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2014 Official FA Thread 2

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Re: 2014 Official FA Thread 2 

Post#941 » by bwgood77 » Tue Jul 1, 2014 4:26 pm

asubennett wrote:You folks wanting to build it organically are crazy -

1) Does it really matter if you drafted the superstar (Durant, Duncan etc...) as opposed to obtaining the superstar via free agency?


No. Personally I would welcome LeBron on the team and would love watching the team. Some superstars I like better than others. It would have been tough to pull for Kobe if he decided to join the Suns 5 years ago even if it made the team better, but I guess 90-95% of the people here would have loved it, based on the posts we see here.

But I am also happy watching the team grow from this year, though there is a chance we could take a step back, which obviously wouldn't be good.

I'd love to see a championship too. We all would.
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Re: 2014 Official FA Thread 2 

Post#942 » by RunDogGun » Tue Jul 1, 2014 4:27 pm

bwgood77 wrote:
Frank Lee wrote:We still have to be in the hunt for a PF ... Wouldn't be surprised if McBob shows up as a consolation prize


I've thought about him if we lose Frye. Decent stretch four, but he sure isn't much of a rebounder (well, I was looking at his 4.8 boards a game in 30 minutes this year, but he had 7.2 the year before when Jefferson wasn't there, so maybe he is a pretty good rebounder).

There sure isn't much talk about who people would want if we strike out on the big names (probable) and lose Frye (possible). I guess most would like to start Kieff, but it still seems you'd want a back up if he moved to a starting role, unless you just played Marcus at PF, Warren at SF in the second unit which I guess makes sense.

Could our new Alec Brown play that role? A backup stretch big? Or we could roll with the other Morris at the four.
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Re: 2014 Official FA Thread 2 

Post#943 » by Sun Scorched » Tue Jul 1, 2014 4:29 pm

ASSET ACCUMULATION

That's why we've held onto the rights for certain players, in lieu of a bigger FA signing. If you can trade Tucker and/or Frye to teams over the cap, and receive compensation in the form of picks, you do it. I like both, but neither give you a championship and we (somewhat surprisingly) are an incredibly deep team.

PG - (Bledsoe) / Ennis
SG - Dragic / Green / Goodwin / [Bogdanovic]
SF - (Tucker) / Warren / Morris
PF - (Frye) / Morris / [Brown]
C - Plumlee / Len
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Re: 2014 Official FA Thread 2 

Post#944 » by bwgood77 » Tue Jul 1, 2014 4:32 pm

RunDogGun wrote:
bwgood77 wrote:
Frank Lee wrote:We still have to be in the hunt for a PF ... Wouldn't be surprised if McBob shows up as a consolation prize


I've thought about him if we lose Frye. Decent stretch four, but he sure isn't much of a rebounder (well, I was looking at his 4.8 boards a game in 30 minutes this year, but he had 7.2 the year before when Jefferson wasn't there, so maybe he is a pretty good rebounder).

There sure isn't much talk about who people would want if we strike out on the big names (probable) and lose Frye (possible). I guess most would like to start Kieff, but it still seems you'd want a back up if he moved to a starting role, unless you just played Marcus at PF, Warren at SF in the second unit which I guess makes sense.

Could our new Alec Brown play that role? A backup stretch big? Or we could roll with the other Morris at the four.


I'd love it if he could. Be nice to get a rotation guy with the 50th pick! But SA got Ginobili. I'm guessing Alec Brown isn't Ginobili though.
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Re: 2014 Official FA Thread 2 

Post#945 » by TheXgasm » Tue Jul 1, 2014 4:32 pm

asubennett wrote:You folks wanting to build it organically are crazy -

1) Does it really matter if you drafted the superstar (Durant, Duncan etc...) as opposed to obtaining the superstar via free agency? If so, explain why. Superstars don't grow on tree's. You either get super lucky with a ping pong ball bounce and enjoy a decade (if the player resigns with you) of success. Or you get your superstar through this beautiful process call free agency. Just like the corporate world, if your have an opportunity to do better for you with pay, or work life balance or more profitable / winning company - you consider that. Good for Lebron embracing what the league allows him to do. Explore his options.

2) Our team won 48 games last year. Adding Lebron is instant contender status. Adding Lebron and Melo to our current core is just scary, borderline unfair to the rest of the league. I would argue much better team than Miami has ever fielded. That team went to 4 straight NBA Finals.

3) The last time we were in the finals - while it feels like yesterday to me - it was freaking 21 years ago. Archie Goodwin was not even alive then.

4) This town went nuts in 1993. I want to see that happen again. You sell harder than you have ever sold before to make this thing go down. Phoenix will go insane. Afterall, outside of a few of us, there is not better bandwagon fan state than Arizona. Everyone is transplants. Let the 5th largest city in the US rally behind Lebron. Look at what Fitz has accomplished with the Cardinals. Lebron would be a whole different level of support.

5) You don't want Lebron...... Really? Are you scared of being good? Scared to win?


I agree with everything you said, but I completely get where everyone who is saying they're apprehensive about Lebron is coming from.

You're right...superstars dont just grow on trees and no team has ever done it without snagging a few key FAs. But I think a lot of these people look more at the Spurs now. Sure, they signed free agents, but they didn't sign superstars. They drafted one amazing, sure fire talent in Timmy, then drafted what everyone labeled "projects" in Tony Parker and Manu Ginobli and polished them up, trained them, let them flourish. I think most of us are under the impression that the Spurs are where they are because of solid organizational moves and great coaching and teaching.

That kind of rare success based on development is something we all want, because it seems so much more organic. You pay for Lebron, you get amazingness. But it was paid for. It's like paying for a pizza versus making it at home. Yeah, Pizzeria Bianco and Cibo are going to make far more amazing pizzas and nothing I can do at home will replicate it, but it feels so much cooler to make it myself.

That being said, while I get it and I feel it, and I do wish our first championship is won via homegrown methods, I know it's not that simple and not that easy, and I wouldn't be mad if we paid for Instant Success Player, whatever his name may be, because it's been far too long for this city and this franchise. We all suffered through the years, through good and bad, through KJ and Thunder Dan just as much as through Negele Knight and Jerrod Mustaf. A championship is a championship is a championship, no matter how it's won, just like pizza is pizza is pizza, no matter where it's cooked.

It just tastes a little sweeter when you know you cooked it yourself.
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Re: 2014 Official FA Thread 2 

Post#946 » by bwgood77 » Tue Jul 1, 2014 4:37 pm

I was thinking, if we struck out on the big name free agents and were pretty much coming back as the same team, would anyone be for signing Paul Pierce to a big one year contract? Just giving him an offer that he couldn't refuse and no one else would consider? He could go a long way toward replacing a Tucker or Frye (or both) loss and would obviously start over either if they were here.

And if it vaulted us into the playoffs, especially as a fairly high seed and made us more competitive, it might make big names consider us in the future (or Love in 2015) if they think they can replicate or do more than Paul Pierce did.
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Re: 2014 Official FA Thread 2 

Post#947 » by RunDogGun » Tue Jul 1, 2014 4:43 pm

bwgood77 wrote:
RunDogGun wrote:
bwgood77 wrote:
I've thought about him if we lose Frye. Decent stretch four, but he sure isn't much of a rebounder (well, I was looking at his 4.8 boards a game in 30 minutes this year, but he had 7.2 the year before when Jefferson wasn't there, so maybe he is a pretty good rebounder).

There sure isn't much talk about who people would want if we strike out on the big names (probable) and lose Frye (possible). I guess most would like to start Kieff, but it still seems you'd want a back up if he moved to a starting role, unless you just played Marcus at PF, Warren at SF in the second unit which I guess makes sense.

Could our new Alec Brown play that role? A backup stretch big? Or we could roll with the other Morris at the four.


I'd love it if he could. Be nice to get a rotation guy with the 50th pick! But SA got Ginobili. I'm guessing Alec Brown isn't Ginobili though.


Or like Marc Gasol at 48? Or Gortat at 57? :D
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Re: 2014 Official FA Thread 2 

Post#948 » by NTB » Tue Jul 1, 2014 4:45 pm

Guys we got Dragic at 45
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Re: 2014 Official FA Thread 2 

Post#949 » by RunDogGun » Tue Jul 1, 2014 4:53 pm

NTB wrote:Guys we got Dragic at 45

I think we all knew that, but I was thinking about starting bigs that were taken around 50. :wink:
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Re: 2014 Official FA Thread 2 

Post#950 » by TheXgasm » Tue Jul 1, 2014 4:56 pm

Monta Ellis, Stephen Jackson and Michael Redd were all drafted in the 40's
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Re: 2014 Official FA Thread 2 

Post#951 » by Sunsdeuce » Tue Jul 1, 2014 4:59 pm

Every team is waiting on lebron and melo and it's slowing free agency down. Sucks!!!


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Re: 2014 Official FA Thread 2 

Post#952 » by Frank Lee » Tue Jul 1, 2014 5:00 pm

bwgood77 wrote:I was thinking, if we struck out on the big name free agents and were pretty much coming back as the same team, would anyone be for signing Paul Pierce to a big one year contract? Just giving him an offer that he couldn't refuse and no one else would consider? He could go a long way toward replacing a Tucker or Frye (or both) loss and would obviously start over either if they were here.

And if it vaulted us into the playoffs, especially as a fairly high seed and made us more competitive, it might make big names consider us in the future (or Love in 2015) if they think they can replicate or do more than Paul Pierce did.


We can't land a difference maker, I don't see why we'd add PP to our crowded wing spot. I think we sign Tucker and between him Goodwin, CusMo, Green and hopefully Warren that ought to consume all the wing minutes.

I think we will be pleasantly surprised by Warren... If he makes it through the Trade Talks. Now if we had to send off a few in a deal, Pierce would be welcomed by me. Old Schooler with no love for his opposition.

Furthermore, i think Frye is as good as gone now that Portland has entered the ring... And I hope we get on the horn to Milw and rescue Illysova. We won by team ball last yr, and can do it again this yr with a healthy squad. But we have to upgrade the PF spot.
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Re: 2014 Official FA Thread 2 

Post#953 » by TheXgasm » Tue Jul 1, 2014 5:03 pm

Marc Stein ‏@ESPNSteinLine 2m
Mavs all in on pursuit of Carmelo Anthony and Dirk will be star face of Dallas' recruiting team Wednesday when its pitch follows Rockets

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Don't forget Mavs and Dirk already have good idea of ballpark on deal given fact sides discussed extension last month before June 30 buzzer
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Re: 2014 Official FA Thread 2 

Post#954 » by Sunsdeuce » Tue Jul 1, 2014 5:05 pm

TheXgasm wrote:Marc Stein ‏@ESPNSteinLine 2m
Mavs all in on pursuit of Carmelo Anthony and Dirk will be star face of Dallas' recruiting team Wednesday when its pitch follows Rockets

Marc Stein ‏@ESPNSteinLine 1m
Don't forget Mavs and Dirk already have good idea of ballpark on deal given fact sides discussed extension last month before June 30 buzzer

Stein is always going to be on the Mavs nuts. He is a Dallas guy. Dallas isn't going any harder than anyone else.


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Re: 2014 Official FA Thread 2 

Post#955 » by King4Day » Tue Jul 1, 2014 5:12 pm

Sunsdeuce wrote:
TheXgasm wrote:Marc Stein ‏@ESPNSteinLine 2m
Mavs all in on pursuit of Carmelo Anthony and Dirk will be star face of Dallas' recruiting team Wednesday when its pitch follows Rockets

Marc Stein ‏@ESPNSteinLine 1m
Don't forget Mavs and Dirk already have good idea of ballpark on deal given fact sides discussed extension last month before June 30 buzzer

Stein is always going to be on the Mavs nuts. He is a Dallas guy. Dallas isn't going any harder than anyone else.


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I also don't buy the BS that Cuban won't be offering any max deals. If Melo says he'll play there for the max, he'll get it.
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Re: 2014 Official FA Thread 2 

Post#956 » by RunDogGun » Tue Jul 1, 2014 5:12 pm

TheXgasm wrote:Monta Ellis, Stephen Jackson and Michael Redd were all drafted in the 40's

Again, I was thinking of starting bigs, not guards and wings.
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Re: 2014 Official FA Thread 2 

Post#957 » by TheXgasm » Tue Jul 1, 2014 5:14 pm

RunDogGun wrote:
TheXgasm wrote:Monta Ellis, Stephen Jackson and Michael Redd were all drafted in the 40's

Again, I was thinking of starting bigs, not guards and wings.


No, I gotcha. I just hadn't seen your post when I posted that. I honestly can't think of many, or really any, bigs that made an impact from the second round.
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Re: 2014 Official FA Thread 2 

Post#958 » by WeekapaugGroove » Tue Jul 1, 2014 5:15 pm

JDLAW wrote:Boy, I am tired of explaining this to people. Agreed in principle is an agreement to sign the contract or offer sheet when the time for performance comes due. It is basic contract law. Part of a contractual agreement is the time for performance of the obligation. In this case the agreement is that you (team) will agree to tender me an offer sheet in the amount to $x and I will agree to sign it on the first day the league permits performance to go forward.

An executed offer sheet is a contingent contract that becomes effective if the offer sheet is not matched. Under the CBA you get 3 days to do this.
your contact knowledge is strong but if you're trying to say that a cap hold goes into effect when there's a verbal agreement in place you're wrong. The cap hold only hits once the contract is submitted to the league office. Otherwise you would have a weird environment where teams would agree and then keep it secret. It's happened a lot in the past where where a team agree to a deal with one of its own players but don't sign the deal right away as they chase other free agents then go over the cap with bird right on their own guy.

Using Bledsoe as an example say he agrees tomorrow to an offer sheet from another team; his cap hold would jump the minute he signed his deal on the 7th and then the suns would have 3 days to match. But lets say the Suns and Bledsoe agree to a deal; they can choose to wait to submit the contract whenever they want after the 7th and he would still only count as his current cap hold until the deal was sent to the league office. By doing that the suns could sign guys up to the cap then go over when they actually submit the Bledsoe contract. Thats the incentive for the suns to actually agree to a deal with bledsoe instead of matching another teams offer.



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Re: 2014 Official FA Thread 2 

Post#959 » by RunDogGun » Tue Jul 1, 2014 5:19 pm

TheXgasm wrote:
RunDogGun wrote:
TheXgasm wrote:Monta Ellis, Stephen Jackson and Michael Redd were all drafted in the 40's

Again, I was thinking of starting bigs, not guards and wings.


No, I gotcha. I just hadn't seen your post when I posted that. I honestly can't think of many, or really any, bigs that made an impact from the second round.

Yep, MGasol and Gortat are really the current ones that come to mind.

But if we can find a FA big that could contribute something close to Frye, with stretching the floor, I'm cool with that as well.

I'm going to keep an eye on Brown in the summer league. If he can knock down the three around his college career of 40%, I'd be more than happy. He just needs to work on strength and rebounding, while shooting from distance....maybe we get a huge steal that no one is talking about.
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Re: 2014 Official FA Thread 2 

Post#960 » by JMac1 » Tue Jul 1, 2014 5:35 pm

TheXgasm wrote:Marc Stein ‏@ESPNSteinLine 2m
Mavs all in on pursuit of Carmelo Anthony and Dirk will be star face of Dallas' recruiting team Wednesday when its pitch follows Rockets

Marc Stein ‏@ESPNSteinLine 1m
Don't forget Mavs and Dirk already have good idea of ballpark on deal given fact sides discussed extension last month before June 30 buzzer


uh oh! Dirk Nowitzki is pitching to Melo?

Dirk is just abut done. I am so tired of hearing this Dallas garbage. Dirk,Chandler and Fat Felton :lol:

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