Dragan Bender News, Discussion and Highlights

[Preacherpj]

That's where we differ in opinion, I do not think the orginazation has failed him (not saying you are wrong, just i dont agree). Talent wins out, if he was talented enough he would shine. He has played enough basketball to have overcome anything if he had the pure talent, now he has to actually WORK and get better, ALL ON HIM.

When you pick a high-upside but raw 18 year old big guy, and you put him in a losing culture, with over the hill vets and a laughable coaching/development staff; I don't see how him not developing is 'ALL ON HIM'.

Kids learn more effectively in better schools, employees work more efficiently in better organizations - why would the NBA and player development be any different?

I think like most things in life, the truth is somewhere in the middle, certainly he has a responsibility there as well, but lets say he had spent the last two years with the Spurs, do you think he would be any better or would he be just he same? I know what I think.

I also think its VERY FAIR to keep reminding ourselves that he missed most of his first year, in many respects this is really his first season.

Porzingis, Giannis, Markkanin, all talented young and drafted by teams that were **** shows, and still they shine. Not saying we should give up on him, just that if he blames others for his terrible progress as much as others on this board do, he will never get better because its not his fault.

Who on this board says Bender is blameless?? I don't think Bender is blameless in this at all; I think its much more nuanced than that. But to suggest that the organization bares no responsibility in developing players and surrounding them with talented coaches and good veterans seems a little silly to me. It takes both.

Certainly you can find examples of players that thrive despite bad cultures; but I think we can also find tons of examples of players who have developed beyond their 'ceilings' in great cultures.

The Alex Smith example I cited earlier feels so similar to me; partially because I lived it as a Niners fan -- but there was a guy who was downright bad for five years and absorbed much of the blame himself; despite a horrendously run organization.

Now Alex Smith is a guy with a $94 million dollar contract? What changed?

They got an actual coach is what changed.

[Midnight_Suns]

Why are fans so much more willing to give Bender a chance than Chriss?

Attitude, consistency, and weirdness. Bender at least has been pretty consistent defensively. He hasn't been a jerk, just a wuss. And a 6'9" player who can jump and shoot threes isn't nearly as rare as a 7'1" player who plays like a shooting guard.

In what way does Bender play like a shooting guard? Just because a 7 footer can dribble and run simultaneously does not mean they are a ball handler. Bender gets the ball stripped 50% of the time when he tries dribbling. He has been shooting, what, 30% from 3 this year? There is absolutely nothing about him that says SG.

I couldn't give a **** that he is 20. Dude has absolutely no fire or passion for the game, which is supported by those reports that he had to be drug to extra practice sessions. I'm fully okay with Peters taking his minutes for the remainder of the season.

[Preacherpj]

Why are fans so much more willing to give Bender a chance than Chriss?

Attitude, consistency, and weirdness. Bender at least has been pretty consistent defensively. He hasn't been a jerk, just a wuss. And a 6'9" player who can jump and shoot threes isn't nearly as rare as a 7'1" player who plays like a shooting guard.

In what way does Bender play like a shooting guard? Just because a 7 footer can dribble and run simultaneously does not mean they are a ball handler. Bender gets the ball stripped 50% of the time when he tries dribbling. He has been shooting, what, 30% from 3 this year? There is absolutely nothing about him that says SG.

I couldn't give a **** that he is 20. Dude has absolutely no fire or passion for the game, which is supported by those reports that he had to be drug to extra practice sessions. I'm fully okay with Peters taking his minutes for the remainder of the season.

Why? Like I totally get wanting off the Bender bandwagon -- I'm not there -- but I get it.

But in a season like this, why in the world would you want Peters to take his mins? Peters is a 6-9ish, less athletic version of Bender, after a career at Valpo; we pretty much know who he is.

Bender, whether you think he will hit it or not; has MUCH MORE upside, it would be ridiculous to not give him mins at the end of a season like we are having. Who cares if he stinks right now? More data points are always good and he needs the reps if he has any shot of becoming the type of player people dreamed on a couple years ago.

There was a poster here who had a great sig after Bender/Chriss were drafted, I don't remember who it was -- but it was something like "Please remember how young Bender and Chriss are, don't turn on them right away". I thought it was soo true because most fans don't have the patience to let projects struggle. Everyone wants instant production and if its not there, they want the team to cut bait.

Have patience. Lets at least wait until he's 21 with a decent coach (hopefully) before asking Alec Peters to take his mins.

[Fo-Real]

When you pick a high-upside but raw 18 year old big guy, and you put him in a losing culture, with over the hill vets and a laughable coaching/development staff; I don't see how him not developing is 'ALL ON HIM'.

Kids learn more effectively in better schools, employees work more efficiently in better organizations - why would the NBA and player development be any different?

I think like most things in life, the truth is somewhere in the middle, certainly he has a responsibility there as well, but lets say he had spent the last two years with the Spurs, do you think he would be any better or would he be just he same? I know what I think.

I also think its VERY FAIR to keep reminding ourselves that he missed most of his first year, in many respects this is really his first season.

Porzingis, Giannis, Markkanin, all talented young and drafted by teams that were **** shows, and still they shine. Not saying we should give up on him, just that if he blames others for his terrible progress as much as others on this board do, he will never get better because its not his fault.

Who on this board says Bender is blameless?? I don't think Bender is blameless in this at all; I think its much more nuanced than that. But to suggest that the organization bares no responsibility in developing players and surrounding them with talented coaches and good veterans seems a little silly to me. It takes both.

Certainly you can find examples of players that thrive despite bad cultures; but I think we can also find tons of examples of players who have developed beyond their 'ceilings' in great cultures.

The Alex Smith example I cited earlier feels so similar to me; partially because I lived it as a Niners fan -- but there was a guy who was downright bad for five years and absorbed much of the blame himself; despite a horrendously run organization.

Now Alex Smith is a guy with a $94 million dollar contract? What changed?

They got an actual coach is what changed.

Not arguing with you on what he may become one day, just that people here (witch now included you) have too many excuses as to why he has not developed. He sucks right now, just like Chriss but no one gives chriss a chance at getting better. Each suck out loud at many diffrent points in the season but Bender is the only one who the orginazation is balmed for, WHAT ABOUT CHRISS AND LEN THEN?!?! What about Tyler Ulis, I havnt seen any of the others so staunchly defended by you or anyone, Ulis had an injury and surgery this summer, but he just stinks and thats it (until lately since he has played well). Bender has apologist and the others just suck it seems around here. You are arguing with your **** self, I hope the kid gets better, but he sucks and its his fault because of the player he is right now, so does Chriss (same reason) and Len (same reason)!! We should keep Bender and Chriss and hopefully they turn the corner, love the potential of both.

[ImNotMcDiSwear]

Attitude, consistency, and weirdness. Bender at least has been pretty consistent defensively. He hasn't been a jerk, just a wuss. And a 6'9" player who can jump and shoot threes isn't nearly as rare as a 7'1" player who plays like a shooting guard.

In what way does Bender play like a shooting guard? Just because a 7 footer can dribble and run simultaneously does not mean they are a ball handler. Bender gets the ball stripped 50% of the time when he tries dribbling. He has been shooting, what, 30% from 3 this year? There is absolutely nothing about him that says SG.

I couldn't give a **** that he is 20. Dude has absolutely no fire or passion for the game, which is supported by those reports that he had to be drug to extra practice sessions. I'm fully okay with Peters taking his minutes for the remainder of the season.

Why? Like I totally get wanting off the Bender bandwagon -- I'm not there -- but I get it.

But in a season like this, why in the world would you want Peters to take his mins? Peters is a 6-9ish, less athletic version of Bender, after a career at Valpo; we pretty much know who he is.

Bender, whether you think he will hit it or not; has MUCH MORE upside, it would be ridiculous to not give him mins at the end of a season like we are having. Who cares if he stinks right now? More data points are always good and he needs the reps if he has any shot of becoming the type of player people dreamed on a couple years ago.

There was a poster here who had a great sig after Bender/Chriss were drafted, I don't remember who it was -- but it was something like "Please remember how young Bender and Chriss are, don't turn on them right away". I thought it was soo true because most fans don't have the patience to let projects struggle. Everyone wants instant production and if its not there, they want the team to cut bait.

Have patience. Lets at least wait until he's 21 with a decent coach (hopefully) before asking Alec Peters to take his mins.

Mr. Miyagi. I keep waiting for him to pop in on these discussions to remind us of his sage advice.

[Preacherpj]

Porzingis, Giannis, Markkanin, all talented young and drafted by teams that were **** shows, and still they shine. Not saying we should give up on him, just that if he blames others for his terrible progress as much as others on this board do, he will never get better because its not his fault.

Who on this board says Bender is blameless?? I don't think Bender is blameless in this at all; I think its much more nuanced than that. But to suggest that the organization bares no responsibility in developing players and surrounding them with talented coaches and good veterans seems a little silly to me. It takes both.

Certainly you can find examples of players that thrive despite bad cultures; but I think we can also find tons of examples of players who have developed beyond their 'ceilings' in great cultures.

The Alex Smith example I cited earlier feels so similar to me; partially because I lived it as a Niners fan -- but there was a guy who was downright bad for five years and absorbed much of the blame himself; despite a horrendously run organization.

Now Alex Smith is a guy with a $94 million dollar contract? What changed?

They got an actual coach is what changed.

Not arguing with you on what he may become one day, just that people here (witch now included you) have too many excuses as to why he has not developed. He sucks right now, just like Chriss but no one gives chriss a chance at getting better. Each suck out loud at many diffrent points in the season but Bender is the only one who the orginazation is balmed for, WHAT ABOUT CHRISS AND LEN THEN?!?! What about Tyler Ulis, I havnt seen any of the others so staunchly defended by you or anyone, Ulis had an injury and surgery this summer, but he just stinks and thats it (until lately since he has played well). Bender has apologist and the others just suck it seems around here. You are arguing with your **** self, I hope the kid gets better, but he sucks and its his fault because of the player he is right now, so does Chriss (same reason) and Len (same reason)!! We should keep Bender and Chriss and hopefully they turn the corner, love the potential of both.

So being the youngest player in his class, being hurt most of his first year, having bad coaching --- those are excuses?

See to me; those are reasons why he's struggled and there are other reasons including Bender's demeanor and lack of killer instinct. You are basically absolving Phoenix of ANY responsibility in player development, ignoring the fact that players get better as they get older and completely discounting the fact that injuries obviously hamper development. All I'm saying is its not black and white. Not all players develop on the same timeline and there are legit reasons why Phoenix hasn't done Bender any favors. I'm not absolving Bender, just adding CONTEXT.

Again, I'm not making excuses; these are reasons why players don't develop and some of these reasons are completely on Bender to fix. Some aren't. Phoenix as an organization needs to do better for its young players.

[Preacherpj]

To put it another way; you are essentially saying an organization plays zero role in player development. Either the guy gets it or doesn't on his own.

Kawhi Leonard would be the same player today if he had spent his entire career with Phoenix?

We agree; if this is the finished version of Bender, that's no good.

[ImNotMcDiSwear]

To put it another way; you are essentially saying an organization plays zero role in player development. Either the guy gets it or doesn't on his own.

Kawhi Leonard would be the same player today if he had spent his entire career with Phoenix?

We agree; if this is the finished version of Bender, that's no good.

It's not necessary to thinking that our coaching is awful if you think his youth alone is nearly sufficient to explain his lack of production.

I think we are a long, long way from seeing Dragan's final form.

[springcadre]

Why are fans so much more willing to give Bender a chance than Chriss?

As you can see from some of the responses there are plenty who don't like him.

For me personally I've lowered my expectations for both to now just hoping for a useful role player. With that in mind I'm more optimistic about Benders skill set as a shooter and defender being more useful in that role. I also view one of his biggest weaknesses as strength and of all of both of their problems this is the one I'm most optimistic about improving because it's reasonable to think he gets stronger as he matures and works on his body. Heck even his passiveness isn't as big of an issue as a role player because you wouldn't be expecting a high usage player.

I'm wiling to give them both next year to see if they figure it out. When you draft guys you know are raw projects it's a little silly to get super bent out of shape when they look like exactly that.

To me it just seems fans have, generally, all but given up on Chriss but think Bender has this unicorn potential despite Chriss being the better player today and most every Euro PF that was meant to be Dirk 2.0 busting. I mean it could be Bender has a higher ceiling, I’m just not sure how anyone has determined that given his lack of skill and motor.

[thamadkant]

Thing with Bender is his attitude to the game is bad.


Look at Jackson... He is so competitive that he improved a lot in such a short time. Good players are players that have that passion for the game.


Chriss is immature and lacking smarts on the court... Maybe one day he'll mature up. But at re least he is putting effort... Dumb in many occasions but you can't say he's not trying.



Bender... This guy has the size and skill set... But doesn't try enough... So passive and if that's his nature... He will not last past his rookie contract. He will be a bench player in Europe...

He needs to have that drive on the court... Competitve nature.

[STEV13]

I've always been on the Bender hype train, but man, he just plain sucks so bad right now in both the eye-test and maybe advanced stats. Remember when he was the king of plus-minus of our team in the first few games cause he was so active defensively and he had a pretty good percentage from 3, that feels such a long time ago now.

Sidery tweeted earlier how Bender had to literally check all around before going up for an uncontested dunk and that just speaks volumes on how low his confidence is right now. Something has to change though, maybe he has to come from the bench cause he's being out played by every other starting 4s and 5s? I don't know. From all accounts though, he's still a very good kid, and I'm still hopeful he will pan out. I just hate how he doesn't fight for boards given all that damn length.

[sunsbg]

It's not that hard to see that the problem with Bender is both team and his own play. I have stated it already and of course many will not agree, but bad teams in the NBA are mostly playing a street-ball. Just look at the Rocket's game highlights on YouTube and show me a single play with good ball movement, in which Dragan supposedly should excel. This doesn't excuse him for not playing more aggressively and tuning into this game style to show his individual skills.

[Frank Lee]

In what way does Bender play like a shooting guard? Just because a 7 footer can dribble and run simultaneously does not mean they are a ball handler. Bender gets the ball stripped 50% of the time when he tries dribbling. He has been shooting, what, 30% from 3 this year? There is absolutely nothing about him that says SG.

I couldn't give a **** that he is 20. Dude has absolutely no fire or passion for the game, which is supported by those reports that he had to be drug to extra practice sessions. I'm fully okay with Peters taking his minutes for the remainder of the season.

Why? Like I totally get wanting off the Bender bandwagon -- I'm not there -- but I get it.

But in a season like this, why in the world would you want Peters to take his mins? Peters is a 6-9ish, less athletic version of Bender, after a career at Valpo; we pretty much know who he is.

Bender, whether you think he will hit it or not; has MUCH MORE upside, it would be ridiculous to not give him mins at the end of a season like we are having. Who cares if he stinks right now? More data points are always good and he needs the reps if he has any shot of becoming the type of player people dreamed on a couple years ago.

There was a poster here who had a great sig after Bender/Chriss were drafted, I don't remember who it was -- but it was something like "Please remember how young Bender and Chriss are, don't turn on them right away". I thought it was soo true because most fans don't have the patience to let projects struggle. Everyone wants instant production and if its not there, they want the team to cut bait.

Have patience. Lets at least wait until he's 21 with a decent coach (hopefully) before asking Alec Peters to take his mins.

Mr. Miyagi. I keep waiting for him to pop in on these discussions to remind us of his sage advice.

be sure you check the "old sage's" Brandon Knight advice.... sometimes even his spice rack is a bit off....

The bigger concern to me is will these teenage sensations develop enough within the time frame we have them contractually controlled. It would be ideal to be able to extend them based upon their performance, rather than their potential. We very well could end up similar to the Len situation, who now could walk for nothing.

[kennydorglas]

I was reading about some mental archetypes and I guess I found what Dragan is:

this is a quote from Jon Niednagel's fantastic book "Your key to sports success"

"ISFJ Sports Profile

ISFJs are Introverted left-brained SFs. They enjoy participating in sports, though they are not found frequently in professional circles. In athletics, they exercise great control over their gross motor movements. Their legs are their mainstay, their greatest source of strength. If ISFJs work at it, they can be leapers with excellent vertical jump. For example, the NBA’s Andrew Lang, Dale Davis, and P.J. Brown have been top notch shot blockers.

Defensive Mentality

Basketball is a sport that especially demonstrates the defensive talents of ISFJs. They play defense properly, using their strong, SF legs to keep the person they’re guarding from the basket. Yet they need to work hard at developing lateral quickness. ISFJs are unselfish players, looking for ways to complement their teammates. They feel they can do this best by playing good defense. If ISFJs begin basketball at an early age and with good coaching, they can develop a finely-tuned offensive game.

Type Tips

ISFJs need to be encouraged to be more aggressive in sports, particularly on the offensive end. They need to realize it is okay to make mistakes; blunders are part of the process of sports maturation. Even the greatest athletes have their periods of failure.
ISFJs should become familiar with the mental section of this book. Learning to relax and alleviate fear is crucial to their athletic success.
Like all dominant left-brained persons, ISFJs need to develop their spatial awareness.
If ISFJs can begin athletic activities at an early age, the more likely they are to succeed, not only by developing their motor skills but confidence and assertiveness as well.
Parents and coaches need to remember that ISFJs respond and learn best when they are treated with sensitivity, commended for their efforts, and encouraged to keep trying."

It's weird, because I think i'm from this group too... probably that's why I understand what he does (or doesnt) in the court.
This book is really good.

[sunskerr]

It's weird, because I think i'm from this group too... probably that's why I understand what he does (or doesnt) in the court.
This book is really good.

I don't play ball anymore but I have this mentality as well. I'm just very afraid of making mistakes on offense. It's frustrating because in shoot arounds and in any other scenario, you have the best stroke, best shot and of course great handles. Game time comes and your hands suddenly turn to stone and you can't even make a crossover, and all your shots are rushed.

When I watch Bender play, this is what I see as well. This is probably why Gentry had to constantly encourage Goran Dragic with words like "you're doing great" and "just be aggressive, okayyyy".

[bwgood77]

I was reading about some mental archetypes and I guess I found what Dragan is:

this is a quote from Jon Niednagel's fantastic book "Your key to sports success"

"ISFJ Sports Profile

ISFJs are Introverted left-brained SFs. They enjoy participating in sports, though they are not found frequently in professional circles. In athletics, they exercise great control over their gross motor movements. Their legs are their mainstay, their greatest source of strength. If ISFJs work at it, they can be leapers with excellent vertical jump. For example, the NBA’s Andrew Lang, Dale Davis, and P.J. Brown have been top notch shot blockers.

Defensive Mentality

Basketball is a sport that especially demonstrates the defensive talents of ISFJs. They play defense properly, using their strong, SF legs to keep the person they’re guarding from the basket. Yet they need to work hard at developing lateral quickness. ISFJs are unselfish players, looking for ways to complement their teammates. They feel they can do this best by playing good defense. If ISFJs begin basketball at an early age and with good coaching, they can develop a finely-tuned offensive game.

Type Tips

ISFJs need to be encouraged to be more aggressive in sports, particularly on the offensive end. They need to realize it is okay to make mistakes; blunders are part of the process of sports maturation. Even the greatest athletes have their periods of failure.
ISFJs should become familiar with the mental section of this book. Learning to relax and alleviate fear is crucial to their athletic success.
Like all dominant left-brained persons, ISFJs need to develop their spatial awareness.
If ISFJs can begin athletic activities at an early age, the more likely they are to succeed, not only by developing their motor skills but confidence and assertiveness as well.
Parents and coaches need to remember that ISFJs respond and learn best when they are treated with sensitivity, commended for their efforts, and encouraged to keep trying."

It's weird, because I think i'm from this group too... probably that's why I understand what he does (or doesnt) in the court.
This book is really good.

Wow, that IS Bender.

[Fo-Real]

This is where coaching comes in and is LACKING! Dragon bucked his trend and put in 11 semi aggressive points in the 1st quarter. ALTER THE **** GAMEPLAN AND FEED HIM!!!! You force his teammates confidence in him at tat point, run plays for him and make him shoot. Help him help himself by deciding he is the hot hand and make him the focal point till they take him away or e just starts missing, neither happened he just stopped getting shots. This is the development deficite he has faced. make him feel good about his ofensive game!

[cberry78]

It's weird, because I think i'm from this group too... probably that's why I understand what he does (or doesnt) in the court.
This book is really good.

I don't play ball anymore but I have this mentality as well. I'm just very afraid of making mistakes on offense. It's frustrating because in shoot arounds and in any other scenario, you have the best stroke, best shot and of course great handles. Game time comes and your hands suddenly turn to stone and you can't even make a crossover, and all your shots are rushed.

When I watch Bender play, this is what I see as well. This is probably why Gentry had to constantly encourage Goran Dragic with words like "you're doing great" and "just be aggressive, okayyyy".

For those that want to know what Archetype (Myers-Briggs personality types) they are: https://www.16personalities.com/free-personality-test

And a non-sport centric description of what the types are: https://www.16personalities.com/personality-types

[Ettorefm]

This is where coaching comes in and is LACKING! Dragon bucked his trend and put in 11 semi aggressive points in the 1st quarter. ALTER THE **** GAMEPLAN AND FEED HIM!!!! You force his teammates confidence in him at tat point, run plays for him and make him shoot. Help him help himself by deciding he is the hot hand and make him the focal point till they take him away or e just starts missing, neither happened he just stopped getting shots. This is the development deficite he has faced. make him feel good about his ofensive game!

Help him help himself is the most absurd thing I've read here.

Bend over backwards for a scrub...why?

See Josh Jackson. That's a real prospect. No plays designed for him, yet he has been the best player on the team on many occasions.

[sunsbum]

Bender will be fine. At this point with young, doncic, ayton coming in we don't need Bender to become dirk 2.0 (which most of us knew he wouldn't be anyways) Benders basketball personality is similar to mine as well. He doesn't want to be the big scorer, he doesn't want the spotlight. He wants to do the little things and make the right plays. One thing that's great about confidence in basketball is you can fix it.