Deandre Ayton news and highlights

[Revived]

It was reported that the media was in locker room when the Booker/Ayton exchange took place and yet nobody knows what was specifically said?

On top of the Suns being bad this season, the media coverage of the team has been absolutely awful too in my opinion. I miss Paul Coro, even when the team was bad we still got good material from him.

Instead, we now have a bunch of BSOTS fanboys in there posing as “reporters”.

[Revived]

Interesting to go back and read through the draft threads...

Drafting a big man ahead of Doncic and Young in an era where big men are largely irrelevant could be disastrous.

Ayton can be sooooo awful defensively. I really want to like him but bigmen with questionable defense and motor issues don't fit in today's NBA, even if they're awesome on offense.

At this point are there any teams that would not take Ayton with the #1 pick?

Hopefully the Suns.

Made my god damn day reading this

[bwgood77]

It was reported that the media was in locker room when the Booker/Ayton exchange took place and yet nobody knows what was specifically said?

On top of the Suns being bad this season, the media coverage of the team has been absolutely awful too in my opinion. I miss Paul Coro, even when the team was bad we still got good material from him.

Instead, we now have a bunch of BSOTS fanboys in there posing as “reporters”.

Gina is better than anyone we've had in a long time imo. The Athletic is worth subscribing to if you can get as low as $2.99 a month, just for her...but also you can read the Chargers stuff and any other teams.

I actually could have sworn I saw an offer for $2.49 a month once so I kept looking and kept running across the $2.99 a month ones and FINALLY I found the $2.49 offer, so it's like the price of a cup of coffee or less for one month of her articles. Bob Young is there too, but he isn't very good in my opinion.

Anyway, I think when the media came in the Ayton/Booker thing was just ending...they may have purposely ended it because the media was coming. I think they would have reported about it if they knew the content.

[Saberestar]

Interesting to go back and read through the draft threads...

Drafting a big man ahead of Doncic and Young in an era where big men are largely irrelevant could be disastrous.

Ayton can be sooooo awful defensively. I really want to like him but bigmen with questionable defense and motor issues don't fit in today's NBA, even if they're awesome on offense.

Hopefully the Suns.

Made my god damn day reading this

Gaspar is a poster that has a terrific knowledge about basketball and he is passionate about it. Probably even too much , but his understanding of the game is for real IMO. It is not strange to see those comments out of him because he (like myself and a ton of others) knew before and after the draft that this league is perimeter's oriented and a PG/SG/SF can make a bigger impact nowadays in the NBA.

We picked Ayton in the draft, and when he IS our player all the fans try to find the great things about him. And it is true that Ayton has big qualities that makes it easy to get excited about his potential and future impact in the league. That is why probably he changed his mind a bit regarding Ayton IMO, he saw that he can be a dominant player as a modern C who can shoot, pass and finish around the rim.

Both concepts can work and hopefully Ayton is seen as the best player out of this draft in a few years.

I wanted badly Trae Young on this team because he reminds me of Steve Nash and I think he is gonna be great, but after him I had Bagley, Doncic and Ayton so close in my list that I even didn't care about who of them was selected as a #1. But I am rooting for Ayton now.

[bwgood77]

Interesting to go back and read through the draft threads...

Made my god damn day reading this

Gaspar is a poster that has a terrific knowledge about basketball and he is passionate about it. Probably even too much , but his understanding of the game is for real IMO. It is not strange to see those comments out of him because he (like myself and a ton of others) knew before and after the draft that this league is perimeter's oriented and a PG/SG/SF can make a bigger impact nowadays in the NBA.

We picked Ayton in the draft, and when he IS our player all the fans try to find the great things about him. And it is true that Ayton has big qualities that makes it easy to get excited about his potential and future impact in the league. That is why probably he changed his mind a bit regarding Ayton IMO, he saw that he can be a dominant player as a modern C who can shoot, pass and finish around the rim.

Both concepts can work and hopefully Ayton is seen as the best player out of this draft in a few years.

I wanted badly Trae Young on this team because he reminds me of Steve Nash and I think he is gonna be great, but after him I had Bagley, Doncic and Ayton so close in my list that I even didn't care about who of them was selected as a #1. But I am rooting for Ayton now.

I agree, that gaspar has a ton of knowledge and is smart, and I think he had good takes here, and wanted to back Ayton when we drafted him as any good fan would do. It will be interesting to see what take ultimately ends up correct.

I am obviously pulling for Ayton now but am scared, just as I was pre draft about what gaspar said in those first two quotes above. I just hope somehow Ayton WANTS to learn help defense, block shots of players he is not guarding (if close to them) and put his money where his mouth is.

It's hard for anyone to call him out, even Booker considering Booker is among the worst defenders in the NBA as well. I just fear that if Ayton never gets there in those areas on defense we will be stuck with him as a major piece and that other teams will feast at the rim and it will make it near impossible to win much barring a perfect shooting night.

I think a guy like Zion would leave everything on the floor and call him out, but we only have a 14% chance of getting him at best.

If we end up with like the 4th or 5th pick I wouldn't mind taking Bol Bol just to have two Centers, one great on offense, and the other great on defense, and we could play them together in stretches given Bol Bol being able to shoot the 3 (50% on decent volume)...also blocking 3.4 shots per game per 36.

Ayton could play inside on offense while Bol Bol was on the perimeter to spread floor and they could reverse on D, since Ayton can guard the perimeter fairly well. You play them each 28 minutes or so and that keeps them fresh and they really only need to play 8 minutes together if teams go small.

[Saberestar]

Made my god damn day reading this

Gaspar is a poster that has a terrific knowledge about basketball and he is passionate about it. Probably even too much , but his understanding of the game is for real IMO. It is not strange to see those comments out of him because he (like myself and a ton of others) knew before and after the draft that this league is perimeter's oriented and a PG/SG/SF can make a bigger impact nowadays in the NBA.

We picked Ayton in the draft, and when he IS our player all the fans try to find the great things about him. And it is true that Ayton has big qualities that makes it easy to get excited about his potential and future impact in the league. That is why probably he changed his mind a bit regarding Ayton IMO, he saw that he can be a dominant player as a modern C who can shoot, pass and finish around the rim.

Both concepts can work and hopefully Ayton is seen as the best player out of this draft in a few years.

I wanted badly Trae Young on this team because he reminds me of Steve Nash and I think he is gonna be great, but after him I had Bagley, Doncic and Ayton so close in my list that I even didn't care about who of them was selected as a #1. But I am rooting for Ayton now.

I agree, that gaspar has a ton of knowledge and is smart, and I think he had good takes here, and wanted to back Ayton when we drafted him as any good fan would do. It will be interesting to see what take ultimately ends up correct.

I am obviously pulling for Ayton now but am scared, just as I was pre draft about what gaspar said in those first two quotes above. I just hope somehow Ayton WANTS to learn help defense, block shots of players he is not guarding (if close to them) and put his money where his mouth is.

It's hard for anyone to call him out, even Booker considering Booker is among the worst defenders in the NBA as well. I just fear that if Ayton never gets there in those areas on defense we will be stuck with him as a major piece and that other teams will feast at the rim and it will make it near impossible to win much barring a perfect shooting night.

I think a guy like Zion would leave everything on the floor and call him out, but we only have a 14% chance of getting him at best.

If we end up with like the 4th or 5th pick I wouldn't mind taking Bol Bol just to have two Centers, one great on offense, and the other great on defense, and we could play them together in stretches given Bol Bol being able to shoot the 3 (50% on decent volume)...also blocking 3.4 shots per game per 36.

Ayton could play inside on offense while Bol Bol was on the perimeter to spread floor and they could reverse on D, since Ayton can guard the perimeter fairly well. You play them each 28 minutes or so and that keeps them fresh and they really only need to play 8 minutes together if teams go small.

Yeah, I agree completely.

Zion would be perfect for our team IMO. He has everything that we are lacking. He is strong like a tank, superhigh motor...an intimidating player that can play outside or inside on both sides of the court. A frontcourt with Warren/Zion/Ayton with Bridges and Holmes coming from the bench looks pretty good to me.

I am not sold yet about Bol. I think he is gonna have a tough time adjusting to the speed of the league. We will see.

[K4P]

How many players have come into the league with bad effort on defence, shown significant progress? The problem with Ayton is that he looks like he has no fire, no desire and zero basketball smarts.

Even as a Wildcat, the man was a poor defender. And instead of using his size on offence was notorious for settling for soft jump shots. For someone who calls himself the next "Shaq".. How many times have you guys seen Shaq settle for jumpers?

I wish Ayton the best. After all, he is a Sun. I feel his Arizona connection was what made McD go for him - ignoring the red flags and trying to make a decision to please the fans... While the better pick is currently playing at an all-star level in Dallas and in playoff contention.

Karl Towns

[bwgood77]

How many players have come into the league with bad effort on defence, shown significant progress? The problem with Ayton is that he looks like he has no fire, no desire and zero basketball smarts.

Even as a Wildcat, the man was a poor defender. And instead of using his size on offence was notorious for settling for soft jump shots. For someone who calls himself the next "Shaq".. How many times have you guys seen Shaq settle for jumpers?

I wish Ayton the best. After all, he is a Sun. I feel his Arizona connection was what made McD go for him - ignoring the red flags and trying to make a decision to please the fans... While the better pick is currently playing at an all-star level in Dallas and in playoff contention.

Karl Towns

The only bad thing is that they were still very bad his first 2-3 years before they got Butler....though I love getting Covington in the trade...he will really help the defense...I'm sure already has...and Towns can do the scoring and is much more efficient than Butler...so Covington better defender than Butler and Towns more efficient...so that works. Hopefully Bridges can be our Covington.

[GoodBehavior]

Interesting to go back and read through the draft threads...

Ayton's defense isn't as bad as people make it out to be. After Canaan was dropped from the starting lineup, team defense & Ayton improved sharply until Booker's injury forced Igor to put Okobo (like Canaan is a defensively liability) on the starting lineup. If Ayton is playing with decent defensive guard, his defense is middle of the pack and acceptable. People wonder why he looked so great during Summer league but dreadful during the season? Well, its Shaq Harrison guarding the PNR vs Isaac Canaan, its a huge difference.

I was browsing on the main forum and someone posted that the Sixers' defense has dropped to 27th after the trade. The reason from what I gathered is not just the trade but poor guard defense overall during the season. This is a team with three elite defenders (Embiid, Simons, Butler/Covington). The Jazz is another team that defensively underperformed this year despite Gobert and Favors anchoring the middle. Still a good defensive team, but no where what fans expect to be (and a key reason why they're playing 0.500 ball). Again, the issue is poor guard defense.

Gobert, Embiid, Butler/Covington are the elite of the elite when it comes to defense. DPOY caliber players. If their defense is impacted by poor guard play, what chance does Ayton have with piss poor guard defenders? I'll reserve judgement until he's surrounded by plus defender

Whenever I read stuff like this I'm like "Are you actually watching our games or just trying to find angles and stats to make the shoe fit?". He's **** terrible.
He guards the rim like a matador passing the bull, like a gentleman chivalrously saying "after you".
It's like his work is done once he has jumped. Jumping a second time for a rebound? Nope. Trying to block the opponent who grabbed the rebound from him? Nope. "hey I jumped once, I'm done here."
It is infuriating. To me this is the worst part about watching the Suns play. It makes me go crazy during games.

He's been better overall (PNR defense and rim protection) when he's not playing with Canaan/Okobo in the starting lineup. This is apparent when you watch the games, I am not sure how you can arrive at a different conclusion. Since Mikal has been guarding the opposing team point guard, Ayton has looked average compared to the turnstile he was during the early part of the season. PNR defense looks acceptable and blocks/contested shots are up. Team defense rating with Canaan and Okobo in the lineup is stunningly bad.

Ayton has been average defensively (excluding the Kings game) as of late. The only gripe I have with him is he still has unexplained mental lapses that are really unacceptable. He was playing well against the Heat until he bobbled an easy pass and then proceeded to forgot to play defense for a series. He also played well against the Blazers but he inexplicably allowed a wide open back door lob.

[Frank Lee]

Declaring Ayton is a better defender when
Okobo is not playing, is
Not valid proof he is improving. Less exposure to his weakness
Creates the perception he has
Improved.
Can we agree with that ?

[sunsbg]

Declaring Ayton is a better defender when
Okobo is not playing, is
Not valid proof he is improving. Less exposure to his weakness
Creates the perception he has
Improved.
Can we agree with that ?

It goes both ways. Ayton will look worse if the wings don't play any defense, don't you agree ?

[Maze]

How many players have come into the league with bad effort on defence, shown significant progress? The problem with Ayton is that he looks like he has no fire, no desire and zero basketball smarts.

Even as a Wildcat, the man was a poor defender. And instead of using his size on offence was notorious for settling for soft jump shots. For someone who calls himself the next "Shaq".. How many times have you guys seen Shaq settle for jumpers?

I wish Ayton the best. After all, he is a Sun. I feel his Arizona connection was what made McD go for him - ignoring the red flags and trying to make a decision to please the fans... While the better pick is currently playing at an all-star level in Dallas and in playoff contention.

Karl Towns

Towns as a rook was more aggressive than Ayton.Can't play a lick of defense, but he's always been greedy on offense.
He loves to score.Ayton seems timid by nature.Both ends of the floor.His defense is terrible & it distracts just how
passive he can be on offense.Maybe the light bulb will come on someday, but as of right now, he doesn't seem to have
it intrinsically.

[Jstock12]

How many players have come into the league with bad effort on defence, shown significant progress? The problem with Ayton is that he looks like he has no fire, no desire and zero basketball smarts.

Even as a Wildcat, the man was a poor defender. And instead of using his size on offence was notorious for settling for soft jump shots. For someone who calls himself the next "Shaq".. How many times have you guys seen Shaq settle for jumpers?

I wish Ayton the best. After all, he is a Sun. I feel his Arizona connection was what made McD go for him - ignoring the red flags and trying to make a decision to please the fans... While the better pick is currently playing at an all-star level in Dallas and in playoff contention.

Karl Towns

Towns as a rook was more aggressive than Ayton.Can't play a lick of defense, but he's always been greedy on offense.

While it's true that Towns is a disaster on defense, he's always been a respectable rim-protector. This season he's got a great DFG% inside 6 feet (-6.8%). That's comparable rim-protection to guys like Joel Embiid or Jarrett Allen.


Top rim-protectors this season (among all 34 players who played at least 10 games, and defend 5 or more FGA inside 6 feet per game):


1. Hassan Whiteside -12.9%
2. Serge Ibaka -11.5%
3. Wendel Carter Jr. -10.6%
4. JaVale McGee -10.4%
5. Myles Turner -10.0%
6. Alex Len -10.0%
7. Jusuf Nurkic -9.8%
8. Derrick Favors -9.5%
9. Jaren Jackson Jr -9.3%
10. Joel Embiid -8.4%
...
13. Karl-Anthony Towns -6.8%
...
...
...
34. Deandre Ayton +2.1%


Interestingly enough, a guy like Sabonis is also a pretty good rim-protector even though he only averages 0.7 bpg. Despite lacking length and athleticism his DFG% inside 6 feet is -4.8% which ranks 18th out of 34 qualified players. It also proves you don't need to get actual blocks to be an effective rim-protector. Just bother the shooters with your size, which Ayton can definitely do... He needs proper coaching on that end and the willingness to do it. With his size and athleticism, there's no reason why Danilo Gallinari or Enes Kanter should be a better rim-protectors than him.

[handsome salary]

Ayton would be a fine Shakespearean actor. After each loss he gives a wonderful soliloquy about what had befallen with himself and the team. He should do every post game interview holding a skull in his hand.

[bwgood77]

Declaring Ayton is a better defender when
Okobo is not playing, is
Not valid proof he is improving. Less exposure to his weakness
Creates the perception he has
Improved.
Can we agree with that ?

It goes both ways. Ayton will look worse if the wings don't play any defense, don't you agree ?

I think the way he could look worse is because the weaknesses he has would be exploited more. I don't think it means if the wings play better he would be better at the things he is deficient at but we just might not see it as much. But if our wing defenders can not allow the opposition to drive to the rim as much, that would help, because we simply wouldn't see Ayton just stand and watch the layup from a foot or two away as often.

But people will always get to the rim. We really just need a weak side good help rim defender and shot blocker....I've mentioned Kleber but there are others...preferably a guy who has range so on offense he could spread the floor to make things easier for Ayton.

But even if a guy like Bridges can do a lot more helping and switching that would help, in the same way Covington has helped Towns. Towns was already looking better on D this year, but having Covington there really helps.

Chances are, Ayton will improve to some extent if he wants to, but I am not entirely sure how much desire is there. You always hear he really listens and wants to learn, but the lack of energy, intensity and fire is concerning.

But guys like Deandre Jordan and Towns improved a lot at similar weakness, though probably not as bad.

[bwgood77]

Karl Towns

Towns as a rook was more aggressive than Ayton.Can't play a lick of defense, but he's always been greedy on offense.

While it's true that Towns is a disaster on defense, he's always been a respectable rim-protector. This season he's got a great DFG% inside 6 feet (-6.8%). That's comparable rim-protection to guys like Joel Embiid or Jarrett Allen.


Top rim-protectors this season (among all 34 players who played at least 10 games, and defend 5 or more FGA inside 6 feet per game):


1. Hassan Whiteside -12.9%
2. Serge Ibaka -11.5%
3. Wendel Carter Jr. -10.6%
4. JaVale McGee -10.4%
5. Myles Turner -10.0%
6. Alex Len -10.0%
7. Jusuf Nurkic -9.8%
8. Derrick Favors -9.5%
9. Jaren Jackson Jr -9.3%
10. Joel Embiid -8.4%
...
13. Karl-Anthony Towns -6.8%
...
...
...
34. Deandre Ayton +2.1%


Interestingly enough, a guy like Sabonis is also a pretty good rim-protector even though he only averages 0.7 bpg. Despite lacking length and athleticism his DFG% inside 6 feet is -4.8% which ranks 18th out of 34 qualified players. It also proves you don't need to get actual blocks to be an effective rim-protector. Just bother the shooters with your size, which Ayton can definitely do... He needs proper coaching on that end and the willingness to do it. With his size and athleticism, there's no reason why Danilo Gallinari or Enes Kanter should be a better rim-protectors than him.

What are these numbers? The difference in the players' FG% within 6 feet against those particular defenders? The difference in league average within 6 feet of the rim?

Sucks seeing Alex Len in the top 6. But glad he's doing well as he had improved a lot last year and had he been focusing on defense, rebounding and just finishing inside like last year his whole career we may not have thought we needed a C.

[Jstock12]

Towns as a rook was more aggressive than Ayton.Can't play a lick of defense, but he's always been greedy on offense.

While it's true that Towns is a disaster on defense, he's always been a respectable rim-protector. This season he's got a great DFG% inside 6 feet (-6.8%). That's comparable rim-protection to guys like Joel Embiid or Jarrett Allen.


Top rim-protectors this season (among all 34 players who played at least 10 games, and defend 5 or more FGA inside 6 feet per game):


1. Hassan Whiteside -12.9%
2. Serge Ibaka -11.5%
3. Wendel Carter Jr. -10.6%
4. JaVale McGee -10.4%
5. Myles Turner -10.0%
6. Alex Len -10.0%
7. Jusuf Nurkic -9.8%
8. Derrick Favors -9.5%
9. Jaren Jackson Jr -9.3%
10. Joel Embiid -8.4%
...
13. Karl-Anthony Towns -6.8%
...
...
...
34. Deandre Ayton +2.1%


Interestingly enough, a guy like Sabonis is also a pretty good rim-protector even though he only averages 0.7 bpg. Despite lacking length and athleticism his DFG% inside 6 feet is -4.8% which ranks 18th out of 34 qualified players. It also proves you don't need to get actual blocks to be an effective rim-protector. Just bother the shooters with your size, which Ayton can definitely do... He needs proper coaching on that end and the willingness to do it. With his size and athleticism, there's no reason why Danilo Gallinari or Enes Kanter should be a better rim-protectors than him.

What are these numbers? The difference in the players' FG% within 6 feet against those particular defenders? The difference in league average within 6 feet of the rim?

Sucks seeing Alex Len in the top 6. But glad he's doing well as he had improved a lot last year and had he been focusing on defense, rebounding and just finishing inside like last year his whole career we may not have thought we needed a C.

When players are defended by Alex Len within 6 feet from the basket, their season averages from within 6 feet drop by 10%. The only season when Len wasn't a positive rim-protector was his rookie year when he had an even worse DFG within 6 ft than Ayton's (+2.9%). So there's hope for Deandre

[Saberestar]

Read on Twitter

[bwgood77]

While it's true that Towns is a disaster on defense, he's always been a respectable rim-protector. This season he's got a great DFG% inside 6 feet (-6.8%). That's comparable rim-protection to guys like Joel Embiid or Jarrett Allen.


Top rim-protectors this season (among all 34 players who played at least 10 games, and defend 5 or more FGA inside 6 feet per game):


1. Hassan Whiteside -12.9%
2. Serge Ibaka -11.5%
3. Wendel Carter Jr. -10.6%
4. JaVale McGee -10.4%
5. Myles Turner -10.0%
6. Alex Len -10.0%
7. Jusuf Nurkic -9.8%
8. Derrick Favors -9.5%
9. Jaren Jackson Jr -9.3%
10. Joel Embiid -8.4%
...
13. Karl-Anthony Towns -6.8%
...
...
...
34. Deandre Ayton +2.1%


Interestingly enough, a guy like Sabonis is also a pretty good rim-protector even though he only averages 0.7 bpg. Despite lacking length and athleticism his DFG% inside 6 feet is -4.8% which ranks 18th out of 34 qualified players. It also proves you don't need to get actual blocks to be an effective rim-protector. Just bother the shooters with your size, which Ayton can definitely do... He needs proper coaching on that end and the willingness to do it. With his size and athleticism, there's no reason why Danilo Gallinari or Enes Kanter should be a better rim-protectors than him.

What are these numbers? The difference in the players' FG% within 6 feet against those particular defenders? The difference in league average within 6 feet of the rim?

Sucks seeing Alex Len in the top 6. But glad he's doing well as he had improved a lot last year and had he been focusing on defense, rebounding and just finishing inside like last year his whole career we may not have thought we needed a C.

When players are defended by Alex Len within 6 feet from the basket, their season averages from within 6 feet drop by 10%. The only season when Len wasn't a positive rim-protector was his rookie year when he had an even worse DFG within 6 ft than Ayton's (+2.9%). So there's hope for Deandre

What about some of those guys in the top 10 as rookies? Or Gobert in his career? Or Jokic? Do rookies typically not do well?

Obviously Carter Jr and JJJ are killing it this year but I wonder how often that happens.

[Jstock12]

What are these numbers? The difference in the players' FG% within 6 feet against those particular defenders? The difference in league average within 6 feet of the rim?

Sucks seeing Alex Len in the top 6. But glad he's doing well as he had improved a lot last year and had he been focusing on defense, rebounding and just finishing inside like last year his whole career we may not have thought we needed a C.

When players are defended by Alex Len within 6 feet from the basket, their season averages from within 6 feet drop by 10%. The only season when Len wasn't a positive rim-protector was his rookie year when he had an even worse DFG within 6 ft than Ayton's (+2.9%). So there's hope for Deandre

What about some of those guys in the top 10 as rookies? Or Gobert in his career? Or Jokic? Do rookies typically not do well?

Obviously Carter Jr and JJJ are killing it this year but I wonder how often that happens.

Jokic was -7.3% in his rookie year (this season he's -7.0%), which is excellent. It doesn't surprise me though, he's got an amazing IQ and is probably the most skilled big man in the league. Gobert was -8.4% as a rookie, but that was why he was drafted in the first place. Ayton was drafted for different reasons. Yes, it seems like it's quite rare that a player improves at rim-protection as much as Len did, but it's not impossible.