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Offseason Thread 6: The Not So Mexican Stand-off Continues

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Re: Offseason Thread 6: The Not So Mexican Stand-off Continu 

Post#961 » by guest81 » Sat Sep 20, 2014 7:25 pm

suns91fan wrote:
dgwdum wrote:
JJ13 wrote:
Wolves got Wiggins, Thad and Bennett for Love (max)...so why would Wiggins for Bledsoe mean Bledsoe is max?

The point I was trying to make is that wiggins was good enough to get love and we know bledsoe is nowhere near as good as love. So if someone is only willing to trade bledsoe for wiggins than why not just give bledsoe the max since that particular poster values him so much.


Bledsoe is nowhere near as good as Love? That's highly debatable. Bledsoe is a two-way player, Love is not. I'll leave it at that.


Maybe it's a debate if you put it in those terms. In actuality, D is the only thing Bledsoe has over Love. Love is better at everything else
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Re: Offseason Thread 6: The Not So Mexican Stand-off Continu 

Post#962 » by GOGI_4_MVP » Sat Sep 20, 2014 7:37 pm

guest81 wrote:
suns91fan wrote:
dgwdum wrote:The point I was trying to make is that wiggins was good enough to get love and we know bledsoe is nowhere near as good as love. So if someone is only willing to trade bledsoe for wiggins than why not just give bledsoe the max since that particular poster values him so much.


Bledsoe is nowhere near as good as Love? That's highly debatable. Bledsoe is a two-way player, Love is not. I'll leave it at that.


Maybe it's a debate if you put it in those terms. In actuality, D is the only thing Bledsoe has over Love. Love is better at everything else


Love is better at rebounding....I would say they are equally good scorers, sad thing is Bledsoe is probably a better shot blocker than Love.
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Re: Offseason Thread 6: The Not So Mexican Stand-off Continu 

Post#963 » by guest81 » Sat Sep 20, 2014 7:46 pm

GOGI_4_MVP wrote:
guest81 wrote:
suns91fan wrote:
Bledsoe is nowhere near as good as Love? That's highly debatable. Bledsoe is a two-way player, Love is not. I'll leave it at that.


Maybe it's a debate if you put it in those terms. In actuality, D is the only thing Bledsoe has over Love. Love is better at everything else


Love is better at rebounding....I would say they are equally good scorers, sad thing is Bledsoe is probably a better shot blocker than Love.


Well Love scored about 10 more points a game then Bledsoe, so he's a much better scorer. He's a better 3 point shooter and FT shooter.

He's a better rebounder but of course were talking about a forward compared to a guard.

But also Bledsoe only avg 1 more assist then Love per game, and that's with the ball in his hands a lot more then Love.

Also no Bledsoe isn't a better shot blocker
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Re: Offseason Thread 6: The Not So Mexican Stand-off Continu 

Post#964 » by RunDogGun » Sat Sep 20, 2014 7:57 pm

guest81 wrote:
GOGI_4_MVP wrote:
guest81 wrote:
Maybe it's a debate if you put it in those terms. In actuality, D is the only thing Bledsoe has over Love. Love is better at everything else


Love is better at rebounding....I would say they are equally good scorers, sad thing is Bledsoe is probably a better shot blocker than Love.


Well Love scored about 10 more points a game then Bledsoe, so he's a much better scorer. He's a better 3 point shooter and FT shooter.

He's a better rebounder but of course were talking about a forward compared to a guard.

But also Bledsoe only avg 1 more assist then Love per game, and that's with the ball in his hands a lot more then Love.

Also no Bledsoe isn't a better shot blocker

Love took six more shots than Bledsoe, I would hope he would score more.

Oddly Bledsoe did block better last year, and they average career is the same. :o
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Re: Offseason Thread 6: The Not So Mexican Stand-off Continu 

Post#965 » by BobbieL » Sat Sep 20, 2014 10:20 pm

ginobiliflops wrote:I'd take Pek/Lavine just to see the crybaby go.


Problem is - Suns have many bodies under contract, looks like 13 already. So for any deal, Randolph would probably have to go back to make it a 3 for 2

Second, this is just a ploy by the agent team to make Phoenix look bad.

Present the world you offer Rich Paul. Present the world what the Twolves would trade for Bledsoe

Its time LeBron - who played GM for the Cavs and Heat - shows his cards and presents to the world what the trade would be. Instead of just hiding behind Brian Windbag and using that sycophant as your mouth piece to the world. Put the cards on the table!!

To me - the only trade that makes sense -since the Twolves are not giving Wiggins is Bledsoe/Shavlik for Gorgui, Barea, Lavine, Martin and first round draft pick in 2016 for Bledsoe. Suns already have enough picks in 2015. They can have back their lousy two second rounders. Barea is expiring. Martins contract stinks - Gorgui is cheap, Lavine has some upside

And that is if you really just want to rid yourself of Bledsoe. So, this deal is ONLY if the Suns are ready to be done with Bledsoe. I don't want Pekovic or Thaddeus
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Re: Offseason Thread 6: The Not So Mexican Stand-off Continu 

Post#966 » by Revived » Sat Sep 20, 2014 10:24 pm

I would rather lose Bledsoe for nothing than trade him for Minnesota's trash.

I realize Wiggins is untouchable but Dieng and Lavine have to be included to get Bledsoe.

Lavine, Dieng, protection off the T-Wolves pick that we own for Bledsoe and last year's #5 pick Len.
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Re: Offseason Thread 6: The Not So Mexican Stand-off Continu 

Post#967 » by Saberestar » Sat Sep 20, 2014 10:31 pm

SF88 wrote:I would rather lose Bledsoe for nothing than trade him for Minnesota's trash.

I realize Wiggins is untouchable but Dieng and Lavine have to be included to get Bledsoe.

Lavine, Dieng, protection off the T-Wolves pick that we own for Bledsoe and last year's #5 pick Len.

I wouldn't trade Len ...with Shavlik Randolph it would be a fair deal for both sides, probably we have to lower the protection to Top 5 only. An unprotected pick is very valuable.
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Re: Offseason Thread 6: The Not So Mexican Stand-off Continu 

Post#968 » by GOGI_4_MVP » Sat Sep 20, 2014 10:50 pm

guest81 wrote:
GOGI_4_MVP wrote:
guest81 wrote:
Maybe it's a debate if you put it in those terms. In actuality, D is the only thing Bledsoe has over Love. Love is better at everything else


Love is better at rebounding....I would say they are equally good scorers, sad thing is Bledsoe is probably a better shot blocker than Love.


Well Love scored about 10 more points a game then Bledsoe, so he's a much better scorer. He's a better 3 point shooter and FT shooter.

He's a better rebounder but of course were talking about a forward compared to a guard.

But also Bledsoe only avg 1 more assist then Love per game, and that's with the ball in his hands a lot more then Love.

Also no Bledsoe isn't a better shot blocker


Love averaged more points on a bad Minnesota team where he was the clear cut go to guy. Bledsoe shared touches with Dragic and the rest of a suns time who often played through the guy that was hot at the moment. Bledsoe also didn't necessarily have the ball in his hands more than Love either, Dragic was also a primary ball handler so you trying to argue that Love is also a better passer than Bledsoe doesn't really make sense. As far as blocks go I'm pretty sure if you look their numbers up they will be pretty close, but with your logic that shouldn't matter because Bledsoe is a guard and not a forward so naturally Love should be the better shot blocker :roll: let's see what type of numbers K love puts up being the 3rd option on the Cavs.
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Re: Offseason Thread 6: The Not So Mexican Stand-off Continu 

Post#969 » by Jdiddy701 » Sat Sep 20, 2014 10:54 pm

Why can't Bledsoe just love Phoenix and settle for what he's worth?
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Re: Offseason Thread 6: The Not So Mexican Stand-off Continu 

Post#970 » by BobbieL » Sat Sep 20, 2014 10:59 pm

Jdiddy701 wrote:Why can't Bledsoe just love Phoenix and settle for what he's worth?



His agent is in over his head and Bledsoe doesn't see this.

The market is defining the price of Bledsoe. And if his price were in the low 50's range for 4 years - he would probably be signed.

Again, what Bledsoe and Paul failed to realize is that the most they were ever going to get was 4/63. And that is if ANOTHER team offered Bledsoe that contract. The Suns were never going 5/84. And maybe the Suns match 4/63 or take an S&T.

Bledsoe, Paul, Termini and LeBron have not understand simple economics, supply/demand, market, etc.

I do not begrudge Bledsoe one thing that on July 1 he has a sign that says "if not 5/84, keep walking." And he held that sign every day for two weeks.

Now, maybe on July 15 when players have signed and the market has changed - he needed to adjust. Termini, Paul and LeBron didn't. If Bledsoe takes the QO - he is an idiot.

I wish Minnesota had enough to do a sign and trade. But they really don't. I am done with Bledsoe
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Re: Offseason Thread 6: The Not So Mexican Stand-off Continu 

Post#971 » by Saberestar » Sat Sep 20, 2014 11:11 pm

They like Bledsoe. But yeah, long-shot. Don't think it's a leverage ploy. They legitimately like him. A lot.

https://mobile.twitter.com/DarrenWolfson
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Re: Offseason Thread 6: The Not So Mexican Stand-off Continu 

Post#972 » by Saberestar » Sat Sep 20, 2014 11:15 pm

I think that if Minnesota are reluctant to trade Wiggins or even Dieng&Lavine package, the best option is to find a third team that really wants Rubio and grab a good player for that team.
Hopefully McDonough is working his magic.
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Re: Offseason Thread 6: The Not So Mexican Stand-off Continu 

Post#973 » by Christine-In-AZ » Sat Sep 20, 2014 11:17 pm

It's funny, and I'll admit I'm only a casual NFL fan...I don't delve into the nuts and bolts anywhere to the degrees of the NBA, so someone correct me if I'm wrong, but!...

If Bledsoe was a young and very promising say? Cardinal DB or receiver, this "situation" would almost be "par for the course", S.O.P. for a contract renewal or extension a couple of weeks before an NFL training camp opening. Am I right NFL fans? Again, you tell me.

I know the salary ins and outs of the NBA v. the NFL are very, very different. and therein may be the reason why so many are kinda freaking out on this curious Bledsoe situation.

IDK. Just a thought I wanted to post.

Go Cards! It's a big one tomorrow.
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Re: Offseason Thread 6: The Not So Mexican Stand-off Continu 

Post#974 » by Christine-In-AZ » Sat Sep 20, 2014 11:45 pm

BobbieL wrote:
Jdiddy701 wrote:Why can't Bledsoe just love Phoenix and settle for what he's worth?



His agent is in over his head and Bledsoe doesn't see this.

The market is defining the price of Bledsoe. And if his price were in the low 50's range for 4 years - he would probably be signed.

Again, what Bledsoe and Paul failed to realize is that the most they were ever going to get was 4/63. And that is if ANOTHER team offered Bledsoe that contract. The Suns were never going 5/84. And maybe the Suns match 4/63 or take an S&T.

Bledsoe, Paul, Termini and LeBron have not understand simple economics, supply/demand, market, etc.

I do not begrudge Bledsoe one thing that on July 1 he has a sign that says "if not 5/84, keep walking." And he held that sign every day for two weeks.

Now, maybe on July 15 when players have signed and the market has changed - he needed to adjust. Termini, Paul and LeBron didn't. If Bledsoe takes the QO - he is an idiot.

I wish Minnesota had enough to do a sign and trade. But they really don't. I am done with Bledsoe


So are you saying, trying to get 15 million dollars more over 4 years isn't worth trying for all the way to the bitter end, even if it's probably a long shot?

15 million dollars...that's one additional "max" year in a sense
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Re: Offseason Thread 6: The Not So Mexican Stand-off Continu 

Post#975 » by Sunsdeuce » Sat Sep 20, 2014 11:52 pm

ChrisInAZ wrote:It's funny, and I'll admit I'm only a casual NFL fan...I don't delve into the nuts and bolts anywhere to the degrees of the NBA, so someone correct me if I'm wrong, but!...

If Bledsoe was a young and very promising say? Cardinal DB or receiver, this "situation" would almost be "par for the course", S.O.P. for a contract renewal or extension a couple of weeks before an NFL training camp opening. Am I right NFL fans? Again, you tell me.

I know the salary ins and outs of the NBA v. the NFL are very, very different. and therein may be the reason why so many are kinda freaking out on this curious Bledsoe situation.

IDK. Just a thought I wanted to post.

Go Cards! It's a big one tomorrow.

Basically, you can redo or extend a contract at anytime. And they are usually done before training camp starts. If a player has, for example, two years left on the current contract, the player can sign an extension or rework their deal.

The one thing I wish the nba would adapt which the nfl has right, is the way contracts are done. Basically only certain amount of money is guaranteed, not the life of the contract. Players can get cut if they aren't performing.


And hell yes GO Cards. F U 9ers fans for trying to invade UofP stadium tomorrow.


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Offseason Thread 6: The Not So Mexican Stand-off Continues 

Post#976 » by Sunsdeuce » Sat Sep 20, 2014 11:55 pm

Saberestar wrote:
They like Bledsoe. But yeah, long-shot. Don't think it's a leverage ploy. They legitimately like him. A lot.

https://mobile.twitter.com/DarrenWolfson

So Minnesota is like, we really like Bledsoe, but not that much (ain't giving up our assets).

Things we know:
1) Bledsoe is gone within a year. Whether through a trade or letting him walk after a year. (Your fooling yourself if you think he has a long term future with the suns).

2) Minnesota really wants Bledsoe but not a the cost of their "true" assets.

3) rich Paul really messed this process up badly.

4) Bledsoe is taking the QO offer if he isn't traded.

Did I miss anything?



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Re: Offseason Thread 6: The Not So Mexican Stand-off Continu 

Post#977 » by Jdiddy701 » Sun Sep 21, 2014 12:07 am

Sorry if brought up already but I was watching a video on Tyler Ennis on his twitter page and there was a part in the video where Steve Nash asked Ennis if he had a place to stay in Phoenix and offered living in Nash's house. I love Steve. I hope he returns one day with a job in Phoenix.
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Re: Offseason Thread 6: The Not So Mexican Stand-off Continu 

Post#978 » by NavLDO » Sun Sep 21, 2014 12:20 am

I know this has been brought up before, but now as we are getting close...

...on 30 Sep, do the Suns offer a 5 year deal that would equal the max that Bledsoe could get if he took the QO for $3.7M, then signed a 4 year Max next year with another team in UFA? Will it still be about 4yr/$63M? So basically we offer a 5 year $67M deal? Or heck, make it 5yr/$68M just to ensure there is no possible scenario he could make more if he took the QO. Then, if he refuses that, then we know it's that he doesn't want to be in PHX.

I know we don't need to bid against ourselves, and that is still a hefty price to pay for a guy that we don't know will be healthy for the life of a contract, but I think we are all pretty much in agreement that if he is healthy, he'd play to the level worthy of the contract, right?

I'm not necessarily advocating for this type of move, but it would probably be better than a one year rental, right? Or if they are concerned about the length, make it a 4yr/$56M. Of course, they'd make it declining to the maximum extent possible, to facilitate a trade in a couple of years if we need to offload his contract because he is, in fact, injury prone.

What are your thoughts as to what actually happens?

a) We S&T before the deadline...

b) We sign him to a Max contract...

c) We meet somewhere in between as mentioned above...

d) We don't budge and he caves and signs for $48M...

e) We don't budge and he signs the QO...
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Re: Offseason Thread 6: The Not So Mexican Stand-off Continu 

Post#979 » by SunsFanSSOL » Sun Sep 21, 2014 12:28 am

Mark Termini represents Earl Barron. The Suns signed Earl Barron to play in training camp, perhaps that was a ploy to talk about Bledsoe?
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Re: Offseason Thread 6: The Not So Mexican Stand-off Continu 

Post#980 » by ShawnBronald » Sun Sep 21, 2014 12:47 am

Saberestar wrote:
They like Bledsoe. But yeah, long-shot. Don't think it's a leverage ploy. They legitimately like him. A lot.

https://mobile.twitter.com/DarrenWolfson


And the Suns legitimately like Andrew Wiggins. A lot.

Hhm.... seems like a great match to me! :lol:

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