Free agency and trade ideas: Which wings do we go after this summer?

[Revived]

It’s crazy to think how much money Malcolm Brogdon has made himself with his play in the playoffs. He’s easily getting maxed now. And he’s worth it too cause he’s such a crazy high IQ basketball player who plays within the offense and doesn’t try to outdo himself.

If we offer him max it'll be hard to see the Bucks match that. Maybe they would work with us and take back Warren and Jackson. That wouldn't be a bad coup for Milwaukee. They add more depth at a bargain. Warren already familiar with Bledsoe.

Many Bucks fans expect them to match any offer for Brogdon. They see Giannis, Brogdon and Bledsoe as the nucleus.

Middleton is the guy who they don’t see worth retaining for at a high salary.

Brogdon on a max is probably slightly overpaid but at least he can play excellent minutes and is perfect for his role as a complimentary piece.

[Ghost of Kleine]

Definitely a lot of possabilities to be sure I think.

And at that point, If that were to happen, Then honestly, good for Conley. And I would then of course look at Lowry( But mainly for his expiring contract)

But with respect to Memphis, I honestly doubt that they'd be willing to take Hayward's 30 million at back, As their looking to go young and rebuild around picks and cap space.

And even though getting their pick back would be very tempting, I really believe that IF Boston misses out on Davis, AND Kyrie Irving does leave( he's definitely leaving!!!). They'll go in this direction.

A scenario that I think people haven't really considered yet! And that is......

That they'll use some of those picks and a player or two for Beal honestly.

For Beal, They'd offer something like:

The Sacramento kings pick/ the Memphis pick/ and Tatum/ Smart/ And a future Boston unprotected first.


If it's between Lowry and Conley, Then I'd honestly prefer Conley. As Lowry is already 33 yrs old.

Also Lowry also is said to have a somewhat sour and abrasive attitude. And he has yet to prove that he is close to the leader that Conley is, And has slightly worse stats than Conley too.


So with respect to those factors, I just don't feel that he's the right type of leader for our young team.


But having said that, His contract is definitely shorter, And even though he'd expire in 2020. The free agency in 2020 is fairly lousy.

The only players that are worth signing are unfortunately restricted too, For instance.........


- Ben Simmons ( restricted) would we offer a full max and hope that they don't match???

- Jamal Murray ( restricted) the same as above???

- Buddy Hield( Restricted).

- Anthony Davis( Player option). But at that point, Wouldn't he just either head to LA or New York???

Now if A.D. was willing to give us an early indication that he would sign with us, Then I'd definitely look at Lowry in order to clear space for him.

But not unless he indicated as such.

Ben Simmons is absolutely someone I'd offer the max to and ya philly might not match especially if they resign butler and tobias this summer. I'd even trade for him so we can offer him more then other teams.

Baring that though to me Conley is better then Lowry but as others have said he says he wants to play for a contender. If he doesnt mind spending the rest of his career teaching youngsters then why wouldn't he just do that Memphis? The team he spent his entire career on, where his family is, where he knows the entire organization-as opposed to packing up and heading to the other side of the country.

Lowry, if Toronto loses Kawhi just seems more tenable for us. We get him for 1 yr and hopefully he can pass on enough to Okobo and Melton to make them passable. Worse comes to worse, next yr we can grab one of the PGs that are coming out.

If Philly doesn't plan on giving Simmons a max then they should probably trade him this summer. I don't think it's any certain thing that both butler and Harris return but I do think they both fit embiid better than Simmons.


I can't see brogdon getting a max but I do think he gets a nice contract. Milwaukee probably keeps him no matter what. Their owners are hedge fund billionaires who just got a new arena partially paid for with public money. If they aren't willing to spend into to the tax to keep a contender together it's shameful honestly.

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Good point, I wonder though, IF both Middleton and Brogdon get Big offers( or paydays) Would that make either Mirotic or Brook Lopez more available?

[starbosa10]

I know people want to be relevant but don't think I'd like Conley for what it would cost especially with that contract

[Ghost of Kleine]

I know people want to be relevant but don't think I'd like Conley for what it would cost especially with that contract

The last 2 years of his contract would only be guaranteed for 22 million IF he plays in less than 55 games, If that helps negate the concerns over potential injury some?

And his expiring giving us the ability to go into 2021 free agency with over 30 million in cap space, Is also really enticing to me personally.

Considering the all star level unrestricted free agents that will be available in that summer, as well as Both Aytons' and Bridges extensions being due due at that time too.

https://www.spotrac.com/nba/memphis-grizzlies/mike-conley-2532/.

2020 Early Termination2020 $22,426,383 guaranteed, becomes fully guaranteed if plays 55 games in 2018-19 or 2019-20 (@EricPincus) [Triggered now fully guaranteed, 2/9/19]

[Phnxsports]

I understand the draft comes before FA and trades can be made, but for me the number one question right now is Oubre. Do we want him back or do we renounce? To me this decision impacts everything else.

[jredsaz]

can anyone fill me in on why is Garland considered a better prospect than White? White is more intriguing to me on paper for simply having much better size, been able to stay healthy so far and being not a Klutch client. Both have a scorer mentality but White had a whole season to prove he could be a capable Jamal Murry type lead guard that Garland wasn't able to yet due to injury. Feel that White is the you know what you get type like TJ, Murray and Buddy Hield but Garland is the high risk high gain type like JJ, Bender and Chriss and since going after those high risk high reward types have not been working out for suns so far maybe we should take a little approach this time and get the more sure things in White or Clarke

He was the #1 rated PG in the 2018 class going into college.

Out of all the high school Point Guards, he was rated as the best. He was so good that even though he only played 5 games in college before getting injured he STILL is a top 5 pick and above all other PG's not named Ja.

Think I like White better as a fit next to Booker. They were closely rated prospects out of high school.

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[jredsaz]

My realistic offseason plan

1. Draft Coby White and Mfiondu
2. Trade Tyler + Milwaukee 1st for Dragic
3. Sign Aminu, Kleber or Vonleh, to 3 yrs at 10.5m per
4. Sign Oubre to 5 yrs 70m total with declining salary
5. Sign Holmes to 3 yr 15m total
6. Sign Bender to MLE
7. Sign Crawford to vet min
8. Try to trade Jackson at trade deadline after giving him chance to increase his value

C - Ayton/Holmes/Mfiondu
PF - (Aminu, Kleber, of Vonleh)/Bender/Mfiondu
SF - Oubre/Warren/Jackson
SG - Book/Bridges/Crawford
PG - Dragic/Coby/Melton

FYI Johnson can't be traded back to Miami for a year. You'd have to find a 3rd team to make that deal.

I'm not sure I'd give up that bucks pick for a year of Goran. I know he was hurt last year so maybe that slowed him down but I didn't think he looked good when he was actually out there.

I don't mind you're other moves. Love the idea of grabbing Aminu.

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Think Aminu is going to cost closer to $15 per than $10.

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[lilfishi22]

Why would we need to trade picks in order to trade Jackson or Warren? There’s no way either of those are seen as bad contracts or even close. Both players have some value at least especially Warren.

I think there's a strong possibility that Jackson is a negative asset. He's young-ish and has some skill but in the two seasons playing SOLID minutes (25mpg and almost 2000 minutes per season), he's done very little. The problem isn't just that he's had another underwhelming season, it's that he's been worse than his rookie season.

And if he was a mid-lotto pick, getting paid in the $3-4m range, he might still have value as a cheap, young talent with potential but because he was the 4th pick, expectations are higher (hasn't come close to meeting them) and quite frankly, at $7m next season, that's essentially 80% of a non-tax payer MLE. Why would a team spend almost an entire MLE for a guy that's considered one of the worst (or most negative) player in the league last season? The problem is exacerbated by the fact is that by the end of the season with what improvements he's made, he still wasn't consistent nor really a positive.

[lilfishi22]

I love this because cap space is literally useless unless we are using it on a good player who we are fairly certain we will actually sign. I wouldn’t be against trading firsts to open up room for Kyrie or KD but if all we’re going to do is get a few mid level guys it’s not the right move. That’s a prime Vlade Divac move.

Which is exactly what this dude wants do. Use 1st round picks to dump TJ Warren and Josh Jackson so we can sign Jeff Green, Mike Muscala and Nik Stauskas. How stupid is that?

As opposed to just leaving the roster as is..... Because that's obviously carried us to a very impressive 19 wins???

I'm curious as to what your plan is for improving the team??

I'm just curious, as I've heard your version of constructive criticism , But no legitimate counter proposal.

I don't see the point of trading away positive assets (like the picks and TJ) in order to open up cap space for a player that in all honesty will not sign with the Suns even if you throw them a max deal plus some shady under the table stuff. You just don't salary dump valuable players like TJ. You just don't. Especially if the fallback moves to a failed bid for superstar talent is paying Warrick, Pietrus and Childress type of players MLE money. If you have to move him, you get an NBA player back in return.

Moving TJ for cap space would be like instead of using your hard earned arcade tickets to redeem a prize, you redeem tokens to play another game of chance.

[lilfishi22]

I know people want to be relevant but don't think I'd like Conley for what it would cost especially with that contract

Conley isn't going to catapult us anywhere but neither will basiaclly any realistic move we make. But if it can get us to play the right way, take Booker off the ball more often and have a real leader, a real extension of the coach on the floor, I think he's worth making a deal for to captain this ship that's full of inexperienced seaman

[lilfishi22]

I understand the draft comes before FA and trades can be made, but for me the number one question right now is Oubre. Do we want him back or do we renounce? To me this decision impacts everything else.

I don't think we'll renounce unless we're pretty deep in discussion for a legit FA. I think we'll try and work out a deal with him before free agency begins but if there's no deal signed then it's up to the market to price him, either within or out of our matching range.

[Ghost of Kleine]

Why would we need to trade picks in order to trade Jackson or Warren? There’s no way either of those are seen as bad contracts or even close. Both players have some value at least especially Warren.

I think there's a strong possibility that Jackson is a negative asset. He's young-ish and has some skill but in the two seasons playing SOLID minutes (25mpg and almost 2000 minutes per season), he's done very little. The problem isn't just that he's had another underwhelming season, it's that he's been worse than his rookie season.

And if he was a mid-lotto pick, getting paid in the $3-4m range, he might still have value as a cheap, young talent with potential but because he was the 4th pick, expectations are higher (hasn't come close to meeting them) and quite frankly, at $7m next season, that's essentially 80% of a non-tax payer MLE. Why would a team spend almost an entire MLE for a guy that's considered one of the worst (or most negative) player in the league last season? The problem is exacerbated by the fact is that by the end of the season with what improvements he's made, he still wasn't consistent nor really a positive.

Agreed,

Jackson is likely percieved as negative value, due to his inconsistent play on the court, and even further devalued by his history of poor decision making off of the court.

And Warren, despite his increased shooting percentages from three, is perceived as only slightly better than neutral.

This is due to his inability or unwillingness to play defense, his tendency to have tunnel vision, and above all, his inability to stay healthy and actually see the court.

These are factors that diminish his value in the eyes of prospective trade partners. If unsure of his percieved trade value, just enquire on the trade board. You might end up disappointed though.

[bwgood77]

I know people want to be relevant but don't think I'd like Conley for what it would cost especially with that contract

The last 2 years of his contract would only be guaranteed for 22 million IF he plays in less than 55 games, If that helps negate the concerns over potential injury some?

And his expiring giving us the ability to go into 2021 free agency with over 30 million in cap space, Is also really enticing to me personally.

Considering the all star level unrestricted free agents that will be available in that summer, as well as Both Aytons' and Bridges extensions being due due at that time too.

https://www.spotrac.com/nba/memphis-grizzlies/mike-conley-2532/.

2020 Early Termination2020 $22,426,383 guaranteed, becomes fully guaranteed if plays 55 games in 2018-19 or 2019-20 (@EricPincus) [Triggered now fully guaranteed, 2/9/19]

You see that little note at the very end of your quote that said his contract was fully guaranteed on 2/9/19 since he played his 55th game in the 18-19 season that day?

[WeekapaugGroove]

I don't think highly of Jackson but I doubt they would have to attach an asset to move him nor should they because worst case scenario you could just waive and stretch him and gain some space. But ultimately some team like Atlanta with a bunch of space would probably take him for free and see if they can turn him around. These top picks always get multiple chances.

Warren is hard to guage because if it weren't for the injuries he would have decent trade value but the track record of injuries is hard to ignore. Id guess he still has some value but I wouldn't expect a ton.

I expect oubre to return. He's not a perfect player but he does some good things and at his age still has some growth potential left. But most importantly he's a guy who embraced being here and is liked by his teammates. For a downtrodden franchise that does matter. So if you let him walk it better be for a real upgrade or it could cause some problems with the players who remain.

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[lilfishi22]

Why would we need to trade picks in order to trade Jackson or Warren? There’s no way either of those are seen as bad contracts or even close. Both players have some value at least especially Warren.

I think there's a strong possibility that Jackson is a negative asset. He's young-ish and has some skill but in the two seasons playing SOLID minutes (25mpg and almost 2000 minutes per season), he's done very little. The problem isn't just that he's had another underwhelming season, it's that he's been worse than his rookie season.

And if he was a mid-lotto pick, getting paid in the $3-4m range, he might still have value as a cheap, young talent with potential but because he was the 4th pick, expectations are higher (hasn't come close to meeting them) and quite frankly, at $7m next season, that's essentially 80% of a non-tax payer MLE. Why would a team spend almost an entire MLE for a guy that's considered one of the worst (or most negative) player in the league last season? The problem is exacerbated by the fact is that by the end of the season with what improvements he's made, he still wasn't consistent nor really a positive.

Agreed,

Jackson is likely percieved as negative value, due to his inconsistent play on the court, and even further devalued by his history of poor decision making off of the court.

And Warren, despite his increased shooting percentages from three, is perceived as only slightly better than neutral.

This is due to his inability or unwillingness to play defense, his tendency to have tunnel vision, and above all, his inability to stay healthy and actually see the court.

These are factors that diminish his value in the eyes of prospective trade partners. If unsure of his percieved trade value, just enquire on the trade board. You might end up disappointed though.

I disagree on TJ. At the very least, he's a valuable 6th man which in this league of pace and space, is a valuable asset to bring off the bench. When you're the 1st man off the bench, things like defense is kind of overlooked if you're able to put points up on the board. Jamal Crawford has won the 6MOY title like 3 times and Lou has won it twice, neither of them play a lick of defense but they are good at what they do off the bench. I just think that he's a really good spark off the bench and with quite a cap friendly deal, I think he's a valuable player. His injury history is a bit concerning so I can see how he'll lose some value there.

[Ghost of Kleine]

I know people want to be relevant but don't think I'd like Conley for what it would cost especially with that contract

The last 2 years of his contract would only be guaranteed for 22 million IF he plays in less than 55 games, If that helps negate the concerns over potential injury some?

And his expiring giving us the ability to go into 2021 free agency with over 30 million in cap space, Is also really enticing to me personally.

Considering the all star level unrestricted free agents that will be available in that summer, as well as Both Aytons' and Bridges extensions being due due at that time too.

https://www.spotrac.com/nba/memphis-grizzlies/mike-conley-2532/.

2020 Early Termination2020 $22,426,383 guaranteed, becomes fully guaranteed if plays 55 games in 2018-19 or 2019-20 (@EricPincus) [Triggered now fully guaranteed, 2/9/19]

You see that little note at the very end of your quote that said his contract was fully guaranteed on 2/9/19 since he played his 55th game in the 18-19 season that day?

My bad , But thank you for pointing out that error on my part.

Irregardless of his contract concerns though, The positive aspect of this is in that he managed to play in 70 games last season.

https://www.rotowire.com/basketball/player.php?id=2813 .


So if that's any kind of indicator of near what we can expect him to play this year, Then that along with the overall aspects of what he would most definitely bring to our team in terms of leadership.

Along with production, veteran experience, culture change ( mindset) and eventually a huge expiring, Whilst really only costing us only two seasons at the most. Would again balance out the cost I'd wager.

[lilfishi22]

I don't think highly of Jackson but I doubt they would have to attach an asset to move him nor should they because worst case scenario you could just waive and stretch him and gain some space. But ultimately some team like Atlanta with a bunch of space would probably take him for free and see if they can turn him around. These top picks always get multiple chances.

Warren is hard to guage because if it weren't for the injuries he would have decent trade value but the track record of injuries is hard to ignore. Id guess he still has some value but I wouldn't expect a ton.

I expect oubre to return. He's not a perfect player but he does some good things and at his age still has some growth potential left. But most importantly he's a guy who embraced being here and is liked by his teammates. For a downtrodden franchise that does matter. So if you let him walk it better be for a real upgrade or it could cause some problems with the players who remain.

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His injury history will certainly knock his trade value down a notch or two but being able to score at near 50FG% his whole career without a legit PG since last year is a skill in itself. Adding that 3pt shot helps a ton too imo. And if you're looking for a 6th man, I think he fits the bill.

I don't think he's super valuable but he certainly has way more value than a salary dump candidate

[Ghost of Kleine]

I think there's a strong possibility that Jackson is a negative asset. He's young-ish and has some skill but in the two seasons playing SOLID minutes (25mpg and almost 2000 minutes per season), he's done very little. The problem isn't just that he's had another underwhelming season, it's that he's been worse than his rookie season.

And if he was a mid-lotto pick, getting paid in the $3-4m range, he might still have value as a cheap, young talent with potential but because he was the 4th pick, expectations are higher (hasn't come close to meeting them) and quite frankly, at $7m next season, that's essentially 80% of a non-tax payer MLE. Why would a team spend almost an entire MLE for a guy that's considered one of the worst (or most negative) player in the league last season? The problem is exacerbated by the fact is that by the end of the season with what improvements he's made, he still wasn't consistent nor really a positive.

Agreed,

Jackson is likely percieved as negative value, due to his inconsistent play on the court, and even further devalued by his history of poor decision making off of the court.

And Warren, despite his increased shooting percentages from three, is perceived as only slightly better than neutral.

This is due to his inability or unwillingness to play defense, his tendency to have tunnel vision, and above all, his inability to stay healthy and actually see the court.

These are factors that diminish his value in the eyes of prospective trade partners. If unsure of his percieved trade value, just enquire on the trade board. You might end up disappointed though.

I disagree on TJ. At the very least, he's a valuable 6th man which in this league of pace and space, is a valuable asset to bring off the bench. When you're the 1st man off the bench, things like defense is kind of overlooked if you're able to put points up on the board. Jamal Crawford has won the 6MOY title like 3 times and Lou has won it twice, neither of them play a lick of defense but they are good at what they do off the bench. I just think that he's a really good spark off the bench and with quite a cap friendly deal, I think he's a valuable player. His injury history is a bit concerning so I can see how he'll lose some value there.

Noted, I'm just going off of what others have said about how they perceive his perspective value, When I enquired as to how other teams viewed his percieved value on the trade board.

As in terms of his fit with other teams, and with consideration to his production and contract value of course.

Again, it's his injury history that unfortunately diminishes his overall value the most. The other issues in his game, were just additional factors that were mentioned as further decreasing his value in a trade or with respect to his value to their respective teams.

[bwgood77]

Why would we need to trade picks in order to trade Jackson or Warren? There’s no way either of those are seen as bad contracts or even close. Both players have some value at least especially Warren.

I think there's a strong possibility that Jackson is a negative asset. He's young-ish and has some skill but in the two seasons playing SOLID minutes (25mpg and almost 2000 minutes per season), he's done very little. The problem isn't just that he's had another underwhelming season, it's that he's been worse than his rookie season.

And if he was a mid-lotto pick, getting paid in the $3-4m range, he might still have value as a cheap, young talent with potential but because he was the 4th pick, expectations are higher (hasn't come close to meeting them) and quite frankly, at $7m next season, that's essentially 80% of a non-tax payer MLE. Why would a team spend almost an entire MLE for a guy that's considered one of the worst (or most negative) player in the league last season? The problem is exacerbated by the fact is that by the end of the season with what improvements he's made, he still wasn't consistent nor really a positive.

Yeah, you have to ask yourself how many teams would sign Jackson this summer for 2 years $16 million if they had the cap space. All of them? Then you have positive value. Half of them? Then neutral. Less than half? Less than neutral value. Very few or none? Quite negative.

My guess is it is probably closer to very few than a little less than half.

However, all it takes is 1 team, or especially 2-3 that want to take a chance which would potentially keep it at neutral.

[Ghost of Kleine]

Which is exactly what this dude wants do. Use 1st round picks to dump TJ Warren and Josh Jackson so we can sign Jeff Green, Mike Muscala and Nik Stauskas. How stupid is that?

As opposed to just leaving the roster as is..... Because that's obviously carried us to a very impressive 19 wins???

I'm curious as to what your plan is for improving the team??

I'm just curious, as I've heard your version of constructive criticism , But no legitimate counter proposal.

I don't see the point of trading away positive assets (like the picks and TJ) in order to open up cap space for a player that in all honesty will not sign with the Suns even if you throw them a max deal plus some shady under the table stuff. You just don't salary dump valuable players like TJ. You just don't. Especially if the fallback moves to a failed bid for superstar talent is paying Warrick, Pietrus and Childress type of players MLE money. If you have to move him, you get an NBA player back in return.

Moving TJ for cap space would be like instead of using your hard earned arcade tickets to redeem a prize, you redeem tokens to play another game of chance.

I respect your perspective, I really do.

But it's important to consider two things:

1- With respect to Warren's value, Just because we see his value as being fair to high, Doesn't mean other teams share that perspective of his value.

In being so bad for so long, We've become enamored as fans with the slightest sign of positive progression with our players.

However to other teams, it's viewed as us overvaluing our own players. Which of course, All teams are guilty of to some degree.

And Jackson as we know, Is perceived to have negative value. Due to his statistical inconsistency. As well as his really poor judgment off the court too.

So with respect to those factors, What teams are expected to take these players, without some modicum of compensation?

2- Also having trade proposals, even to the point of setting the framework of a potential trade ( with which to explore the possibilities) does not automatically mean that we'd head into free agency without a tangible plan.

It's quite possible that just as Jones himself had stated a while back, That we already have specific free agent targets ( 5 to be precise per his comments).

So obviously he'd gauge the targeted free agents level of interest in coming here before fully going through with any trade to create cap space.

And honestly, at any point in my proposal did I mention picks coming back? No, because I said we'd be able to head into free agency with $$ amount of cap space.

That can obviously happen within the first few days of free agency, which logically would also be the very soonest that Griffin would entertain any such proposals for Davis anyways. ( As Boston can't even field a contending offer before then, due to the " Rose rule"). So everyone can relax..........

Lastly, I'd have to believe that Jones wouldn't just throw money at players as mediocre as what Warrick , Childress, and Pietrus are. Again, He'd as he's already stated, have specific targets in mind, beforehand.

I mean it's not like Sarver is running our free agency decisions now is it???