College basketball and 2017 draft - One more poll after last game

[darealjuice]

Not a good look for Jackson, for sure. Do we know of any other incidents like this that could show a pattern?

Nothing that I've ever seen. I don't think Bill Self would like him so much if he did, he can be a hard ass.

[ATTL]

Not a good look for Jackson, for sure. Do we know of any other incidents like this that could show a pattern?

Nothing that I've ever seen. I don't think Bill Self would like him so much if he did, he can be a hard ass.

I'll trust our front office's judgment on JJ. If Jackson is really an ****, giving millions of dollars will make him worse. I hope he doesn't do **** like this anymore even if we don't draft him.

For tomorrow's games:
FSU and Isaac play at 10am
NC state and smith play at 10 on ESPN
Kentucky plays Florida at noon on CBS
Duke at Miami at 2 on CBS
Kansas @ texus at 4 on ESPN
UCLA @ Arizona at 6:15 on ESPN

Who else will be watching 10 hours of basketball tomorrow?

[darealjuice]

Not a good look for Jackson, for sure. Do we know of any other incidents like this that could show a pattern?

Nothing that I've ever seen. I don't think Bill Self would like him so much if he did, he can be a hard ass.

I'll trust our front office's judgment on JJ. If Jackson is really an ****, giving millions of dollars will make him worse. I hope he doesn't do **** like this anymore even if we don't draft him.

For tomorrow's games:
FSU and Isaac play at 10am
NC state and smith play at 10 on ESPN
Kentucky plays Florida at noon on CBS
Duke at Miami at 2 on CBS
Kansas @ texus at 4 on ESPN
UCLA @ Arizona at 6:15 on ESPN

Who else will be watching 10 hours of basketball tomorrow?

Definitely. Not a good look for him even if it's a minor offense, and he should know better than this. I just hope it was a freak occurrence and not something indicative of him as a person. It'll be a popular question once draft interviews get started lol.

I know I'll be watching a lot of basketball. Virginia's defense will be a good test for Dennis Smith Jr. Kentucky and Florida is to break the tie for top of the SEC, so it should be a good one too. I'm excited to see the UCLA @ Ehrizona rematch, hopefully Ball has a better game than against ASU. I wonder if Josh Jackson even plays tomorrow after this incident. I wouldn't be surprised at all to see him suspended for at least a game.

[Mulhollanddrive]

Sentence should be 100 free throws until he makes 60%.

[kennydorglas]

I think it's a minor thing with JJ but it'll be interesting to see the feedback from the other students.
We knew a lot of crap about the FOE brothers back then... let's hope it was just one bad judgement.

[sunsbum]

I'm less and less worried about us falling in the draft. I'd love to have 1 of the two top PGs or Jackson but I really like Tatum as well. He reminds me of Grant Hill/Gordon Hayward.

[Damkac]

Would Tatum fit with the Suns? Another iso scorer is not what this team needs the most. Suns already have very similar player in Warren.

[ATTL]

Would Tatum fit with the Suns? Another iso scorer is not what this team needs the most. Suns already have very similar player in Warren.

He's a better shooter than TJ, already and can be a spot up shooter for us. What do you think the suns need most?


Fox is out for Kentucky today, monk was awful in the first half but has 24 in the 2nd so far.

[darealjuice]

Would Tatum fit with the Suns? Another iso scorer is not what this team needs the most. Suns already have very similar player in Warren.

I think Tatum would be a pretty good fit for us, although I prefer Jackson's fit if we go the SF route. He's a good passer, although not quite as good as Jackson, and he projects to be able to stretch the floor out better than Warren does while still having a nice mid-range game. His catch-and-shoot ability would really benefit us at SF to open the court up because right now teams can sag further into help when TJ is out there due to him not being the most willing 3-point shooter. I've also been impressed with his defense this year, he's done a lot better than I expected him to going into the year.

[Damkac]

What do you think the suns need most?

Defense, passing (basketball IQ in general) and capable shooters.

[Zelaznyrules]

Would Tatum fit with the Suns? Another iso scorer is not what this team needs the most. Suns already have very similar player in Warren.

I think Tatum would be a pretty good fit for us, although I prefer Jackson's fit if we go the SF route. He's a good passer, although not quite as good as Jackson, and he projects to be able to stretch the floor out better than Warren does while still having a nice mid-range game. His catch-and-shoot ability would really benefit us at SF to open the court up because right now teams can sag further into help when TJ is out there due to him not being the most willing 3-point shooter. I've also been impressed with his defense this year, he's done a lot better than I expected him to going into the year.

I'd prefer Jackson too. I have a rule that would serve any team well if they followed it - never draft a player from Mike K's team. You'll miss out on the rare occasion but in the long run, you'll save yourself a lot of agony. But I have another rule about the college game, never waste a moment watching Duke basketball. Unless you're a Blue Devil fan, you're going to get tired swearing at the referees. Which means, I don't know what I'm talking about when it comes to Tatum. Maybe he is the rare exception but when I hear ISO and complaints about him being selfish, I can't help but wonder.

[ATTL]

I don't think Tatum is selfish, he gets frozen out by the older kids a lot while they play hero ball. This duke game is awful so far. 20 points in 23 minutes.

[darealjuice]

Tatum is having a really bad shooting game. Taking some ill advised shots too.

This Duke team is a bunch of hero ball players and they're all cold right now

[ATTL]

Kansas and Texas
Josh Jackson, Jarret Allen, bill Walton
This is gonna be a fun game

[kennydorglas]

Read on Twitter

This guys is completely nuts, man

[oddity]

He sprained his ankle early on. Went to the locker room then can back out.

I know. I saw it. The other thing to consider is the offense he plays in. Its a motion offense with exceptional ball movement. I saw a stat where they have the highest team fg% in the NCAA since 91-92 Duke. He has an amazing court sense. Consistently made the right pass. Super smart player.

BUT I have played a lot of ball and I have watched more. He was defended by athletes tonight that could not get on the court in a D-League game. He struggled the two times I saw him try to drive in a half court set. It reflected the criticism on his DX video. Maybe it was the injury, maybe not. Just reporting live from Mill Ave. Lol

That's part of what is scaring me a bit with Lonzo as high as he's being talked about in the draft. He has a lot of good shooters around him that definitely help his assist numbers out by hitting shots within the offense, we've rarely seen him run a pick and roll in college despite it being the one of the most important parts of modern NBA basketball, and he hasn't shown the same ability to create his own offense that the other point guards at the top of the draft have (% assisted at rim / % of 3s assisted; Ball: 54.7%/75%, Smith Jr: 20.4%/49%, Fultz: 17.4%/55.8%, Fox: 21%/77.8%). I mean he's only made 8 mid-range shots all year on 42% while Fultz has made 88 on 43.8%.

His basketball IQ is probably the highest in the draft, he's shot really efficiently in college, he facilitates the UCLA offense extremely well, and he's a very, very good passer, but something about the low frequency of breaking his man down off the dribble and creating offense for himself as a point guard worries me when he gets to the NBA level.

Great post, and it backs up what I've been thinking about Ball for the last few months. Lonzo is an exceptional passer and rebounder, but he is seriously missing a mid range game. In today's world of advanced analytics it seems like the mid range is seen as some taboo area that low IQ players take shots from, but every single major scorer in the NBA must have at least a basic pull-up jumper. Lonzo lacks even that, with a trifecta of slow movement speed for a 1, lack of footwork/quickness to stop and pop, and funky shooting fundaments. He will rarely take mid-range jumpers, and when he does it looks like this:

Watch on YouTube

This creates a huge hole for Lonzo; a massive area of the court that he simply cannot score from. The bright side for Lonzo is that he's shown flashes of a decent floater, which can be a huge asset for scoring in close-mid range, especially with his height and length working for him. Still, we see the night and day difference between the mid-range shooting of Lonzo and a guy like Fultz, and it draws a very clear line between a pass-first pg and a true scorer. I like Lonzo a lot, but this (especiallyespeciallyespecially combined with his lateral quickness on D) shows just how much of a boom-or-bust he can be, despite the universal acclaim heard elsewhere.

[Zelaznyrules]

I don't think Tatum is selfish, he gets frozen out by the older kids a lot while they play hero ball. This duke game is awful so far. 20 points in 23 minutes.

Like I said, I avoid Duke games so I've only watched him play twice. I have no idea if he's really selfish, I know that's often been a knock against him though.

[kennydorglas]

I know. I saw it. The other thing to consider is the offense he plays in. Its a motion offense with exceptional ball movement. I saw a stat where they have the highest team fg% in the NCAA since 91-92 Duke. He has an amazing court sense. Consistently made the right pass. Super smart player.

BUT I have played a lot of ball and I have watched more. He was defended by athletes tonight that could not get on the court in a D-League game. He struggled the two times I saw him try to drive in a half court set. It reflected the criticism on his DX video. Maybe it was the injury, maybe not. Just reporting live from Mill Ave. Lol

That's part of what is scaring me a bit with Lonzo as high as he's being talked about in the draft. He has a lot of good shooters around him that definitely help his assist numbers out by hitting shots within the offense, we've rarely seen him run a pick and roll in college despite it being the one of the most important parts of modern NBA basketball, and he hasn't shown the same ability to create his own offense that the other point guards at the top of the draft have (% assisted at rim / % of 3s assisted; Ball: 54.7%/75%, Smith Jr: 20.4%/49%, Fultz: 17.4%/55.8%, Fox: 21%/77.8%). I mean he's only made 8 mid-range shots all year on 42% while Fultz has made 88 on 43.8%.

His basketball IQ is probably the highest in the draft, he's shot really efficiently in college, he facilitates the UCLA offense extremely well, and he's a very, very good passer, but something about the low frequency of breaking his man down off the dribble and creating offense for himself as a point guard worries me when he gets to the NBA level.

Great post, and it backs up what I've been thinking about Ball for the last few months. Lonzo is an exceptional passer and rebounder, but he is seriously missing a mid range game. In today's world of advanced analytics it seems like the mid range is seen as some taboo area that low IQ players take shots from, but every single major scorer in the NBA must have at least a basic pull-up jumper. Lonzo lacks even that, with a trifecta of slow movement speed for a 1, lack of footwork/quickness to stop and pop, and funky shooting fundaments. He will rarely take mid-range jumpers, and when he does it looks like this:

Watch on YouTube

This creates a huge hole for Lonzo; a massive area of the court that he simply cannot score from. The bright side for Lonzo is that he's shown flashes of a decent floater, which can be a huge asset for scoring in close-mid range, especially with his height and length working for him. Still, we see the night and day difference between the mid-range shooting of Lonzo and a guy like Fultz, and it draws a very clear line between a pass-first pg and a true scorer. I like Lonzo a lot, but this (especiallyespeciallyespecially combined with his lateral quickness on D) shows just how much of a boom-or-bust he can be, despite the universal acclaim heard elsewhere.

Yep, Lonzo has a very easy scouting report... play tight and force him to dribble.

[Zelaznyrules]

Read on Twitter

This guys is completely nuts, man

Yeah, this really worries me and it's why I've moved away from hoping we get him. After the recent CBA, there was a lot of speculation that the agents and players would have to take control of the situation prior to their first contract instead of waiting it out for 8 or 9 years. I wouldn't be surprised if Papa Ball hasn't already had that conversation and drawn up a plan to make it work. He's made that LA comment several times over the past 10 days.

[ATTL]

Jarrett Allen could be a high pick next year if he improves his body a bit