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Season Speculation, Trade Ideas & Discussion 3: About Last Knight

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Re: RE: Re: Season Speculation, Trade Ideas & Discussion 3: About Last Knight 

Post#881 » by carey » Tue Feb 21, 2017 1:32 am

SideSwipe wrote:Anything from Gambo today?

Gambo: Suns made best move of all by not trading for Cousins. - http://arizonasports.com/story/1030321/gambo-suns-made-the-best-move-of-all-by-not-trading-for-cousins/

Sometimes the best trades are the ones you don’t make. And in the case of DeMarcus Cousins, the Phoenix Suns in the long run will be very happy that they didn’t trade for a complete fraud.

Cousins is über talented — no one can question that. He is one of only three players averaging 25-plus points and 10-plus rebounds per game. But he doesn’t win. And more importantly, he is a franchise ruiner.

I am extremely happy that we all woke up this morning and Cousins is not a member of the Suns. And yes the Suns were somewhat interested in Cousins, did inquire about him and had internal discussions about him in a trade surrounding T.J. Warren, Alex Len and a draft pick. But Suns General Manager Ryan McDonough is no fool. He wasn’t going to overpay for a player who is a high-risk and one they would have had to pay close to $200 million for.

“We would have traded for him at the right price,” said McDonough. “We didn’t want to break up our young core to get him.”

The Suns young core is something to build around. They have young talent, plenty of cap space and a ton of draft picks including two first-rounders from Miami coming up. The Suns don’t need to be desperate, they need to be patient. The pieces for Phoenix are falling in place and a top-5 pick is on its way in June.

A team who needed to be desperate is in fact the team who is bringing Cousins on board.

New Orleans is 23-34 and 2 1/2 games out of the 8th spot in the Western Conference. Jobs, a lot of jobs are on the line in the organization including head coach Alvin Gentry. They had to do something. They had to make franchise player Anthony Davis happy. So they pulled the trigger on a trade for the 26-year-old center who was taken fifth overall by Sacramento in the 2010 draft.

But the lack of talent they gave up tells you everything you need to know about Cousins. The Pelicans parted with rookie first-round pick Buddy Hield, a decent player but nothing special, veteran swingman Tyreke Evans whose best days are behind him, guard Langston Galloway who likely won’t stick around, and their first and second round picks in this June’s draft for the three-time All-Star. The first-round pick is top-3 protected and right now that pick is slated to be 9th overall.

The happiest team in the NBA right now is the Sacramento Kings. What they just did was get out of having to pay $217 million to a player that has always done what was best for him, not what was best for his team.

Sacramento’s brass has lied from the second my report came out two weeks ago that the Kings were talking to the Suns about trading Cousins. They said they had no intention of trading him and that he was going nowhere. That he would sign an extension with the Kings.

Cousins for his part said he wanted to stay — mainly because by being traded he loses about $30 million as the designation rule allowed his original team to pay him 35 percent of the salary cap, but his new team can only pay him 30 percent of the cap. That’s a big chunk of change Cousins loses by being dealt.

But taking a deeper look there is a reason in his seven seasons in the NBA, the most wins Cousins has ever guided his team to is 33. In fact from his rookie season until this year the win totals for the Kings with Cousins go like this — 24, 22, 28, 28, 29, 33 and this year they are 24-33. Forget about making the playoffs, Sacramento has never even sniffed the playoffs since Cousins joined the team, finishing 14th, 14th, 13th, 13th, 13th and 10th in the Western Conference.

One prominent NBA high ranking executive told me there are 25 teams in the league who wouldn’t take Cousins for free. And he was serious.

Cousins is just not what he appears to be. Forget the numbers because they don’t explain anything when it comes to Cousins. He is a terrible teammate who takes the joy out of playing the game. He doesn’t get back on defense, dribbles the ball way too often instead of letting the point guard run the offense, jacks up three-pointers from wherever and whenever in total disregard for the offense being run. In fact it’s easy to define his style of play — it’s a losing style consisting of bad habit after bad habit. He is an emotional wreck and unstable. He is completely uncoachable.

The future for Phoenix is bright, but it wouldn’t have been had they been the team trading for Cousins instead of New Orleans.
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Re: Season Speculation, Trade Ideas & Discussion 3: About Last Knight 

Post#882 » by LukasBMW » Tue Feb 21, 2017 1:38 am

Let's say NOP misses the playoffs and somehow lands a top 3 pick. For argument sake, let's say they move up to #2 and we get bumped to #5.

NOP calls and offers us pick #2 straight up for Bledsoe. We then get #2 and #5 in this draft.

Take it? Rebuild?

Or keep Bledsoe, draft BPA @ #5 and hope that the Pelicans have another bad year and Bledsoe will attract Boogie?

I say cash in. Take the pick.
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Re: Season Speculation, Trade Ideas & Discussion 3: About Last Knight 

Post#883 » by bigfoot » Tue Feb 21, 2017 1:48 am

We can thank the Morii twins for educating Sarver and McD on bringing in malcontents to the team.

Moving either of Chriss or Bender for Cousins would have been crazy. We only need one of them to turn into a quality stretch 4/5 which is the direction the league is headed.

Still very happy that Cousins is not on the Suns. We need to stay the course and let this team continue to develop. The only player we should move is Knight.
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Re: Season Speculation, Trade Ideas & Discussion 3: About Last Knight 

Post#884 » by Mulhollanddrive » Tue Feb 21, 2017 1:50 am

Does this mean the Phoenix Suns have finally chosen a direction?

If we're not going to pay fair value for top 20 players, it means compiling 5-6 years (another 1-2) worth of the best picks you can get.
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Re: Season Speculation, Trade Ideas & Discussion 3: About Last Knight 

Post#885 » by lilfishi22 » Tue Feb 21, 2017 1:51 am

LukasBMW wrote:Let's say NOP misses the playoffs and somehow lands a top 3 pick. For argument sake, let's say they move up to #2 and we get bumped to #5.

NOP calls and offers us pick #2 straight up for Bledsoe. We then get #2 and #5 in this draft.

Take it? Rebuild?

Or keep Bledsoe, draft BPA @ #5 and hope that the Pelicans have another bad year and Bledsoe will attract Boogie?

I say cash in. Take the pick.

100% cash in. I'd even move him for the #5 pick if the situation was reversed.
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Re: Season Speculation, Trade Ideas & Discussion 3: About Last Knight 

Post#886 » by lilfishi22 » Tue Feb 21, 2017 2:00 am

tgtm_24 wrote:
lilfishi22 wrote:
tgtm_24 wrote:Why would you want to trade Bledsoe?

Having a career year, finally healthy and still has room for improvement?

People complaining we can't lure FA's yet want to move our best player currently just for the sake of it.

Weird.

He's eligible for an extension/renegotiation of his contract this summer. Considering his knee issues, do you think he's worth the max extension, he probably deserves?


Well given his knees have held up this year just fine, it's a tick.

I understand the sell high mentality, but guys are going to get crazy dollars with the new CBA. So far Bledsoe is on a great deal, MCD, did well having the foresight of the rising cap.

I think Bledsoe is having such an underrated season that we wouldn't get fair value back in a trade currently. I want to keep some above average talent on the roster to keep Booker happy as well.

I can't see the benefit of moving Bledsoe right here, right now.

In b4 he goes down with a knee next game.

Tick for this year. Ticking time bomb for every year he's on the roster. He absolutely could finish his contract with no other injuries but you would be gambling here. Bledsoe is effectively on this great deal until the end of this season when he's eligible for an extension, then we're looking at the crazy dollar contracts.

I'm all for cashing in on Bledsoe when his value is high and especially when this season's draft is especially strong.
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Re: Season Speculation, Trade Ideas & Discussion 3: About Last Knight 

Post#887 » by Kerrsed » Tue Feb 21, 2017 2:05 am

Look, it is what it is.

For the longest time Cousins wanted out of Sactown. The only time he became "Loyal" was when he found out the leagues new rule regarding franchise players and realizing that if he stayed and re-signed he would be eligible to receive damn near $50M for doing absolutely nothing extra. Im also guessing after he would have signed that deal, he would have forced his way out of there asap.

Now with New Orleans......the video posted earlier says it all. His agent whispered in his ear that he was traded, there was a "WTF" look on his face, then he continued answering questions. Reporters started making the focus of the questions about New Orleans and Davis, and knowing its his new team, he talked them up. Still, his initial reaction was that he was irritated.

Him and his agent wanted him to stay in Sacramento long enough to sign that new contract, and they pretty much let everyone know this. They already said that they were going (More than willing) to re-sign with the Kings and Cousins wasnt willing to re-sign with any team that traded for him, so they drew a line in the sand.

I think that why the offers for him were considered so low, that threat of him not re-signing scared a lot of teams, and i think our reported offer reflects that.

Now the Pelicans have him for around a season and a half guaranteed, and are banking on the pairing of Davis and Cousins (Along with Holliday and the soon to be added LANCE STEPHENSON!) being a force and making the playoffs and possibly out of the 1st round. They believe the lure of being on a contender and playing next to another top 10 player will keep Cousins satisfied enough to re-sign when the time comes. As of right now, it doesnt look good, as the agent was clear and the Pelicans took the threat lightly. Questions about how he will fit Its still fresh in their minds and will be for at least the next month.

But i do have to say, as i see it, he would be foolish to leave a team with Davis/Holliday/Stephenson. I for one think the Davis/Cousins pairing will work great, and if he cant win or doesnt want to stay there, i dont see how or if he would here with more inferior players.

So i am all done with the Cousins hunt. Time to move on and find new avenues for team improvement. As of right now i believe that lies in Tucker. Celtics have assets, and they want Tucker, so lets strike while the iron is hot.
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Re: Season Speculation, Trade Ideas & Discussion 3: About Last Knight 

Post#888 » by Christine-In-AZ » Tue Feb 21, 2017 2:12 am

lilfishi22 wrote: ...Bledsoe is effectively on this great deal until the end of this season when he's eligible for an extension, then we're looking at the crazy dollar contracts.


Bledsoe is eligible for an extension this summer? Thought it was the summer of '18.
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Re: Season Speculation, Trade Ideas & Discussion 3: About Last Knight 

Post#889 » by GotEm » Tue Feb 21, 2017 2:18 am

I have a question for y'all. Knight's value keeps on decreasing and decreasing. It's now gotten to a point where teams will flat out not trade with the Suns if Knight is in the trade.

Should the Suns be looking to dump Knight and attach the top 8 protected Heat pick with him? Or if possible, add Suns protection to that same pick?

Or are the Suns better off just having Knight on the roster and suffering through it for the next 4 years and then trading him when he becomes an expiring contract? Would his stay on the team long term negatively influence the young kids on the team because of the way he plays?

I think the point of "keep Knight, his play will get better and then some team will find value in him" is all but gone. Knight is among the worst in the league in just about every single advanced statistical category.
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Re: Season Speculation, Trade Ideas & Discussion 3: About Last Knight 

Post#890 » by phnart » Tue Feb 21, 2017 2:24 am

If McDonough packages Knight with a first round pick just to get rid of him, he's an idiot.
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Re: Season Speculation, Trade Ideas & Discussion 3: About Last Knight 

Post#891 » by kennydorglas » Tue Feb 21, 2017 2:24 am

Favors is available per Zach Lowe.
I'm still very interested on him.
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Re: Season Speculation, Trade Ideas & Discussion 3: About Last Knight 

Post#892 » by Kerrsed » Tue Feb 21, 2017 2:25 am

GotEm wrote:I have a question for y'all. Knight's value keeps on decreasing and decreasing. It's now gotten to a point where teams will flat out not trade with the Suns if Knight is in the trade.

Should the Suns be looking to dump Knight and attach the top 8 protected Heat pick with him? Or if possible, add Suns protection to that same pick?

Or are the Suns better off just having Knight on the roster and suffering through it for the next 4 years and then trading him when he becomes an expiring contract? Would his stay on the team long term negatively influence the young kids on the team because of the way he plays?

I think the point of "keep Knight, his play will get better and then some team will find value in him" is all but gone. Knight is among the worst in the league in just about every single advanced statistical category.


Well for one, there is no way we attach any assets (let alone our draft pick) to Knight in order to just dump him. We are fine with him and currently sit below the salary floor (meaning we need to take on more money). If we dont find some kind of taker, then that is fine as well, as he will continue to be our tank commander, and an extra insurgence policy for Bledsoes knees.
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Re: Season Speculation, Trade Ideas & Discussion 3: About Last Knight 

Post#893 » by GotEm » Tue Feb 21, 2017 2:29 am

Kerrsed wrote:
GotEm wrote:I have a question for y'all. Knight's value keeps on decreasing and decreasing. It's now gotten to a point where teams will flat out not trade with the Suns if Knight is in the trade.

Should the Suns be looking to dump Knight and attach the top 8 protected Heat pick with him? Or if possible, add Suns protection to that same pick?

Or are the Suns better off just having Knight on the roster and suffering through it for the next 4 years and then trading him when he becomes an expiring contract? Would his stay on the team long term negatively influence the young kids on the team because of the way he plays?

I think the point of "keep Knight, his play will get better and then some team will find value in him" is all but gone. Knight is among the worst in the league in just about every single advanced statistical category.


Well for one, there is no way we attach any assets (let alone our draft pick) to Knight in order to just dump him. We are fine with him and currently sit below the salary floor (meaning we need to take on more money). If we dont find some kind of taker, then that is fine as well, as he will continue to be our tank commander, and an extra insurgence policy for Bledsoes knees.

That's just the thing though, he isn't. Tyler Ulis at age 20 is already better than Knight at age 24.

And agreed that he's a fantastic tank commander, I'd argue that he's the best in the NBA at it. However, how much longer do the Suns want to continue to do that? When do they want to start competing with their roster? As Hinkie found out, McD won't have a job much longer if the team's plan is to keep tanking for several more years.
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Re: Season Speculation, Trade Ideas & Discussion 3: About Last Knight 

Post#894 » by GotEm » Tue Feb 21, 2017 2:31 am

kennydorglas wrote:Favors is available per Zach Lowe.
I'm still very interested on him.

He's very injury prone. And he would only be useful against teams like Memphis and New Orleans because he's super slow and actually plays more like a Center despite only having the size for a PF.

He's pretty limited offensively too.

I wouldn't want him here taking away minutes from Chriss.
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Re: Season Speculation, Trade Ideas & Discussion 3: About Last Knight 

Post#895 » by RaisingArizona » Tue Feb 21, 2017 2:36 am

What's the rush in trading Knight when his value is low?
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Re: Season Speculation, Trade Ideas & Discussion 3: About Last Knight 

Post#896 » by AtheJ415 » Tue Feb 21, 2017 2:39 am

GotEm wrote:I have a question for y'all. Knight's value keeps on decreasing and decreasing. It's now gotten to a point where teams will flat out not trade with the Suns if Knight is in the trade.

Should the Suns be looking to dump Knight and attach the top 8 protected Heat pick with him? Or if possible, add Suns protection to that same pick?

Or are the Suns better off just having Knight on the roster and suffering through it for the next 4 years and then trading him when he becomes an expiring contract? Would his stay on the team long term negatively influence the young kids on the team because of the way he plays?

I think the point of "keep Knight, his play will get better and then some team will find value in him" is all but gone. Knight is among the worst in the league in just about every single advanced statistical category.


Disagree with both of these. You want to believe the Suns deal didn't happen just because Bucher says Knight was involved. Why would we refuse to do the deal if he wasn't? It doesn't make logical sense. What makes logical sense is that the owner believes Buddy Hield is a future Steph Curry and demanded he make that trade.

And hell no, the Suns should not, with near league-leading cap space, be looking to dump Knight's contract while trading 1st rounders. That is what the Kings did, which is why their future is beyond bleak.
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Re: Season Speculation, Trade Ideas & Discussion 3: About Last Knight 

Post#897 » by kennydorglas » Tue Feb 21, 2017 2:39 am

GotEm wrote:
kennydorglas wrote:Favors is available per Zach Lowe.
I'm still very interested on him.

He's very injury prone. And he would only be useful against teams like Memphis and New Orleans because he's super slow and actually plays more like a Center despite only having the size for a PF.

He's pretty limited offensively too.

I wouldn't want him here taking away minutes from Chriss.


He's a clear 5 in my mind, tho. Too bad he plays with the best rim protector in the league.
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Re: Season Speculation, Trade Ideas & Discussion 3: About Last Knight 

Post#898 » by AtheJ415 » Tue Feb 21, 2017 2:40 am

GotEm wrote:
Kerrsed wrote:
GotEm wrote:I have a question for y'all. Knight's value keeps on decreasing and decreasing. It's now gotten to a point where teams will flat out not trade with the Suns if Knight is in the trade.

Should the Suns be looking to dump Knight and attach the top 8 protected Heat pick with him? Or if possible, add Suns protection to that same pick?

Or are the Suns better off just having Knight on the roster and suffering through it for the next 4 years and then trading him when he becomes an expiring contract? Would his stay on the team long term negatively influence the young kids on the team because of the way he plays?

I think the point of "keep Knight, his play will get better and then some team will find value in him" is all but gone. Knight is among the worst in the league in just about every single advanced statistical category.


Well for one, there is no way we attach any assets (let alone our draft pick) to Knight in order to just dump him. We are fine with him and currently sit below the salary floor (meaning we need to take on more money). If we dont find some kind of taker, then that is fine as well, as he will continue to be our tank commander, and an extra insurgence policy for Bledsoes knees.

That's just the thing though, he isn't. Tyler Ulis at age 20 is already better than Knight at age 24.

And agreed that he's a fantastic tank commander, I'd argue that he's the best in the NBA at it. However, how much longer do the Suns want to continue to do that? When do they want to start competing with their roster? As Hinkie found out, McD won't have a job much longer if the team's plan is to keep tanking for several more years.


If he continues to draft well he will. Hinkie got fired for drafting a bunch of guys who cannot play with each other.
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Re: RE: Re: Season Speculation, Trade Ideas & Discussion 3: About Last Knight 

Post#899 » by WeekapaugGroove » Tue Feb 21, 2017 2:41 am

ChrisInAZ wrote:
lilfishi22 wrote: ...Bledsoe is effectively on this great deal until the end of this season when he's eligible for an extension, then we're looking at the crazy dollar contracts.


Bledsoe is eligible for an extension this summer? Thought it was the summer of '18.

Yeah bledsoe has two years left after this season so yeah the soonest they could talk extension would be 2018.

If they do look to trade him the next 6 months is when his value will be highest because of the extra years of control.

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Re: Season Speculation, Trade Ideas & Discussion 3: About Last Knight 

Post#900 » by King4Day » Tue Feb 21, 2017 2:45 am

No way to the idea off attaching a pick to dump Knight. I'd only consider that if we needed to make room to get someone like George. Right now, we are not competing and below the cap. From what I understand, Knight has leadership qualities, so while he may not perform on the court, he's not worth giving up assets to get rid of.
Plus, McD already made the mistake of giving up a quality pick for him. He's not giving up a potential additional pick to get rid of him
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