NBA Draft 2024

[Slim Charless]

you can get non shooting dirt workers from the G League

Not ones that have DPOTY potential. Along with making multiple all defense teams.

There have been better defenders who weren't ever DPOY/All-D players because they weren't able to stay on the floor long enough to make a difference.

....and there's guys like Rudy Gobert who've won 4 DPOTYs and can't shoot work a lick. Same with Ben Wallace and Mutumbo. Bruce Bowen (ugh) couldn't shoot and he was 1st team many years. Same with Tony Allen.

Let me know when you've seen enough as I can keep naming players for you. Lack of shooting doesn't mean as much if you provide ELITE defense and have complimentary teammates.

[Ghost of Kleine]

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[darealjuice]

Not a big fan of Dunn. Great defense, but you need to be able to shoot these days, and I'm not optimistic on him suddenly learning to shoot. Best case he ends up like Herb Jones, but it seems more likely he'll be a 10th man. Sounds like he's had good workouts though, so I hope I'm wrong.

I think I would have preferred sticking at 22 for Holmes or picking Smith or Collier at 28.

[bwgood77]

Dunn will be fine for what we need....a dirty work defender. The shooting aspect I can live with as the other 3 will be gunning all the time. His defense and his ability to create turnovers will be a Godsend to this team and will do more good than Kolek would've done. Now, if you were to tell me Flipkowski then I'll listen as he can do PG stuff from the 5 spot.

If the Suns trade for Sengun tho then he and Flip can't play together. Dunn is a lock down defender and turnover creator if he plays like his taoe and numbers suggest.

That archetype fits any team that has 3 high level scorers....like us.

you can get non shooting dirt workers from the G League

Lou Dort is a good example.

He was undrafted and signed by OKC, while he was a pretty bad 3pt shooter he improved his shot so you can no longer just leave him wide open from 3.

Yeah, he's the one example, and it took him 5 years or so, but he also shot 31% from 3 and 70% from the line in college...that's not that good but a lot different than 20% and 53%.

And of course he went undrafted.

This was a bad draft though.

[sunsbg]

If we were a fast tempo team I can see him getting minutes right away, but on this team - bench warmer next to JO is the most likely outcome until he learns to shoot.

[bwgood77]

One thing Dunn will be good at is igniting the fast break with steals and blocks off the backboard, etc. And he can certainly dunk.

I just don't see him getting playing time often being we want to contend.

The 2nd round is interesting. I do wonder if Phx likes Dunn. And with Bartelstein as his agent, I wonder if he can control much where he gets drafted.

The thing about the 2nd round is that there is no salary scale, so getting drafted at 31 is no different than going at 58. You could get paid just as much.

I wonder if we DO like him if his agent, being the father of our President, would try and dissuade other teams from drafting him.

[lilfishi22]

Not ones that have DPOTY potential. Along with making multiple all defense teams.

There have been better defenders who weren't ever DPOY/All-D players because they weren't able to stay on the floor long enough to make a difference.

....and there's guys like Rudy Gobert who've won 4 DPOTYs and can't shoot work a lick. Same with Ben Wallace and Mutumbo. Bruce Bowen (ugh) couldn't shoot and he was 1st team many years. Same with Tony Allen.

Let me know when you've seen enough as I can keep naming players for you. Lack of shooting doesn't mean as much if you provide ELITE defense and have complimentary teammates.

In the decades there have been far more players who have come in as defensive standouts but can't stay on the floor long enough to make a difference than there have been the Ben Wallaces, Mutumbos and Goberts. Those are the exceptions NOT the rule

Here's a few guys who came into the league as elite defensive prospects that never left their mark in the NBA: Michael Kidd Gilchrist, Justise Winslow, Hasheem Thabeet, Jarvis Varnardo, Mo Bamba, Ekpe Udoh....

[RaisingArizona]

One thing Dunn will be good at is igniting the fast break with steals and blocks off the backboard, etc. And he can certainly dunk.

I just don't see him getting playing time often being we want to contend.

The 2nd round is interesting. I do wonder if Phx likes Dunn. And with Bartelstein as his agent, I wonder if he can control much where he gets drafted.

The thing about the 2nd round is that there is no salary scale, so getting drafted at 31 is no different than going at 58. You could get paid just as much.

I wonder if we DO like him if his agent, being the father of our President, would try and dissuade other teams from drafting him.

Wait. Another Dunn? You mean Kolek?

[Revived]

I don’t know much about this draft but I trust the consensus/folks on this forum FAR MORE than Suns management on draft prospects.

Posters here have done far better than James Jones stupid ass.

Dunn looks special defensively but awful on offense. Basically a bigger Josh Okogie?

Or similar to the kid the Suns drafted in the 2nd last year and dumped to Portland?

I would’ve rather got an actual C or PG.

[jcsunsfan]

For those upset with this pick, it was the 28th pick. Even at 22, what do you expect? The perfect player is no longer on the board. Every remaining player has major flaws which is why they have dropped so much.
As has been stated. You can fix shooting, but you can't really teach /improve defense significantly.
Maybe he improves or maybe he's another Okogie. Even if you don't like it, we added a contract and a few more assets we can use to trade players this season (IE: Little)

I am so glad he was a bad shooter in college. If he wasn't, we never would have been able to draft him. The perfect scenario is for him now to work on his shooting and become the dirt-working forward we need along side of KD. BTW, his offense outside of his three point shooting is not bad. He is great as a cutter and finisher, so its not like he will have no offensive presence. There are some effective offensive players in the league that really don't shoot threes well.

As a defender, he is not only the best defender in the draft--and its not close (according to NBAdraft.net), he is one of the best defenders coming out of the draft in recent memory. Players like that change games. I am happy with this.

I am looking forward to watching this guy play.

[Slim Charless]

you can get non shooting dirt workers from the G League

Lou Dort is a good example.

He was undrafted and signed by OKC, while he was a pretty bad 3pt shooter he improved his shot so you can no longer just leave him wide open from 3.

Yeah, he's the one example, and it took him 5 years or so, but he also shot 31% from 3 and 70% from the line in college...that's not that good but a lot different than 20% and 53%.

And of course he went undrafted.

This was a bad draft though.

If it's a bad draft (and everyone says it is) then doesn't it make sense to get the sure thing?

I mean can you tell me for sure that Kolek/Collier can run an NBA offense effectively and not get played off the court via defense and ability to do it at this level in 3 years? Cause I can tell you that 3 years from now Dunn will be able to stay in front of his man. Take the guaranteed thing.

I'd bet on it.

[Revived]

Is there a big difference between a guy like Dunn and Mattise Thybulle?

Seems like another guy other teams can double off to trap Booker, KD and Beal.

[garrick]

Lou Dort is a good example.

He was undrafted and signed by OKC, while he was a pretty bad 3pt shooter he improved his shot so you can no longer just leave him wide open from 3.

Yeah, he's the one example, and it took him 5 years or so, but he also shot 31% from 3 and 70% from the line in college...that's not that good but a lot different than 20% and 53%.

And of course he went undrafted.

This was a bad draft though.

If it's a bad draft (and everyone says it is) then doesn't it make sense to get the sure thing?

I mean can you tell me for sure that Kolek/Collier can run an NBA offense effectively and not get played off the court via defense and ability to do it at this level in 3 years? Cause I can tell you that 3 years from now Dunn will be able to stay in front of his man. Take the guaranteed thing.

I'd bet on it.

You could say the same about Okogie and Little though.

Wing players that can play good defense that can't shoot are not at all uncommon and you know how teams exploited Okogie's lack of shooting skills allowing them to double anyone else that was a remotely a threat to score.

[Slim Charless]

Is there a big difference between a guy like Dunn and Mattise Thybulle?

Seems like another guy other teams can double off to trap Booker, KD and Beal.

Yeah, he's the one example, and it took him 5 years or so, but he also shot 31% from 3 and 70% from the line in college...that's not that good but a lot different than 20% and 53%.

And of course he went undrafted.

This was a bad draft though.

If it's a bad draft (and everyone says it is) then doesn't it make sense to get the sure thing?

I mean can you tell me for sure that Kolek/Collier can run an NBA offense effectively and not get played off the court via defense and ability to do it at this level in 3 years? Cause I can tell you that 3 years from now Dunn will be able to stay in front of his man. Take the guaranteed thing.

I'd bet on it.

You could say the same about Okogie and Little though.

Wing players that can play good defense that can't shoot are not at all uncommon and you know how teams exploited Okogie's lack of shooting skills allowing them to double anyone else that was a remotely a threat to score.

Good defense≠Great defense

You're not comparing remotely the same things here boys.

[lilfishi22]

Is there a big difference between a guy like Dunn and Mattise Thybulle?

Seems like another guy other teams can double off to trap Booker, KD and Beal.

Size

And Thybulle came into the league with considerably more respectable shooting than Dunn but both were defensive wizards. Problem again, Thybulle couldn't play more 20mpg in his first two seasons because he couldn't replicate his basic but respectable offense from college and was then considered as a minus offensively. Averaged 17mpg in the playoffs for similar reasons.

[Ghost of Kleine]

I do believe that we can still get Kolek in the 2nd round too, IF we value him still as an option. But in order to do that, we'd very likely need to secure a pick in the 32-45 ranges. And for that, I'd think that you'd absolutely have to look at these teams:

1- Portland (34th pick)
This would likely need to be a there team trade to get Portland another player they'd value back. And I'd want Timlord back in the deal too.
Portland/LA / Phoenix

Portland- Hachimura/ 26' 2nd.
Los Angeles- Nurkic/ BOS 28' 2nd.
Phoenix- Robert Williams/ Toumani Camara/ 34th pick (Kolek).

2- San Antonio (35th pick)
San Antonio/Phoenix

San Antonio-
Nurkic/ BOS/28' 2nd/ 26' DEN 2nd.

Phoenix-
Devonte Graham 12 million contract (Only 2 million guaranteed if waived by July 1st 2024)/ 35th pick (Kolek). I'd either waive Graham's $12.6 million or flip it to Portland for Timelords' $12.4 million contract (that they don't need anymore with Ayton and now Edey too.

3- Charlotte (42nd pick) ** Alternatively for Mitchell if Kolek is gone!
Charlotte/Phoenix
Charlotte-
Nurkic/ DEN 26' 2nd/ Bos 28' 2nd.

Phoenix-
Nik Richards/ 42nd pick.

**** I'd immediately follow ALL OF these trades with:
Phoenix/ Utah

Utah-
Little/ PHX 2031 1st (Top 4 protected).

Phoenix-
Walker Kessler/ Micah Potter/ 32nd pick/ UTA 29' 2nd/ UTA 2031 2nd.

The reason that I'm keeping the 2031 1st out of the 3 above trades is specifically so we'd be able to use it on Ainge for Kessler in a follow-up trade. Because the outcome gives us Kolek (or Mitchell AND also fills BOTH our starting and backup center in these trades.

- Trade #1 outcome Ultimately nets us Kolek (or Mitchell), Robert Williams, and Walker Kessler PLUS Toumani Camara back.
- Trade #2 nets us Kolek (or Mitchell), Timelord, Walker Kessler, and cap reduction too.
- Trade #3 nets us- Kolek (or Mitchell), Nik Richards/ Walker Kessler.

So in any of these trades, we end up with a more cost-effective, switchable, athletic, shot-blocking starting center replacement option AND a high-end elite defensive rim running shot-blocking athletic, physical backup center AND either Kolek or Mitchell for playmaking/game management purposes. DISCLAIMER**** I don't really care about the 2031 1st or the future 2nds in these trades because we'll just make those picks back up once we trade KD, and possibly Beal or Booker or Allen or O'neale.

Bonus we'd still have the 56th pick in this draft for whomever the Suns are targeting in that range! (Hopefully Ulriche Comche as a young raw potentially elite 4/5 shot-blocking/ 38% 3-point shooting/ 4 assists 3 & D big with an Al Horford/ Serge Ibaka archetype).

[BurningHeart]

It seems like Dunn is the high work ethic/energy/everywhere pick and just for that I'm happy with it. This team needs heart and soul. Period. Players feed off that. Maybe he can get some transition baskets and can cut to the rim. Offense can come.

I want someone actually happy to be in Phoenix. Someone who's actually gonna **** play. The "stars" we have now don't give a **** and it shows.

Let Dunn light a fire under their asses and the whole franchise if that's who he is. If this makes the team slightly more watchable I'm for it.

Now don't do anything ridiculous and bring the LeYuan James circus around this franchise. You don't solve Stage V cancer by just taking vials of cancer and injecting it straight into your bloodstream.

[Ghost of Kleine]

https://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/276279/Suns-Want-To-Evaluate-Core-Under-Mike-Budenholzer-Before-Considering-Trade

The Phoenix Suns do not currently plan on entertaining a trade of either Kevin Durant or Devin Booker this offseason and want to see how their core could come together after replacing Frank Vogel with Mike Budenholzer.
.....7 hours ago

So apparently, the decision to trade KD will be determined by how we do this upcoming season, and the door is not completely closed on this premise!

[Ghost of Kleine]

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[Slim Charless]

There have been better defenders who weren't ever DPOY/All-D players because they weren't able to stay on the floor long enough to make a difference.

....and there's guys like Rudy Gobert who've won 4 DPOTYs and can't shoot work a lick. Same with Ben Wallace and Mutumbo. Bruce Bowen (ugh) couldn't shoot and he was 1st team many years. Same with Tony Allen.

Let me know when you've seen enough as I can keep naming players for you. Lack of shooting doesn't mean as much if you provide ELITE defense and have complimentary teammates.

In the decades there have been far more players who have come in as defensive standouts but can't stay on the floor long enough to make a difference than there have been the Ben Wallaces, Mutumbos and Goberts. Those are the exceptions NOT the rule

Here's a few guys who came into the league as elite defensive prospects that never left their mark in the NBA: Michael Kidd Gilchrist, Justise Winslow, Hasheem Thabeet, Jarvis Varnardo, Mo Bamba, Ekpe Udoh....

None of those guys have had even the remotely close to the defense numbers and everything that Dunn has had. MKG and Justice were closest but still a loooooooong way from what Dunn did. Can we at least have this discussion in an adult way? I show you a historic prospect and you throw Thabeet back at me, lol.