. You might be convincing me. I confess, I might have fallen victim to "two big white guys" thinking rather than just looking at their skill sets. Wow.

There are alot of free agent pgs this year. Curry, Paul, Lowry, Holliday, Teague, Rondo, Mills, Livingston and more.

[jredsaz]

I sure wish there was a way to keep #4 in a trade for Porzingins. If its Bledsoe and Chriss, then we will need a pg. Its just that Bender and Zinger are slightly redundant (Bender being the much lesser one). Future Suns picks, Miami picks. Whatever.

We would have to pick up a pg in free agency. Ulis sure would get his shot though. BK would even have an opening to turn it around.

I think Bender and KP fit better together because of the ability to switch on defenders and guard 3s, and the passing ability, but stated much better here:

Was just about to make a post about this

If I were the Suns I'd keep Bender as his skillset and tools archetype (playmaking/defensive versatility/shooting potential) don't come along often for a big and are key to how the league is trending.

I also think the fit is better-

1. there would be some redundancies with Chriss and Porzingis: Chriss has a nice scoring skillset, but so does Porzingis, and KP is IMO better at that. Porzingis (by virtue of being 7'3") will always have some issues keeping up on the perimeter defensively, and Chriss' instincts just aren't there to be able to cover in a team setting, despite being a decent shot blocker. But then again, Porzingis is likely better at the rim protection aspect as well.

Because Booker is obviously a staple and you have to account for his defense (which will likely never be very good), it's going to be tough having two frontcourt guys who can't switch onto smalls effectively. Can't have more than one guy you need to hide on that end.

2. Bender's offensive approach is mainly as a playmaker, and he will likely never be a great individual scorer. This frees Booker/Porzingis to be the main offensive focal points/gravity generators. Really, the passing ability of Bender puts his fit over the top for me - both Booker/Porzingis move off the ball well, are deadly shooters, and KP is a dynamic lob threat - give Bender some free reign to grab and go in transition, as well as some high post/elbow touches with off-ball screening/cutting, and you could see some ridiculous offense a la GSW (Steph/KD/Draymond-lite?). Can't forget the defensive side though, and Bender's instincts there are likely amongst the best on this young team.

Chriss surprised me with how he developed last season actually, improved a hell of a lot as a scorer and shooter, and I think he'll have a better career than I initially thought. But I don't think we've begun to see what Bender is capable of - Watson played him out of position (small forward? parked in the corner? ) a vast majority of his minutes and it was terrible. Not nearly as crazy as hypothetically using Nikola Jokic as a screen/rebound big, or using Giannis as a floor spacer, but along the same fundamental miscasting of role.

Hmm. You might be convincing me. I confess, I might have fallen victim to "two big white guys" thinking rather than just looking at their skill sets. Wow.

They are European white. It's different. Lol

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[jredsaz]

ESPN talking heads are pushing LMA to Suns for #4 hard. It's sickening. Stein, Ramona.

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[jeff2020]

ESPN talking heads are pushing LMA to Suns for #4 hard. It's sickening. Stein, Ramona.

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if that actually happens i might just take a few years off from watching this team

[ImNotMcDiSwear]

ESPN talking heads are pushing LMA to Suns for #4 hard. It's sickening. Stein, Ramona.

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Best guess is they're just playing up intrigue wherever it may be found.

Aldridge won't net you the #4 in this market.

[bwoolf2]

We trade #4 for LMA, after 20+ years I will retire as a Suns fan until Sarver sells the team.

[Kerrsed]

Read on Twitter

This guy is a local radio host, I'm surprised he's okay with losing all his credibility with these click bait tweets.

OMG Faux-Gambo is giving real Gambo a run for his money! I didn't even realize there was a 1580 am. Lol

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Well, SLAM magazine is running with it.

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http://www.slamonline.com/nba/kristaps-porzingis-trade-likely-phoenix-suns/#tZMxOLcOEYklOeYO.97

[bwgood77]

Hmm. You might be convincing me. I confess, I might have fallen victim to "two big white guys" thinking rather than just looking at their skill sets. Wow.

I've always hated the Bender/KP comparisons because they are completely different players. But even I, for a second, was kind of thinking the same way until I really thought about it more, and then when I saw this post it clarified it. Bender's bbiq is very high. I don't know if you listened to the Vecenie podcast, which is definitely worth a listen (last post in podcast thread) but it mentioned how we were better offensively and defensively when he as on the floor.

[Villalobos]

My biggest concerns with Bender are position and Ulis, who doesn't appear very eager to share the ball with him. Seems to me Ulis has formed a clique that does not include Bender - and I'm not sure Watson is doing anything to stop that rift from developing. That's something the FO needs to be on top of, IMO.

I don't think it's a clique. I think Ulis has a tiny bit of Rondo syndrome, where he'll generally keep the ball until he gets an assist. That clashes with a secondary playmaker like Bender.

[STEV13]

Not gonna lie, Im glad the Suns are all over Twitter today

[JoRain]

So it looks like that Suns would only consider Fox if they have trade for Bledsoe lined up

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[Christine-In-AZ]

From Chad Ford's latest mock published today-

3. Boston Celtics (via 76ers)
Jayson Tatum
Duke
Freshman
Forward

Other potential draftees: Josh Jackson

Celtics president Danny Ainge is still fielding trade offers, but as of Wednesday the most likely outcome looks like the Celtics selecting at No. 3.

This pick seems to come down to Tatum versus Josh Jackson. The Celtics love them both, and one source in Boston said they've been going back and forth on the two about every six hours.

Jackson was the early favorite here, but a strong workout and interview by Tatum, combined with a refusal from Jackson's agent to bring him in for a similar workout, appear to have tipped the scales in Tatum's direction.

That's not the only reason. While the Celtics prize Jackson's defense and feel as if he'll be an instant fit in their defensive culture, what they really need is a shot-maker who can stretch the floor. Tatum is a superior shooter and scorer to Jackson. In fact, he's the most NBA-ready scorer in the draft. He doesn't bring Jackson's defensive abilities, but the Celtics are hopeful that he'll buy into what they do on the defensive end the same way Jaylen Brown did last season.

4. Phoenix Suns
De'Aaron Fox
Kentucky
Freshman
Guard

Other potential draftees: Jayson Tatum, Josh Jackson, Jonathan Isaac

The Suns have been trying to trade up to land Ball, but it looks as if they're not going to be successful. They've also discussed trading for veterans such as Paul George, Jimmy Butler and Kevin Love (and they swatted down an offer for DeAndre Jordan), but for now it appears the most likely scenario is that they'll keep their pick.

If Tatum is off the board, this pick will come down to Jackson, Fox or Jonathan Isaac. The Suns like all three.

Jackson would give them a defense-minded wing who adds toughness and versatility to a young, offense-minded team. He appears to be favored by GM Ryan McDonough.

Fox gives them a high-character, super-quick point guard who could open the door to Phoenix moving Eric Bledsoe over the summer. However, he canceled his workout with the Suns and didn't reschedule. Still, owner Robert Sarver, according to a source, is very high on Fox.

Isaac might have more upside than either player as a long, athletic forward who can guard multiple positions and score in a number of ways. He has the support of head coach Earl Watson.

It has been hard to discern who will win the battle. I think Jackson is the best fit, given the current roster, but when in doubt go with the owner.

[Sreister]

So it looks like that Suns would only consider Fox if they have trade for Bledsoe lined up

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I mean, that almost goes without being said. But good that management learned from our "three headed monster".

EDIT: For what it's worth, minus the ego thing, I think it could have definitely worked if they really tried instead of letting things get in the way. But such is professional sports.

[Villalobos]

if Sarver forces a Fox pick with Josh Jackson there...

[Zelaznyrules]

Hmm. You might be convincing me. I confess, I might have fallen victim to "two big white guys" thinking rather than just looking at their skill sets. Wow.

I've always hated the Bender/KP comparisons because they are completely different players. But even I, for a second, was kind of thinking the same way until I really thought about it more, and then when I saw this post it clarified it. Bender's bbiq is very high. I don't know if you listened to the Vecenie podcast, which is definitely worth a listen (last post in podcast thread) but it mentioned how we were better offensively and defensively when he as on the floor.

Perhaps my biggest concern about Bender has to do with his playing time. He gets very little of it, here and abroad. We justify this and the justifications all sound reasonable but I can't quite forget that strange Watson interview last December (?) that made it sound like there might be a real issue with this kid. It led to speculation or rumors about his talent level and his work ethic on one side and from the Bender supporters it led to accusations that Earl didn't like Euro players or white guys or whatever but still, it's a little bit of smoke that has me looking for the flames. It may mean absolutely nothing but that just makes a weird interview even weirder. But then again, it was Watson.

[Zelaznyrules]

My biggest concerns with Bender are position and Ulis, who doesn't appear very eager to share the ball with him. Seems to me Ulis has formed a clique that does not include Bender - and I'm not sure Watson is doing anything to stop that rift from developing. That's something the FO needs to be on top of, IMO.

I don't think it's a clique. I think Ulis has a tiny bit of Rondo syndrome, where he'll generally keep the ball until he gets an assist. That clashes with a secondary playmaker like Bender.

Based on what? If that's derived from his play in a Suns uniform, I'd suggest a look at his surrounding pieces and the instructions from his head coach would explain that away. If you saw it in his Kentucky play, well, that might be a concern. I didn't watch enough Kentucky ball to know if that's the case but he did win conference player of the year and averaged 1.4 more assists per 40 than the highly touted Fox did (Ulis numbers are from his sophmore year though).