The One And Only Offseason Thread 4

[RunDogGun]

Yep, there is no reason for us to offer more money, for it seems as if it's Bledsoe's agent that is asking for more money.

We aren't going to make Bledsoe our signature player with a five year extension. The market has spoken, and Bledsoe is worth about $12 million/year over a four year contract.

Now I'm ok with some bonuses for allstar and all nba squads, but zero need for us to go above 4/$48.

[Kerrsed]

Bledsoe wants money nobody has shown the desire to offer, and more importantly, that nobody has the ability to offer aside from Phoenix, so why would Phoenix bid against itself?

Thats not necessarily true. There are a few teams out there that would give Bledsoe the the money he desires, but it requires a S&T. Thats what his agent has been pushing for, but the Suns have veto'd that idea as they do not like what our return would be. He can get a max contract, but that would require us helping him get that and so far it looks like we arnt willing to do so. The longer this drags out the better it is for Bledsoe. Its been about a month and fans are already starting to sour on him, another month goes by and he loses the remaining fan support that he still has and it helps force our FO to do something that they seem to not want to do.

[aIvin adams]

Bledsoe wants money nobody has shown the desire to offer, and more importantly, that nobody has the ability to offer aside from Phoenix, so why would Phoenix bid against itself?

Thats not necessarily true. There are a few teams out there that would give Bledsoe the the money he desires, but it requires a S&T. Thats what his agent has been pushing for, but the Suns have veto'd that idea as they do not like what our return would be. He can get a max contract, but that would require us helping him get that and so far it looks like we arnt willing to do so. The longer this drags out the better it is for Bledsoe. Its been about a month and fans are already starting to sour on him, another month goes by and he loses the remaining fan support that he still has and it helps force our FO to do something that they seem to not want to do.

"all of the fans souring on Bledsoe are playing into his agent's hands"

[RunDogGun]

Yep, fans' disdain will force the FO to do something they don't want to do, just like Sarver selling the team.

[RunDogGun]

Bledsoe wants money nobody has shown the desire to offer, and more importantly, that nobody has the ability to offer aside from Phoenix, so why would Phoenix bid against itself?

Thats not necessarily true. There are a few teams out there that would give Bledsoe the the money he desires, but it requires a S&T. Thats what his agent has been pushing for, but the Suns have veto'd that idea as they do not like what our return would be. He can get a max contract, but that would require us helping him get that and so far it looks like we arnt willing to do so. The longer this drags out the better it is for Bledsoe. Its been about a month and fans are already starting to sour on him, another month goes by and he loses the remaining fan support that he still has and it helps force our FO to do something that they seem to not want to do.

I call bs on the last part.

[bwgood77]

Interesting to see in the wiretaps that Mark Jackson is going to hire Rich Paul as an agent.

"Stupid is as stupid does".

We may all by wrong on Rich Paul. He may be doing do diligence for his player.

The reason he may be right.

What happens if Ricky Rubio gets a 5 year $85 Million extension from the Timberwolves?

Read this on Hoops Hype:

Your agent is negotiating a $85 million contract and you act all normal. Ricky Rubio: I try to stay away from that. I'm not going to lie: I talk to my agent about it, but that's his thing. On the court, I do my work and enjoy when I play. Signing a contract or not is not going to change who I am. - See more at: http://hoopshype.com/rumors.htm#sthash.xGvAUrAp.dpuf

Who is the better player and worth more, Rickey or EB?

Just a thought

I noticed that earlier. Rubio has had more time to play, but it really depends on what you need. If Rubio could shoot, he'd definitely be better. He is pretty much better at everything except shooting and blocks. So if you really want a floor general who is a great defender, Rubio might be your pick.

Bledsoe hasn't shown he can lead a team by himself and I believe it's been shown that Bledsoe as the sole point guard playing with our starters is a losing proposition, projecting to about 30 wins, and Dragic without Bledsoe is a little better than 500, projecting to 42 wins.

Rubio led his team to 40 wins, though if you were projecting by point differential, they should have been better, so their reasons for coming up short on wins is debatable...some say bad luck, and some think they are not clutch, maybe a little of both. Also, our bench is definitely superior. With Love in the game, they outscore their opponents handily, but without him, they are terrible.

As bad as the Timberwolves have been overall, they have been worse without Love. As the chart at right shows, according to NBA.com/Stats, without Love on the floor, Minnesota has been outscored by at least 4.7 points per 100 possessions -- a mark equivalent to last season's Detroit Pistons -- in five of his six seasons. The only exception was 2012-13, when Love was limited to 18 games after breaking a bone in his hand during training camp.

Last season, the Timberwolves outscored opponents by 4.4 points per 100 possessions with Love on the floor, a mark similar to the Miami Heat with Ray Allen, for one. They were done in by their poor bench -- exacerbated by Adelman playing his starters together, which inflated their ratings at the expense of reserves -- and a historic inability to win close games. Minnesota finished with the league's 10th-best point differential, which would have ranked fourth in the East.

Even discounting those issues, the Timberwolves' combination of a high-rated star and a below-.500 finish was rare but not unprecedented. Love joined five other examples since the ABA-NBA merger, including Michael Jordan twice, of a player posting 20-plus wins above replacement player for a sub-.500 team.

http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/story/_/ ... rainer-nba The chart he refers to also lists KG, Moses, and Barkley as the other players who had similar numbers as Love and played with teams that finished below 500.

For the record, I'd probably rather have Bledsoe, but if Rubio could improve his shooting, it would pretty easily be him, as I love great passers. Here is a comparison of Rubio and Bledsoe, showing Rubio's better numbers other than shooting and blocks (but neither of them blocks too much....Bledsoe only had 14 blocks in 43 games). http://bkref.com/tiny/0N3Zs

[lilfishi22]

I'd take Rubio over Bledsoe if he could learn to be a decent shooter. Doesn't need to be a scorer just need to be able to hit shots.

[bwgood77]

Bledsoe wants money nobody has shown the desire to offer, and more importantly, that nobody has the ability to offer aside from Phoenix, so why would Phoenix bid against itself?

Thats not necessarily true. There are a few teams out there that would give Bledsoe the the money he desires, but it requires a S&T. Thats what his agent has been pushing for, but the Suns have veto'd that idea as they do not like what our return would be. He can get a max contract, but that would require us helping him get that and so far it looks like we arnt willing to do so. The longer this drags out the better it is for Bledsoe. Its been about a month and fans are already starting to sour on him, another month goes by and he loses the remaining fan support that he still has and it helps force our FO to do something that they seem to not want to do.

I don't know that any team is willing to give him the max. That's never been reported, and plenty of teams could have offered him the max early in free agency but none did and then they decided to sign other players instead. It was reported by NotTraxxe I believe (possibly ray ray) that one team offered him a little better contract than the Suns offered but he rejected it wanting more.

I wouldn't be surprised if Milwaukee would pay him the max, but we don't know for sure, and possibly Detroit, but no one else. I guess possibly Brooklyn or NY if they had the cap space but I know Phil really wanted Calderon and Brooklyn can't do it, though I'm sure they'd love to trade Deron Williams for him. But none of this really matters.

[AtheJ415]

Name those teams and where you're getting that from.

Bledsoe wants money nobody has shown the desire to offer, and more importantly, that nobody has the ability to offer aside from Phoenix, so why would Phoenix bid against itself?

Thats not necessarily true. There are a few teams out there that would give Bledsoe the the money he desires, but it requires a S&T. Thats what his agent has been pushing for, but the Suns have veto'd that idea as they do not like what our return would be. He can get a max contract, but that would require us helping him get that and so far it looks like we arnt willing to do so. The longer this drags out the better it is for Bledsoe. Its been about a month and fans are already starting to sour on him, another month goes by and he loses the remaining fan support that he still has and it helps force our FO to do something that they seem to not want to do.

[Saberestar]

You have to weight that Rubio shoots an horrendous .39 2P% and he does not shoots threes (because he is bad at that, basically).
He is putting less than 10 points per game, he has not improve at all in the last years...he is damaging to the Wolves, he is not a lock down defender or someone that is leading the league in assists ala Stockton. Sorry, but I think Rubio is overrated and is way worse than Bledsoe like an overall player.

[jredsaz]

Bledsoe wants money nobody has shown the desire to offer, and more importantly, that nobody has the ability to offer aside from Phoenix, so why would Phoenix bid against itself?

Thats not necessarily true. There are a few teams out there that would give Bledsoe the the money he desires, but it requires a S&T. Thats what his agent has been pushing for, but the Suns have veto'd that idea as they do not like what our return would be. He can get a max contract, but that would require us helping him get that and so far it looks like we arnt willing to do so. The longer this drags out the better it is for Bledsoe. Its been about a month and fans are already starting to sour on him, another month goes by and he loses the remaining fan support that he still has and it helps force our FO to do something that they seem to not want to do.

I call bs on the last part.

Creating panic in the fan base and, in turn the media, CAN change the dynamic substantially. It looks like creating outside pressure and threatening the use of the QO is the Paul/Bledsoe strategy. I don't think McD and Co. will allow the noise to influence their decision but a player allowing this kind of scorched-earth strategy must convey some concern.

[BringinDaRuckus]

I'd take Rubio over Bledsoe if he could learn to be a decent shooter. Doesn't need to be a scorer just need to be able to hit shots.

Problem is, his shooting %'s have been horrible since he has been in the league. And even though they have improved year after year, it's still well below the norm. At the rate he is going, he should be able to hit shots at a 45% clip in the '16-'17 season.

[lilfishi22]

Name those teams and where you're getting that from.

Bledsoe wants money nobody has shown the desire to offer, and more importantly, that nobody has the ability to offer aside from Phoenix, so why would Phoenix bid against itself?

Thats not necessarily true. There are a few teams out there that would give Bledsoe the the money he desires, but it requires a S&T. Thats what his agent has been pushing for, but the Suns have veto'd that idea as they do not like what our return would be. He can get a max contract, but that would require us helping him get that and so far it looks like we arnt willing to do so. The longer this drags out the better it is for Bledsoe. Its been about a month and fans are already starting to sour on him, another month goes by and he loses the remaining fan support that he still has and it helps force our FO to do something that they seem to not want to do.

I'd imagine that is pure speculation unless Kerrsed is getting information which isn't public (ie from Notraxxe or ray ray). I could see teams the historical big spenders paying more for Bledsoe but I don't know any team is crazy enough to offer him the full 5 year max.

Also, no biggie, but the reply convention is to put your reply after the comment you're replying to as opposed to putting in your reply then the comment. Again, no biggie, just looks...off

[lilfishi22]

I'd take Rubio over Bledsoe if he could learn to be a decent shooter. Doesn't need to be a scorer just need to be able to hit shots.

Problem is, his shooting %'s have been horrible since he has been in the league. And even though they have improved year after year, it's still well below the norm. At the rate he is going, he should be able to hit shots at a 45% clip in the '16-'17 season.

I did say I'd take Rubio over Bledsoe only if he can be a decent shooter.

[bwgood77]

I already posted the potential trade scenario in the Around the NBA thread, but another report has come out about Minnesota wanting Thaddeus Young as a replacement for Love.

http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/11277 ... kevin-love

How many wins do you think Minnesota would get if they had a lineup of

Rubio/Shved
Martin/Muhammad/LaVine
Wiggins/Brewer/Budinger/Mbah-A Moute (maybe even Brewer, Budinger or Mbah A Moute start for awhile)
Young/MBah-A-Moute/Bennett
Pekovic/Dieng

That team looks MUCH deeper than last years, partially because Budinger was out a ton and Dieng came on near the end of the year, and than MBah A Moute was a nice addition. A bunch of young guys with a ton of potential too.

[RunDogGun]

Please provide link to Bledsoe or his agent threatening to take the QO! If not, just more bs.

Bledsoe is not in the driver's seat, and has no leverage since no offer sheets were handed out, or even reported. The Suns can just extend another QO in October and force Bledsoe to either take it, or go overseas and do this process all over again next offseason. With us signing IT, we are covered.

[bwgood77]

You have to weight that Rubio shoots an horrendous .39 2P% and he does not shoots threes (because he is bad at that, basically).
He is putting less than 10 points per game, he has not improve at all in the last years...he is damaging to the Wolves, he is not a lock down defender or someone that is leading the league in assists ala Stockton. Sorry, but I think Rubio is overrated and is way worse than Bledsoe like an overall player.

He is not a lockdown defender? He got more than twice as many votes as Bledsoe for the all defensive team voting. http://www.nba.com/2014/news/06/02/2014 ... ense-team/

I think Bledsoe may be better, but it's not by much and by most all accounts, Rubio is a great defender.

[lilfishi22]

I don't see how taking or even threatening the QO is beneficial to Bledsoe'e camp at all. He loses an offer on the table and risks another year while playing "for peanuts". Even after next season, we would still have his Bird rights which means we can offer a 5th year that no other team could.

[WeekapaugGroove]

Please provide link to Bledsoe or his agent threatening to take the QO! If not, just more bs.

Bledsoe is not in the driver's seat, and has no leverage since no offer sheets were handed out, or even reported. The Suns can just extend another QO in October and force Bledsoe to either take it, or go overseas and do this process all over again next offseason. With us signing IT, we are covered.

of course his camp will threaten the QO it's a negotiation and it one of the few leverage points they have. I guess anything is possible and he could take the QO but I really really doubt he will. As has been stated here before it's a huge risk with very little financial upside.

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[Saberestar]

You have to weight that Rubio shoots an horrendous .39 2P% and he does not shoots threes (because he is bad at that, basically).
He is putting less than 10 points per game, he has not improve at all in the last years...he is damaging to the Wolves, he is not a lock down defender or someone that is leading the league in assists ala Stockton. Sorry, but I think Rubio is overrated and is way worse than Bledsoe like an overall player.

He is not a lockdown defender? He got more than twice as many votes as Bledsoe for the all defensive team voting. http://www.nba.com/2014/news/06/02/2014 ... ense-team/

I think Bledsoe may be better, but it's not by much and by most all accounts, Rubio is a great defender.

Well, I have seen him play a ton of years and I think he has great instincts to make steals, and with his wingspan he produces more than 2 steals per game. BUT, defense is not only that. He has not strengh or desire to fight screens, is owned in the post or is schooled one on one for a lot of PG in this league. Nash,Dragic and Isaiah have made an amazing games against him, and they were fresh and rested all those games because you have to defend a lot less to a player that is always looking to pass the ball and is not a real threat on offense.