Offseason Thread 6: The Not So Mexican Stand-off Continues

[ImNotMcDiSwear]

Pek would not help us against the Grizzlies of the league. He is a worse interior defender than our much maligned Gortat, he rebounds at a lesser rate than Plumlee. He gets hurt more often than Bledsoe and he does not even average half a block per game.

The only Grizzlies in the league is the Grizzlies. And the Bulls.

[Blackification]

I don't feel that letting Bledsoe sign the QO and play for his contract is as terrible as people try and make it seem.

Last year everyone improved, this year we will see who keeps improving, who takes a step back, and who no longer has a role on the team. Bledsoe is really the best option to have to see if this team will work.

Why trade Bledsoe for someone like Monroe, or Pekovic or young without giving the guys we already have a chance? What if we trade for Pekovic on that long term deal and Plumlee or Len end up developing into the better center? Why trade Bledsoe for a player on a long term deal if they might not be better than Plumlee, Len, or markieff?

We need to give Markieff a chance to prove himself, we need to give Len and Plumlee a chance to prove themselves. The sf and pf are our most needed areas of improvement but what if Warren lives up to the hype and we don't need to trade Bledsoe to get that upgrade? Let bledsoe take his QO if he proves himself worth it give him his money, winning, a fun team to play on, and the eventual paycheck will heal whatever wounds this off season caused.

I don't mind McD taking his time to evaluate what assets will turn into long term contributors. The best part is that we have the money to keep whoever we feel is worth it and can trade whoever we feel is not. Either way we need a larger sample size before we can make those decisions. An extra year with bledsoe to figure it out may not be so bad

[Kerrsed]

Any of our insiders care to drop a nugget or two of insight?

[Frank Lee]

I'd take Pek all day long.

Damn the stats.... you bean counters tend to over analyze. His demeanor alone would bring an edge to this team. Plus the guy is a battleship. We sorely need some size, and they don't come any bigger. A front line of KeifMO, Pek, and MotherTucker would take no GD sh*t from anyone.The Bruise Brothers revisited. Add Plumlee and Len on the second unit, with the bunch of chuckers we have accumulated and we are off to the races.

Its the anti-Shaq argument revisited.

[Zelaznyrules]

I'd take Pek all day long.

Damn the stats.... you bean counters tend to over analyze. His demeanor alone would bring an edge to this team. Plus the guy is a battleship. We sorely need some size, and they don't come any bigger. A front line of KeifMO, Pek, and MotherTucker would take no GD sh*t from anyone.The Bruise Brothers revisited. Add Plumlee and Len on the second unit, with the bunch of chuckers we have accumulated and we are off to the races.

Its the anti-Shaq argument revisited.

Okay, great, we'd look big and tough while losing 50 games a year. You can't count on the guy, bean count that. He's been there 4 years along with Love and now Rubio and they've yet to sniff the playoffs.

[i505]

His starting max next year from another team (IF he earns one and IF he takes the QO) will be roughly 15 mil, and the duration will be 4 years with 4.5% raises.

QO - 3,700,000
1 - 15,000,000 (max)
2 - 15,675,000 (4.5% raise)
3 - 16,380,375 (4.5% raise)
4 - 17,117,491 (4.5% raise)

Total 5 year salary - 67,872,866

Who here would be down with us offering him a 5 year, ~68 million contract at the deadline? Front loaded as much as possible.

Something close to:

1 - 14,700,000
2 - 14,900,000
3 - 13,782,500 (minus 7.5%)
4 - 12,748,813 (minus 7.5%)
5 - 11,792,653 (minus 7.5%)

Total 5 year salary - 67,923,966 (average of ~13.6 mil per)

I have seen posts comparing his "other team" 3 year max (+ QO year) to our current offer of 4/48 in order to demonstrate that he would be taking on a lot of risk for not much reward, but hadn't ever seen the numbers broken down like this before.

I am pretty torn on whether or not I would offer him this, but I think I am leaning towards it actually being a pretty good contract with how much the cap is supposedly going up (IF he stays healthy of course). Also, since it is on average only 1.6 mil more per year than we are currently offering anyway, and since some posters seem ok going up to the 4/52 range, it doesn't sound all that bad to me.

It also removes ALL financial incentive for him to take the QO and bolt after this year, so if we offered this and he still takes the QO then we would know for SURE that he just flat out doesn't want to be here.

Any thoughts?

[NotTraxxe]

Nothing to see here. Minnie trying to game us. We won't bite. QO or take our deal. They cannot force anything but they are trying to start up talks for their shite. We don't want it.

Bledsoe is a Sun. Likely to be traded at some point as a Sun asset next year. Or if he gets on board and gets over the butthurt he can stay a sun. But we won't trade him for crap.

[Fo-Real]

I am serious in that this is what the Wolves have proposed. But wait theres is more, the Wolves are graciously offering to change the pick protection to a certian degree.

http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=nspus8c

Of course the Wolves would rather spend the money which they are commited to spend anyway on Bledsoe as opposed to Martin, Barea and Brewer. So now Bledsoe can say see I am worth the max just like my agent and Lebron said.

Not surprising........... G.A.R.B.A.G.E!!!!!!

[Fo-Real]

Martin.... Brewer.... and jj..... let me preface this entire night by saying.....I have been drinking..... .... The Suns politely decline....... HAÀAAAAA.... KERRSED.... BET YOU THOUGHT A PROFANITY LACED TIRADE WAS COMING?!?! HI..... IM TEN SECOND TOM!!!!!!

[Fo-Real]

Get Bledso's ass out of here man!!!!!

[Christine-In-AZ]

Nothing to see here. Minnie trying to game us. We won't bite.

JDLAW already figured this charade out shortly after it was hoisted with lame hopes attached...no sauces needed. And it's Termini trying to "game us" not Minnie

Bledsoe is a Sun. Likely to be traded at some point as a Sun asset next year.

On the QO? With no Bird rights being transfered? Bledsoe must approve trade? Good luck on any good return for the Suns with those limitations. A QO'd Bledsoe stays all the way to FA next summer...that's my bet.

But we won't trade him for crap.

Whew! (wipe of the brow) Glad to get that confirmed.

[carey]

His agent can then tell teams to look at his stats per minute to try and get the best deal possible. Moreover, if we keep him on the team the whole year, we will be the only team with his bird rights, which gives his agent a chance to do a sign and trade if a team really wants him, but can't afford to offer a max deal.

No. We've been over this so many times. UFA & no Bird rights if he plays under QO. That's why no one wants that as an outcome. It means it's almost a certainty he walks without compensation.

If he plays under the QO and is not traded, the Suns will retain his Bird rights. If he is traded while playing on the QO, there are none.

Ok, I might be reading the CBA wrong. My understanding is that Bird Rights are accumulated after 3 seasons spent with the same team or if they have changed teams it must be without becoming a free agent or clearing waivers. Once Bird rights are established, they don't go away unless the player is renounced or signs with another NBA team. This is where it gets tricky for me. A contract signed under the Early Bird Exception (2 years w/ same team instead of 3) must be at least two years in length. (Thus a player can not sign a one- year contract under the Early Bird Exception while waiting for the Larry Bird Exception to kick in the following year.) The team would have to renounce Bird Rights to sign that player to a one year deal.

I'm assuming the minimum contract length does not apply if a player has full Bird Rights? I know UFA's can be sign and traded. If Bledsoe plays under the QO we can still S&T him if we make the salaries match, but I'm not sure if we will be able to go over the cap to do it. I don't think it matters really. Unless we make a major move during the season and acquire more salary, even with Goran, the Morris twins, and Green's cap hold we could fit Eric's max under the cap and send him out somewhere making Bird Rights irrelevant. I'd have to double check though.

[carey]

Any thoughts?

I'd probably do it, but I think it's 4/63, 5/80 or bust.

[Qwigglez]

If Minny really wants Bledsoe, then they gotta give up the goods (Wiggins).

[NBA Fiend]

Here we go along with the Pelicans pick from Houston. Minnesota pick no protection, thats right unprotected.

http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=o6w7xj2.

There is a deal here to be made. If all teams can come to a reasonable compromise. The Suns would want Lavine and could do a Green/Lavine swap. But The Wolves are looking to pair Lavine and Bledsoe. Maybe Minny would do Dieng for Plumlee. The Suns would get a more defensive minded center and Bledsoe/Plumlee have good chemistry already. And the protection on the pick could be adjusted accordingly.

Now back to my initial trade. Suns get unprotected Minny pick, Pelicans pick and Capela who looks to be a good athletic defensive prospect. Looking back on the Harden trade the Thunder wound up with Lamb and Hunter. If the Suns aren't going to keep Bledsoe beyond this year two picks and Caplea doesn't seem to be all that bad.

[MathiasPW]

Just caught up on posts. Agree with JD and Chris that it is all initiated by Paul's camp. They could probably get any number of teams to agree to pay him the max IF they could dump crap on the Suns.

"Brooklyn willing to pay Bledsoe max in S&T for Deron Williams (or whoever else)"

Of course teams would rather overpay a good player than be stuck in bad contracts.

Unfortunately, these tactics won't work, and that is why cap flexibility is very important these days.

I'd do the deal I outlined, but only if we felt EB was set to take QO, and I don't think he is. He will cave and end up taking 4/54 or something like that.

Another reason for the leak might be the Wolves trying to push Chicago to make a move on Martin, as they've been interested in him. The negotiation can't be only between Suns and Wolves, so making it "public" gives other teams a chance to try to offer something to make it happen.

[Qwigglez]

^No. Suns made a desperate attempt to trade Bledsoe for Wiggins before the Cavs sent em to Minny. Before that, we were trying to get Love. I don't think all of a sudden the Suns are now in the mood to trade Bledsoe for Lavine, Capela and crap draft picks. McD is not gonna back down now and start making trades just for the sake of making trades.

[bwgood77]

His starting max next year from another team (IF he earns one and IF he takes the QO) will be roughly 15 mil, and the duration will be 4 years with 4.5% raises.

QO - 3,700,000
1 - 15,000,000 (max)
2 - 15,675,000 (4.5% raise)
3 - 16,380,375 (4.5% raise)
4 - 17,117,491 (4.5% raise)

Total 5 year salary - 67,872,866

Who here would be down with us offering him a 5 year, ~68 million contract at the deadline? Front loaded as much as possible.

Something close to:

1 - 14,700,000
2 - 14,900,000
3 - 13,782,500 (minus 7.5%)
4 - 12,748,813 (minus 7.5%)
5 - 11,792,653 (minus 7.5%)

Total 5 year salary - 67,923,966 (average of ~13.6 mil per)

I have seen posts comparing his "other team" 3 year max (+ QO year) to our current offer of 4/48 in order to demonstrate that he would be taking on a lot of risk for not much reward, but hadn't ever seen the numbers broken down like this before.

I am pretty torn on whether or not I would offer him this, but I think I am leaning towards it actually being a pretty good contract with how much the cap is supposedly going up (IF he stays healthy of course). Also, since it is on average only 1.6 mil more per year than we are currently offering anyway, and since some posters seem ok going up to the 4/52 range, it doesn't sound all that bad to me.

It also removes ALL financial incentive for him to take the QO and bolt after this year, so if we offered this and he still takes the QO then we would know for SURE that he just flat out doesn't want to be here.

Any thoughts?

Yeah, I'd do that. That assumes we wouldn't have health concerns but I doubt we'd be willing to invest 48 million if we did. I figured we might end up at 4/56, so that is just 11 million more for an extra year, when the cap should be MUCH higher.

[Wormwood74]

I would do Wiggins + the pu-pu platter. This makes sense if the other contracts are close to expiring and don't burden us down the line. With a talent like Wiggins, sure, roll the dice. We have enough bodies to give him time to develop.

Same with Bledsoe for Pekovic + modified pick protection + protected pick two years down the road. I would do this just because it gives us a legit inside defender / scorer, and allows us to continue just drafting multiple people every year. Don't laugh too hard: the stats say he was a better defender than any of the other centers we have under contract. He was effectively the second best player on the Wolves, he's 28, and this is the prime of his career, and would give a little balance to the quality of our players (i.e. not completely back court oriented)

Now, the proposed pile of crap for Bledsoe, no, don't touch it. Makes us worse, makes our salary situation worse, and doesn't build for the future.

I know the FO isn't thinking this way probably...

[dgwdum]

If Minny really wants Bledsoe, then they gotta give up the goods (Wiggins).

If you think bledsoe is good enough to net the suns wiggins then you should have no problem giving bledsoe a max deal then right?

the truth is Bledsoe isn't worth the max let alone Wiggins. The suns 4/48 deal is fair but bledsoe just doesn't want to play in Phoenix imo. Let him rot on the bench.