2020 Offseason Speculation, free agency, summer trades (keep draft prospect talk in draft thread)

[Blonde]

Most everyone I’ve seen is massively overvaluing Markkanen. I’d love him if the price is right, but giving up multiple firsts and good young role players is way too rich for someone with as many questions as Lauri.

[Jdiddy701]

Most everyone I’ve seen is massively overvaluing Markkanen. I’d love him if the price is right, but giving up multiple firsts and good young role players is way too rich for someone with as many questions as Lauri.

I’d be okay with trading our first round pick next year for him. I would not trade Oubre for him.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[IzzyT]

The raw box score numbers aren’t that different between Dirk and Lauri, but the impact numbers are worlds apart. Dirk was anchoring a 50+ win team in Year 3. The Bulls are terrible and Lauri has been nowhere near their best player. He’s actually regressed this year. Some talk of him paying hurt, but it is what it is. Their coach is probably worst in the entire NBA.

[Ghost of Kleine]

If Lauri is is available you gotta make a play. Anyone or thing outside of book, bridges and Ayton is on the table for him.

Like was said above Oubre for Sato/Markkanen works cap wise. Not sure if the Suns would need to throw in a draft pick or not

The Bulls are set up for cap space in the summer of 2021 as it is now as Felicio is done and Young/Sato both have options in the summer of 2021. They might want Oubre to play the 3 so Carter can play the 4.

I think the Suns need to look into this one if true ML wants out of Chicago.

I would prefer to keep Oubre but understand to get you have to give .

I'm not too sure that we could get Sato included, As he's their starting guard and they've been cycling through many guards, Just trying to find one that sticks. Now Dunn is restricted but is a really good defender and is fast and athletic. And they will definitely want the cap space, As they really are quietly coveting the cap space for 2021 in order to chase Anthony Davis ( primary target) and Giannis, etc. So we'd likely have to take back Young ( as he's only owed 7 million in 2021) But in taking him back, They'd save an additional 7 million for that summer.

Also, Even though I really like Oubre, I'd have him as the centerpiece of the deal, Mainly because He's going to be getting a major payday in 2021 to the tune of over 20+ million or more. Also with Bridges showing major improvements whenst he starts, That makes Oubre somewhat expendable at such a high pricetag, Which becomes a eventual monetary detriment to us, When taking into consideration our impending extensions as well. So ultimately, My best offer ( And final offer) would be Oubre, Kaminsky, Okobo and two firsts:
- A 2020 top 3 protected first.
- A 2023 top 5 protected first.

*** And I'd take back ONE bad contract. Either Felicio or Young, But NOT BOTH. So our trade return would essentially be:

Thaddeus Young/ Lauri Markkanen/ Kris Dunn. We now have our starting 4 and a quality veteran backup 4. Then we can rescind ( or renounce the qualifying offer for Dunn, Now giving us around 28-29 million I believe??

And for 2020, We just look to add depth at shooting guard and backup guard. I'd offer Joe Harris around (10 million). And then offer Van Fleet around 13-14 million, Last, I'd offer Bryn Forbes around 4-5 million ( to be our 6th man scorer off the bench). Then once we use sign all of our free agents, I'd use our bird rights to resign Baynes. So IF everything goes as planned. Our post free agency roster heading into the season would now look like:

- Rubio/ Fred Van Fleet/ Carter.
- Booker/ Harris/ Bryn Forbes.
- Bridges/ Cam / Harris.
- Markannen/ Young/ Diallo.
- Ayton/ Baynes/ ***( Nerlens Noel or Dwight Howard using the Taxpayer midlevel exception)???

[bwgood77]

You have to protect any pick to 4, since you can jump 4 spots, and going to 5 doesn't really help.

I will say I have always liked Markkanen, being a UA guy, and I think he'd be a nice stretch 4, however, his defense is not good, and although I think he will/would improve, he has been pretty much the same every year. His 3 pt % hasn't dropped off THAT much, but his assists and steals are trending slightly upward. His rebounding has taken a hit, but I think that's more of having Wendell Carter in there full time this year (though I guess Robin Lopez is a pretty good rebounder too).

Then I go to Gordon. Not the 3 pt shooter, though he did shoot better last year than Markkanen is this year, but I guess the good thing about Markkanen is that he always does it on very high volume, and his shot can't really be blocked. But mostly Gordon is the far superior defender, and even though not great, much better than Lauri, and I think his pick and roll game with Rubio or Booker would be much better...he is certainly not shy from dunking it.

And while I think Markkanen would improve in a new setting, you have to think of Orlando guys with new scenery (Oladipo, Sabonis, Harris). It's crazy to think Oladipo and Sabonis were traded for a half season of Ibaka.

But Orlando has never had floor spacers. They have Fournier and Ross, but Fultz obviously can't shoot. Vucevic is decent but they always feel like they need more shooters/scorers and this probably forces Gordon to try and do too much offensively, and he has played a lot out of position.

Looking at their #s last year, Gordon was probably better overall. http://bkref.com/tiny/Dgjc2

One great thing is that Gordon is a much better passer, and I like ball movement. Though Lauri likely doesn't need to pass as much given that he takes a lot of spot up 3s.

Lauri feels like the better player, and both are having down years this year, particularly Gordon, but it's somewhat a tough call if we were choosing between them.

[suns12345]

Man, the way Aaron Gordon gets screwed by the refs, it's like he's a Phoenix Sun already.

Dwayne Wade **** him over badly. All the judges agreed on making it a tie and DWade changed his score at the last second to give his old teammate a win.

DJJ is a smug idiot too based on his disgraceful comments after the dunk contest. He did the same exact dunk like 5 times in a row and didn’t even clear the FT line on his last one.

On the plus side, Aaron Gordon is an actual NBA starter while DJJ is a nobody that’s only ever relevant during the dunk contest. DJJ’s stats for his last game is hilarious, 0 pts, 0 assists, 2 rebounds and 5 fouls in 24 mins. At the end of day, Gordon still wins.

Savage haha, but true.

He did just keep doing the between the legs dunk.

What were his comments after the contest? I didn't hear them

[Jdiddy701]

Man...... I’m changing my mind. Chris Paul would do a lot good stuff in Phoenix. His contract is so bad but he’s a huge upgrade to Rubio.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[sunskerr]

But Orlando has never had floor spacers. They have Fournier and Ross, but Fultz obviously can't shoot. Vucevic is decent but they always feel like they need more shooters/scorers and this probably forces Gordon to try and do too much offensively, and he has played a lot out of position

Well the spacing certainly wouldn't get any better in Phoenix since our spacing is bad enough with Rubio and Ayton, and adding Gordon to that would make it worse.

[bwgood77]

But Orlando has never had floor spacers. They have Fournier and Ross, but Fultz obviously can't shoot. Vucevic is decent but they always feel like they need more shooters/scorers and this probably forces Gordon to try and do too much offensively, and he has played a lot out of position

Well the spacing certainly wouldn't get any better in Phoenix since our spacing is bad enough with Rubio and Ayton, and adding Gordon to that would make it worse.

It depends on whether he bounced back to last year's #s or improved playing with more floor spacers and guys that attract double teams like Booker and Ayton. Of course I'd rather have a 40% defensive PF, which is why I bring up Millsap for a year and hopefully someone we can draft, but few PFs hit at that rate. Between Markkanen and Gordon you trade a little 3 pt shooting probably for better defense and ball movement, and another nice finisher inside.

[sunskerr]

But Orlando has never had floor spacers. They have Fournier and Ross, but Fultz obviously can't shoot. Vucevic is decent but they always feel like they need more shooters/scorers and this probably forces Gordon to try and do too much offensively, and he has played a lot out of position

Well the spacing certainly wouldn't get any better in Phoenix since our spacing is bad enough with Rubio and Ayton, and adding Gordon to that would make it worse.

It depends on whether he bounced back to last year's #s or improved playing with more floor spacers and guys that attract double teams like Booker and Ayton. Of course I'd rather have a 40% defensive PF, which is why I bring up Millsap for a year and hopefully someone we can draft, but few PFs hit at that rate. Between Markkanen and Gordon you trade a little 3 pt shooting probably for better defense and ball movement, and another nice finisher inside.

I don't really have a preference towards either one, in regards to Markannen vs Gordon. Maybe I lean towards Markannen because I believe he's a better offensive guy, if we're sticking with Rubio (sigh). If we can upgrade Rubio then I like Aaron Gordon for his defense and ball movement like you said- he can really move his feet and we'd be flying with him and Oubre as our forwards. As for Millsap on a 1 year, to have any chance at it being worthwhile to position our contracts to create room for 2021 free agency, we HAVE to make the playoffs. It's hard to imagine a lineup of Rubio/Booker/Kelly/Millsap/Ayton getting in, unless the bench gets an improvement too.

Also does Ayton really attract double teams? Is there a stat for that, that we can compare to other big men? Also we'd need to parse out whether or not that's due to Rubio simply existing on the court allowing them to double up/pack the paint.

[bwgood77]

Well the spacing certainly wouldn't get any better in Phoenix since our spacing is bad enough with Rubio and Ayton, and adding Gordon to that would make it worse.

It depends on whether he bounced back to last year's #s or improved playing with more floor spacers and guys that attract double teams like Booker and Ayton. Of course I'd rather have a 40% defensive PF, which is why I bring up Millsap for a year and hopefully someone we can draft, but few PFs hit at that rate. Between Markkanen and Gordon you trade a little 3 pt shooting probably for better defense and ball movement, and another nice finisher inside.

I don't really have a preference towards either one, in regards to Markannen vs Gordon. Maybe I lean towards Markannen because I believe he's a better offensive guy, if we're sticking with Rubio (sigh). If we can upgrade Rubio then I like Aaron Gordon for his defense and ball movement like you said- he can really move his feet and we'd be flying with him and Oubre as our forwards. As for Millsap on a 1 year, to have any chance at it being worthwhile to position our contracts to create room for 2021 free agency, we HAVE to make the playoffs. It's hard to imagine a lineup of Rubio/Booker/Kelly/Millsap/Ayton getting in, unless the bench gets an improvement too.

Also does Ayton really attract double teams? Is there a stat for that, that we can compare to other big men? Also we'd need to parse out whether or not that's due to Rubio simply existing on the court allowing them to double up/pack the paint.

Yes, he does, but in large part because there is usually someone driving in, bringing a defender with him, since so many pass up the 3 to drive, and then if they dish it to Ayton, there is already a defender nearby. That's why he's fumbling more this year. Last year our 4s were at least taking 3s, and TJ was hitting at a high rate until he went down. Bender didn't shoot as well as the previous year, but he'd shoot them. Feels like Book shot more of them too and he was clobbered by defenders. I think Ayton had fewer guys around him inside which is why his FG% was so much higher. Feels like he was hitting better on his short and midrange shots too, but also had more opportunities for easy shots at the rim.

[Keith_myath]

Man, the way Aaron Gordon gets screwed by the refs, it's like he's a Phoenix Sun already.

Dwayne Wade **** him over badly. All the judges agreed on making it a tie and DWade changed his score at the last second to give his old teammate a win.

DJJ is a smug idiot too based on his disgraceful comments after the dunk contest. He did the same exact dunk like 5 times in a row and didn’t even clear the FT line on his last one.

On the plus side, Aaron Gordon is an actual NBA starter while DJJ is a nobody that’s only ever relevant during the dunk contest. DJJ’s stats for his last game is hilarious, 0 pts, 0 assists, 2 rebounds and 5 fouls in 24 mins. At the end of day, Gordon still wins.

You need to look up Brett Rainbow...

[WeekapaugGroove]

There's a forward who could play for the suns next season who averages more points, blocks, steals, shoots a better 3pt % than both Gordon or Lauri and is about an equal rebounder to both...... His name is Kelly Oubre.

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using RealGM mobile app

[bwoolf2]

There's a forward who could play for the suns next season who averages more points, blocks, steals, shoots a better 3pt % than both Gordon or Lauri and is about an equal rebounder to both...... His name is Kelly Oubre.

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using RealGM mobile app

Call me crazy but I don't feel like PF is our biggest need, I think once again it's PG, we can somehow flip Rubio a draft pick and some change for Chris Paul, and sign a decent backup big and PG this is a playoff team next year for sure. Ayton, Oubre, Bridges, Paul, Booker, that's a hell of a starting 5 could compete with anyone ...

[Kerrsed]

Read on Twitter

[Crives]

finding a backup guard should be more urgent then adding a high profile PF like Lauri or AG.

[bwgood77]

There's a forward who could play for the suns next season who averages more points, blocks, steals, shoots a better 3pt % than both Gordon or Lauri and is about an equal rebounder to both...... His name is Kelly Oubre.

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using RealGM mobile app

Yeah, if you expect the trends to continue, but with a lot of our frontcourt players out, it has helped with Oubre's rebounding (and he jumps in front of Ayton for the rebound some), then maybe. I like his energy though.

However, looking at their careers, Gordon has probably been the best player, followed by Lauri, even with their down years, and Kelly's up year http://bkref.com/tiny/l0puu

And if you go back and compare Gordon's 5th year (last year) and Lauri's last year before injury this year, and playing in Boylen's offense he hates, and compare them to Oubre this year, they are both far better rebounders http://bkref.com/tiny/l0puu and the 3 pt % is pretty close though Gordon still the better defender.

But it's all close, and with a lot of smaller ball, it might be the way to go with versatility. But I think it also comes down to how much money Kelly is looking for, and if it's over $20 million, I don't think it's worth it, even if you compare it to other overpaid players making $25 million a year, especially with the cap going down. But Lauri may want a lot of money anyway.

Ultimately, I don't think the Bulls will deal Lauri though, especially if they are making changes in their front office...their coach is surely gone this offseason. So then it would come down to who you would value more between Oubre and Gordon.

[bwgood77]

finding a backup guard should be more urgent then adding a high profile PF like Lauri or AG.

You like those 3 or 4 guard bench units?

[bwgood77]

Read on Twitter

[bwgood77]

Read on Twitter