2021-22 Season Discussion and Speculation

[Desertfox]

I would love to target Brandon Clarke right about now, maybe we can trade Jalen Smith for him? He's local, hell of a defender, and pretty good offensive skills. Gives the team a much different look at PF and works great with Kaminsky off the bench.

[Mulhollanddrive]

I have my own personal preferences (that probably won't happen):

Shamet, Smith for Beverley
Saric for Favors

Playoffs Rotation - Paul, Booker, Bridges, Crowder, Ayton / Payne, Beverley, Johnson, Favors

[BobbieL]

I have my own personal preferences (that probably won't happen):

Shamet, Smith for Beverley
Saric for Favors

Playoffs Rotation - Paul, Booker, Bridges, Crowder, Ayton / Payne, Beverley, Johnson, Favors

I do not think Shamet can be traded - well he can be traded but it would be his base year compensation and not his $10m that would be going out. So the Suns would be sending out $8m taking back $13 or 14m. So the Suns would need to add salary to the trade. Plus I think they like Shamet

The Thunder might do the Saric for Favors trade - saves them cash and they take a flier on Dario. I do wonder if the Spurs slide - do they buyout Thad Young or still want to do the possible trade of Smith/Saric for Young with Smith not being guaranteed nextyear.

[Jesus_H_Macy]

Is anyone else surprised that Shamet is shooting 40% from 3 this season? My eye test paints him as a shameless jacker but if he's at 40% then bombs away I suppose.

[Ghost of Kleine]

I have my own personal preferences (that probably won't happen):

Shamet, Smith for Beverley
Saric for Favors

Playoffs Rotation - Paul, Booker, Bridges, Crowder, Ayton / Payne, Beverley, Johnson, Favors

I'm sorry man! But I just gotta say.......................
...................


Solid idea man!
Granted there may be some reservations from Booker ( after the headbutt) and Paul ( after the shove), from last season's playoffs. But if the bigger picture is actually winning a title, Beverleys' constant intensity and relentless hard nosed nature could really amplify our defense ( as it has for the Wolves). He could be a really strong leader ( defensively) off the bench holding everyone accountable on that end. But also feeding our intensity when needed during those times wherein we get complacent and/ or apathetic. Lacking energy and allowing runs by opposing teams. And it would clear Shamets' salary in 23-24, As Beverleys' an unrestricted free agent in 2022.

And for Favors, I love it as an alternative option to Young with more size, still solid defense, and requiring less assets to obtain. I'm not really worried about his offense, As I believe he'd have a greater impact defensively alongside either Johnson or Kaminsky offensively. I also get that he'd not be off the books next summer like Young would. But he'd still become an expiring contract if he picks up his P.O. regardless. So we should be able to flip him if necessary.

The only real hard selling point to me would be trading both Shamet and Saric, As Monty really adores them both. And I don't think he'd sign off on it.

[Ghost of Kleine]

Valley of the Suns (@ValleyoftheSuns) Tweeted:
The @Suns have an embarrassment of riches at center with Deandre Ayton coming back and Frank Kaminsky's great play of late. Here's how they can get the best of them both. https://t.co/ki9B5t6Vw3

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[Revived]

They certainly haven't looked like themselves but they've had a pretty damn tough schedule to start the season. They were 4-3 prior to losing 5 straight but all of these 5 losses were against teams expected to be top tier playoff teams this season and only one game was at home.

There's probably a bit of a hangover from the deep run last season (similar to us) and the new defensive rules is impacting Trae more than probably 99% of NBA players because of his style but I just think they've had a really rough early schedule. We may have been in a similar situation if we didn't have a cakewalk of a schedule so far.

That makes our record so far a bit of a facade

I think the game tonight is our first one against a team with a winning record.

To be fair though I think teams like Lakers, Hawks and Blazers will all finish the season with winning records and Suns have beaten them so far.

[Ghost of Kleine]

Evan Sidery (@esidery) Tweeted:
Advanced metrics for the Suns over their six-game win streak:

- 110.8 OffRtg (7th)
- 102.8 DefRtg (8th)
- +8.1 NetRtg (3rd)

Doing this without Deandre Ayton for most of the stretch makes it even more impressive. Suns are clicking at an ideal time.

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[Ghost of Kleine]

Eustacchio Raulli (@EVR1022) Tweeted:
14 teams in NBA history have posted an eFG% 4.5 points better than league average. Six of those teams:

2005 Phoenix Suns
2006 Phoenix Suns
2007 Phoenix Suns
2008 Phoenix Suns
2009 Phoenix Suns
2010 Phoenix Suns

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[Mulhollanddrive]

We're tracking to where we want to be:

2nd Seed
8th Offensive Rating
12th Defensive Rating

Hopefully Ayton back soon to give us a defensive boost and into the top 10 for both.

NBA really did us a favour by giving us a soft start knowing we had a historically short break.

Booker tends to play in stretches (both good and bad) and hasn't really hit form yet so that is another lever we have.

[bwgood77]

We're tracking to where we want to be:

2nd Seed
8th Offensive Rating
12th Defensive Rating

Hopefully Ayton back soon to give us a defensive boost and into the top 10 for both.

NBA really did us a favour by giving us a soft start knowing we had a historically short break.

Booker tends to play in stretches (both good and bad) and hasn't really hit form yet so that is another lever we have.

Yep, all set up for that 2/7 rematch with the Lakers.

[Ghost of Kleine]

We're tracking to where we want to be:

2nd Seed
8th Offensive Rating
12th Defensive Rating

Hopefully Ayton back soon to give us a defensive boost and into the top 10 for both.

NBA really did us a favour by giving us a soft start knowing we had a historically short break.

Booker tends to play in stretches (both good and bad) and hasn't really hit form yet so that is another lever we have.

Yep, all set up for that 2/7 rematch with the Lakers.

How badly would that burn Lebron and Davis if we send them packing yet again in a similar scenario?!?!
All the Flakers fans would be going nuts with Suns PTSD!

Suns fans to Twitter fans once we send them packing for the 2nd straight time!

[sunskerr]

Lakers succkk lol I don't even have them marked on a calendar anymore.

[Puff]

I think the plan all along is to acquire KAT.... there is something about DA that doesn’t jive with James and Monty. Furthermore.... if Book has their ear, well, you know what he’s saying.

KAT seems less like what Monty and Jones would like though. Well, scratch that, I guess Jones loves 3 pt shooters. But the way Butler talked about KAT and Wiggins was that they just didn't take it seriously and didn't put in the effort. You see so many random posters on trade board and all over that watch him a lot just saying he is not a "winner" type and doesn't have that competitive type personality.

Now some seem to think that about Ayton, but he basically stepped up big on the biggest stage against the biggest competitors when it mattered and was one of, if not the major key in us advancing in the playoffs.

KAT got there once, but it was WITH Butler. KAT puts up numbers, sure, but he has never taken the team anywhere close to the playoffs except when Butler helped them get to the 8 seed.

I'm sure Booker would like to play with him though. For some reason I don't know that I see that duo taking us very far.

What in the world is this? Are you Ayton's agent?

KAT did not have CP3, Booker and Bridges. I expect he would flourish with those 3. The only question is who is going to replace CP3 when the time comes. That goes for both KAT or Ayton.

Ayton did squat until we got CP3 and he played in the playoffs. Most of you think Ayton was the main reason we accomplished anything during the playoffs. That is just wrong. He did his job, it was and is CP3's team, I do not know what you are watching.
Booker also did squat prior to acquiring CP3.

The wisest use of a max contract might be to acquire CP3's replacement not Ayton or KAT.

I think it is clear that James Jones is holding that max contract in his back pocket to use on the right player. If that player ends up being Ayton, so be it.

Ayton versus KAT - career numbers

Pts 15.9 - 22.9
2p% .595 - .568
3p% .195 - .397
TRB 10.7 - 11.5
AST 1.6 - 3.0
STL .7 - .8
BLK 1.1 -1.4

KAT has out performed Ayton in every offensive category without the help of CP3. I expect that Ayton's defensive numbers are better or that is what I am hearing. How much better, by the numbers is he? Not just what you think. Show me the numbers.

[sunsbg]

Ayton had better offensive numbers playing with Rubio. The notion he's a by product of CP3 is laughable and clearly shows the agenda of a few people here. KAT is a better offensive player obviously and still has not done squat while being two more years in the league and playing with multiple Nr 1 picks and a player like Butler. His shooting is not that valuable on this team, Ayton's D is certainly huge.

[bwgood77]

I think the plan all along is to acquire KAT.... there is something about DA that doesn’t jive with James and Monty. Furthermore.... if Book has their ear, well, you know what he’s saying.

KAT seems less like what Monty and Jones would like though. Well, scratch that, I guess Jones loves 3 pt shooters. But the way Butler talked about KAT and Wiggins was that they just didn't take it seriously and didn't put in the effort. You see so many random posters on trade board and all over that watch him a lot just saying he is not a "winner" type and doesn't have that competitive type personality.

Now some seem to think that about Ayton, but he basically stepped up big on the biggest stage against the biggest competitors when it mattered and was one of, if not the major key in us advancing in the playoffs.

KAT got there once, but it was WITH Butler. KAT puts up numbers, sure, but he has never taken the team anywhere close to the playoffs except when Butler helped them get to the 8 seed.

I'm sure Booker would like to play with him though. For some reason I don't know that I see that duo taking us very far.

What in the world is this? Are you Ayton's agent?

KAT did not have CP3, Booker and Bridges. I expect he would flourish with those 3. The only question is who is going to replace CP3 when the time comes. That goes for both KAT or Ayton.

Ayton did squat until we got CP3 and he played in the playoffs. Most of you think Ayton was the main reason we accomplished anything during the playoffs. That is just wrong. He did his job, it was and is CP3's team, I do not know what you are watching.
Booker also did squat prior to acquiring CP3.

The wisest use of a max contract might be to acquire CP3's replacement not Ayton or KAT.

I think it is clear that James Jones is holding that max contract in his back pocket to use on the right player. If that player ends up being Ayton, so be it.

Ayton versus KAT - career numbers

Pts 15.9 - 22.9
2p% .595 - .568
3p% .195 - .397
TRB 10.7 - 11.5
AST 1.6 - 3.0
STL .7 - .8
BLK 1.1 -1.4

KAT has out performed Ayton in every offensive category without the help of CP3. I expect that Ayton's defensive numbers are better or that is what I am hearing. How much better, by the numbers is he? Not just what you think. Show me the numbers.

Make no mistake, I think CP3 is our key right now. Without him, we go nowhere. He was our key in the playoffs, and even contrary to many beliefs, was our best player overall in the finals except game 4. The worst part was his turnovers. Ayton had a couple good early games and Book had good games in 4 and 5 outside of a crucial turnover near the end of one of them (5 I think). Paul was huge against Denver. But Ayton was very important and we also don't advance without him either.

I never said Ayton was better than KAT. KAT is better, but comparing their #s is pointless because they have different roles. KAT has always been the #1 option on a bad team who is a 3 pt specialist. Ayton plays his role and since Paul joined and they wanted him to focus on defensive improvement, he became a less focal part of the offense. Towns handles the ball and shoots more so scores more.

Their efficiency is similar. KAT is better at creating his own offense, but Ayton is better at contesting shots and defending multiple types of players.

It is weird because you see people argue about not wanting to spend a lot on a C and even you went on and on about what C GS has, LAC has, etc, and now you talk about Towns, a player you would want to be a bigger focal part of the offense.

I like Towns offensively because I love that he shoots 3s, can spread the floor, could open up the lane for our midrange shooters and cutters, like that he can pass, etc, and I think our offense would thrive. But I do think our defense would suffer. I think the way Butler talked about him holds weight.

And it's funny you mention he has no one to play with. He had Jimmy Butler and a guy you were raving about in another thread about the key for the Warriors, Andrew Wiggins.

He's had various teammates and players who have been decent including Butler, Russell, Rubio, Wiggins, Anthony Edwards, Teague, etc.

Anyway, the Wolves will not likely trade him to us this year and Ayton will be a FA this summer. We'd need to include another ton of salary to make a trade this year too.

[bwgood77]

Ayton had better offensive numbers playing with Rubio. The notion he's a by product of CP3 is laughable and maclearly shows the agenda of a few people here. KAT is a better offensive player obviously and still has not done squat while being two more years in the league and playing with multiple Nr 1 picks and a player like Butler. His shooting is not that valuable on this team, Ayton's D is certainly huge.

It's funny, being that Puff was going by stuff like PPG, etc, and also saying CP3 was the reason, Ayton put up more PPG before CP3 when Rubio was here and he was a focal point of scoring. His efficiency has improved now though.

I'd be happy to have KAT.

But Ayton is probably more important to our team than many think.

People assume all those back him want to give him the max. I don't think he is quite worth it. Though Book wasn't either. They will need to come up with a good deal for him or match one then. I think they should try to avoid matching one so he doesn't have some sort of out in 3 years though. You may have to give him a good deal just to lock him up for 5 years.

If other teams think he's worth the max, then he will have trade value anyway, and it will be far higher if he's locked up for 5 years than if he has an out after 3.

With a rising cap, more money wouldn't be a big deal. I think if he won't take like 5/$135 they should just offer him what Booker got. I think if they phrase it right "We will give you exactly what we gave Book" it should make him feel valued, even in relative terms it's not nearly as much money when you consider increase in cap or ''nba inflation" and is a lot less relatively speaking than Booker got when he got it.

[Ghost of Kleine]

This is what my optimal projection is/ has been for Ayton in terms of offense and ISO creation. Also to a fair amount defensively as well. I still can't understand why the suns don't invest in Olajuwans' " Dream camp" for Ayron to further advance his game?

It could only be to our team's benefit after all.
Duane Rankin (@DuaneRankin) Tweeted:
Dream shake from Deandre Ayton in the city and on the campus Hakeem Olajuwon got it done. #Suns https://t.co/G6PQJzp8mq

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[sunsbg]

Funny, I got a random YT video suggestion related to KAT shortly after posting my comment above.

Watch on YouTube

;ab_channel=BallerGM

Just a few comments from the comments' section :

-Seriously kat has no advance skill set like anticipation or being "1 step ahead". I don't know why people can't see it. He's just a good shooter, nothing else
-Ik he is the defenition of all offense no defense but to say he is Just a good shooter is crazy and that he has no skill set bc at the and of the day he is guaranteeing u 20+ every game but ngl this is kinda unacceptable and kinda the reason Jimmy Butler wanted out
-at what point do we acknowledge that KAT is an overrated fraud and his numbers are hollow?
-How can someone tall like KAT be that pathetic at defense?
-KAT is the worst defending big I have ever seen

[Ghost of Kleine]

Not particularly fond of any of the trades in here. But if I had to choose, it might be the Pacers trade ( 3rd trade) wherein we give up Payton and Nader and get Craig back. Otherwise, Getting Brunson back would be the best value perhaps, But only if he'd resign with us on a reasonable deal. Still would really like to have him reunited with Bridges.

Valley of the Suns (@ValleyoftheSuns) Tweeted:
There's no reason for the @Suns to trade for Kyrie Irving, but if they try to help other teams push a deal through as a third party, they could upgrade their roster. https://t.co/7hwveG0ZPB

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Any thoughts on 3 team trade possibilities to help a team getting Irving, Wherein we get back and upgraded piece or two??