Suns Offseason Thread 3: Spurned for the Spurs

[Mr-Al]

Agreed. McD needs to give up some sort of long term asset for a guy who can help us compete for a playoff spot now.

Babby is gone and his tenure was a disaster. If McD and Hornacek dont make a playoff run Horny is gone and McD starts to looks like another bad Babby decision.

This is a joke right?

Oh wait you're serious

Give up long term assets to get swept in the first round a little sooner

This is just McD's 3rd year

I'm glad you're not the GM, because you sound like Lance Blanks

[bwgood77]

Thanks rayray

But Joe Johnson

That would be so, so, supremely terrible

Second of all, Warren would never play

If it took away from Warren's time, I would hate it, but if we had him for just one year as the guard who was on the court when Bledsoe or Knight sat, I don't know why people would have a problem with that. It's not like it's big money going forward.

I guess if he makes as much as he does, it would likely mean we need to trade out guys, so in that case, I wouldn't do it, but I certainly wouldn't mind him as a third guard for one year.

[StarMaker]

Just go get Stoudemire. I think he is a realistic option that Suns could select. Experience, Big man(PF), shooting, Leadership...
Everything he has is what Phoenix needs right now.

[bwgood77]

Well, it seems like the consensus on the Raptors forum is that they would not trade Patrick Patterson for Markieff. Even though they think Markieff is better, they think PP has a higher IQ, is more likely to get better from 3, and they like his upside. Someone posted best 8-16 ft fg% for PFs and PP was 1st and Kieff was 2nd. That's kind of interesting.

Some Raps fans would trade them straight up but it seems like most would not.

[StarMaker]

Well, it seems like the consensus on the Raptors forum is that they would not trade Patrick Patterson for Markieff. Even though they think Markieff is better, they think PP has a higher IQ, is more likely to get better from 3, and they like his upside. Someone posted best 8-16 ft fg% for PFs and PP was 1st and Kieff was 2nd. That's kind of interesting.

Some Raps fans would trade them straight up but it seems like most would not.

lol...

PP's upside??? I don't understand it. PP is 26 years old. He will never become what they want.

I don't like Markieff though, He is way better than PP.

[AtheJ415]

Agreed. McD needs to give up some sort of long term asset for a guy who can help us compete for a playoff spot now.

Babby is gone and his tenure was a disaster. If McD and Hornacek dont make a playoff run Horny is gone and McD starts to looks like another bad Babby decision.

This is a joke right?

Oh wait you're serious

Give up long term assets to get swept in the first round a little sooner

This is just McD's 3rd year

I'm glad you're not the GM, because you sound like Lance Blanks

I'm just shocked by some people's view of what McDonough has done here. He came into maybe the worst situation in the league and has turned it around incredibly quickly by making some lopsided trades. He then locked up our younger assets to cheap extensions relative to their counterparts around the league. The guy has been awesome. The only real knock should be the whole Dragic issue, but even then signing Isaiah Thomas shouldn't have been the problem it was if the players had acted like adults. If the worst thing you can say about a GM is that he signed a solid player to one of the best value contracts in basketball then he's doing a damn good job.

People seem to be confused about where we are as a team, and I see that all the time in the media. Everyone assumes we're trying to make the playoffs as our #1 priority and therefore we've been failures the past 2 years. That's not what we have been trying to do--it's just that like NO, our young talent is way better than teams that are seen as rebuilding. We're rebuilding first and foremost with a goal of building a core of players in the 18-25 range who can contend for titles down the line. That is our first priority, and even in our acquisition of stars McDonough has publicly stated that he's looking for a guy who fits that age range. While Aldridge is 29, he was seen as too good to pass up and as a guy who could play for a number of years due to his skill game and still help when this core is ready to contend.

[lilfishi22]

I remember last season I mentioned idea of the Suns trading for Joe Johnson and I was vilified for it.

As you should have been

[jredsaz]

Agreed. McD needs to give up some sort of long term asset for a guy who can help us compete for a playoff spot now.

Babby is gone and his tenure was a disaster. If McD and Hornacek dont make a playoff run Horny is gone and McD starts to looks like another bad Babby decision.

This is a joke right?

Oh wait you're serious

Give up long term assets to get swept in the first round a little sooner

This is just McD's 3rd year

I'm glad you're not the GM, because you sound like Lance Blanks

It depends what long term asset im talking about. Not Len Warren or Booker. More like Goodwin or the Cleveland first or possibly a protectes first plus some cap space. Obviously Morris is a long term asset that has been discussed today.

At any rate, McD will find him self in some hot water if the Suns miss the playoffs again. Getting close is fun but it gets old quickly and more importantly it has come to define McDs Suns.

But thanks for responding like a 10 year old. Always a pleasure.

[AtheJ415]

We tried like hell.

Could have changed your franchise from a treadmill to a legit contender if not this year the year then in the near future.
What do you think you are gonna do next season? what would you wanna do?

How the f*ck is a team who has 4 starters under 25 a treadmill team?

Because 25 year olds don't improve. It's the same reason none of our players can get better, and we should offload all of them for veteran player X who will get us to the 8 seed. If not for Tyson Chandler, we'd be contending for a top draft pick! All hail Tyson.

[letsgosuns]

I remember last season I mentioned idea of the Suns trading for Joe Johnson and I was vilified for it.

As you should have been

I really do not see what is funny about this. Like I said earlier in my response regarding this, every player I mentioned last year to trade for Joe Johnson is off the team except for Markieff, and there is a very realistic possibility he gets traded too. Just like I already said, I really believe Johnson would have been a big help down the stretch last year when the Suns were vying for a playoff spot.

[MrMiyagi]

Could have changed your franchise from a treadmill to a legit contender if not this year the year then in the near future.
What do you think you are gonna do next season? what would you wanna do?

How the f*ck is a team who has 4 starters under 25 a treadmill team?

Because 25 year olds don't improve. It's the same reason none of our players can get better, and we should offload all of them for veteran player X who will get us to the 8 seed. If not for Tyson Chandler, we'd be contending for a top draft pick! All hail Tyson.

[Mr-Al]

Agreed. McD needs to give up some sort of long term asset for a guy who can help us compete for a playoff spot now.

Babby is gone and his tenure was a disaster. If McD and Hornacek dont make a playoff run Horny is gone and McD starts to looks like another bad Babby decision.

This is a joke right?

Oh wait you're serious

Give up long term assets to get swept in the first round a little sooner

This is just McD's 3rd year

I'm glad you're not the GM, because you sound like Lance Blanks

I'm just shocked by some people's view of what McDonough has done here. He came into maybe the worst situation in the league and has turned it around incredibly quickly by making some lopsided trades. He then locked up our younger assets to cheap extensions relative to their counterparts around the league. The guy has been awesome. The only real knock should be the whole Dragic issue, but even then signing Isaiah Thomas shouldn't have been the problem it was if the players had acted like adults. If the worst thing you can say about a GM is that he signed a solid player to one of the best value contracts in basketball then he's doing a damn good job.

People seem to be confused about where we are as a team, and I see that all the time in the media. Everyone assumes we're trying to make the playoffs as our #1 priority and therefore we've been failures the past 2 years. That's not what we have been trying to do--it's just that like NO, our young talent is way better than teams that are seen as rebuilding. We're rebuilding first and foremost with a goal of building a core of players in the 18-25 range who can contend for titles down the line. That is our first priority, and even in our acquisition of stars McDonough has publicly stated that he's looking for a guy who fits that age range. While Aldridge is 29, he was seen as too good to pass up and as a guy who could play for a number of years due to his skill game and still help when this core is ready to contend.

Beautifully said.

I think the Chandler signing and LMA issue screwed up some of the heads here and made them forget we're in the middle of a **** rebuild

Ugh

[AtheJ415]

As you should have been

I really do not see what is funny about this. Like I said earlier in my response regarding this, every player I mentioned last year to trade for Joe Johnson is off the team except for Markieff, and there is a very realistic possibility he gets traded too. Just like I already said, I really believe Johnson would have been a big help down the stretch last year when the Suns were vying for a playoff spot.

Markieff for Joe Johnson alone is an awful trade for us. I've been an avid fan of what McDonough has done, but trading a solid player who is 25 and under a drastically underpaid contract for the next 4 years for a 33 year old who makes 3 times as much is nonsense unless said player can bring a title to the team. Joe Johnson cannot win us an NBA title. Making the playoffs alone is not the end goal, and we shouldn't sell any part of the future to get an 8 seed.

[Mr-Al]

As you should have been

I really do not see what is funny about this. Like I said earlier in my response regarding this, every player I mentioned last year to trade for Joe Johnson is off the team except for Markieff, and there is a very realistic possibility he gets traded too. Just like I already said, I really believe Johnson would have been a big help down the stretch last year when the Suns were vying for a playoff spot.

What's the endgame with Joe?

There isn't one

He's old as ****, he's expiring, and he's not turning the needle to any large degree

[Mr-Al]

I really do not see what is funny about this. Like I said earlier in my response regarding this, every player I mentioned last year to trade for Joe Johnson is off the team except for Markieff, and there is a very realistic possibility he gets traded too. Just like I already said, I really believe Johnson would have been a big help down the stretch last year when the Suns were vying for a playoff spot.

Markieff for Joe Johnson alone is an awful trade for us. I've been an avid fan of what McDonough has done, but trading a solid player who is 25 and under a drastically underpaid contract for the next 4 years for a 33 year old who makes 3 times as much is nonsense unless said player can bring a title to the team. Joe Johnson cannot win us an NBA title. Making the playoffs alone is not the end goal, and we shouldn't sell any part of the future to get an 8 seed.

And something more true was never said

We crap on Lance Blanks here all the time, but most of these trades sound like ones he would and McD would laugh at. Glad just making the 8th seed isn't his only goal

[lilfishi22]

As you should have been

I really do not see what is funny about this. Like I said earlier in my response regarding this, every player I mentioned last year to trade for Joe Johnson is off the team except for Markieff, and there is a very realistic possibility he gets traded too. Just like I already said, I really believe Johnson would have been a big help down the stretch last year when the Suns were vying for a playoff spot.

So he would be on the books for $23m (pro rata) last yr and $24m this yr for what? He may have gotten us to playoffs (although highly unlikely) then we would be 1st round fodder. Then we would have his $24m deal in our books this season, meaning virtually no way to improve our roster this offseason.

It's an awful awful trade for a guy that is extremely overpaid and has been overpaid for many years, for maybe a playoff appearance? C'mon mate

[AtheJ415]

My new list of PF targets after the recent rumors:

1. Zeller (if he's available, there's no question he should be #1 imo. Young, fast, athletic, and on a rookie deal where we could control his rights if it works out. Hornacek seemed convinced he could extend his range as well during the draft process).
2. Anderson (he's a better rebounder than some here realize. Still young enough to contribute to the team a few years down the line. I think some really underrate how good he can be because most want a more traditional PF).
3. Jordan Hill (27, still improving, athletic, and can hit open jumpers from the mid range. Solid rebounder. Active)
4. Seraphin (25, should be cheap, with room to get better. I like his post moves, but hate his ball-stopping. Also think his agent is a moron)
5.Taj Gibson (probably the most ready to help now, but for age reasons I don't have him terribly high here. Definitely a good player, but I think he's somewhat overrated due to who he plays with and his playing style, which jives more with how many here would prefer a PF play)

If we go after anybody else, it better be a veteran who can provide some value off the court by improving the locker room or taking Kieff under his wing, or a youngster who has some upside (essentially taking a flyer, because sometimes you end up with a Whiteside type player).

And with all of these, I'd keep Kieff. Getting any individually doesn't solve our PF problems. Getting them on top of Kieff does imo.

[jcsunsfan]

Markieff is probably whining about his brother being traded. I would not dump his sorry backside just because he is crying. I would tell him to grow a pair and play.

We had to trade Goran because he was going to be a FA and would not resign with us. Markieff has a contract. If we got a good offer, fine. But there is no way in the world Joe Johnson qualifies as a good offer.

Oh, I know. Its a three way trade.

JJ to Cleveland
TT sign and trade to Phoenix
Kieff to the Nets

Still don't like it.

[JMac1]

I remember last season I mentioned idea of the Suns trading for Joe Johnson and I was vilified for it.

As you should have been

Wait?! Al gets the credit for my reply?! Check page 38

[JMac1]

I remember last season I mentioned idea of the Suns trading for Joe Johnson and I was vilified for it.

As well you should.....don't want no part of the ex-girlfriend who left for greener pastures.......cost us a few titles easy! F NO!!

My bad...page 39