Offseason Thread 6: The Not So Mexican Stand-off Continues

BobbieL · Post #941 » by **BobbieL** » Sat Sep 20, 2014 2:02 pm

Really just done with the guy and his lame agent. Just using the Twolves to try to make the Suns be the bad guys by not trading for Pekovic and Martin - -"its the Suns fault, Bledsoe was denied a max deal by the Suns"

I say ask him what teams he would play for under the QO and see if those teams have anything of value to offer

Granted, those same teams can wait a year and sign him

carey · Post #942 » by **carey** » Sat Sep 20, 2014 2:51 pm

dgwdum wrote:
Qwigglez wrote:If Minny really wants Bledsoe, then they gotta give up the goods (Wiggins).

If you think bledsoe is good enough to net the suns wiggins then you should have no problem giving bledsoe a max deal then right?

the truth is Bledsoe isn't worth the max let alone Wiggins. The suns 4/48 deal is fair but bledsoe just doesn't want to play in Phoenix imo. Let him rot on the bench.

Faulty logic. Wiggins isn't worth the max right now. Bledsoe is currently the better player too. It would be a trade all about potential & what you think he can become.

JJ13 · Post #943 » by **JJ13** » Sat Sep 20, 2014 2:52 pm

dgwdum wrote:
Qwigglez wrote:If Minny really wants Bledsoe, then they gotta give up the goods (Wiggins).

If you think bledsoe is good enough to net the suns wiggins then you should have no problem giving bledsoe a max deal then right?

the truth is Bledsoe isn't worth the max let alone Wiggins. The suns 4/48 deal is fair but bledsoe just doesn't want to play in Phoenix imo. Let him rot on the bench.

Wolves got Wiggins, Thad and Bennett for Love (max)...so why would Wiggins for Bledsoe mean Bledsoe is max?

Years90Suns · Post #944 » by **Years90Suns** » Sat Sep 20, 2014 3:18 pm

I would do a deal only if we get somebody among Dieng, Wiggins or Lavine+pick(s). May be RR in our system, and able to guard a SG, could be interesting.

Zelaznyrules · Post #945 » by **Zelaznyrules** » Sat Sep 20, 2014 3:32 pm

Why all the Lavine love? Odds are he's a few years away from being an NBA punchline.

NavLDO · Post #946 » by **NavLDO** » Sat Sep 20, 2014 3:45 pm

carey wrote:
NavLDO wrote:What you are proposing is basically "cow-towing" to Bledsoe. Horny will do what is best for the Suns overall. Of that, I have no doubt. He needs to build upon what he knows he'll have in the future. While I agree this isn't a "hatred" for Phoenix, but it is about unrealistic expectations and poor business practices. .

Oy vey. You'd need a trailer to cow tow. It's kowtow or really kau tau.

As for the larger point, if Bledsoe is on the team, at any contract, he'll play. He may not start if he's on a one year deal, but he'll play & probably play relatively big minutes.

Thank you Captain Obvious, and it's koutou (4th tone, 2nd tone) as well, in Mandarin...I was trying to put it in some type of form of "English", hence the quotes, so those that aren't familiar with the phrase, or Chinese-Canton or Chinese-Mandarin, would figure out what I was saying. So sorry I didn't use the proper spelling...I thought I was on a Suns forum, not a grammar and spelling forum.

And while it appears moot now, (if we S&T Bledsoe) I still contend they would bring him in off the bench. Yes, he may play a lot of minutes, but doubt he would start.

Post #947 » by **lilfishi22** » Sat Sep 20, 2014 3:45 pm

Zelaznyrules wrote:Why all the Lavine love? Odds are he's a few years away from being an NBA punchline.

Not a fan of Lavine but he's super athletic and could turn out to be a decent player.

Zelaznyrules · Post #948 » by **Zelaznyrules** » Sat Sep 20, 2014 4:03 pm

lilfishi22 wrote:
Zelaznyrules wrote:Why all the Lavine love? Odds are he's a few years away from being an NBA punchline.

Not a fan of Lavine but he's super athletic and could turn out to be a decent player.

Absolutely. He's an incredible athlete. But how often does someone have such an up and down one year college career and then go on to stardom? Goodwin is a long shot but at least he has a strong work ethic and the desire to try and do what his coaches tell him to do. Lavine is all about Lavine. Maybe he makes it but it's the big MAYBE. That kind of player is nice as a throw in to a trade but not as the centerpiece.

spanishninja · Post #949 » by **spanishninja** » Sat Sep 20, 2014 4:12 pm

NavLDO wrote:
carey wrote:
NavLDO wrote:What you are proposing is basically "cow-towing" to Bledsoe. Horny will do what is best for the Suns overall. Of that, I have no doubt. He needs to build upon what he knows he'll have in the future. While I agree this isn't a "hatred" for Phoenix, but it is about unrealistic expectations and poor business practices. .

Oy vey. You'd need a trailer to cow tow. It's kowtow or really kau tau.

As for the larger point, if Bledsoe is on the team, at any contract, he'll play. He may not start if he's on a one year deal, but he'll play & probably play relatively big minutes.

Thank you Captain Obvious, and it's koutou (4th tone, 2nd tone) as well, in Mandarin...I was trying to put it in some type of form of "English", hence the quotes, so those that aren't familiar with the phrase, or Chinese-Canton or Chinese-Mandarin, would figure out what I was saying. So sorry I didn't use the proper spelling...I thought I was on a Suns forum, not a grammar and spelling forum.

And while it appears moot now, (if we S&T Bledsoe) I still contend they would bring him in off the bench. Yes, he may play a lot of minutes, but doubt he would start.

"Kau-tau" is the cantonese phonetic. Koutou's correct in Mandarin.

RunDogGun · Post #950 » by **RunDogGun** » Sat Sep 20, 2014 4:21 pm

carey wrote:
dgwdum wrote:
Qwigglez wrote:If Minny really wants Bledsoe, then they gotta give up the goods (Wiggins).

If you think bledsoe is good enough to net the suns wiggins then you should have no problem giving bledsoe a max deal then right?

the truth is Bledsoe isn't worth the max let alone Wiggins. The suns 4/48 deal is fair but bledsoe just doesn't want to play in Phoenix imo. Let him rot on the bench.

Faulty logic. Wiggins isn't worth the max right now. Bledsoe is currently the better player too. It would be a trade all about potential & what you think he can become.

I'd have to agree with this. Wiggins has done squat so far in this league, and I highly doubt he gets anywhere near Bledsoe's stats in year one or two. Yes he was a number one pick, and yes he has great potential, but right now Bledsoe is the better player.

But obviously, if we were gunning for Wiggins, we would have to add some picks, just because his potential is high. Most likely we would offer your pick back, and our first rounder next year. I'm sure you guys would ask for the Laker pick as well, but I don't think we will give that up just yet.

At this point, we have all the leverage if your team really wants Bledsoe. If they don't, then this is all moot.

Btw, I think Fesenko pickup was a good one.

dgwdum · Post #951 » by **dgwdum** » Sat Sep 20, 2014 4:28 pm

JJ13 wrote:
dgwdum wrote:
Qwigglez wrote:If Minny really wants Bledsoe, then they gotta give up the goods (Wiggins).

If you think bledsoe is good enough to net the suns wiggins then you should have no problem giving bledsoe a max deal then right?

the truth is Bledsoe isn't worth the max let alone Wiggins. The suns 4/48 deal is fair but bledsoe just doesn't want to play in Phoenix imo. Let him rot on the bench.

Wolves got Wiggins, Thad and Bennett for Love (max)...so why would Wiggins for Bledsoe mean Bledsoe is max?

The point I was trying to make is that wiggins was good enough to get love and we know bledsoe is nowhere near as good as love. So if someone is only willing to trade bledsoe for wiggins than why not just give bledsoe the max since that particular poster values him so much.

King4Day · Post #952 » by **King4Day** » Sat Sep 20, 2014 4:46 pm

Do people really think the Wolves would consider giving up Wiggins? He's their prize in the Love trade.

Also, our 'advantage' over teams with regards to Bledsoe is 10 days from being a huge disadvantage. At that point, we'll need to just hang onto him and hope he plays well and the city starts to grow on him.

suns91fan · Post #953 » by **suns91fan** » Sat Sep 20, 2014 4:59 pm

dgwdum wrote:
JJ13 wrote:
dgwdum wrote:

If you think bledsoe is good enough to net the suns wiggins then you should have no problem giving bledsoe a max deal then right?

the truth is Bledsoe isn't worth the max let alone Wiggins. The suns 4/48 deal is fair but bledsoe just doesn't want to play in Phoenix imo. Let him rot on the bench.

Wolves got Wiggins, Thad and Bennett for Love (max)...so why would Wiggins for Bledsoe mean Bledsoe is max?

The point I was trying to make is that wiggins was good enough to get love and we know bledsoe is nowhere near as good as love. So if someone is only willing to trade bledsoe for wiggins than why not just give bledsoe the max since that particular poster values him so much.

Bledsoe is nowhere near as good as Love? That's highly debatable. Bledsoe is a two-way player, Love is not. I'll leave it at that.

Post #954 » by **rsavaj** » Sat Sep 20, 2014 5:14 pm

"Wolves are willing to offer Bledsoe the max in a sign and trade if Phoenix is willing to take on bad contracts in return" is pretty much the real headline here.

I'm ready for Bled to take the QO and for us to do our best to make the playoffs this year.

http://www.brightsideofthesun.com/2014/ ... mberwolves

JDLAW · Post #955 » by **JDLAW** » Sat Sep 20, 2014 5:56 pm

carey wrote:
JDLAW wrote:
carey wrote:
No. We've been over this so many times. UFA & no Bird rights if he plays under QO. That's why no one wants that as an outcome. It means it's almost a certainty he walks without compensation.

If he plays under the QO and is not traded, the Suns will retain his Bird rights. If he is traded while playing on the QO, there are none.

Ok, I might be reading the CBA wrong. My understanding is that Bird Rights are accumulated after 3 seasons spent with the same team or if they have changed teams it must be without becoming a free agent or clearing waivers. Once Bird rights are established, they don't go away unless the player is renounced or signs with another NBA team. This is where it gets tricky for me. A contract signed under the Early Bird Exception (2 years w/ same team instead of 3) must be at least two years in length. (Thus a player can not sign a one- year contract under the Early Bird Exception while waiting for the Larry Bird Exception to kick in the following year.) The team would have to renounce Bird Rights to sign that player to a one year deal.

I'm assuming the minimum contract length does not apply if a player has full Bird Rights? I know UFA's can be sign and traded. If Bledsoe plays under the QO we can still S&T him if we make the salaries match, but I'm not sure if we will be able to go over the cap to do it. I don't think it matters really. Unless we make a major move during the season and acquire more salary, even with Goran, the Morris twins, and Green's cap hold we could fit Eric's max under the cap and send him out somewhere making Bird Rights irrelevant. I'd have to double check though.

I am absolutely certain the Suns retain his bird rights. They never lose them because there is no interruption in service on the same team. When you trade a player on a QO it is considered an interruption of service and the rights do not transfer. The same is true for a vet who signs a one year contract with his team, there is no loss if Bird rights because there is no interruption. The the QO rule is in place is to prevent a team that is over the cap from coming in and taking a young player on the cheap and blowing up the cap the following year. It was considered a loophole.

dgwdum · Post #956 » by **dgwdum** » Sat Sep 20, 2014 6:10 pm

suns91fan wrote:
dgwdum wrote:
JJ13 wrote:
Wolves got Wiggins, Thad and Bennett for Love (max)...so why would Wiggins for Bledsoe mean Bledsoe is max?

The point I was trying to make is that wiggins was good enough to get love and we know bledsoe is nowhere near as good as love. So if someone is only willing to trade bledsoe for wiggins than why not just give bledsoe the max since that particular poster values him so much.

Bledsoe is nowhere near as good as Love? That's highly debatable. Bledsoe is a two-way player, Love is not. I'll leave it at that.

That's my point. Why not just give bledsoe 4/60 then and be done with this situation?

RunDogGun · Post #957 » by **RunDogGun** » Sat Sep 20, 2014 6:14 pm

DarkHawk wrote:Do people really think the Wolves would consider giving up Wiggins? He's their prize in the Love trade.

Also, our 'advantage' over teams with regards to Bledsoe is 10 days from being a huge disadvantage. At that point, we'll need to just hang onto him and hope he plays well and the city starts to grow on him.

That all depends on whether they want to win now. Wiggins is at least a couple years out from really contributing. Now if he had killer range, my opinion would completely change. And netting Bledsoe and a couple picks would still be a good prize.

RunDogGun · Post #958 » by **RunDogGun** » Sat Sep 20, 2014 6:18 pm

dgwdum wrote:
suns91fan wrote:
dgwdum wrote:The point I was trying to make is that wiggins was good enough to get love and we know bledsoe is nowhere near as good as love. So if someone is only willing to trade bledsoe for wiggins than why not just give bledsoe the max since that particular poster values him so much.

Bledsoe is nowhere near as good as Love? That's highly debatable. Bledsoe is a two-way player, Love is not. I'll leave it at that.

That's my point. Why not just give bledsoe 4/60 then and be done with this situation?

His side won't come to the table, so there is no point in upping our offer. It is what it is, and we won't be done with it, until Bledsoe's camp comes to negotiate.

RaisingArizona · Post #959 » by **RaisingArizona** » Sat Sep 20, 2014 6:50 pm

I'd take Pek/Lavine just to see the crybaby go.

jcsunsfan · Post #960 » by **jcsunsfan** » Sat Sep 20, 2014 7:24 pm

dgwdum wrote:
Qwigglez wrote:If Minny really wants Bledsoe, then they gotta give up the goods (Wiggins).

If you think bledsoe is good enough to net the suns wiggins then you should have no problem giving bledsoe a max deal then right?

the truth is Bledsoe isn't worth the max let alone Wiggins. The suns 4/48 deal is fair but bledsoe just doesn't want to play in Phoenix imo. Let him rot on the bench.

Not exactly. I would give up Bledsoe plus multiple picks AND take back a bad contract for Wiggins.