Suns Offseason Thread 3: Spurned for the Spurs

[TeamTragic]

I've never understood the Sullinger love here.

I'm not surprised. Defense and rebounding wasn't exactly a priority last season

[krishanson]

Kieff though is efficient in points per post up. He's not really inefficient at all except that he takes a lot of long 2s, but when you make them they aren't inefficient. Particularly in clutch situations. I just disagree with this idea of Kieff being inefficient. He's not a rebounder, not a defender, so if he's not efficient then he must be truly awful.

I'm not sure about his points per post up but I know he shoots about 50% from 10-16ft which is really impressive. But so far in his NBA career, he's an awful 3 point shooter and takes about 2 per game. He's incapable of getting to the FT line, which is huge for efficiency and he seems to be an extremely average FT shooter. This season, his ORtg was only 102 (Marcus' was 107) and his Offensive Box Plus/Minus was -0.07. He posted more defensive win-shares than he did offensive win-shares in 14-15.

[saintEscaton]

In Beantown Sully basically had the green light to chuck threes for the sake of "spacing"/extending his range so he ended up taking more attempts per game even with a dislocated follow through finger. Thus his lower 3pt% lowered his total FG% percent and his per 36 while also skewing his advanced metrics. However his 2P% is a whole .1 above Kieff's. He's money in the paint, dominant in the post and shot 50% from the midrange in limited volume as indicated by his shot chart.

[TheXgasm]

Yeah I think they were pushing Sullinger to become more of a stretch 4 than he really was. That's not his game.

I'm not saying I love him over Markieff exactly. I'm just saying I'd take him over a disgruntled Markieff if the need arises.

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk

[NavLDO]

I've never understood the Sullinger love here.

I'm so with you on that one!!

Oh, IDK, maybe the additional 3 Rebounds per 36? Or his 106 ORtg/103DRtg vs Kieff's 102ORtg/105DRtg last season. Or his 17.9 to 15.8 PER. And it's not like Kieff's 32% from 3 is spectacular, vs. Sully's 28%, or anything. Not to mention Sully is 2.5 years younger.

So yeah, that's the love. I'd take Sully over Kieff right now, as he's already playing better than Kieff in a lot of areas, and is still developing.

[Stix]

Fat man Sullinger does not belong on the Suns.

[NavLDO]

Fat man Sullinger does not belong on the Suns.

"Jared Sullinger has been running this offseason in an effort to come into the 2015-16 season in better shape.

"My body's finally telling me it's time to lose weight," said Sullinger. Next season will be an important one for Sullinger as he'll be in a contract year. He posted averages of 13.3 points, 7.6 rebounds, 2.3 assists and 0.9 three-pointers per game on 43.9 percent shooting during the 2014-15 season, but perhaps those numbers can take a small jump with a solid offseason of dedication to getting his body right."

Next excuse???

[NavLDO]

It's been awfully quiet on the Sun's front since LMA got snagged. I'd be shocked if a trade didn't happen within the next few days. Some pkg involving Kieff and/or Bledsoe, with the:

Celtics for Olynyk and/or Sully

Cleveland for Love

Nets for any number of there bigs

Philly for any of their bigs (Heck, I'd take a chance on Embiid)

NYK for any of their bigs

Sac for Cousins!!

Minny for Dieng, Bennett, or Payne

Bulls for Gasol, Gibson, or Mirotic

I'm not necessarily saying one is better than the others, other than Love, but heck, Olynyk hit 35% from 3. He may look gangly and goofy, but the guy has talent, can shoot, and rebound.

[AtheJ415]

I've never understood the Sullinger love here.

I'm so with you on that one!!

Oh, IDK, maybe the additional 3 Rebounds per 36? Or his 106 ORtg/103DRtg vs Kieff's 102ORtg/105DRtg last season. Or his 17.9 to 15.8 PER. And it's not like Kieff's 32% from 3 is spectacular, vs. Sully's 28%, or anything. Not to mention Sully is 2.5 years younger.

So yeah, that's the love. I'd take Sully over Kieff right now, as he's already playing better than Kieff in a lot of areas, and is still developing.

Not talking about Kieff v. Sullinger. I'm talking about the general love for Sullinger, such that people advocate trading everyone and anyone for him. I've seen Bledsoe offered many times on this board for Sullinger, and frankly, I think anyone who thinks that would be wise for us needs his head examined.

Sullinger is a solid player. I think he's valuable, and maybe more valuable than Markieff, but I see people on here claiming Sullinger has superstar potential and that we should be fine trading anyone else. I just don't agree. I wouldn't trade Knight, Bledsoe, Len, Warren for Sullinger. I don't see his superstar potential, and given Kieff's contract I may prefer Kieff. I'm undecided on that. But the way people talk about him on here is essentially the equivalent of saying Kieff is a superstar or has that potential, which I've never seen advocated.

[AtheJ415]

Fat man Sullinger does not belong on the Suns.

"Jared Sullinger has been running this offseason in an effort to come into the 2015-16 season in better shape.

"My body's finally telling me it's time to lose weight," said Sullinger. Next season will be an important one for Sullinger as he'll be in a contract year. He posted averages of 13.3 points, 7.6 rebounds, 2.3 assists and 0.9 three-pointers per game on 43.9 percent shooting during the 2014-15 season, but perhaps those numbers can take a small jump with a solid offseason of dedication to getting his body right."

Next excuse???

Frankly, since that's been his biggest criticism since college, I don't find it particularly promising. It took him 3 years to realize he needs to lose weight? Really? That's Diaw-esque.

[lilfishi22]

Fat man Sullinger does not belong on the Suns.

"Jared Sullinger has been running this offseason in an effort to come into the 2015-16 season in better shape.

"My body's finally telling me it's time to lose weight," said Sullinger. Next season will be an important one for Sullinger as he'll be in a contract year. He posted averages of 13.3 points, 7.6 rebounds, 2.3 assists and 0.9 three-pointers per game on 43.9 percent shooting during the 2014-15 season, but perhaps those numbers can take a small jump with a solid offseason of dedication to getting his body right."

Next excuse???

Frankly, since that's been his biggest criticism since college, I don't find it particularly promising. It took him 3 years to realize he needs to lose weight? Really? That's Diaw-esque.

Very Diaw-esque. After Diaw got his fat deal, he got fat, lazy and his production dropped. You can bet Sully will have a career year, look good and get a nice deal. Then who knows

[NavLDO]

I'm so with you on that one!!

Oh, IDK, maybe the additional 3 Rebounds per 36? Or his 106 ORtg/103DRtg vs Kieff's 102ORtg/105DRtg last season. Or his 17.9 to 15.8 PER. And it's not like Kieff's 32% from 3 is spectacular, vs. Sully's 28%, or anything. Not to mention Sully is 2.5 years younger.

So yeah, that's the love. I'd take Sully over Kieff right now, as he's already playing better than Kieff in a lot of areas, and is still developing.

Not talking about Kieff v. Sullinger. I'm talking about the general love for Sullinger, such that people advocate trading everyone and anyone for him. I've seen Bledsoe offered many times on this board for Sullinger, and frankly, I think anyone who thinks that would be wise for us needs his head examined.

Sullinger is a solid player. I think he's valuable, and maybe more valuable than Markieff, but I see people on here claiming Sullinger has superstar potential and that we should be fine trading anyone else. I just don't agree. I wouldn't trade Knight, Bledsoe, Len, Warren for Sullinger. I don't see his superstar potential, and given Kieff's contract I may prefer Kieff. I'm undecided on that. But the way people talk about him on here is essentially the equivalent of saying Kieff is a superstar or has that potential, which I've never seen advocated.

I don't ever remember anyone ever saying to trade Bledsoe straight up, or Len straight up for Sully, I've only seen someone mention Len for Sully and Oly pkg, but never one for one--I agree, Sully is not worth either of those two one for one.

[NavLDO]

"Jared Sullinger has been running this offseason in an effort to come into the 2015-16 season in better shape.

"My body's finally telling me it's time to lose weight," said Sullinger. Next season will be an important one for Sullinger as he'll be in a contract year. He posted averages of 13.3 points, 7.6 rebounds, 2.3 assists and 0.9 three-pointers per game on 43.9 percent shooting during the 2014-15 season, but perhaps those numbers can take a small jump with a solid offseason of dedication to getting his body right."

Next excuse???

Frankly, since that's been his biggest criticism since college, I don't find it particularly promising. It took him 3 years to realize he needs to lose weight? Really? That's Diaw-esque.

Very Diaw-esque. After Diaw got his fat deal, he got fat, lazy and his production dropped. You can bet Sully will have a career year, look good and get a nice deal. Then who knows

That's not really a fair comparison--they are two different people. Just because one player does it, doesn't mean another necessarily would. And not to mention, Sully has improved every year since entering the league, so if he improves again, does that mean it's only because it's a contract year? Does every player do this? Improve their shooting? Improve their defensive effort? Add muscle? Etc? Only to regress the next year?

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/s/sullija01.html

[RaisingArizona]

I should have added Sullinger to the word cloud lol

[lilfishi22]

That's not really a fair comparison--they are two different people. Just because one player does it, doesn't mean another necessarily would. And not to mention, Sully has improved every year since entering the league, so if he improves again, does that mean it's only because it's a contract year? Does every player do this? Improve their shooting? Improve their defensive effort? Add muscle? Etc? Only to regress the next year?

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/s/sullija01.html

I'm not saying he's not talented but it's taken him 3 years to realise he's heavy and NOW decides to lose weight? So he just happened to have an epiphany and it has nothing to do with it being contract year this upcoming season.

[RaisingArizona]

That's not really a fair comparison--they are two different people. Just because one player does it, doesn't mean another necessarily would. And not to mention, Sully has improved every year since entering the league, so if he improves again, does that mean it's only because it's a contract year? Does every player do this? Improve their shooting? Improve their defensive effort? Add muscle? Etc? Only to regress the next year?

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/s/sullija01.html

I'm not saying he's not talented but it's taken him 3 years to realise he's heavy and NOW decides to lose weight? So he just happened to have an epiphany and it has nothing to do with it being contract year this upcoming season.

That scares me.

[JMac1]

Thanks for the stats fellas...but still not on the Sullinger bandwagon.

[bwgood77]

It's been awfully quiet on the Sun's front since LMA got snagged. I'd be shocked if a trade didn't happen within the next few days. Some pkg involving Kieff and/or Bledsoe, with the:

Celtics for Olynyk and/or Sully

Cleveland for Love

Nets for any number of there bigs

Philly for any of their bigs (Heck, I'd take a chance on Embiid)

NYK for any of their bigs

Sac for Cousins!!

Minny for Dieng, Bennett, or Payne

Bulls for Gasol, Gibson, or Mirotic

I'm not necessarily saying one is better than the others, other than Love, but heck, Olynyk hit 35% from 3. He may look gangly and goofy, but the guy has talent, can shoot, and rebound.

Nothing can really actually happen with trades until contracts are inked, which is July 9th.

[bwgood77]

Where the hell did all this talk about Sullinger come from? He is NOT the type of player we need.

[bwgood77]

JTrain, or anyone else, can we get another screen shot of the poll results posted in this thread so I can update it with a new poll? Thanks.