Suns Offseason Thread 4: Where's Terrence Williams?

[Jdiddy701]

^^ LOL


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[Mulhollanddrive]

Morris, Tucker, Goodwin, Weems, Teletovic, Booker, Price, Lauer, Cleveland pick, Miami pick, Miami pick, Phoenix pick.

If hypothetically we traded out 12 pieces for Ibaka.

The deal would seem ridiciulous in isolation, but I would argue it makes us a better team with 15m gained to fill spots.

Bledsoe (14), Knight (14), SF, Ibaka (12), Chandler (13)
PG, SG, Warren (2), PF, Len (4)

Keep in mind we have given up Morris, Bullock, Wright, Green, Smith, Barbosa and first rounders like Marshall and Ennis for basically nothing. How much are all those pieces really worth?

[saintEscaton]

What the ****? I think you deserve a suspension for that horrible trade proposal

For us? OKC wouldn't do it, and I would want some protection on that pick, but what makes it horrible for us? Serge does everything you want in a PF. Blocks shots and can hit the 3. He would probably be about the best target we could go after.

We are trading away Goodwin who hasn't even developed nor had consistent playing time. Then apparently if we want to keep Goodwin who is a throw in we can replace him with Bogdan who is apparently also trash.

Why not just trade away Warren and Booker? Who needs youth when we can get Serge **** Ibaka who this franchise could have drafted themselves years ago

Look we can all play Captain Hindsight is 20/20 but the reality is we didn't take him even when the opportunity presented itself. Who's to say Kerr would have taken a flier on Ibaka who might have not even been on his radar if we had kept our own pick and never done the KT trade? Just going by the reasoning that we happened to find a late round gem in Dragic makes us posses a great international scouting department when he was our first notable foreign draftee in recent memory(excluding Gortat)?

Anyways either one of Archie or Bogdan has to eventually go to clear the backcourt logjam and I'd wager its Archie judging by the way he has been handled and his limited opportunities has something to do with him not endearing himself to the good graces of the coaching staff possibly due to his reckless abandon. I think Archie is personally the most overhyped youngin on this board and no way should he be a dealbreaker when you're getting back a legitimate two-way PF who is an established premiere rim protector and also FYI not a day older than Kieff. That deal would never happen and is straightup highway robbery. IF Presti inexplicably lost his mind andareed you'd be an idiot not to run with it.

Bogdan can actually shoot worth a damn and has proven to be a capable lead ballhandler who can take on facilitating duties in limited capacity with a clearly defined role as a prototypical SG who could possibly be our Bellinelli coming off the bench. (Anways Euroleague competion> DLeague/SummerLeague hands down and is at this point he is a more polished product). Archie I feel has all the makings of becoming another unfulfilled positionless wing talent who banks solely on his freakish athleticism/ bread n' buttter slashing abilities to punch himself a ticket to the line and still needs additional upper body strength to consistently finish through contact and a respectable FT% to capitalized on charity trips to even be a useful one trick pony. ( Learning to play off screens/be less ball dominant/ developing a reliable pull up jumper off the dribble and a mechanically steady set shot is a whole different story. He eliminated most of the hitch but still tends to fade or lean away even when uncontested). Hell I think if he doesn't progress this year and prove his worth Booker might have a shot to edge him out in the rotation sooner than later

[TeamTragic]

We are trading away Goodwin who hasn't even developed nor had consistent playing time. Then apparently if we want to keep Goodwin who is a throw in we can replace him with Bogdan who is apparently also trash.

Why not just trade away Warren and Booker? Who needs youth when we can get Serge **** Ibaka who this franchise could have drafted themselves years ago

Ok, so Goodwin is the piece you couldn't part with for Ibaka. Got it.

I have an issue with including either Goodwin and/or Bogdan in any trade unless we get a star player in return. I have high expectations from from Goodwin and think Bogdan was a great pick by McD.

Besides if Durant leaves OKC they will need to rebuild and Ibaka might be expendable in which case Kieff (great contract)/Tucker (flippable asset)/picks (youth potential) would be a good offer depending on if they are rebuilding around Westbrook/Kanter/Waiters.

Morris, Tucker, Goodwin, Weems, Teletovic, Booker, Price, Lauer, Cleveland pick, Miami pick, Miami pick, Phoenix pick.

If hypothetically we traded out 12 pieces for Ibaka.

The deal would seem ridiciulous in isolation, but I would argue it makes us a better team with 15m gained to fill spots.

Bledsoe (14), Knight (14), SF, Ibaka (12), Chandler (13)
PG, SG, Warren (2), PF, Len (4)

Keep in mind we have given up Morris, Bullock, Wright, Green, Smith, Barbosa and first rounders like Marshall and Ennis for basically nothing. How much are all those pieces really worth?

Green text?

[Mulhollanddrive]

If teams didn't trade late picks (who have either limited or no exposed form) unless it was for All-Stars, you're not going to improve through trades.

[letsgosuns]

The Suns young players are only available if the return is for a superstar, and I mean a true superstar, and not someone that is on the wrong side of 30 either. Unfortunately for the Suns, none of those players are available. If one does become available, then I would say the Suns would consider trading anyone, but who knows what is going to happen.

And Serge Ibaka? Yeah I would trade Morris and/or Tucker for him but no one else. He ain't close to a superstar. Why would you ever consider trading a bunch of young talent for him. Electing to pay him instead of James Harden is probably the worst move I have ever seen a gm make. Role playing, defensive power forwards like Ibaka can be found throughout the league. Harden is a top five player in basketball. I still cannot believe they chose Ibaka over Harden when they could have signed someone or drafted someone to replace Ibaka.

[TeamTragic]

The Suns young players are only available if the return is for a superstar, and I mean a true superstar, and not someone that is on the wrong side of 30 either. Unfortunately for the Suns, none of those players are available. If one does become available, then I would say the Suns would consider trading anyone, but who knows what is going to happen.

And Serge Ibaka? Yeah I would trade Morris and/or Tucker for him but no one else. He ain't close to a superstar. Why would you ever consider trading a bunch of young talent for him. Electing to pay him instead of James Harden is probably the worst move I have ever seen a gm make. Role playing, defensive power forwards like Ibaka can be found throughout the league. Harden is a top five player in basketball. I still cannot believe they chose Ibaka over Harden when they could have signed someone or drafted someone to replace Ibaka.

Apparently everyone here has a hard on for Ibaka. OKC chose him over Harden. How did that work out for them?

[saintEscaton]

The Suns young players are only available if the return is for a superstar, and I mean a true superstar, and not someone that is on the wrong side of 30 either. Unfortunately for the Suns, none of those players are available. If one does become available, then I would say the Suns would consider trading anyone, but who knows what is going to happen.

And Serge Ibaka? Yeah I would trade Morris and/or Tucker for him but no one else. He ain't close to a superstar. Why would you ever consider trading a bunch of young talent for him. Electing to pay him instead of James Harden is probably the worst move I have ever seen a gm make. Role playing, defensive power forwards like Ibaka can be found throughout the league. Harden is a top five player in basketball. I still cannot believe they chose Ibaka over Harden when they could have signed someone or drafted someone to replace Ibaka.

No one on this roster is untouchable and should be made available for the right price. I doubt that the league values our damaged goods as highly as we do and would get in line to pay top dollar. Ibaka is a former block leader, true Stretch 4 who can shoot near 40% from beyond the arc on expanded volume . He's an interior enforcer who can step out on defensive switches and patrol the perimeter while providing weakside help holding opponents to the lowest eFG% last season for a big man (staggering on/off the court differential of 2% ) that shows that his presence nearly singlehandedly anchored an otherwise poor OKC D. . Thats a unique skillset you don't exactly find growing on trees. Noel might give him a run for best defensive PF few years down the road but will never have his range

[Moochthemonkey]

Harden is a top five player in basketball. I still cannot believe they chose Ibaka over Harden when they could have signed someone or drafted someone to replace Ibaka.

Using hindsight to make your judgment. Three years ago keeping Ibaka was justified. Realistically, what other stretch 4/5's that can rebound at a decent clip, and are premier defenders could have easily been signed or drafted (out of the lottery) in this timespan? The Thunder have/had Westbrook and Durant, which made Harden's role somewhat redundant. Keeping Harden over Ibaka would have left the team more unbalanced. Secondly, Harden was a sixth man player, there was reason to believe he wouldn't have developed into the superstar that he is now.

The Suns young players are only available if the return is for a superstar, and I mean a true superstar, and not someone that is on the wrong side of 30 either. Unfortunately for the Suns, none of those players are available. If one does become available, then I would say the Suns would consider trading anyone, but who knows what is going to happen.

And Serge Ibaka? Yeah I would trade Morris and/or Tucker for him but no one else. He ain't close to a superstar. Why would you ever consider trading a bunch of young talent for him. Electing to pay him instead of James Harden is probably the worst move I have ever seen a gm make. Role playing, defensive power forwards like Ibaka can be found throughout the league. Harden is a top five player in basketball. I still cannot believe they chose Ibaka over Harden when they could have signed someone or drafted someone to replace Ibaka.

Apparently everyone here has a hard on for Ibaka. OKC chose him over Harden. How did that work out for them?

how did it work out? OKC has 164 wins and 1 conference finals appearance while the Rockets have 155 wins and 1 conference finals appearance.I 'll wait to the end of this season until fully answering that though- I think OKC and Houston are pretty even coming into this season.

you can say it's a James Hard-on for Ibaka but then I can retort and by saying you have a hardon for Goodwin. I wouldn't trade Warren or Len because IMO they have more upside, and fill a greater need on this team. At the SG spot there's already Knight, Booker, Weems, and maybe Bogdan that can fill that spot. so it's really just being realistic by including prospective value (Goodwin + a late first). Markieff + Tucker alone for Ibaka is a downgrade for OKC. They have to be given some value.

Ibaka isn't a superstar but he would make the team that much better. Ibaka could replicate what Frye did for this team offensively, and in addition to that, Ibaka+Chandler probably would be the best defensive backcourt in the NBA.

[letsgosuns]

The Suns young players are only available if the return is for a superstar, and I mean a true superstar, and not someone that is on the wrong side of 30 either. Unfortunately for the Suns, none of those players are available. If one does become available, then I would say the Suns would consider trading anyone, but who knows what is going to happen.

And Serge Ibaka? Yeah I would trade Morris and/or Tucker for him but no one else. He ain't close to a superstar. Why would you ever consider trading a bunch of young talent for him. Electing to pay him instead of James Harden is probably the worst move I have ever seen a gm make. Role playing, defensive power forwards like Ibaka can be found throughout the league. Harden is a top five player in basketball. I still cannot believe they chose Ibaka over Harden when they could have signed someone or drafted someone to replace Ibaka.

No one on this roster is untouchable and should be made available for the right price. I doubt that the league values our damaged goods as highly as we do and would get in line to pay top dollar. Ibaka is a former block leader, true Stretch 4 who can shoot near 40% from beyond the arc on expanded volume . He's an interior enforcer who can step out on defensive switches and patrol the perimeter while providing weakside help holding opponents to the lowest eFG% last season for a big man. Thats a unique skillset you don't exactly find growing on trees. Noel might give him a run for best defensive PF few years down the road but will never have his range

We already have Tyson Chandler though. He offers such a similar skill set and he does it at 7'1" while Ibaka is 6'10". I know there is a big age difference but Ibaka is not a game changing offensive player. He is still a role player. Therefore I would not give up guys like Warren, Goodwin, and/or Booker for him. Also, how come you think Ibaka is a stretch four? He has been in the league for six years and this was the first year he started shooting threes consistently. He averaged 0.7 three point attempts per game during the two seasons prior. Btw, why do you think the Suns have players that are damaged goods? If that is what you think, couldn't you say Ibaka is damaged goods now too? He has still not been cleared to play. Look at this article from today: http://probasketballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/07/28/report-serge-ibaka-not-yet-cleared-to-play-after-march-surgery/

[saintEscaton]

The Suns young players are only available if the return is for a superstar, and I mean a true superstar, and not someone that is on the wrong side of 30 either. Unfortunately for the Suns, none of those players are available. If one does become available, then I would say the Suns would consider trading anyone, but who knows what is going to happen.

And Serge Ibaka? Yeah I would trade Morris and/or Tucker for him but no one else. He ain't close to a superstar. Why would you ever consider trading a bunch of young talent for him. Electing to pay him instead of James Harden is probably the worst move I have ever seen a gm make. Role playing, defensive power forwards like Ibaka can be found throughout the league. Harden is a top five player in basketball. I still cannot believe they chose Ibaka over Harden when they could have signed someone or drafted someone to replace Ibaka.

No one on this roster is untouchable and should be made available for the right price. I doubt that the league values our damaged goods as highly as we do and would get in line to pay top dollar. Ibaka is a former block leader, true Stretch 4 who can shoot near 40% from beyond the arc on expanded volume . He's an interior enforcer who can step out on defensive switches and patrol the perimeter while providing weakside help holding opponents to the lowest eFG% last season for a big man. Thats a unique skillset you don't exactly find growing on trees. Noel might give him a run for best defensive PF few years down the road but will never have his range

We already have Tyson Chandler though. He offers such a similar skill set and he does it at 7'1" while Ibaka is 6'10". I know there is a big age difference but Ibaka is not a game changing offensive player. He is still a role player. Therefore I would not give up guys like Warren, Goodwin, and/or Booker for him. Also, how come you think Ibaka is a stretch four? He has been in the league for six years and this was the first year he started shooting threes consistently. He averaged 0.7 three point attempts per game during the two seasons prior. Btw, why do you think the Suns have players that are damaged goods? If that is what you think, couldn't you say Ibaka is damaged goods now too? He has still not been cleared to play. Look at this article from today: http://probasketballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/07/28/report-serge-ibaka-not-yet-cleared-to-play-after-march-surgery/

His 3PAs per game went up a whole three attempts though. If making more 3s in one season then the rest of your career combined while shooting at that clip while doing it isn't an encouraging sign for things to come I don't know what is

[lilfishi22]

We are trading away Goodwin who hasn't even developed nor had consistent playing time. Then apparently if we want to keep Goodwin who is a throw in we can replace him with Bogdan who is apparently also trash.

Why not just trade away Warren and Booker? Who needs youth when we can get Serge **** Ibaka who this franchise could have drafted themselves years ago

This narrative is insane.

You're saying you wouldn't trade away two unproven late 1st rounder, a moody Markieff and some mid to late 1st rounder picks for a PROVEN NBA big man?

For that matter, Ibaka is only turning 26 in September. A soon to be 26 year old PF, who has developed a good 3PT shot, is a multiple time All-NBA Defensive FIRST teamer and has been deep in the playoffs isn't worth a guy who has played spot minutes and Bogdan who hasn't even played a single NBA minute?

[letsgosuns]

No one on this roster is untouchable and should be made available for the right price. I doubt that the league values our damaged goods as highly as we do and would get in line to pay top dollar. Ibaka is a former block leader, true Stretch 4 who can shoot near 40% from beyond the arc on expanded volume . He's an interior enforcer who can step out on defensive switches and patrol the perimeter while providing weakside help holding opponents to the lowest eFG% last season for a big man. Thats a unique skillset you don't exactly find growing on trees. Noel might give him a run for best defensive PF few years down the road but will never have his range

We already have Tyson Chandler though. He offers such a similar skill set and he does it at 7'1" while Ibaka is 6'10". I know there is a big age difference but Ibaka is not a game changing offensive player. He is still a role player. Therefore I would not give up guys like Warren, Goodwin, and/or Booker for him. Also, how come you think Ibaka is a stretch four? He has been in the league for six years and this was the first year he started shooting threes consistently. He averaged 0.7 three point attempts per game during the two seasons prior. Btw, why do you think the Suns have players that are damaged goods? If that is what you think, couldn't you say Ibaka is damaged goods now too? He has still not been cleared to play. Look at this article from today: http://probasketballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/07/28/report-serge-ibaka-not-yet-cleared-to-play-after-march-surgery/

His 3PAs per game went up a whole three attempts though. If making more 3s in one season then the rest of your career combined while shooting at that clip while doing it isn't an encouraging sign for things to come I don't know what is

Yeah he could turn into a stretch four type of player but I still would not want to give up young talent for him. I would rather wait to sign him in free agency if the Suns want him. He is only signed for two more years until he is an unrestricted free agent. Why trade players like Warren, Goodwin, or Booker right now for a non-superstar with only two years of control. Goodwin can be controlled for up to another 7 years if the Suns want. Warren for 8 years. Booker for 9 years. And the Suns need those young guys. I expect all three of them to be major contributors for next season. Regardless, even if the Suns were able to hypothetically get Ibaka by giving up some young players, I still see no superstar on the team. I see a team that is barely scratching the playoffs. Plus they would have lost assets that they could use for a superstar.

[TeamTragic]

We are trading away Goodwin who hasn't even developed nor had consistent playing time. Then apparently if we want to keep Goodwin who is a throw in we can replace him with Bogdan who is apparently also trash.

Why not just trade away Warren and Booker? Who needs youth when we can get Serge **** Ibaka who this franchise could have drafted themselves years ago

This narrative is insane.

You're saying you wouldn't trade away two unproven late 1st rounder, a moody Markieff and some mid to late 1st rounder picks for a PROVEN NBA big man?

For that matter, Ibaka is only turning 26 in September. A soon to be 26 year old PF, who has developed a good 3PT shot, is a multiple time All-NBA Defensive FIRST teamer and has been deep in the playoffs isn't worth a guy who has played spot minutes and Bogdan who hasn't even played a single NBA minute?

Oh I'm sorry did your feathers get ruffled? Goodwin hasn't even been given a chance and Bogdan hasn't even played on this team yet we should dump them immediately for Ibaka. I'm glad that you aren't the GM.

[Mr-Al]

We are trading away Goodwin who hasn't even developed nor had consistent playing time. Then apparently if we want to keep Goodwin who is a throw in we can replace him with Bogdan who is apparently also trash.

Why not just trade away Warren and Booker? Who needs youth when we can get Serge **** Ibaka who this franchise could have drafted themselves years ago

This narrative is insane.

You're saying you wouldn't trade away two unproven late 1st rounder, a moody Markieff and some mid to late 1st rounder picks for a PROVEN NBA big man?

For that matter, Ibaka is only turning 26 in September. A soon to be 26 year old PF, who has developed a good 3PT shot, is a multiple time All-NBA Defensive FIRST teamer and has been deep in the playoffs isn't worth a guy who has played spot minutes and Bogdan who hasn't even played a single NBA minute?

Oh I'm sorry did your feathers get ruffled? Goodwin hasn't even been given a chance and Bogdan hasn't even played on this team yet we should dump them immediately for Ibaka. I'm glad that you aren't the GM.

You act as if we're trading them for David Lee

Serge Ibaka is really **** good if you haven't noticed

and I have two tiers of youth here

Tier 1: Warren, Booker

Tier 1.5: Bogdan

Tier 2: Goodwin

[Moochthemonkey]

We are trading away Goodwin who hasn't even developed nor had consistent playing time. Then apparently if we want to keep Goodwin who is a throw in we can replace him with Bogdan who is apparently also trash.

Why not just trade away Warren and Booker? Who needs youth when we can get Serge **** Ibaka who this franchise could have drafted themselves years ago

This narrative is insane.

You're saying you wouldn't trade away two unproven late 1st rounder, a moody Markieff and some mid to late 1st rounder picks for a PROVEN NBA big man?

For that matter, Ibaka is only turning 26 in September. A soon to be 26 year old PF, who has developed a good 3PT shot, is a multiple time All-NBA Defensive FIRST teamer and has been deep in the playoffs isn't worth a guy who has played spot minutes and Bogdan who hasn't even played a single NBA minute?

Oh I'm sorry did your feathers get ruffled? Goodwin hasn't even been given a chance and Bogdan hasn't even played on this team yet we should dump them immediately for Ibaka. I'm glad that you aren't the GM.

McD essentially traded two first round picks for Knight. I'm pretty sure if given the chance, he would execute the deal. But it doesn't make any sense for OKC.

[SunsRback4Good]

Yeah, OKC already lost James Harden I don't see them taking such a gamble considering Kieff, Tucker, etc are unproven players while Ibaka is only 26 and already established himself in the league. So, it doesn't make sense for OKC but could be huge for the Suns but I doubt this type of trade happens as I give it 5% and I'm being polite.

[Years90Suns]

Interesting article on TJ:

http://basketball.realgm.com/analysis/238890/Finding-Minutes-For-The-Unorthodox-Game-Of-TJ-Warren

[thamadkant]

Some of us, including me, have proposed Ibaka trade months ago... I thought it was feasible with Morris twins, Tucker, picks etc.
But looking how stacked the West is now... no way Thunder trades Ibaka to purely save money.

It'd have to include Knight to even entice them to consider it.


Or a 3-way that brings them a very productive PF next to Kanter.

Ironically, Ibaka is the perfect PF next to Kanter, since Kanter needs space inside to operate and needs to be next to a rim protector.
So forget the Thunder deal.

[thamadkant]

If Markief is on the way out.... I would call Blazers.

Vonleh can be developed quickly next to Chandler and Len. Vonleh can hit the 3pt shot and has the length to bother shots.