Moderators: bwgood77, lilfishi22, Qwigglez
WeekapaugGroove wrote: Beverly for 16 seems like a wild overpay for a guy coming off microfracture with only a year left on his contract. Hell if LA drafts a pg high they might just try to dump is contract for far less than that. I like beverly as a player but not at that price.
dantley4prez wrote:
Much as I want to be secure in picking Ayton, Doncic looks really good here. 6’8” guy who can hit open Euroleague threes (a little shorter than the NBA line), handle through traffic, make plays and post up.
Like I said, the defense is going to be better in the NBA, but he’s not a bust. He is, at worst, Lamar Odom.
If he takes the league by storm, I won’t be surprised. If he doesn’t live up to his potential in the first three years, I won’t be surprised at that, either.
bwgood77 wrote:WeekapaugGroove wrote:Beverly for 16 seems like a wild overpay for a guy coming off microfracture with only a year left on his contract. Hell if LA drafts a pg high they might just try to dump is contract for far less than that. I like beverly as a player but not at that price.DarkHawk wrote:Dunno if this was posted yet
https://www.brightsideofthesun.com/2018/6/17/17446504/if-the-phoenix-suns-go-big-which-point-guards-are-realistic-options-to-trade-for-on-draft-night-nba
I could see some of these as possible.
However, 2 of them I just don't understand.
CJ McCollum will cost more than what is noted in the article.
Also, the deal with the Nets....we give up a TON to get Dinwiddie?
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They also might not pick up his option if they think he won't be healthy or want the cap space. He may hit the FA market.
thamadkant wrote:dantley4prez wrote:
Much as I want to be secure in picking Ayton, Doncic looks really good here. 6’8” guy who can hit open Euroleague threes (a little shorter than the NBA line), handle through traffic, make plays and post up.
Like I said, the defense is going to be better in the NBA, but he’s not a bust. He is, at worst, Lamar Odom.
If he takes the league by storm, I won’t be surprised. If he doesn’t live up to his potential in the first three years, I won’t be surprised at that, either.
Let's call a spade a spade
I do think Doncic is good... But so is Ayton.
With that said... Doncic and other wing players will put up numbers all around the box score if they have high usage and ball possession.
Hakeem Olajuwon prime could join any team today but if he doesn't get the ball and have the coach set him up properly... Basically the team just uses him as a rebounder and a rim protector... He wouldn't put up epic numbers... He'd just be a really smooth version of Capela..
My point is... Doncic or even any other decent wing player would put up nice numbers more so than a big man of the big man is not used correctly... The big man doesn't have the role of controlling the ball... He will rely on the ball handlers to get him the ball.
Ayton... Could bust easily if Kokoskov use him incorrectly....
But if he is given enough plays and be part of the offensive scheme... He could also put up 20ppg easily....
Players like Doncic especially in euroleage... He is a star over there and golden boy status... He gets green lighted to handle the ball from end to end and his team will use him as main guy... You can send Towns or David over there and if they don't get the ball offensively... They'll just be rebounder and shot blockers.
We have to understand that wing players have plenty of opportunities to put up numbers and create plays.... Doncic is a gun but so is Ayton on the right system.
fromthetop321 wrote:I got Lebron number 1, he is also leading defensive player of the year. Curry's game still reminds me of Jeremy Lin to much.
dantley4prez wrote:bondom34 wrote:dantley4prez wrote:
The same can be said of the NCAA, Euroleague, and NBA. Different 3 pt line, different goaltending rules in Euroleague, different offense, different defense. They’re almost three different sports. Doncic’s success in the Euroleague is by no means a guarantee for NBA stardom. It’s promising, but it’s not a guarantee.
dantley4prez wrote:bondom34 wrote:dantley4prez wrote:
Doncic and Porzingis are as similar as Porzingis and Bender. They are not, nor have they ever, been comparable.
The same can be said of the NCAA, Euroleague, and NBA. Different 3 pt line, different goaltending rules in Euroleague, different offense, different defense. They’re almost three different sports. Doncic’s success in the Euroleague is by no means a guarantee for NBA stardom. It’s promising, but it’s not a guarantee.
We assumed development from Porzingis, but how much better can Doncic be? He’s been playing high level basketball for a long time. I know prodigies in other areas. They don’t necessarily get better. Maybe Doncic at 14 is Bender at 21. While Bender may never get to where Doncic is now, Doncic may have learned all he can. Sometimes prodigies think they know everything. Doncic may not be that open to criticism.
I have high expectations for him still, but I’m not as high on him as other people are.
Not sure what you mean, unless it's just play style. Doncic has been far better than KP ever was at a younger age in a bigger role on a better team. Comparing their Euro stats it's night and day, and Bender wasn't close to either of their levels.
And you're absolutely right, there's not a guarantee Doncic improves, but there's not a guarantee anyone does. Maybe Doncic doesn't. Maybe Ayton doesn't, maybe Young doesn't. It's on the player and staff at that point but I'd trust a kid who's shown great smarts on court to get better.
Doncic and Porzingis have different roles, different bodies, different responsibilities and different levels of experience. They’re not comparable just because they’re from the same continent.
thamadkant wrote:dantley4prez wrote:
Much as I want to be secure in picking Ayton, Doncic looks really good here. 6’8” guy who can hit open Euroleague threes (a little shorter than the NBA line), handle through traffic, make plays and post up.
Like I said, the defense is going to be better in the NBA, but he’s not a bust. He is, at worst, Lamar Odom.
If he takes the league by storm, I won’t be surprised. If he doesn’t live up to his potential in the first three years, I won’t be surprised at that, either.
Let's call a spade a spade
I do think Doncic is good... But so is Ayton.
With that said... Doncic and other wing players will put up numbers all around the box score if they have high usage and ball possession.
Hakeem Olajuwon prime could join any team today but if he doesn't get the ball and have the coach set him up properly... Basically the team just uses him as a rebounder and a rim protector... He wouldn't put up epic numbers... He'd just be a really smooth version of Capela..
My point is... Doncic or even any other decent wing player would put up nice numbers more so than a big man of the big man is not used correctly... The big man doesn't have the role of controlling the ball... He will rely on the ball handlers to get him the ball.
Ayton... Could bust easily if Kokoskov use him incorrectly....
But if he is given enough plays and be part of the offensive scheme... He could also put up 20ppg easily....
Players like Doncic especially in euroleage... He is a star over there and golden boy status... He gets green lighted to handle the ball from end to end and his team will use him as main guy... You can send Towns or David over there and if they don't get the ball offensively... They'll just be rebounder and shot blockers.
We have to understand that wing players have plenty of opportunities to put up numbers and create plays.... Doncic is a gun but so is Ayton on the right system.
Damkac wrote:dantley4prez wrote:bondom34 wrote:Not sure what you mean, unless it's just play style. Doncic has been far better than KP ever was at a younger age in a bigger role on a better team. Comparing their Euro stats it's night and day, and Bender wasn't close to either of their levels.
And you're absolutely right, there's not a guarantee Doncic improves, but there's not a guarantee anyone does. Maybe Doncic doesn't. Maybe Ayton doesn't, maybe Young doesn't. It's on the player and staff at that point but I'd trust a kid who's shown great smarts on court to get better.
Doncic and Porzingis have different roles, different bodies, different responsibilities and different levels of experience. They’re not comparable just because they’re from the same continent.
So why Doncic haters compare him to every bust from Europe in history?
TheLogician wrote:Damkac wrote:dantley4prez wrote:
Doncic and Porzingis have different roles, different bodies, different responsibilities and different levels of experience. They’re not comparable just because they’re from the same continent.
So why Doncic haters compare him to every bust from Europe in history?
It probably has to do with the insane amount of hype surrounding him. He played with the same club for six years, and while he delivered, there are concerns about his shooting, athleticism, point skills, and transition to the NBA. I don't think it's fair to compare him to busts but calling Doncic a "prodigy" and "wonderboy" should wait until he proves himself at the highest level of basketball.
TheLogician wrote:Also, I don't fault European fans for the hype at all. It's natural to be excited about a player you've watched excel for years. I'm talking about the major sports outlets like ESPN/Draft Express, SB Nation, Ringer, etc. These "draft analysts" want to build intrigue with updating mock drafts that drive visitors to their sites. FWIW, the vast majority of high school and college analysts have Ayton #1. Given Givony's most recent tweet that Doncic is sliding, it seems front offices feel similarly. It's really only a debate amongst fans, draft "experts," and international evaluators. This is significant since most high-end NBA talent comes from the HS/AAU/NCAA ranks.
Bjorpa wrote:TheLogician wrote:Damkac wrote:So why Doncic haters compare him to every bust from Europe in history?
It probably has to do with the insane amount of hype surrounding him. He played with the same club for six years, and while he delivered, there are concerns about his shooting, athleticism, point skills, and transition to the NBA. I don't think it's fair to compare him to busts but calling Doncic a "prodigy" and "wonderboy" should wait until he proves himself at the highest level of basketball.
None of the players in the draft have proved themselves.
Luka is the closest in that regard, having succeeded in the second highest level of basketball.
Bjorpa wrote:TheLogician wrote:Also, I don't fault European fans for the hype at all. It's natural to be excited about a player you've watched excel for years. I'm talking about the major sports outlets like ESPN/Draft Express, SB Nation, Ringer, etc. These "draft analysts" want to build intrigue with updating mock drafts that drive visitors to their sites. FWIW, the vast majority of high school and college analysts have Ayton #1. Given Givony's most recent tweet that Doncic is sliding, it seems front offices feel similarly. It's really only a debate amongst fans, draft "experts," and international evaluators. This is significant since most high-end NBA talent comes from the HS/AAU/NCAA ranks.
The draft analysts Like Givony, Kevin O'Connor, the staff at TheStepien, also need people to return to their sites.
If they hype unwarranted prospects people would stop valuing their opinion, so i feel your point is a bit simplistic.
I feel the difference between evaluators is more on what they value the most, just like with us. Some value build/athleticism the most (potential), some value production, some value shooting, defence or BBIQ. We all value a combination, but emphasize different traits.
TheLogician wrote:Bjorpa wrote:TheLogician wrote:
It probably has to do with the insane amount of hype surrounding him. He played with the same club for six years, and while he delivered, there are concerns about his shooting, athleticism, point skills, and transition to the NBA. I don't think it's fair to compare him to busts but calling Doncic a "prodigy" and "wonderboy" should wait until he proves himself at the highest level of basketball.
None of the players in the draft have proved themselves.
Luka is the closest in that regard, having succeeded in the second highest level of basketball.
Yeah, which is why the hype is nauseating. I understand his accomplishments, but context matters. He's not a prodigy until proves it in the NBA. It's like saying a teenager who wins a European chess competition is a prodigy but he hasn't even played grandmasters like Kasparov. I know he did well as a second option for Slovenia in EuroBasket, but it's still not the NBA and those concerns I mentioned still persist.
TheLogician wrote:Bjorpa wrote:TheLogician wrote:Also, I don't fault European fans for the hype at all. It's natural to be excited about a player you've watched excel for years. I'm talking about the major sports outlets like ESPN/Draft Express, SB Nation, Ringer, etc. These "draft analysts" want to build intrigue with updating mock drafts that drive visitors to their sites. FWIW, the vast majority of high school and college analysts have Ayton #1. Given Givony's most recent tweet that Doncic is sliding, it seems front offices feel similarly. It's really only a debate amongst fans, draft "experts," and international evaluators. This is significant since most high-end NBA talent comes from the HS/AAU/NCAA ranks.
The draft analysts Like Givony, Kevin O'Connor, the staff at TheStepien, also need people to return to their sites.
If they hype unwarranted prospects people would stop valuing their opinion, so i feel your point is a bit simplistic.
I feel the difference between evaluators is more on what they value the most, just like with us. Some value build/athleticism the most (potential), some value production, some value shooting, defence or BBIQ. We all value a combination, but emphasize different traits.
Those guys do hype unwarranted prospects every year and many fans don't value their opinions as a result. Again, I'm not saying Doncic doesn't deserve attention and appreciation. It's the over-the-top adulation from professionals that I'm criticizing.
kennydorglas wrote:Another red flag for Jahlil Ayton.