Moderators: bwgood77, lilfishi22, Qwigglez
sunsbg wrote:collidingNeurons wrote:I still get critical of Ayton at times but a glad he is playing with more focus and intensity, those were always my main cripes about him and his inability to catch the ball at times which has also improved lately it seems
Catching a ball improves when you get it more often.
Bogyo wrote:sunsbg wrote:collidingNeurons wrote:I still get critical of Ayton at times but a glad he is playing with more focus and intensity, those were always my main cripes about him and his inability to catch the ball at times which has also improved lately it seems
Catching a ball improves when you get it more often.
That's what she said?
*disclaimer: it is only a joke it has nothing to do with DA
NapoleonII wrote:Is it crazy to think that I don't see us being this successful this soon, atop the Western conference, if we drafted Luka?
There's a lot of what-ifs and unknown variables in that statement, but its ringing true to me. Yes Luka would be a cornerstone, untouchable player and CP3 probably only has 1-2 more years left but a hypothetical Luka/Booker/Bridges + Capela or whomever wouldn't be getting it done or thriving like this group is.
Another controversial/homer statement:
Is Ayton's ceiling higher than Luka's?
Saberestar wrote:
lilfishi22 wrote:Saberestar wrote:
Love watching Ayton play D on Giannis. Unlike other defenders who might be quicker and technically better defenders, there really isn't anyone that matches up to Giannis' size and length quite like Ayton and that's a different look to the one Giannis sees on a nightly basis.
Giannis' offense is pretty basic when he doesn't have his jumper dropping so he basically just takes a couple of steps past his defender or brings them along for a dunk fest. Ayton doesn't let him do that. He calls Giannis' bluff with the shooting from range and when Giannis realises this, it's incredibly obvious what he's going to do and that's to do a simple line drive lol. The difference is that Ayton is huge and has the length and quickness to bother and jam up the drive. And even if Giannis is able to get near the basket, he can't just dunk it on Ayton like he does with virtually every other defender. Ayton makes Giannis work really damn hard to pivot multiple times just to find an opening for a layup or shoot some fadeaway.
bwgood77 wrote:NapoleonII wrote:Is it crazy to think that I don't see us being this successful this soon, atop the Western conference, if we drafted Luka?
There's a lot of what-ifs and unknown variables in that statement, but its ringing true to me. Yes Luka would be a cornerstone, untouchable player and CP3 probably only has 1-2 more years left but a hypothetical Luka/Booker/Bridges + Capela or whomever wouldn't be getting it done or thriving like this group is.
Another controversial/homer statement:
Is Ayton's ceiling higher than Luka's?
Who knows about ceilings? Luka is going to be more of a Harden. Ayton I think is not really comparable to any player.....he is an effortless scorer. a solid rebounder but he is a better defensive switch guy than any big in the game...at least better than any of the top bigs (Embiid, Jokic, Towns, Gobert).
Now each of those guys is better at something (post up, passing, shooting 3s, protecting rim) but Ayton is an underrated passer and becoming a better rim protector and help defender.
I think we ARE better with Ayton since we have Chris Paul. If we didn't have Paul, I think we are likely better with Luka..though that depends on who are big is and if we have Rubio and maybe Gordon in an Oubre/Gordon trade.
NapoleonII wrote:Is Ayton's ceiling higher than Luka's?
DroughtsOverPHX wrote:lilfishi22 wrote:Saberestar wrote:
Love watching Ayton play D on Giannis. Unlike other defenders who might be quicker and technically better defenders, there really isn't anyone that matches up to Giannis' size and length quite like Ayton and that's a different look to the one Giannis sees on a nightly basis.
Giannis' offense is pretty basic when he doesn't have his jumper dropping so he basically just takes a couple of steps past his defender or brings them along for a dunk fest. Ayton doesn't let him do that. He calls Giannis' bluff with the shooting from range and when Giannis realises this, it's incredibly obvious what he's going to do and that's to do a simple line drive lol. The difference is that Ayton is huge and has the length and quickness to bother and jam up the drive. And even if Giannis is able to get near the basket, he can't just dunk it on Ayton like he does with virtually every other defender. Ayton makes Giannis work really damn hard to pivot multiple times just to find an opening for a layup or shoot some fadeaway.
I thought we were in trouble with Ayton. I knew there was no way he could be fundamentally sound, he's too raw, too new to the game etc. What jumps out at me is he outstanding at going straight up on D and there are a ton of non-calls as a result. It is definitely fun watching him frustrate a 2 time MVP.
lilfishi22 wrote:DroughtsOverPHX wrote:lilfishi22 wrote:Love watching Ayton play D on Giannis. Unlike other defenders who might be quicker and technically better defenders, there really isn't anyone that matches up to Giannis' size and length quite like Ayton and that's a different look to the one Giannis sees on a nightly basis.
Giannis' offense is pretty basic when he doesn't have his jumper dropping so he basically just takes a couple of steps past his defender or brings them along for a dunk fest. Ayton doesn't let him do that. He calls Giannis' bluff with the shooting from range and when Giannis realises this, it's incredibly obvious what he's going to do and that's to do a simple line drive lol. The difference is that Ayton is huge and has the length and quickness to bother and jam up the drive. And even if Giannis is able to get near the basket, he can't just dunk it on Ayton like he does with virtually every other defender. Ayton makes Giannis work really damn hard to pivot multiple times just to find an opening for a layup or shoot some fadeaway.
I thought we were in trouble with Ayton. I knew there was no way he could be fundamentally sound, he's too raw, too new to the game etc. What jumps out at me is he outstanding at going straight up on D and there are a ton of non-calls as a result. It is definitely fun watching him frustrate a 2 time MVP.
What's amazing is that he came in with offense as a strength and defense as a weakness. Pretty quickly it swapped. I don't think I've ver seen that before. Usually players that stick in the league stick around because they focus on their strengths.
suns12345 wrote:lilfishi22 wrote:DroughtsOverPHX wrote:I thought we were in trouble with Ayton. I knew there was no way he could be fundamentally sound, he's too raw, too new to the game etc. What jumps out at me is he outstanding at going straight up on D and there are a ton of non-calls as a result. It is definitely fun watching him frustrate a 2 time MVP.
What's amazing is that he came in with offense as a strength and defense as a weakness. Pretty quickly it swapped. I don't think I've ver seen that before. Usually players that stick in the league stick around because they focus on their strengths.
Its exciting in a way, because you tend to believe he can get that offence back sine he had it before.
Saberestar wrote:Really happy with Ayton's toughness.
He played with some pain (shoulder) again in the last one, he wants to be on the court no matter what. Nice to see it, the guy is looking more and more like a warrior.
sunsbg wrote:Saberestar wrote:Really happy with Ayton's toughness.
He played with some pain (shoulder) again in the last one, he wants to be on the court no matter what. Nice to see it, the guy is looking more and more like a warrior.
He appears to have some chronic issue with the shoulder. Small contact caused him same problem as in two other games. Fortunately it appears the pain is gone soon enough so he can continue to play.
Over his past 17 games, he is averaging 17.5 points, 10.5 rebounds, 1.2 blocks and 0.8 steals with a 70.7 true-shooting percentage, helping guide Phoenix to a 14-3 record during that span. A simplified offensive role, encouraging him to trim the fat off his shot profile and focus on maximizing his physical tools as a scorer and however else required, is laying the groundwork for a midseason progression.Spoiler:
Playing alongside two All-Star ball-handlers, each of whom manipulate defenses with pace, craft and scoring, Ayton provides a mammoth lob threat. He’s timing his rolls properly, floats off the ground seamlessly and corrals passes with his 7-foot-6 wingspan and a wide catch radius. Both Paul and Book can just toss the ball near his zip code and quite often, Ayton delivers.
When his path toward a basket is confronted with a roadblock, mandating he power through, over or around defenses to score. For someone of his tools and physical dimensions, those instances have led him to wilt or caused a sputtered decision-making process in which defenders recover to swarm him. He’d shy away from contact and burp up hurried hook shots or ill-advised fadeaways. The outcome wasn’t optimal as frequently as it should be.
He is 7 feet, 250 pounds. Few guys should stymie him on the roll or deep catches in the post. Upon this blossoming, he’s embracing contact, acting promptly with the ball in his hands and stepping through post touches rather than stepping back. A mentality shift is occurring, which is empowering Ayton in this role as a play finisher where his time of possession comes in short spurts and the Suns rely on him to maximize those opportunities.
Success around the rim has been a staple of his interior excellence each year. He shot 70.6% at the rim as a rookie, 66.0% last season and is up to 71.1% this season – 13th in the league among those who have played at least 40 games. The tweak is a refusal to settle, boosting his percentage of field-goal attempts in the restricted area to a career-high 54.4%. He has almost entirely eliminated mid-range jumpers, which are down to 16.1% of his field-goal attempts after sitting at 28.6 and 25.4 in his first two seasons – shots of which he’s never connected on better than 38%.
Deandre Ayton: Field-Goal Attempts by Location
Distance 2018-19 2019-20 2020-21
% of FGA in Restricted Area 47.2 44.7 54.4
% of FGA From Paint 70.9 72.4 80.6
% of FGA From Mid-Range 28.6 25.4 16.1
2-PT% From 14+ Feet 34.7 37.4 39.3
Phoenix has, more or less, boasted a top-five defense the entire season. Individual talent, with guys like Mikal Bridges, Jae Crowder, Cameron Payne, Jevon Carter, Paul and Ayton, are the foundation and the sum of those skills is best reflected in ball-screen coverage. Bridges, Payne and Paul set the tone at the point of attack by snaking around screens to stay attached. Crowder and Paul are pests at the nail. Still, Ayton is the exclamation point of this elite pick-and-roll defense.
The tone-setters do not isolate him in 2-on-1 scenarios, backpedaling against fiery downhill drives. He typically stations at the free-throw line, equipped to deter mid-range pull-ups with perimeter defenders dissuading off-the-bounce triples. Ayton smoothly covers ground laterally, vertically contests shots and mucks up pocket passes, floaters and lobs with lively hands. Anthony Davis and Rudy Gobert are the modern gold standard for mobility, activity and wide-ranging ground coverage for pick-and-roll big men, but Ayton is showing he could possibly approximate that level down the line. He’s already flustered a litany of All-Star ball-handlers, big and small, in his third year.
Saberestar wrote:5 blocks in the last game. A couple of them were nasty.
Bogyo wrote:"Playing alongside two All-Star ball-handlers, each of whom manipulate defenses with pace, craft and scoring, Ayton provides a mammoth lob threat. He’s timing his rolls properly, floats off the ground seamlessly and corrals passes with his 7-foot-6 wingspan and a wide catch radius. Both Paul and Book can just toss the ball near his zip code and quite often, Ayton delivers."
" Upon this blossoming, he’s embracing contact, acting promptly with the ball in his hands and stepping through post touches rather than stepping back."
hmmmm...
The rest we can agree on - although I still feel like his agent paid for this article so he can put it on the table come contract negotiation time
