Season Speculation, Trade Ideas and Discussion

[bwgood77]

Maybe wishful thinking, but I have a feeling we'll end up with some trade involving Knight and something (Miami pick, Tucker) for Okafor. We have too many guards. They have too many bigs. Colangelo hates the "trust the process" mentality, and Knight has good raw numbers as a starter and is a young vet. Tucker is the type he would like.

Imagine if we kept our pick this year and lucked into Fultz:

Bledsoe/Fultz
Booker/Fultz
Warren/Bender
Chriss/Bender
Okafor/Len

Plus Dudley somewhere in there. Chandler probably gets moved elsewhere in this scenario.

Okafor was BY FAR the worst defender in the league for bigs last year. Like twice as bad as the next worst guy out of a big list. This year he is really unimpressive offensively and rebounding as well. 46% shooter, 54% from the line. Under 4 boards a game, but 7 per 36.

Loved him in college and hope he would thrive if not having to play with Noel or Embiid, but he certainly hasn't been impressive. Though he's worth Knight for sure and on a rookie contract so I'd still give it a shot. Wouldn't expect a ton though, despite probably some big games.

Would rather have great rim protector and rebounder and someone who is mobile, quick, and possibly with range. Yes, that's a lot to ask for, but that would be my preference with our wings being primary scorers.

Wouldn't mind a future frontcourt with Markannen either...already thick so could play center but can also stretch the floor, and score well...tons of versatility.

Love a good PG in the draft too though. Once again, Lakers pick would be a nice thing to have, even if it's the 13th-15th pick (which I didn't expect but they should regress some).

[thamadkant]

Knight and Tucker for Danny Green

[AtheJ415]

Maybe wishful thinking, but I have a feeling we'll end up with some trade involving Knight and something (Miami pick, Tucker) for Okafor. We have too many guards. They have too many bigs. Colangelo hates the "trust the process" mentality, and Knight has good raw numbers as a starter and is a young vet. Tucker is the type he would like.

Imagine if we kept our pick this year and lucked into Fultz:

Bledsoe/Fultz
Booker/Fultz
Warren/Bender
Chriss/Bender
Okafor/Len

Plus Dudley somewhere in there. Chandler probably gets moved elsewhere in this scenario.

Okafor was BY FAR the worst defender in the league for bigs last year. Like twice as bad as the next worst guy out of a big list. This year he is really unimpressive offensively and rebounding as well. 46% shooter, 54% from the line. Under 4 boards a game, but 7 per 36.

Loved him in college and hope he would thrive if not having to play with Noel or Embiid, but he certainly hasn't been impressive. Though he's worth Knight for sure and on a rookie contract so I'd still give it a shot. Wouldn't expect a ton though, despite probably some big games.

Would rather have great rim protector and rebounder and someone who is mobile, quick, and possibly with range. Yes, that's a lot to ask for, but that would be my preference with our wings being primary scorers.

Wouldn't mind a future frontcourt with Markannen either...already thick so could play center but can also stretch the floor, and score well...tons of versatility.

Love a good PG in the draft too though. Once again, Lakers pick would be a nice thing to have, even if it's the 13th-15th pick (which I didn't expect but they should regress some).

I understand Okafor is grossly overrated and I'm not sure I want him because I see Enes Kanter in his future. That said, he does have more value than his current production due to upside and draft position (shouldn't matter but it does to an extent due to team's investment) and what I offered imo is not particularly good (Tucker, Knight). I just think we are going to move both Tucker and Knight, and come deadline time, Philly may be the only team interested in those 2 due to Colangelo.

To me the alternative would be trading Knight for an equal contract who has comparable holes in his game (like a Tyreke Evans or something), which I'm not at all interested in, and Tucker for a late first from a playoff team, which is less valuable than somebody like Okafor imo.

[asudevil]

Maybe wishful thinking, but I have a feeling we'll end up with some trade involving Knight and something (Miami pick, Tucker) for Okafor. We have too many guards. They have too many bigs. Colangelo hates the "trust the process" mentality, and Knight has good raw numbers as a starter and is a young vet. Tucker is the type he would like.

Imagine if we kept our pick this year and lucked into Fultz:

Bledsoe/Fultz
Booker/Fultz
Warren/Bender
Chriss/Bender
Okafor/Len

Plus Dudley somewhere in there. Chandler probably gets moved elsewhere in this scenario.

Okafor was BY FAR the worst defender in the league for bigs last year. Like twice as bad as the next worst guy out of a big list. This year he is really unimpressive offensively and rebounding as well. 46% shooter, 54% from the line. Under 4 boards a game, but 7 per 36.

Loved him in college and hope he would thrive if not having to play with Noel or Embiid, but he certainly hasn't been impressive. Though he's worth Knight for sure and on a rookie contract so I'd still give it a shot. Wouldn't expect a ton though, despite probably some big games.

Would rather have great rim protector and rebounder and someone who is mobile, quick, and possibly with range. Yes, that's a lot to ask for, but that would be my preference with our wings being primary scorers.

Wouldn't mind a future frontcourt with Markannen either...already thick so could play center but can also stretch the floor, and score well...tons of versatility.

Love a good PG in the draft too though. Once again, Lakers pick would be a nice thing to have, even if it's the 13th-15th pick (which I didn't expect but they should regress some).

For me:

This team has PLENTY of potential scoring at every other position other the C.....and we dont need scoring. We need rim protection and rebounding. Chandler, IMO, can fill that void or at least a formidable bench role until his contract expires. There is no need to trade him because his contract isnt THAT bad. And his vet leadership is needed right now.

So you ask yourself: is there a younger Chandler out there? Or, are you willing to pay more (contract/assets) that will give you someone young that can do the same as him. Comparing Len vs Okafor at one time made sense, but Okafor right now gives us more of what we DONT need and less of what we DO need. Len vs Noel sparks some discussion.....but are the assets needed to get him and his probable MAX contract worth it?

Sparking discussion:

Suns trade:
Len/Knight
Suns get:
Noel/Hezonja

Magic trade:
Vucevic/Hezonja
Magic get:
Knight/Len

Sixers trade:
Noel
Sixers get:
Vucevic

[bwgood77]

Maybe wishful thinking, but I have a feeling we'll end up with some trade involving Knight and something (Miami pick, Tucker) for Okafor. We have too many guards. They have too many bigs. Colangelo hates the "trust the process" mentality, and Knight has good raw numbers as a starter and is a young vet. Tucker is the type he would like.

Imagine if we kept our pick this year and lucked into Fultz:

Bledsoe/Fultz
Booker/Fultz
Warren/Bender
Chriss/Bender
Okafor/Len

Plus Dudley somewhere in there. Chandler probably gets moved elsewhere in this scenario.

Okafor was BY FAR the worst defender in the league for bigs last year. Like twice as bad as the next worst guy out of a big list. This year he is really unimpressive offensively and rebounding as well. 46% shooter, 54% from the line. Under 4 boards a game, but 7 per 36.

Loved him in college and hope he would thrive if not having to play with Noel or Embiid, but he certainly hasn't been impressive. Though he's worth Knight for sure and on a rookie contract so I'd still give it a shot. Wouldn't expect a ton though, despite probably some big games.

Would rather have great rim protector and rebounder and someone who is mobile, quick, and possibly with range. Yes, that's a lot to ask for, but that would be my preference with our wings being primary scorers.

Wouldn't mind a future frontcourt with Markannen either...already thick so could play center but can also stretch the floor, and score well...tons of versatility.

Love a good PG in the draft too though. Once again, Lakers pick would be a nice thing to have, even if it's the 13th-15th pick (which I didn't expect but they should regress some).

For me:

This team has PLENTY of potential scoring at every other position other the C.....and we dont need scoring. We need rim protection and rebounding. Chandler, IMO, can fill that void or at least a formidable bench role until his contract expires. There is no need to trade him because his contract isnt THAT bad. And his vet leadership is needed right now.

So you ask yourself: is there a younger Chandler out there? Or, are you willing to pay more (contract/assets) that will give you someone young that can do the same as him. Comparing Len vs Okafor at one time made sense, but Okafor right now gives us more of what we DONT need and less of what we DO need. Len vs Noel sparks some discussion.....but are the assets needed to get him and his probable MAX contract worth it?

Sparking discussion:

Suns trade:
Len/Knight
Suns get:
Noel/Hezonja

Magic trade:
Vucevic/Hezonja
Magic get:
Knight/Len

Sixers trade:
Noel
Sixers get:
Vucevic

That's terrible for the Magic. They'd never trade Hezonja for those guys. They may want to trade Vucevic for a package like that though. Hezonja is like their Booker, but didn't get to play a bunch due to tons of injuries (not saying he is as good or will be but was drafted quite a bit ahead of him, is still young and raw and only early in his 2nd year so they wouldn't just give up on him).

[kennydorglas]

Okafor was BY FAR the worst defender in the league for bigs last year. Like twice as bad as the next worst guy out of a big list. This year he is really unimpressive offensively and rebounding as well. 46% shooter, 54% from the line. Under 4 boards a game, but 7 per 36.

Loved him in college and hope he would thrive if not having to play with Noel or Embiid, but he certainly hasn't been impressive. Though he's worth Knight for sure and on a rookie contract so I'd still give it a shot. Wouldn't expect a ton though, despite probably some big games.

Would rather have great rim protector and rebounder and someone who is mobile, quick, and possibly with range. Yes, that's a lot to ask for, but that would be my preference with our wings being primary scorers.

Wouldn't mind a future frontcourt with Markannen either...already thick so could play center but can also stretch the floor, and score well...tons of versatility.

Love a good PG in the draft too though. Once again, Lakers pick would be a nice thing to have, even if it's the 13th-15th pick (which I didn't expect but they should regress some).

For me:

This team has PLENTY of potential scoring at every other position other the C.....and we dont need scoring. We need rim protection and rebounding. Chandler, IMO, can fill that void or at least a formidable bench role until his contract expires. There is no need to trade him because his contract isnt THAT bad. And his vet leadership is needed right now.

So you ask yourself: is there a younger Chandler out there? Or, are you willing to pay more (contract/assets) that will give you someone young that can do the same as him. Comparing Len vs Okafor at one time made sense, but Okafor right now gives us more of what we DONT need and less of what we DO need. Len vs Noel sparks some discussion.....but are the assets needed to get him and his probable MAX contract worth it?

Sparking discussion:

Suns trade:
Len/Knight
Suns get:
Noel/Hezonja

Magic trade:
Vucevic/Hezonja
Magic get:
Knight/Len

Sixers trade:
Noel
Sixers get:
Vucevic

That's terrible for the Magic. They'd never trade Hezonja for those guys. They may want to trade Vucevic for a package like that though. Hezonja is like their Booker, but didn't get to play a bunch due to tons of injuries (not saying he is as good or will be but was drafted quite a bit ahead of him, is still young and raw and only early in his 2nd year so they wouldn't just give up on him).

There's a lot of Orlando fans calling him a bust tho. Much more than I'd imagine for.

[bwgood77]

For me:

This team has PLENTY of potential scoring at every other position other the C.....and we dont need scoring. We need rim protection and rebounding. Chandler, IMO, can fill that void or at least a formidable bench role until his contract expires. There is no need to trade him because his contract isnt THAT bad. And his vet leadership is needed right now.

So you ask yourself: is there a younger Chandler out there? Or, are you willing to pay more (contract/assets) that will give you someone young that can do the same as him. Comparing Len vs Okafor at one time made sense, but Okafor right now gives us more of what we DONT need and less of what we DO need. Len vs Noel sparks some discussion.....but are the assets needed to get him and his probable MAX contract worth it?

Sparking discussion:

Suns trade:
Len/Knight
Suns get:
Noel/Hezonja

Magic trade:
Vucevic/Hezonja
Magic get:
Knight/Len

Sixers trade:
Noel
Sixers get:
Vucevic

That's terrible for the Magic. They'd never trade Hezonja for those guys. They may want to trade Vucevic for a package like that though. Hezonja is like their Booker, but didn't get to play a bunch due to tons of injuries (not saying he is as good or will be but was drafted quite a bit ahead of him, is still young and raw and only early in his 2nd year so they wouldn't just give up on him).

There's a lot of Orlando fans calling him a bust tho. Much more than I'd imagine for.

That's only because they are jumping to conclusions too fast and see guys like Booker playing a ton (and he only played due to injuries). Last year Mario was behind Fournier (playing VERY well) and Dipo. Now Fournier plays the 2 but Gordon is playing the 3.

He may end up being a bust, but it's too early, and certainly too early to trade him. I could see them wanting Knight, but to give up on that draft pick would be short sighted imo. I loved Mario in the draft but I'm not sure we need him unless we felt he would be a good backup at the 2 and Knight was gone.

[JJ13]

Bledsoe+pick(s) for John Wall

[kennydorglas]

That's terrible for the Magic. They'd never trade Hezonja for those guys. They may want to trade Vucevic for a package like that though. Hezonja is like their Booker, but didn't get to play a bunch due to tons of injuries (not saying he is as good or will be but was drafted quite a bit ahead of him, is still young and raw and only early in his 2nd year so they wouldn't just give up on him).

There's a lot of Orlando fans calling him a bust tho. Much more than I'd imagine for.

That's only because they are jumping to conclusions too fast and see guys like Booker playing a ton (and he only played due to injuries). Last year Mario was behind Fournier (playing VERY well) and Dipo. Now Fournier plays the 2 but Gordon is playing the 3.

He may end up being a bust, but it's too early, and certainly too early to trade him. I could see them wanting Knight, but to give up on that draft pick would be short sighted imo. I loved Mario in the draft but I'm not sure we need him unless we felt he would be a good backup at the 2 and Knight was gone.

Yeah, Mario is very good. I didnt think he'd need much time to stabilize in the league, so this is definitely a cause of concern.
Seeing Porzingis projecting to stardom before him is really weird. I always thought Mario was one of the surest things in that Draft.

[bwgood77]

b-ref gives us a 12% chance of winning the next one.

Today's Games

Portland (23%) @ Houston (77%) 8:00 PM
Milwaukee (42%) @ Miami (58%) 7:30 PM
Philadelphia (4%) @ Minnesota (96%) 8:00 PM
Chicago (51%) @ Utah (49%) 10:30 PM
New York (41%) @ Washington (59%) 7:00 PM
Nov 18, 2016 Games

Golden State (63%) @ Boston (37%) 8:00 PM
Atlanta (54%) @ Charlotte (46%) 7:00 PM
Detroit (34%) @ Cleveland (66%) 7:30 PM
Memphis (60%) @ Dallas (40%) 8:30 PM
Toronto (73%) @ Denver (27%) 9:00 PM
Phoenix (12%) @ Indiana (88%) 7:00 PM
San Antonio (63%) @ LA Lakers (37%) 10:30 PM
Portland (74%) @ New Orleans (26%) 8:00 PM
Brooklyn (26%) @ Oklahoma City (74%) 8:00 PM
LA Clippers (89%) @ Sacramento (11%) 10:30 PM

http://www.basketball-reference.com/

[GetYourPHX]

Well, this season has turned out exactly the way we thought it would. This team just isn't good, and that's fine, but it's time to start posting the "fire sale" rebuild type trades on RealGM. Here's my first shot.

Trade 1 - Phoenix and Denver

Denver has a lot of young assets that I like. They also have a lot of cap room next year and they're on the cusp of being able to put together a really good team. They need to consolidate assets. This is my trade with them.

Phoenix sends - Bledsoe, Len
Denver sends - Mudiay, Hernangomez, Nurkic

I know we're giving up a lot, but remember, this is a fire sale rebuild. I don't mind Len as a player, but he's going to cost too much next year. His deficiencies as an offensive player on the low block make him a poor fit next to Booker. I love Nurk and Hernangomez. Nurk is just such wrecking ball on both ends of the floor with a sky high ceiling. Hernangomez gives us another Bender type sf/pf hybrid with a great all around game. He's contributing when he sees the court this year, and while he has a way to go, he could turn into a solid player. I don't really like Mudiay, and I think his ceiling is a poor man's Rubio/Rondo type player, but if we're trading Bled we need to get a PG back in return. Mudiay + shooters could be cool.

Trade 2 - Phoenix and OKC

Phoenix sends - Chandler, Knight, Tucker
OKC sends - Kanter, Collison, Morrow

OKC immediately upgrades their firepower and gets ready for a playoff run. Kanter is a flawed player, but his per minute stats are tantalizing. I think he's being criminally underused in OKC because he sucks on defense, but I'd love to see him put up numbers on a young Suns team. Chandler/Tucker would give OKC a whole lot of nastiness off the bench and fit in with the us against the world mentality they have going on over there this year.

That makes the new Suns roster -

Mudiay/Ulis
Booker/Barbosa/Morrow/Jenkins
Warren/Bender/Hernangomez
Dudley/Chriss/Collison
Nurk/Kanter/Willimams

This team locks us into a top 5 pick and gives us more options for the future. We're not going to be good in the next three years with the roster we have, so why not keep churning until we find something that works.

I'm sure I'll get to post a bunch more of these over the next 5 months.

[Zelaznyrules]

Well, this season has turned out exactly the way we thought it would. This team just isn't good, and that's fine, but it's time to start posting the "fire sale" rebuild type trades on RealGM. Here's my first shot.

Trade 1 - Phoenix and Denver

Denver has a lot of young assets that I like. They also have a lot of cap room next year and they're on the cusp of being able to put together a really good team. They need to consolidate assets. This is my trade with them.

Phoenix sends - Bledsoe, Len
Denver sends - Mudiay, Hernangomez, Nurkic

I know we're giving up a lot, but remember, this is a fire sale rebuild. I don't mind Len as a player, but he's going to cost too much next year. His deficiencies as an offensive player on the low block make him a poor fit next to Booker. I love Nurk and Hernangomez. Nurk is just such wrecking ball on both ends of the floor with a sky high ceiling. Hernangomez gives us another Bender type sf/pf hybrid with a great all around game. He's contributing when he sees the court this year, and while he has a way to go, he could turn into a solid player. I don't really like Mudiay, and I think his ceiling is a poor man's Rubio/Rondo type player, but if we're trading Bled we need to get a PG back in return. Mudiay + shooters could be cool.

I think they would want a lot more than Bledsoe and Len, even if the deal was just for Nurkic.

[OnceUponADime]

Mudiay honestly sucks. I think Tyler Ulis will be better than than him despite him being much shorter.

[OnceUponADime]

If we had a chance to get either Wall or Cousins (but not both), who would you guys prefer we get?

I'd take Wall just cause I think having a pass first PG for the first time since Nash days will be a joy for this team. He can't shoot but next to Booker, I think it should be fine. He can make others better and I think guys like Warren and Chriss will find a lot easier buckets with him as well. Also, he doesn't have any temperamental issues like Cousins.

I'd give them Bledsoe,Knight, Len, Tucker the top 8 protected Miami 1st for Wall and any bad contract they have (Mahimi?).

[Damkac]

Maybe wishful thinking, but I have a feeling we'll end up with some trade involving Knight and something (Miami pick, Tucker) for Okafor. We have too many guards. They have too many bigs. Colangelo hates the "trust the process" mentality, and Knight has good raw numbers as a starter and is a young vet. Tucker is the type he would like.

Imagine if we kept our pick this year and lucked into Fultz:

Bledsoe/Fultz
Booker/Fultz
Warren/Bender
Chriss/Bender
Okafor/Len

Plus Dudley somewhere in there. Chandler probably gets moved elsewhere in this scenario.

Okafor was BY FAR the worst defender in the league for bigs last year. Like twice as bad as the next worst guy out of a big list. This year he is really unimpressive offensively and rebounding as well. 46% shooter, 54% from the line. Under 4 boards a game, but 7 per 36.

Loved him in college and hope he would thrive if not having to play with Noel or Embiid, but he certainly hasn't been impressive. Though he's worth Knight for sure and on a rookie contract so I'd still give it a shot. Wouldn't expect a ton though, despite probably some big games.

Would rather have great rim protector and rebounder and someone who is mobile, quick, and possibly with range. Yes, that's a lot to ask for, but that would be my preference with our wings being primary scorers.

Wouldn't mind a future frontcourt with Markannen either...already thick so could play center but can also stretch the floor, and score well...tons of versatility.

Love a good PG in the draft too though. Once again, Lakers pick would be a nice thing to have, even if it's the 13th-15th pick (which I didn't expect but they should regress some).

I don't know if this means anything but I find it interesting that Philly fan don't have Okafor in top 10 in his redraft:
http://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?p=50043129#p50043129

[AtheJ415]

If we had a chance to get either Wall or Cousins (but not both), who would you guys prefer we get?

I'd take Wall just cause I think having a pass first PG for the first time since Nash days will be a joy for this team. He can't shoot but next to Booker, I think it should be fine. He can make others better and I think guys like Warren and Chriss will find a lot easier buckets with him as well. Also, he doesn't have any temperamental issues like Cousins.

I'd give them Bledsoe,Knight, Len, Tucker the top 8 protected Miami 1st for Wall and any bad contract they have (Mahimi?).

I'd take Cousins. Wall isn't that great an upgrade over Bledsoe compared to Cousins over both of our guys. Also, this next draft has a ton of 1s in it, and big guys are harder to find imo.

[grumpysaddle]

Maybe we can give teams like WAS, DAL, MIA, NOP Tucker or Knight and they can win a little more. I really think Knight can be a net positive in another environment, like the Mavs with Carlisle, Wiz with Brooks, or Magic with Vogel.

I think the Wiz will make a big play for Cousins...Beal, Oubre, a pick or two maybe. I'm sure he's want to play with Wall and good out of the west too.

Wall and Boogie sort of deserved the chance to play with each other. And better the Wizards than us tbh. Im all in tanking for Fultz/Smith/Jackson this year and Ayton/Bamba next year

Im genuinely curious though, how much of Suns fans would prefer to cash in on Cousins as opposed to continuing the tank?

Is there a difference? Sacramento unintentionally tanks every season they've had him.

[lilfishi22]

Mudiay honestly sucks. I think Tyler Ulis will be better than than him despite him being much shorter.

Agreed. Mudiay does nothing for me. Looking at the stats (advs and simple), he doesn't move the needle defensively and he absolutely stinks offensively. Super turnover prone as well. He's 5th in the league in TO's and but doesn't even touch 1:1 ast/TO ratio.

[lilfishi22]

If we had a chance to get either Wall or Cousins (but not both), who would you guys prefer we get?

I'd take Wall just cause I think having a pass first PG for the first time since Nash days will be a joy for this team. He can't shoot but next to Booker, I think it should be fine. He can make others better and I think guys like Warren and Chriss will find a lot easier buckets with him as well. Also, he doesn't have any temperamental issues like Cousins.

I'd give them Bledsoe,Knight, Len, Tucker the top 8 protected Miami 1st for Wall and any bad contract they have (Mahimi?).

I love Wall, I'd have him on my team any day of the week. But we're comparing a guard to a big and you have to go with the big with elite talent.

[OGBAH]

So saying we're not thinking about trading Knight means start the bidding war right?