The Trade/Free Agency Thread: All Eyes Toward The Offseason 2

[8on]

oh.....forgot about the Miami picks.

two Miami picks + #4 + #13? would that do it? do i have to add TJ? fine, ok.

i've been thinking......what if we could get Bledsoe + Butler + Blake Griffin?

that would be dangerous. we could put a lot of pressure on any team at the line. we'd be a great rebounding team, especially with a Bledsoe/Butler backcourt. add Griff and Tyson.....maybe Nic Batum.....now that is dangerous.

I don't think the Miami picks are going to do too much for a deal unless a team is like at the serious beginning of a rebuild. Some can argue the Bulls are, but they have an all star soon to hit his prime, and a fan base who is used to competing.

The Bulls can draft Dunn, who is as close to a Derrick Rose clone as I've ever seen.

if they choose to cut bait with JB, they know they're taking a step back. there's no avoiding that.

[carey]

Reading about a lot of users on the T&T board's opinons on Brandon Knight's trade value is pretty funny lol I see all these people talking about how he has negative trade value, or how X recent draft pick is much more valuable, or Y fringe-All Star is light-years better, and I'm just getting flashbacks to when everyone said we'd get a 2nd rounder at best for Markieff

Yeah, I don't put much stock in the T&T board. I've put up the Teague & Knight comparison before. It isn't that far off and lots of teams covet Teague. The notion that he has negative value is a bit silly. Even as a Jamal Crawford microwave he isn't negative value with the ballooning salary cap.

[jeff2020]

Bulls fans are thinking #3, 2017 Brooklyn Pick, plus from Boston.

That is way too much to give up for a player who isn't even going to put them over the top in the east

He is super young, and Cleveland is going to decline slowly. I'd do it if I was Boston at this point because they are firmly a playoff team with a fanbase that wants to compete. Draft picks may not pan out at all...it's not like their high draft picks have panned out to much, and it would take a while for those guys to compete. They should put some protection on the 17 one, but I don't know if Chicago accepts that if there is too much protection.

Butler is 26 and turning 27 in September I don't really consider that super young especially when Cleveland will be the team to beat for another 3-4 years. Just my opinion though

[bwgood77]

You guys know what happens when you get so desperate to win and make some obscene trade? You end up like Brooklyn and give up three unprotected first round picks and go nowhere. I have absolutely no interest whatsoever in giving up some kind of massive package for Butler. That kind of package is reserved for MVP players in their prime only. And those guys are usually never available. You do not trade several draft picks and your best young players for a guy that is a second/third option on a team.

I don't know if you can call him 2nd or 3rd option on a team. You might find this ridiculous, but just look at the link and examine the stats before your reply.

This is a comparison of Kobe and Butler at the same age, though Kobe had been in the league much longer. Kobe scored 7 more ppg, but he took 5 more shots per game, and Butler wasn't too far behind in rebounds and assists, had more steals and had half as many turnovers.

Their advanced stats are very close.

http://bkref.com/tiny/HHopM

[carey]

Bulls fans are thinking #3, 2017 Brooklyn Pick, plus from Boston.

Lol. Get bent, Chicago. People are nuts.

[darealjuice]

Reading about a lot of users on the T&T board's opinons on Brandon Knight's trade value is pretty funny lol I see all these people talking about how he has negative trade value, or how X recent draft pick is much more valuable, or Y fringe-All Star is light-years better, and I'm just getting flashbacks to when everyone said we'd get a 2nd rounder at best for Markieff

Yeah, as much as I complained about him, it wasn't all completely fair given he has been injured, the team in turmoil or decimated last year after trade deadline and just a mess this year. He was obviously not going to put up good numbers playing with no real PF early (though he did at times) and next to a rookie or Price late, with a shell of a front court playing two centers.

Still needs to improve on decision making, taking better shots, a little more ball movement, crunch time, and turnovers, but I can't imagine a rookie comes in and is any better. Murray may end up being a better shooter, but he had fewer assists in college and had more turnovers than assists.

I agree with everything that you said about what he needs to improve on, and you're probably right that there won't be many rookies this year putting up his numbers. I've been saying for awhile, once we see Jeremy Lin, Demar DeRozan, Matthew Dellavadova, Mike Conley, etc. get their pay days this Free Agency, locking Brandon Knight in at $14MM/year until 2020 will look a lot better. He's still young and has plenty of time to improve, and I'd honestly be okay keeping him here if he would take the 6th man role.

[darealjuice]

Reading about a lot of users on the T&T board's opinons on Brandon Knight's trade value is pretty funny lol I see all these people talking about how he has negative trade value, or how X recent draft pick is much more valuable, or Y fringe-All Star is light-years better, and I'm just getting flashbacks to when everyone said we'd get a 2nd rounder at best for Markieff

I see Knights perceived value on the Trade Board as what IT's was when we had him. All people wanted to do was talk about how bad his deal was, how he was a shoot first hero ball PG with bad percentages. How no one wanted him. Now a year later, he is an all-star and peoples opinions on him have changed drastically. That is Knight. Throw him on a new team like Philly or Sactown and he will blossom and people will wonder why we traded him for so little. Its a bit of people being un-knowledgeable with a bit of hindsight mixed in. 2015 Knight = 2014 Thomas.

I agree, I mean it took us a very valuable asset in the future Lakers pick to bring him in from Milwaukee and he's still the same player he was as back then. Even if that was an overpay, implying that he's gone from a being somewhere around that value level to a negative trade asset because he's on a $14MM/year contract is pretty ridiculous considering the cap will be over $100MM soon.

[saintEscaton]

Just watch that pick will convey next year and Philly will walk away with a blue chip PG/SF to complete their core

[darealjuice]

Just watch that pick will convey next year and Philly will walk away with a blue chip PG/SF to complete their core

Yeah, you're probably right in that the Lakers won't be in the bottom 3 again next year, even more so depending how FA shakes things up. Obviously I'd like to have the pick, and I would never ever say that I would rather have Knight than a top 10 pick in next year's draft, but to be honest I'd rather the Sixers "complete their core" and the Lakers miss out on an extremely talented draft than the Lakers get their pick. **** the Lakers.

I'll just hope they draft a bust if the pick conveys this year

[Frank Lee]

Knight is ours, until someone wants him as bad as McMully did.

Lets hope he buys into whatever Watson has planned for him.

[DirtyDez]

For conversational purposes how much better does Butler make Booker?

We're talking about an elite defender who's averaging 20/5/5. How much better would Booker make Butler?

Is Bledsoe/Booker/Butler a top-3 perimeter in the league?

I think if Bled-Butt are healthy we would have a very very good team. Would like to keep our 13th pick somehow, going as far as possibly giving up Miami 2019 pick plus the 28th. If DraftExpress is true to form, then we'd take Deyonta Davis at 13 and I'd be very thrilled about that.
Back to your original question, I think Bled-Butt would make Booker look very good offensively. His numbers would probably be around the same as Klay Thompson's third year (18.4/3.2/2.1 on 44%FG/40%3FG/85%FT).
Really like the idea of having the triple B perimeter players, but we would need to keep the 13th pick so we can draft a PF.

That would give us some excellent defenders... Bled, Butler, PJ, David, Chandler. Starting to like the Butler idea more & more if it only took #4/#28/Warren/MIA pick.

[letsgosuns]

You guys know what happens when you get so desperate to win and make some obscene trade? You end up like Brooklyn and give up three unprotected first round picks and go nowhere. I have absolutely no interest whatsoever in giving up some kind of massive package for Butler. That kind of package is reserved for MVP players in their prime only. And those guys are usually never available. You do not trade several draft picks and your best young players for a guy that is a second/third option on a team.

I don't know if you can call him 2nd or 3rd option on a team. You might find this ridiculous, but just look at the link and examine the stats before your reply.

This is a comparison of Kobe and Butler at the same age, though Kobe had been in the league much longer. Kobe scored 7 more ppg, but he took 5 more shots per game, and Butler wasn't too far behind in rebounds and assists, had more steals and had half as many turnovers.

Their advanced stats are very close.

http://bkref.com/tiny/HHopM

I understand. But I have read several articles written by Bulls beat writers and Bulls fans that all say he is not a number one option type player. They also say his attitude of refusing to play in Hoiberg's system is not good. They get to see him play every game and many of them agree he is not a number one option type player. I have watched a lot of him myself and I do not see him as that either. Here is just one example from The Chicago Tribune written early this morning:

"Butler is the first guy the Bulls should trade because he would bring back the most and he has not shown he could be the alpha player on a championship team, no matter what Butler thinks, and I believe we all know what Butler thinks.

Butler is the first guy the Bulls should trade also because they apparently aren’t firing the ill-equipped Fred Hoiberg. Butler neutered the rookie coach last season when he said Hoiberg needed to "coach harder," and neutered him further by refusing to run the rookie coach’s system.

It’s hard to see how the Bulls can win with the Hoiberg-Butler combination. After last season, it’s hard to see how they can win with the Hoiberg-Anybody combination."

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/rosenblog/ct-jimmy-butler-bulls-trade-rosenbloom-20160614-column.html

Rosenbloom has been with that paper since 1996. I am going to have to trust his opinion when he says Butler is not an alpha dog type player because he saw the best one ever in Jordan. Now he might be wrong about Butler but again there have been many articles and fans alike that all claim Butler is not that type of player and they see him every game.

[AtheJ415]

I think people wanting to trade our youngsters for a star are going about it wrong. Let's not jump at the quick fix. If we can get a guy who is undervalued (and most star trades are), then yes, you do it, but trading a giant amount for one isn't worthwhile and defies almost the entire history of star trades.

Cousins is the only star that is a fit for us that might be available. The rest are too old for our cast. We would, therefore, be better off selling off Tucker, Chandler, and the vets (even Bledsoe is the price is right) and continuing to build around the youngsters. Imo, we should keep all 4 picks in this draft unless one is needed to trade up and secure someone of value. Draft and stash is a fine option for a couple picks with the international talent available.

[jredsaz]

Bulls fans are thinking #3, 2017 Brooklyn Pick, plus from Boston.

Lol. Get bent, Chicago. People are nuts.

First off, I don't want to trade Butler. But if we have to...

Boston gets Butler and Taj

Bulls get Bradley, Smart, Sullinger, #3, and Nets #1 next year

See. I told you so. Lol. Even if Sully can't be dealt, that's a lot. But Ainge is desperate. I wonder how high the bidding goes and where/if the Bulls pull the trigger.

I have also been quoted #2 and Russell from LAL. That will be posted on the Trade Board before the week is out.

[Mulhollanddrive]

I don't understand why Chicago would want Bradley, Smart, Sullinger.

They are cloggers who will take up 30-40m in a few years.

I'd just want 3, Nets, Nets swap, Memphis (potentially 4 high picks). Sign whatever FA you want with that 30-40m.

[thamadkant]

Ainge WILL not trade away 3 starters and a top 3 pick not to mention another high future pick for Jimmy Butler.


Why would he completely dismantle a playoff team to bring in a star?

He wants to ADD a star to the team he has already... With minimal player losses...


The pick or picks are in offer... And maybe one of Bradley or Smart.

I also think they will resign Turner... That team needs ball movers also.

Sullinger is a RFA so he cant be sign and traded with other players... Any trades post resigning him will be in December.... Also Sullinger is a good PF for them.

[bwgood77]

You guys know what happens when you get so desperate to win and make some obscene trade? You end up like Brooklyn and give up three unprotected first round picks and go nowhere. I have absolutely no interest whatsoever in giving up some kind of massive package for Butler. That kind of package is reserved for MVP players in their prime only. And those guys are usually never available. You do not trade several draft picks and your best young players for a guy that is a second/third option on a team.

I don't know if you can call him 2nd or 3rd option on a team. You might find this ridiculous, but just look at the link and examine the stats before your reply.

This is a comparison of Kobe and Butler at the same age, though Kobe had been in the league much longer. Kobe scored 7 more ppg, but he took 5 more shots per game, and Butler wasn't too far behind in rebounds and assists, had more steals and had half as many turnovers.

Their advanced stats are very close.

http://bkref.com/tiny/HHopM

I understand. But I have read several articles written by Bulls beat writers and Bulls fans that all say he is not a number one option type player. They also say his attitude of refusing to play in Hoiberg's system is not good. They get to see him play every game and many of them agree he is not a number one option type player. I have watched a lot of him myself and I do not see him as that either. Here is just one example from The Chicago Tribune written early this morning:

"Butler is the first guy the Bulls should trade because he would bring back the most and he has not shown he could be the alpha player on a championship team, no matter what Butler thinks, and I believe we all know what Butler thinks.

Butler is the first guy the Bulls should trade also because they apparently aren’t firing the ill-equipped Fred Hoiberg. Butler neutered the rookie coach last season when he said Hoiberg needed to "coach harder," and neutered him further by refusing to run the rookie coach’s system.

It’s hard to see how the Bulls can win with the Hoiberg-Butler combination. After last season, it’s hard to see how they can win with the Hoiberg-Anybody combination."

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/rosenblog/ct-jimmy-butler-bulls-trade-rosenbloom-20160614-column.html

Rosenbloom has been with that paper since 1996. I am going to have to trust his opinion when he says Butler is not an alpha dog type player because he saw the best one ever in Jordan. Now he might be wrong about Butler but again there have been many articles and fans alike that all claim Butler is not that type of player and they see him every game.

I read a similar article. Yeah, I thought I posted a response earlier saying I was kind of in agreement with you as not as excited about Butler due to attitude, and kind of seemed like a "me" guy

[bwgood77]

Reading about a lot of users on the T&T board's opinons on Brandon Knight's trade value is pretty funny lol I see all these people talking about how he has negative trade value, or how X recent draft pick is much more valuable, or Y fringe-All Star is light-years better, and I'm just getting flashbacks to when everyone said we'd get a 2nd rounder at best for Markieff

Yeah, I don't put much stock in the T&T board. I've put up the Teague & Knight comparison before. It isn't that far off and lots of teams covet Teague. The notion that he has negative value is a bit silly. Even as a Jamal Crawford microwave he isn't negative value with the ballooning salary cap.

I agree with the cap going up, but it really all depends on whether or not you like Knight as a player. If you simply don't want the ball in his hands on your team, I can understand not wanting him at any price.

At times I simply wished he never had the ball in his hands, particularly in crucial moments. Maybe he is best as a Jamal Crawford type but I don't know if Crawford made as many mistakes/turnovers either, though maybe he did.

For teams needing a pg, I certainly can understand wanting Teague over Knight.

[bwgood77]

That is way too much to give up for a player who isn't even going to put them over the top in the east

He is super young, and Cleveland is going to decline slowly. I'd do it if I was Boston at this point because they are firmly a playoff team with a fanbase that wants to compete. Draft picks may not pan out at all...it's not like their high draft picks have panned out to much, and it would take a while for those guys to compete. They should put some protection on the 17 one, but I don't know if Chicago accepts that if there is too much protection.

Butler is 26 and turning 27 in September I don't really consider that super young especially when Cleveland will be the team to beat for another 3-4 years. Just my opinion though

Yeah, I guess it depends...I consider that young, but I know many people here consider that pretty old so it's all relative. Many players these days playing until mid to late 30s.

But I don't agree with the sentiment that if you're in the east, with Cleveland up there, everyone else should just scrap their teams and trade their stars.

[Mulhollanddrive]

Would that mean we shouldn't trade for a big name for 3-4 years too?