Pre Draft Discussion

[8on]

You've devolved into analyzing tipping patterns for the NBA draft picks. it's time for the draft already.

Also to the "Euroleague is weak" idea, Doncic is putting up miles better numbers than anyone who's ever been drafted at a younger age. Comparing his numbers to Porzingis at the same age is night and day and he's on a better team and league.

I can’t compare Doncic to other Euroleague players, but I also can’t compare Euroleague to the NBA.

Don't have to, it's generally better than NCAA though, and you can compare him to other Euroleague players. In which case he's miles better than Porzingis, and I think if Porzingis is an outcome, its a pretty good one.

Doncic and Porzingis are as similar as Porzingis and Bender. They are not, nor have they ever, been comparable.

The same can be said of the NCAA, Euroleague, and NBA. Different 3 pt line, different goaltending rules in Euroleague, different offense, different defense. They’re almost three different sports. Doncic’s success in the Euroleague is by no means a guarantee for NBA stardom. It’s promising, but it’s not a guarantee.

We assumed development from Porzingis, but how much better can Doncic be? He’s been playing high level basketball for a long time. I know prodigies in other areas. They don’t necessarily get better. Maybe Doncic at 14 is Bender at 21. While Bender may never get to where Doncic is now, Doncic may have learned all he can. Sometimes prodigies think they know everything. Doncic may not be that open to criticism.

I have high expectations for him still, but I’m not as high on him as other people are.

[bondom34]

Rumor has it Jordan was a terrible tipper .

[bondom34]

I can’t compare Doncic to other Euroleague players, but I also can’t compare Euroleague to the NBA.

Don't have to, it's generally better than NCAA though, and you can compare him to other Euroleague players. In which case he's miles better than Porzingis, and I think if Porzingis is an outcome, its a pretty good one.

Doncic and Porzingis are as similar as Porzingis and Bender. They are not, nor have they ever, been comparable.

The same can be said of the NCAA, Euroleague, and NBA. Different 3 pt line, different goaltending rules in Euroleague, different offense, different defense. They’re almost three different sports. Doncic’s success in the Euroleague is by no means a guarantee for NBA stardom. It’s promising, but it’s not a guarantee.

We assumed development from Porzingis, but how much better can Doncic be? He’s been playing high level basketball for a long time. I know prodigies in other areas. They don’t necessarily get better. Maybe Doncic at 14 is Bender at 21. While Bender may never get to where Doncic is now, Doncic may have learned all he can. Sometimes prodigies think they know everything. Doncic may not be that open to criticism.

I have high expectations for him still, but I’m not as high on him as other people are.

Not sure what you mean, unless it's just play style. Doncic has been far better than KP ever was at a younger age in a bigger role on a better team. Comparing their Euro stats it's night and day, and Bender wasn't close to either of their levels.

And you're absolutely right, there's not a guarantee Doncic improves, but there's not a guarantee anyone does. Maybe Doncic doesn't. Maybe Ayton doesn't, maybe Young doesn't. It's on the player and staff at that point but I'd trust a kid who's shown great smarts on court to get better.

[8on]

Don't have to, it's generally better than NCAA though, and you can compare him to other Euroleague players. In which case he's miles better than Porzingis, and I think if Porzingis is an outcome, its a pretty good one.

Doncic and Porzingis are as similar as Porzingis and Bender. They are not, nor have they ever, been comparable.

The same can be said of the NCAA, Euroleague, and NBA. Different 3 pt line, different goaltending rules in Euroleague, different offense, different defense. They’re almost three different sports. Doncic’s success in the Euroleague is by no means a guarantee for NBA stardom. It’s promising, but it’s not a guarantee.

We assumed development from Porzingis, but how much better can Doncic be? He’s been playing high level basketball for a long time. I know prodigies in other areas. They don’t necessarily get better. Maybe Doncic at 14 is Bender at 21. While Bender may never get to where Doncic is now, Doncic may have learned all he can. Sometimes prodigies think they know everything. Doncic may not be that open to criticism.

I have high expectations for him still, but I’m not as high on him as other people are.

Not sure what you mean, unless it's just play style. Doncic has been far better than KP ever was at a younger age in a bigger role on a better team. Comparing their Euro stats it's night and day, and Bender wasn't close to either of their levels.

And you're absolutely right, there's not a guarantee Doncic improves, but there's not a guarantee anyone does. Maybe Doncic doesn't. Maybe Ayton doesn't, maybe Young doesn't. It's on the player and staff at that point but I'd trust a kid who's shown great smarts on court to get better.

Doncic and Porzingis have different roles, different bodies, different responsibilities and different levels of experience. They’re not comparable just because they’re from the same continent.

[Archx]

Rumor has it Jordan was a terrible tipper .

That was actually confirmed by Barkley lol

[Waylay13]

Doncic and Porzingis are as similar as Porzingis and Bender. They are not, nor have they ever, been comparable.

The same can be said of the NCAA, Euroleague, and NBA. Different 3 pt line, different goaltending rules in Euroleague, different offense, different defense. They’re almost three different sports. Doncic’s success in the Euroleague is by no means a guarantee for NBA stardom. It’s promising, but it’s not a guarantee.

We assumed development from Porzingis, but how much better can Doncic be? He’s been playing high level basketball for a long time. I know prodigies in other areas. They don’t necessarily get better. Maybe Doncic at 14 is Bender at 21. While Bender may never get to where Doncic is now, Doncic may have learned all he can. Sometimes prodigies think they know everything. Doncic may not be that open to criticism.

I have high expectations for him still, but I’m not as high on him as other people are.

Not sure what you mean, unless it's just play style. Doncic has been far better than KP ever was at a younger age in a bigger role on a better team. Comparing their Euro stats it's night and day, and Bender wasn't close to either of their levels.

And you're absolutely right, there's not a guarantee Doncic improves, but there's not a guarantee anyone does. Maybe Doncic doesn't. Maybe Ayton doesn't, maybe Young doesn't. It's on the player and staff at that point but I'd trust a kid who's shown great smarts on court to get better.

Doncic and Porzingis have different roles, different bodies, different responsibilities and different levels of experience. They’re not comparable just because they’re from the same continent.

Yes for being 7’3” Porzingis maybe one of the worst rebounder in the NBA. Heck Doncic is a better rebounder then he is.

[lilfishi22]

Doncic and Porzingis are as similar as Porzingis and Bender. They are not, nor have they ever, been comparable.

The same can be said of the NCAA, Euroleague, and NBA. Different 3 pt line, different goaltending rules in Euroleague, different offense, different defense. They’re almost three different sports. Doncic’s success in the Euroleague is by no means a guarantee for NBA stardom. It’s promising, but it’s not a guarantee.

We assumed development from Porzingis, but how much better can Doncic be? He’s been playing high level basketball for a long time. I know prodigies in other areas. They don’t necessarily get better. Maybe Doncic at 14 is Bender at 21. While Bender may never get to where Doncic is now, Doncic may have learned all he can. Sometimes prodigies think they know everything. Doncic may not be that open to criticism.

I have high expectations for him still, but I’m not as high on him as other people are.

Not sure what you mean, unless it's just play style. Doncic has been far better than KP ever was at a younger age in a bigger role on a better team. Comparing their Euro stats it's night and day, and Bender wasn't close to either of their levels.

And you're absolutely right, there's not a guarantee Doncic improves, but there's not a guarantee anyone does. Maybe Doncic doesn't. Maybe Ayton doesn't, maybe Young doesn't. It's on the player and staff at that point but I'd trust a kid who's shown great smarts on court to get better.

Doncic and Porzingis have different roles, different bodies, different responsibilities and different levels of experience. They’re not comparable just because they’re from the same continent.

No two prospects have the same roles, bodies, responsibilities and level of experience. If the prerequisite for comparison is that they need to have the same roles, bodies, responsibilities, level of experience, team mates and coaching, you're never gonna have a comparison. What you do is take what is common (competition) and evaluate based off that. How do you evaluate and project a guy a rather underwhelming athlete and diminutive 6'2 guard like Young to be lower than an athletic 7' 250lb monster like Ayton together in the same draft? They are polar opposite of each other in terms of role, body, responsibility and level of experience so you have to take what they've done in that common arena which is NCAA competition. And even then, there's variability because they played in different conferences.

But that's the thing about scouting, comparisons and projections, it's an inexact science and you have to take what you have and based on what we've seen in the past to make those evaluations.

[bwgood77]

Are we going to run a mock draft comp again?

Has to be a site somewhere that makes it easy - ie drag and drop. I hate having to get them all in there.

Yes, lazy.

viewtopic.php?f=27&t=1715483

[Fo-Real]

Nobody gives a steaming pile of **** about that waitress. I give more of a **** about the ant pile at the end of my street.

[bondom34]

Doncic and Porzingis are as similar as Porzingis and Bender. They are not, nor have they ever, been comparable.

The same can be said of the NCAA, Euroleague, and NBA. Different 3 pt line, different goaltending rules in Euroleague, different offense, different defense. They’re almost three different sports. Doncic’s success in the Euroleague is by no means a guarantee for NBA stardom. It’s promising, but it’s not a guarantee.

We assumed development from Porzingis, but how much better can Doncic be? He’s been playing high level basketball for a long time. I know prodigies in other areas. They don’t necessarily get better. Maybe Doncic at 14 is Bender at 21. While Bender may never get to where Doncic is now, Doncic may have learned all he can. Sometimes prodigies think they know everything. Doncic may not be that open to criticism.

I have high expectations for him still, but I’m not as high on him as other people are.

Not sure what you mean, unless it's just play style. Doncic has been far better than KP ever was at a younger age in a bigger role on a better team. Comparing their Euro stats it's night and day, and Bender wasn't close to either of their levels.

And you're absolutely right, there's not a guarantee Doncic improves, but there's not a guarantee anyone does. Maybe Doncic doesn't. Maybe Ayton doesn't, maybe Young doesn't. It's on the player and staff at that point but I'd trust a kid who's shown great smarts on court to get better.

Doncic and Porzingis have different roles, different bodies, different responsibilities and different levels of experience. They’re not comparable just because they’re from the same continent.

Of course not, but in the same way you can't compare them, you couldn't compare any 2 players across positions. It's all relative.

[JMac1]

Just a thought. If this draft is so weak, then shouldn't it be easy for us to trade up?

Also, I think this draft is being down played by some because of the teams with the top picks. Half the league was tanking profusely, then after the lottery the draft all of a sudden became weak, Not buying it.

Top 6 teams

Phoenix
Sacramento
Atlanta
Memphis
Orlando
Dallas......not one marquee team.

[lilfishi22]

Just a thought. If this draft is so weak, then shouldn't it be easy for us to trade up?

Also, I think this draft is being down played by some because of the teams with the top picks. Half the league was tanking profusely, then after the lottery the draft all of a sudden became weak, Not buying it.

Top 6 teams

Phoenix
Sacramento
Atlanta
Memphis
Orlando
Dallas......not one marquee team.

This is suppose to be one of the best drafts in some time. There's potential all-star talent all the way to the #10 spot. There's teams that do want to move down because they view the top 10 talents after #2 to be fairly close so they think if they trade down, get some value assets in return and still get the guy they want, then it's a big win. I don't think teams are moving down because they perceive it as weak but rather because they think it's close enough that certain players will drop.

The tough part is not moving down but moving into the top 10, especially from outside the lottery.

[King4Day]

Dunno if this was posted yet

https://www.brightsideofthesun.com/2018/6/17/17446504/if-the-phoenix-suns-go-big-which-point-guards-are-realistic-options-to-trade-for-on-draft-night-nba

I could see some of these as possible.
However, 2 of them I just don't understand.

CJ McCollum will cost more than what is noted in the article.
Also, the deal with the Nets....we give up a TON to get Dinwiddie?

[King4Day]

The NBADraftGod twitter is saying Kemba is going to be shopped for an extra pick. I can't imagine Orlando giving up #6 so this might be us bidding against their remaining picks or future picks. I wonder if he can be made for primarily 16 and maybe 31 instead of having to include Warren. If they wanted to do it on draft night as this suggests, Warren is tough to include anyways because I believe his extension won't have kicked in.

If that is the case, Sauce can be used as an expiring to give them salary relief. Throw in Dudley, who while not a good contract, the return is the 2 picks and 2 million in cap savings. Or if they wanted Knight we could just do Knight and 16 for Kemba or something like that.

I have a feeling we will end up with Goran or Kemba and will not have to include Warren, Chriss, or Bender like many assume. I think it would be for 2 picks max.

Kemba sighting?

Kemba is the one guy I wouldn't be upset losing the 16 pick for. I'd be OK moving the Bucks pick and Chriss too if necessary.
Maybe they think they'll get more but with him expiring and about to make a killing, it would be enough IMO

[lilfishi22]

Dunno if this was posted yet

https://www.brightsideofthesun.com/2018/6/17/17446504/if-the-phoenix-suns-go-big-which-point-guards-are-realistic-options-to-trade-for-on-draft-night-nba

I could see some of these as possible.
However, 2 of them I just don't understand.

CJ McCollum will cost more than what is noted in the article.
Also, the deal with the Nets....we give up a TON to get Dinwiddie?

I like low cost, low risk projects like Delon Wright, Tyus Jones or Dunn for #31. These guys are young enough and talented enough to be worthy of that #31 pick. That said, I'd imagine if we were to make a move with these picks, it's more likely we're not looking to go much younger.

I also like the Goran trade. It's about the right value for an all-star. Not really feeling CJ (too expensive) or Kemba (new deal incoming)

[bwgood77]

Read on Twitter

[WeekapaugGroove]

Dunno if this was posted yet

https://www.brightsideofthesun.com/2018/6/17/17446504/if-the-phoenix-suns-go-big-which-point-guards-are-realistic-options-to-trade-for-on-draft-night-nba

I could see some of these as possible.
However, 2 of them I just don't understand.

CJ McCollum will cost more than what is noted in the article.
Also, the deal with the Nets....we give up a TON to get Dinwiddie?

Beverly for 16 seems like a wild overpay for a guy coming off microfracture with only a year left on his contract. Hell if LA drafts a pg high they might just try to dump is contract for far less than that. I like beverly as a player but not at that price.

Sent from my SM-G930V using RealGM mobile app

[bwgood77]

Dunno if this was posted yet

https://www.brightsideofthesun.com/2018/6/17/17446504/if-the-phoenix-suns-go-big-which-point-guards-are-realistic-options-to-trade-for-on-draft-night-nba

I could see some of these as possible.
However, 2 of them I just don't understand.

CJ McCollum will cost more than what is noted in the article.
Also, the deal with the Nets....we give up a TON to get Dinwiddie?

Beverly for 16 seems like a wild overpay for a guy coming off microfracture with only a year left on his contract. Hell if LA drafts a pg high they might just try to dump is contract for far less than that. I like beverly as a player but not at that price.

Sent from my SM-G930V using RealGM mobile app

They also might not pick up his option if they think he won't be healthy or want the cap space. He may hit the FA market.

[dalton749]

Dunno if this was posted yet

https://www.brightsideofthesun.com/2018/6/17/17446504/if-the-phoenix-suns-go-big-which-point-guards-are-realistic-options-to-trade-for-on-draft-night-nba

I could see some of these as possible.
However, 2 of them I just don't understand.

CJ McCollum will cost more than what is noted in the article.
Also, the deal with the Nets....we give up a TON to get Dinwiddie?

I like low cost, low risk projects like Delon Wright, Tyus Jones or Dunn for #31. These guys are young enough and talented enough to be worthy of that #31 pick. That said, I'd imagine if we were to make a move with these picks, it's more likely we're not looking to go much younger.

I also like the Goran trade. It's about the right value for an all-star. Not really feeling CJ (too expensive) or Kemba (new deal incoming)

Toronto isn’t picking up the phone for a delon for 31 trade. 16 is closer to his value than 31.

Delon is a slightly better George hill, who was also coming off of his 3rd year in the league when he was traded for 15 (kawhi).

[AtheJ415]

Yeah 59 is the only pick I trade for Bev in this draft. 31 is too valuable for a soon-to-be FA who can only guard 1 position (though he guards it well). The guys who are available at 31 will be cost controlled for 5 years and could be as good and more versatile at 1/5 of the cost.