2016 Draft Thread Part 4

[bwgood77]

BPA is Murray or Dunn.

Dunn is BPA RIGHT NOW. Hield and Murray next best...maybe Hield slightly right now. I'd take who I thought would turn into the best player down the road. I think it could be Dunn but we don't want him. It could be Murray, but he can't pass or play D. Hield is kind of a one trick pony. Both PFs have their own weaknesses as well but have more different areas of strength, even though they are not as elite at that ONE strength Murray and Hield have.

I like versatile like Draymond. I like perimeter defense. I like passing. I like shooting. I like shot blockers. Is Bender elite at any of these? No, but very good for his age at that young age. You could argue that he looks better than Booker did at passing in the draft, and he's certainly better at defense and blocking shots, AND he plays a position of need.

I like the appeal of what Chriss might be able to do but there are more worries about how bad he is in areas right now, and bbiq, another thing which Bender has.

To me, overall, Bender, in the long run is the BPA. Possibly Murray could be as well in a McCollum sort of way, but we already have Booker and I'm not convinced Murray can pass or play D.

Dunn right now and long term may have the best chance of being the best, but he has turnover and shooting problems. Due to Bledsoe's injury concerns he would make sense but he doesn't want to be here and I think McD is committed to Bledsoe for now and probably to Knight unless an offer is too good to pass up. I just don't see any PFs available in trade. I'm not even entirely sure Butler is even on the table. They will probably listen but I don't know who can give a great offer. Minnesota can probably give the best one.

[Kerrsed]

If we do end up trading a PG, we HAVE to pick up Payton. Seriously, i just spent the better part of 30 minutes watching videos and he is amazballs. Still dont understand how a guy his size can play the defense that he does and get so damn high up in the air. One senior that i wouldnt mind nabbing with our #34 pick.

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SX8r-eHCXUk[/youtube]

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HUpF4FnfxJU[/youtube]

[Cactus Jack]

Yup. I think Chriss is our pick. All of this Twitter stuff, plus that picture of Bender with McD, Bender looks uncomfortable like he's adjusting his shirt, I know it's only one picture but still.
Lets all jump on the Chriss train, dude is going to be the next Paul George!

[saintEscaton]

Yup. I think Chriss is our pick. All of this Twitter stuff, plus that picture of Bender with McD, Bender looks uncomfortable like he's adjusting his shirt, I know it's only one picture but still.
Lets all jump on the Chriss train, dude is going to be the next Paul George!

Stop

[Waylay13]

A random guy (historically) like Frye, Teletovic, Warrick, Leuer etc...would most likely outperform Chriss or Bender at least for 1-2 years, and by then who knows what position of need is.

So take Chriss or Bender if they're considered BPA no problem. They're both unlikely to be in the rotation much anyway, so picking for need for player 11 on the roster (Assume signing a PF starter and Teletovic) doesn't make much sense.

but Chriss and Bender would still have more value than a player that was drafted behind Booker, Bogdanovic, Knight and Goodwin. Picking players like J. Murray or Hield is a complete waste because they wont get playing time over Booker and they don't have the size. speed or skills to play other position.s

[thamadkant]

A random guy (historically) like Frye, Teletovic, Warrick, Leuer etc...would most likely outperform Chriss or Bender at least for 1-2 years, and by then who knows what position of need is.

So take Chriss or Bender if they're considered BPA no problem.

Bender yes... he just doesnt have enough game time against similarly sized players.. he barely played.


But Chriss... I'm not sure..

McD has good sense and scouting skills... if he picks Chriss there is something that he KNOWs that will work with Chriss's strengths and abilities.

[letsgosuns]

I do understand the knock on players that are so young like Chriss and Bender. People say things like Chriss is not a good rebounder and not a great defender or Bender is too skinny and weak but my thoughts are, don't you guys think they can improve. Can't Chriss learn how to rebound and play defense. Can't Bender get stronger. I understand people's concerns but at some point I think it goes overboard when you are talking about athletes that are still teenagers. Not every player is Magic Johnson when they come into the league. Everybody used to say when Amare was 19 he cannot shoot a jump shot. He turned into one of the best mid-range shooting big men in basketball for the majority of his career. These players can improve. All you need is the right attitude. I just hope whoever the Suns pick has the drive to be a champion.

[Fo-Real]

Remember guys, no matter who we pick (or trade for Okafor) we got a great player if he reaches his ceiling.

Everyone falls prey to the "pie in the sky" syndrome trying to talk themselves into which leftover they would prefer.

Are you going to draft someone and expect him to fail?

Bottomline, no one is afraid or really concerned with who we draft more than we hope the guy doesn't bust and he reaches his potential.

"leftover?" lol! No one here has a real favorite, we are just hoping we get the right guy. Who is the "leftover" CJ, Greak Freak, Gobert, Adams, Green, Ginobili, Drummond, Curry, DeAndre Jordan, who...........?

I am not the sky is falling type, if I was I can't imagine where I'd be in life.

Yeah, after that comment all I could think is, what a **** attitude and outlook.

[8on]

BPA is Murray or Dunn.

Dunn is BPA RIGHT NOW. Hield and Murray next best...maybe Hield slightly right now. I'd take who I thought would turn into the best player down the road. I think it could be Dunn but we don't want him. It could be Murray, but he can't pass or play D. Hield is kind of a one trick pony. Both PFs have their own weaknesses as well but have more different areas of strength, even though they are not as elite at that ONE strength Murray and Hield have.

I like versatile like Draymond. I like perimeter defense. I like passing. I like shooting. I like shot blockers. Is Bender elite at any of these? No, but very good for his age at that young age. You could argue that he looks better than Booker did at passing in the draft, and he's certainly better at defense and blocking shots, AND he plays a position of need.

I like the appeal of what Chriss might be able to do but there are more worries about how bad he is in areas right now, and bbiq, another thing which Bender has.

To me, overall, Bender, in the long run is the BPA. Possibly Murray could be as well in a McCollum sort of way, but we already have Booker and I'm not convinced Murray can pass or play D.

Dunn right now and long term may have the best chance of being the best, but he has turnover and shooting problems. Due to Bledsoe's injury concerns he would make sense but he doesn't want to be here and I think McD is committed to Bledsoe for now and probably to Knight unless an offer is too good to pass up. I just don't see any PFs available in trade. I'm not even entirely sure Butler is even on the table. They will probably listen but I don't know who can give a great offer. Minnesota can probably give the best one.

sure, Dunn, Murray and Hield are BPA right now. it'll take Chriss and Bender 2-5 years to get the level that those three are at now. so, in four years, when we're screaming "TRADE ________!!!!!", it'll be because as a fanbase, we didn't give them enough time to develop before we all but call the commish ourselves. in the meantime, Dunn, Murray or Hield could be All-Stars in two to three years.

i don't know. that's the whole point. when you're talking about best prospect available, it could Bender or Chriss. but there's less risk to Dunn, Murray or Hield (especially Dunn and Murray), which is why I think they're better prospects. could Bender or Chriss have a higher ceiling than any of those three? yes, but those three have All-Star ceilings, so it would be really tough. but theoretically, sure.

[Kerrsed]

I do understand the knock on players that are so young like Chriss and Bender. People say things like Chriss is not a good rebounder and not a great defender or Bender is too skinny and weak but my thoughts are, don't you guys think they can improve. Can't Chriss learn how to rebound and play defense. Can't Bender get stronger. I understand people's concerns but at some point I think it goes overboard when you are talking about athletes that are still teenagers. Not every player is Magic Johnson when they come into the league. Everybody used to say when Amare was 19 he cannot shoot a jump shot. He turned into one of the best mid-range shooting big men in basketball for the majority of his career. These players can improve. All you need is the right attitude. I just hope whoever the Suns pick has that kind of drive.

Yes and no.

Defense is a hard thing to all of a sudden "Pick up". There are many many many guys in the league that were sorry defenders in college and even worse in the league. You have to have that defensive mentality. Most are born with it. If you have issues defending people in college, its only going to get harder once you step into the big leagues. Chriss fouled out of 11 of his first 20 games (which also had a negative impact on his time on the court and therefor negatively impacted his stats). 11 out of 20 games. That was him TRYING to play defense. after that 20 games, his defense got even worse as it seemed like he really wasnt even trying anymore, just so he didnt get the fouls and could stay in the games.

Rebounding can improve, but once again it all depends on what kind of player you are and how you play your game. His "Amare Like" jumpshot pulls him away from the basket and negates his ability to grab offensive rebounds. The more you play away from the basket, the less rebounds you get.

Here is a good video going over all that (and where i got a bit of my info on him) with College basketball expert Fran Fraschilla giving his take on Chriss:

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z9lnSS0RQbE[/youtube]

[saintEscaton]

Everyone falls prey to the "pie in the sky" syndrome trying to talk themselves into which leftover they would prefer.

Are you going to draft someone and expect him to fail?

Bottomline, no one is afraid or really concerned with who we draft more than we hope the guy doesn't bust and he reaches his potential.

"leftover?" lol! No one here has a real favorite, we are just hoping we get the right guy. Who is the "leftover" CJ, Greak Freak, Gobert, Adams, Green, Ginobili, Drummond, Curry, DeAndre Jordan, who...........?

I am not the sky is falling type, if I was I can't imagine where I'd be in life.

Yeah, after that comment all I could think is, what a **** attitude and outlook.

Just keeping it real . This class will liekly end up as bad as advertised. Wouldn't hitch my wagon onto any of these guys, I'll gladly take the under and hope to be proven wrong.

[thamadkant]

Chriss is indeed an average to mediocre rebounder, but he has the physical abilities to snatch rebounds away from players through sheer athleticism and explosiveness.... McD and the coaching staff probably saw "easy" fixes on him. Boxing out is one area he could learn... but most of us Suns fans dreamt of Amare learning to box out too... but he just didnt become "elite" at rebounding... mind you 8-9 rebounds a game for a PF is not bad... but not very good either.

Marion rarely boxed out for rebounds, his quickness, eagerness, quick second jump and athleticism made him a terrific rebounder... the main thing is... he went up and went hard on getting rebounds.... its an attitude thing also. And Marion is a special case afterall.. he was/is unique.

[letsgosuns]

I do understand the knock on players that are so young like Chriss and Bender. People say things like Chriss is not a good rebounder and not a great defender or Bender is too skinny and weak but my thoughts are, don't you guys think they can improve. Can't Chriss learn how to rebound and play defense. Can't Bender get stronger. I understand people's concerns but at some point I think it goes overboard when you are talking about athletes that are still teenagers. Not every player is Magic Johnson when they come into the league. Everybody used to say when Amare was 19 he cannot shoot a jump shot. He turned into one of the best mid-range shooting big men in basketball for the majority of his career. These players can improve. All you need is the right attitude. I just hope whoever the Suns pick has that kind of drive.

Yes and no.

Defense is a hard thing to all of a sudden "Pick up". There are many many many guys in the league that were sorry defenders in college and even worse in the league. You have to have that defensive mentality. Most are born with it. If you have issues defending people in college, its only going to get harder once you step into the big leagues. Chriss fouled out of 11 of his first 20 games (which also had a negative impact on his time on the court and therefor negatively impacted his stats). 11 out of 20 games. That was him TRYING to play defense. after that 20 games, his defense got even worse as it seemed like he really wasnt even trying anymore, just so he didnt get the fouls and could stay in the games.

Rebounding can improve, but once again it all depends on what kind of player you are and how you play your game. His "Amare Like" jumpshot pulls him away from the basket and negates his ability to grab offensive rebounds. The more you play away from the basket, the less rebounds you get.

Here is a good video going over all that (and where i got a bit of my info on him) with College basketball expert Fran Fraschilla giving his take on Chriss:

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z9lnSS0RQbE[/youtube]

Well do you think he can improve?

[bwgood77]

BPA is Murray or Dunn.

Dunn is BPA RIGHT NOW. Hield and Murray next best...maybe Hield slightly right now. I'd take who I thought would turn into the best player down the road. I think it could be Dunn but we don't want him. It could be Murray, but he can't pass or play D. Hield is kind of a one trick pony. Both PFs have their own weaknesses as well but have more different areas of strength, even though they are not as elite at that ONE strength Murray and Hield have.

I like versatile like Draymond. I like perimeter defense. I like passing. I like shooting. I like shot blockers. Is Bender elite at any of these? No, but very good for his age at that young age. You could argue that he looks better than Booker did at passing in the draft, and he's certainly better at defense and blocking shots, AND he plays a position of need.

I like the appeal of what Chriss might be able to do but there are more worries about how bad he is in areas right now, and bbiq, another thing which Bender has.

To me, overall, Bender, in the long run is the BPA. Possibly Murray could be as well in a McCollum sort of way, but we already have Booker and I'm not convinced Murray can pass or play D.

Dunn right now and long term may have the best chance of being the best, but he has turnover and shooting problems. Due to Bledsoe's injury concerns he would make sense but he doesn't want to be here and I think McD is committed to Bledsoe for now and probably to Knight unless an offer is too good to pass up. I just don't see any PFs available in trade. I'm not even entirely sure Butler is even on the table. They will probably listen but I don't know who can give a great offer. Minnesota can probably give the best one.

sure, Dunn, Murray and Hield are BPA right now. it'll take Chriss and Bender 2-5 years to get the level that those three are at now. so, in four years, when we're screaming "TRADE ________!!!!!", it'll be because as a fanbase, we didn't give them enough time to develop before we all but call the commish ourselves. in the meantime, Dunn, Murray or Hield could be All-Stars in two to three years.

i don't know. that's the whole point. when you're talking about best prospect available, it could Bender or Chriss. but there's less risk to Dunn, Murray or Hield (especially Dunn and Murray), which is why I think they're better prospects. could Bender or Chriss have a higher ceiling than any of those three? yes, but those three have All-Star ceilings, so it would be really tough. but theoretically, sure.

Those guys simply won't get much playing time on our roster, at least not soon. I still think there is a pretty good chance we take Murray though. Hopefully we can get Bender and if he's gone, Chriss, unless he has too many red flags, then take Murray, but I'd swing for the fences with Chriss in that scenario. And then get Luwawu at 13 if he doesn't want Sabonis (which at that point I think might be a wise pick now and I think he will have trade value if one of the other PFs pan out. If we are worried about Len, go with Ellenson, but he has some problems inside too. Then get LeVert later or another PF there like Hernagomez, or preferably both with the last two picks. At least LeVert can pass and will be more ready immediately if we choose to trade a guard.

[darealjuice]

I'll be jumping on the homer wagon no matter who we pick and hoping for the very best for them. With that said, I have a feeling we'll be going after Chriss.

[Kerrsed]

Well do you think he can improve?

Maybe a bit on his rebounding, but its his defense that im worried the most about.

[TheFire]

I often see Amare comparison made with Chriss in terms of athleticism and strength, but I just don't see it. Amare was a freak of nature coming out of high school and played with a much higher level of intensity. Chriss seems a lot more similar to Tyrus Thomas in size and style. This is a boom or bust pick as you can possibly make in the top 5.

[thamadkant]

Marquese Chriss, 6'10 (long neck), 233 pounds, 7'0 wingspan, 8'9 standing reach (short for a PF)
Hakim Warrick, 6'9, 215 pounds, 7'2 wingspan, 9'0 standing reach
Stromile Swift, 6'9, 220 pounds, 7'3 wingspan, 9'2 standing reach
Tyrus Thomas, 6'9, 217 pounds, 7'3 wingspan, 9'0 standing reach

I've mentioned this a few times, Chriss's more of a SF type reach.... similar to Markieff Morris..
I think Chriss could turn out to be a more athletic, above the rim version of Markieff without the back to the basket game.

[Fo-Real]

Are you going to draft someone and expect him to fail?

Bottomline, no one is afraid or really concerned with who we draft more than we hope the guy doesn't bust and he reaches his potential.

"leftover?" lol! No one here has a real favorite, we are just hoping we get the right guy. Who is the "leftover" CJ, Greak Freak, Gobert, Adams, Green, Ginobili, Drummond, Curry, DeAndre Jordan, who...........?

I am not the sky is falling type, if I was I can't imagine where I'd be in life.

Yeah, after that comment all I could think is, what a **** attitude and outlook.

Just keeping it. This class will liekly end up as bad as advertised. Wouldn't hitch my wagon onto any of these guys, I'll gladly take the under and hope to be proven wrong.

Well at some point you have to hitch that wagon to someone and hope for the best. None of these guys are without fault or weakness. None of these guys are the guaranteed next bug thing. It is a dice roll, and you have to try to stack your odds by picking the guy you feel MOST comfortable with because absolute comfort is not an option. Once you take that plunge though, you have to be positive about the decision and hope that kid has the burning desire inside of him to get better and not fail. In a situation like that, ABILITY should at least be there, hope the rest falls into place.

I didn't see Alex Len being our pick a few years back, it was a surprise and I was pissed, then I realized the future potential and could only person positive about the reasons the front office picked him and wished for the best. He hasn't yet lived up to his ability, but it's not over, and C's sometimes take longer. Cant just put your head down and think life is **** and why hope.

[letsgosuns]

Well do you think he can improve?

Maybe a bit on his rebounding, but its his defense that im worried the most about.

Okay. Well hopefully he gets better in all facets of his game. That would of course be the ideal outcome.