Dragan Bender News, Discussion and Highlights

[Ettorefm]

Its Elfs fault, and Watsons and Mc D and the team dynamic and the fact that he wasnt named starter his first minute and injuries and Bledso and Knight, and playing time and his shoe brand and role and .... and....and... His skill set tho, if everyone stops holding this franchise unicorn back, he is gonna take off. Thanks Obama! (sorry for my rant)

Yeah, probably it's even the Gorilla's fault that Bender has been playing TERRIBLE basketball for this two seasons.

Against the Clippers Bender embarrassed himself, he couldn't play worse on both ends of the floor. It was sad, seriously.

I heard all the time that he lacks confidence, but he lacks confidence because he doesn't have the skills to make things happen on a basketball court. He needs to train all summer long on his ball handling, pull ups jumpers, post up game, rebounding.....so many things on that he is really raw.

He needs to come from the bench next season and compete for minutes as a backup. He needs to earn playing time, if he is not good enough do not play him.

Perfect post. One thing is to have a guy with a great skillset but confidence problems. But when confidence problems arise from not having skills on practically anything basketball-wise, why shoiul this guy start or even get minutes?

[ImNotMcDiSwear]

It's just amazing to me that so many are ready to give up on Dragan. Dude is 20.

The Magic declined Mario Hezonja's option after a disappointing two seasons. Now, at 23, he's starting to break out. Happened for Kris Dunn at 24. Marc Gasol didn't join the league until he was 24.

20 is simply too young to have substantial expectations. I know the Suns want to move the timeline forward, but you don't sell low on Dragan or Quese. You can sell for something like fair value if it conforms to the plan, but otherwise, you keep working with them.

How many players out there are good enough to justify a package of #15 + Bender + Dudley/Chandler? The list is much longer, IMO, if you keep Bender out of the deal.

IDK. I'm worried we'll do something we will deeply regret.

[Saberestar]

It's just amazing to me that so many are ready to give up on Dragan. Dude is 20. As in 20 years old. As in, the same age as Robert Williams and Miles Bridges, as in, a year younger than Mikal Bridges. As in, 9 years younger than MarShon Brooks.

I am not giving up on Bender. I am just saying that he is bad right now. It's what it's.

[springcadre]

Why are fans so much more willing to give Bender a chance than Chriss?

[ImNotMcDiSwear]

Why are fans so much more willing to give Bender a chance than Chriss?

Attitude, consistency, and weirdness. Bender at least has been pretty consistent defensively. He hasn't been a jerk, just a wuss. And a 6'9" player who can jump and shoot threes isn't nearly as rare as a 7'1" player who plays like a shooting guard.

[gaspar]

Why are fans so much more willing to give Bender a chance than Chriss?

Attitude, consistency, and weirdness. Bender at least has been pretty consistent defensively. He hasn't been a jerk, just a wuss. And a 6'9" player who can jump and shoot threes isn't nearly as rare as a 7'1" player who plays like a shooting guard.

Bullshyt.

[springcadre]

Why are fans so much more willing to give Bender a chance than Chriss?

Attitude, consistency, and weirdness. Bender at least has been pretty consistent defensively. He hasn't been a jerk, just a wuss. And a 6'9" player who can jump and shoot threes isn't nearly as rare as a 7'1" player who plays like a shooting guard.

Plays like one of the worst shooting guards in the league, he doesn’t even crack 40%FG at 7’1” on super low volume.

[Fo-Real]

It's just amazing to me that so many are ready to give up on Dragan. Dude is 20.

The Magic declined Mario Hezonja's option after a disappointing two seasons. Now, at 23, he's starting to break out. Happened for Kris Dunn at 24. Marc Gasol didn't join the league until he was 24.

20 is simply too young to have substantial expectations. I know the Suns want to move the timeline forward, but you don't sell low on Dragan or Quese. You can sell for something like fair value if it conforms to the plan, but otherwise, you keep working with them.

How many players out there are good enough to justify a package of #15 + Bender + Dudley/Chandler? The list is much longer, IMO, if you keep Bender out of the deal.

IDK. I'm worried we'll do something we will deeply regret.

Not giving up, just tired of it being someone else's goddamn fault. Either he will adjust and get better (I pray he does) or he won't. Either way the onus is on him.

[Ettorefm]

His play got worse and he got prized the starting job. That's not what good franchise do.

he should have to earn minutes. The thing is, if he can't play as a starter because the pressure is too much and can't play as a backup because he doesn't have enough minutes to get his confidence up, he's a scrub and should not even be in the rotation

[darealjuice]

His play got worse and he got prized the starting job. That's not what good franchise do.

he should have to earn minutes. The thing is, if he can't play as a starter because the pressure is too much and can't play as a backup because he doesn't have enough minutes to get his confidence up, he's a scrub and should not even be in the rotation

Yeah, if only we were playing Jared Dudley 30 minutes a game and letting Chriss and Bender ride the bench. That's what this team needs. Who else should play but the people needing to develop on a bad team lol?

[JMac1]

Gotta show improvement next year.

[thamadkant]

Why are fans so much more willing to give Bender a chance than Chriss?

Attitude, consistency, and weirdness. Bender at least has been pretty consistent defensively. He hasn't been a jerk, just a wuss. And a 6'9" player who can jump and shoot threes isn't nearly as rare as a 7'1" player who plays like a shooting guard.

Bender does NOT play like a 7'1 shooting Guard... Durant plays like a 7 foot shooting guard... he SHOOTS and shoots very well.

Bender is CRAP until proven otherwise, this is based on stats and eye test.

But as you said, he is 20 and maybe... one day, his balls grow out.... but we can know this early next season, if he's still a pussy-a$$ b!tch on the court, then you cut your losses and you move on, sunk loss.

[Preacherpj]

It's just amazing to me that so many are ready to give up on Dragan. Dude is 20.

The Magic declined Mario Hezonja's option after a disappointing two seasons. Now, at 23, he's starting to break out. Happened for Kris Dunn at 24. Marc Gasol didn't join the league until he was 24.

20 is simply too young to have substantial expectations. I know the Suns want to move the timeline forward, but you don't sell low on Dragan or Quese. You can sell for something like fair value if it conforms to the plan, but otherwise, you keep working with them.

How many players out there are good enough to justify a package of #15 + Bender + Dudley/Chandler? The list is much longer, IMO, if you keep Bender out of the deal.

IDK. I'm worried we'll do something we will deeply regret.

Not giving up, just tired of it being someone else's goddamn fault. Either he will adjust and get better (I pray he does) or he won't. Either way the onus is on him.

There's always a fine-line (gray area) between excuses and reasons.

Yes a huge onus is on him to get better, but the organization has also failed him, both of these things are true. The fact that he's 20 and when drafted was a project is an excuse to some, but to others that's just the truth.

There's no denying that being drafted into a poorly run organization, being surrounded by losing, having mediocre (at best) coaching isn't the best eco-system to grow players that need growth.

A great example is Alex Smith the QB for the 49ers/Chiefs/Redskins. Full disclosure, I'm a Niners fan.

Alex was drafted #1 overall, played five years of mostly listless, often times awful football. The 49ers fanbase quickly divided into fans who called Alex a pathetic football player and the biggest bust since Tony Mandrich - and 49ers fans who probably rightly pointed out that Alex was surrounded by a terrible oline, had a different OC every year and had to play for some terrible coaches.

In the end, the divisions got so bad that excuses for Alex Smith were termed 'Alexcuses' and people who still thought he had a chance were called 'Alexsexuals' lololol.

Seriously.
https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Alexcuse

In the end, the 49ers eventually hired a competent coach (Jim Harbaugh) and since that point Alex has been nothing but an above-average to very good NFL QB. So what changed? Did Alex suddenly figure it out that off-season? More likely some players just need a more stable coaching staff to reach their potential.

The point of all of this isn't to excuse Bender of any responsibility in his growth, but it is to acknowledge the Suns haven't done him any favors and that he's a guy who didn't go play at Kentucky or Kansas - he was always going to need more time to develop.

[Preacherpj]

8. Dragan Bender, dipping his toe into doing things

Smart feet and good feel are nice, but to be a productive NBA player, you actually have to, like, do stuff. Bender has spent too much of his brief NBA career not doing stuff. In early March, he became the first player since 2012 to log 36 minutes in a game and attempt one or zero shots and zero free throws.

Bender is 20. He missed almost half his rookie season. Perhaps any expectations are unfair. But at some point, the No. 4 pick in the draft -- even a 20-year-old -- has to try things. Good news: Bender is flashing a friskier handoff game -- complete with delightful play-action-fake keepers:

(Yeah, he missed. Baby steps. At least you realized Bender was on the floor.)

The fully formed version of Bender -- the one that will play for a competitive NBA team in the early 2020s -- will look something like this: a big-man fulcrum who can shoot, drive, and pass, and run the offense for snippets. He's even doing the thing where he fakes a handoff, pitches the ball to another teammate along the 3-point arc, and runs right into a pick for that player:

That is a classic Marc Gasol/Nikola Jokic/Boris Diaw move. Since early February, Bender has set almost 26 ball screens per 100 possessions, up from 18 before then, per Second Spectrum tracking data. That is partly the result of Tyson Chandler's disappearance (has anyone seen Tyson Chandler; is he in a hair salon?) but it is a legitimate version of the "player development" teams trumpet when they mothball veterans and try to lose.

The Phoenix Suns still need to decide what position Bender plays, and what sort of frontcourt partner he requires (the Bender-Marquese Chriss tandem has been a disaster) but these flashes are encouraging.


http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/22959445/zach-lowe-10-things-like-including-celtics-kyrie-irving-nba

[WeekapaugGroove]

Why are fans so much more willing to give Bender a chance than Chriss?

As you can see from some of the responses there are plenty who don't like him.

For me personally I've lowered my expectations for both to now just hoping for a useful role player. With that in mind I'm more optimistic about Benders skill set as a shooter and defender being more useful in that role. I also view one of his biggest weaknesses as strength and of all of both of their problems this is the one I'm most optimistic about improving because it's reasonable to think he gets stronger as he matures and works on his body. Heck even his passiveness isn't as big of an issue as a role player because you wouldn't be expecting a high usage player.

I'm wiling to give them both next year to see if they figure it out. When you draft guys you know are raw projects it's a little silly to get super bent out of shape when they look like exactly that.

[ImNotMcDiSwear]

Why are fans so much more willing to give Bender a chance than Chriss?

As you can see from some of the responses there are plenty who don't like him.

For me personally I've lowered my expectations for both to now just hoping for a useful role player. With that in mind I'm more optimistic about Benders skill set as a shooter and defender being more useful in that role. I also view one of his biggest weaknesses as strength and of all of both of their problems this is the one I'm most optimistic about improving because it's reasonable to think he gets stronger as he matures and works on his body. Heck even his passiveness isn't as big of an issue as a role player because you wouldn't be expecting a high usage player.

I'm wiling to give them both next year to see if they figure it out. When you draft guys you know are raw projects it's a little silly to get super bent out of shape when they look like exactly that.

I actually think both players can be more than mere role players, but it's clear that neither has the mindset to be a star. They've been shown a degree of mental weakness that great simply players do not exhibit. Quese is too emotional, and Dragan is too detached. I could see both being 3rd/4th best players on good teams in time, but they'll never be leaders in a locker room, that much is clear. That alone caps their potential.

[Fo-Real]

It's just amazing to me that so many are ready to give up on Dragan. Dude is 20.

The Magic declined Mario Hezonja's option after a disappointing two seasons. Now, at 23, he's starting to break out. Happened for Kris Dunn at 24. Marc Gasol didn't join the league until he was 24.

20 is simply too young to have substantial expectations. I know the Suns want to move the timeline forward, but you don't sell low on Dragan or Quese. You can sell for something like fair value if it conforms to the plan, but otherwise, you keep working with them.

How many players out there are good enough to justify a package of #15 + Bender + Dudley/Chandler? The list is much longer, IMO, if you keep Bender out of the deal.

IDK. I'm worried we'll do something we will deeply regret.

Not giving up, just tired of it being someone else's goddamn fault. Either he will adjust and get better (I pray he does) or he won't. Either way the onus is on him.

There's always a fine-line (gray area) between excuses and reasons.

Yes a huge onus is on him to get better, but the organization has also failed him, both of these things are true. The fact that he's 20 and when drafted was a project is an excuse to some, but to others that's just the truth.

There's no denying that being drafted into a poorly run organization, being surrounded by losing, having mediocre (at best) coaching isn't the best eco-system to grow players that need growth.

A great example is Alex Smith the QB for the 49ers/Chiefs/Redskins. Full disclosure, I'm a Niners fan.

Alex was drafted #1 overall, played five years of mostly listless, often times awful football. The 49ers fanbase quickly divided into fans who called Alex a pathetic football player and the biggest bust since Tony Mandrich - and 49ers fans who probably rightly pointed out that Alex was surrounded by a terrible oline, had a different OC every year and had to play for some terrible coaches.

In the end, the divisions got so bad that excuses for Alex Smith were termed 'Alexcuses' and people who still thought he had a chance were called 'Alexsexuals' lololol.

Seriously.
https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Alexcuse

In the end, the 49ers eventually hired a competent coach (Jim Harbaugh) and since that point Alex has been nothing but an above-average to very good NFL QB. So what changed? Did Alex suddenly figure it out that off-season? More likely some players just need a more stable coaching staff to reach their potential.

The point of all of this isn't to excuse Bender of any responsibility in his growth, but it is to acknowledge the Suns haven't done him any favors and that he's a guy who didn't go play at Kentucky or Kansas - he was always going to need more time to develop.

That's where we differ in opinion, I do not think the orginazation has failed him (not saying you are wrong, just i dont agree). Talent wins out, if he was talented enough he would shine. He has played enough basketball to have overcome anything if he had the pure talent, now he has to actually WORK and get better, ALL ON HIM.

[WeekapaugGroove]

Why are fans so much more willing to give Bender a chance than Chriss?

As you can see from some of the responses there are plenty who don't like him.

For me personally I've lowered my expectations for both to now just hoping for a useful role player. With that in mind I'm more optimistic about Benders skill set as a shooter and defender being more useful in that role. I also view one of his biggest weaknesses as strength and of all of both of their problems this is the one I'm most optimistic about improving because it's reasonable to think he gets stronger as he matures and works on his body. Heck even his passiveness isn't as big of an issue as a role player because you wouldn't be expecting a high usage player.

I'm wiling to give them both next year to see if they figure it out. When you draft guys you know are raw projects it's a little silly to get super bent out of shape when they look like exactly that.

I actually think both players can be more than mere role players, but it's clear that neither has the mindset to be a star. They've been shown a degree of mental weakness that great simply players do not exhibit. Quese is too emotional, and Dragan is too detached. I could see both being 3rd/4th best players on good teams in time, but they'll never be leaders in a locker room, that much is clear. That alone caps their potential.

Sure they could be that; really it's hard to predict what either guy will become at this age. Now I'll say if I had to bet on one of them being the 3/4 best player on a good team my money would be on Chriss. His physical ability gives him a higher ceiling but all his other issues gives him a much lower floor than Bender.

[Preacherpj]

Not giving up, just tired of it being someone else's goddamn fault. Either he will adjust and get better (I pray he does) or he won't. Either way the onus is on him.

There's always a fine-line (gray area) between excuses and reasons.

Yes a huge onus is on him to get better, but the organization has also failed him, both of these things are true. The fact that he's 20 and when drafted was a project is an excuse to some, but to others that's just the truth.

There's no denying that being drafted into a poorly run organization, being surrounded by losing, having mediocre (at best) coaching isn't the best eco-system to grow players that need growth.

A great example is Alex Smith the QB for the 49ers/Chiefs/Redskins. Full disclosure, I'm a Niners fan.

Alex was drafted #1 overall, played five years of mostly listless, often times awful football. The 49ers fanbase quickly divided into fans who called Alex a pathetic football player and the biggest bust since Tony Mandrich - and 49ers fans who probably rightly pointed out that Alex was surrounded by a terrible oline, had a different OC every year and had to play for some terrible coaches.

In the end, the divisions got so bad that excuses for Alex Smith were termed 'Alexcuses' and people who still thought he had a chance were called 'Alexsexuals' lololol.

Seriously.
https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Alexcuse

In the end, the 49ers eventually hired a competent coach (Jim Harbaugh) and since that point Alex has been nothing but an above-average to very good NFL QB. So what changed? Did Alex suddenly figure it out that off-season? More likely some players just need a more stable coaching staff to reach their potential.

The point of all of this isn't to excuse Bender of any responsibility in his growth, but it is to acknowledge the Suns haven't done him any favors and that he's a guy who didn't go play at Kentucky or Kansas - he was always going to need more time to develop.

That's where we differ in opinion, I do not think the orginazation has failed him (not saying you are wrong, just i dont agree). Talent wins out, if he was talented enough he would shine. He has played enough basketball to have overcome anything if he had the pure talent, now he has to actually WORK and get better, ALL ON HIM.

When you pick a high-upside but raw 18 year old big guy, and you put him in a losing culture, with over the hill vets and a laughable coaching/development staff; I don't see how him not developing is 'ALL ON HIM'.

Kids learn more effectively in better schools, employees work more efficiently in better organizations - why would the NBA and player development be any different?

I think like most things in life, the truth is somewhere in the middle, certainly he has a responsibility there as well, but lets say he had spent the last two years with the Spurs, do you think he would be any better or would he be just he same? I know what I think.

I also think its VERY FAIR to keep reminding ourselves that he missed most of his first year, in many respects this is really his first season.

[Fo-Real]

There's always a fine-line (gray area) between excuses and reasons.

Yes a huge onus is on him to get better, but the organization has also failed him, both of these things are true. The fact that he's 20 and when drafted was a project is an excuse to some, but to others that's just the truth.

There's no denying that being drafted into a poorly run organization, being surrounded by losing, having mediocre (at best) coaching isn't the best eco-system to grow players that need growth.

A great example is Alex Smith the QB for the 49ers/Chiefs/Redskins. Full disclosure, I'm a Niners fan.

Alex was drafted #1 overall, played five years of mostly listless, often times awful football. The 49ers fanbase quickly divided into fans who called Alex a pathetic football player and the biggest bust since Tony Mandrich - and 49ers fans who probably rightly pointed out that Alex was surrounded by a terrible oline, had a different OC every year and had to play for some terrible coaches.

In the end, the divisions got so bad that excuses for Alex Smith were termed 'Alexcuses' and people who still thought he had a chance were called 'Alexsexuals' lololol.

Seriously.
https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Alexcuse

In the end, the 49ers eventually hired a competent coach (Jim Harbaugh) and since that point Alex has been nothing but an above-average to very good NFL QB. So what changed? Did Alex suddenly figure it out that off-season? More likely some players just need a more stable coaching staff to reach their potential.

The point of all of this isn't to excuse Bender of any responsibility in his growth, but it is to acknowledge the Suns haven't done him any favors and that he's a guy who didn't go play at Kentucky or Kansas - he was always going to need more time to develop.

That's where we differ in opinion, I do not think the orginazation has failed him (not saying you are wrong, just i dont agree). Talent wins out, if he was talented enough he would shine. He has played enough basketball to have overcome anything if he had the pure talent, now he has to actually WORK and get better, ALL ON HIM.

When you pick a high-upside but raw 18 year old big guy, and you put him in a losing culture, with over the hill vets and a laughable coaching/development staff; I don't see how him not developing is 'ALL ON HIM'.

Kids learn more effectively in better schools, employees work more efficiently in better organizations - why would the NBA and player development be any different?

I think like most things in life, the truth is somewhere in the middle, certainly he has a responsibility there as well, but lets say he had spent the last two years with the Spurs, do you think he would be any better or would he be just he same? I know what I think.

I also think its VERY FAIR to keep reminding ourselves that he missed most of his first year, in many respects this is really his first season.

Porzingis, Giannis, Markkanin, all talented young and drafted by teams that were **** shows, and still they shine. Not saying we should give up on him, just that if he blames others for his terrible progress as much as others on this board do, he will never get better because its not his fault.