2016 Draft Thread Part 4

[RaisingArizona]

I know everyone is preaching patience but like the reports state, McD is on the hot seat. It makes sense from his standpoint to get results next year, not 5 years from now.

[ImNotMcDiSwear]

I know everyone is preaching patience but like the reports state, McD is on the hot seat. It makes sense from his standpoint to get results next year, not 5 years from now.

I hope this is all conjecture. I've loved McD's tenure. He's set us up so well for the future. I'd hate to think that we would piss it all away so we can make a glorious first round exit.

[NavLDO]

We all are over thinking about the pick, if we keep it simple it's gonna be Chriss.

Every mock draft have us taking him in the last few days (DX, ESPN,.net), Gambo has said that is our favourite player at #4 for upside and fit and everyone knows that we are one of the few teams that had him for a workout and launch with him.

He follows now Earl Watson on Twitter and he has said to other teams that he thinks he is going to Phoenix on draft night.

The only team that picks before us is Boston (Philadelphia and LA don't really count) and they haven't Chriss like his first (Brown) or even second ( Dunn for trade purposes) options.

Last time we had a top 5 pick, not one mock had us taking Len. Most had him going later.

That's not true; a lot of mocks had Len going 1st overall in that last week. (Unless I'm reading your post wrong...)

[NavLDO]

When it comes to mocks, all it takes it one wrong pick high up to mess the entire rest of it up.

When Cleveland took Bennett, it threw everything out of wack.

In a good way!

[NavLDO]

i'm just going to put this out there.

in the next 24 hours, you will not see a report where the Lakers have made a promise to Brandon Ingram.

this is because they are debating between Dunn and Ingram.

as much as Ingram intrigues me, i heard he has been having a really hard time putting on weight. he is way too skinny. i'm not sure about him. on the other hand. Dunn is a warrior. he doesn't know how to fail. i think that's the kind of player the Lakers need.

can Ingram create space in the NBA? can he create his own shot in year 1? can he get to the line? how well can he shoot from the NBA 3 pt line? i'm pessimistic about all of those questions.

https://theundefeated.com/videos/a-dream-deferred/

His shooting and TO %s say otherwise; just because he's confident, doesn't mean he doesn't 'know how to fail'.

[Waylay13]

Still hoping for a star trade or Okafor!!

What do you think that Okafor brings to the table over Len? Okafor isnt a power forward as he doesnt have the range to open the lane, doesnt rebound well and has some very serious character issues. I wonder if he would even come close to scoring as well as he did if it wasnt for him being on the 76er with no talent.

To me a star trade means that we are going back to being late lottery or out in the first round of the playoff and that is the worst case to me.

[JMac1]

If we want to try to compete and we can't trade for Okafor or Hayward or Butler (I think we can get and should get Okafor if that's the case), then we draft either Dunn or Hield. Moreso Hield

Bledsoe/Knight
Booker/Hield
PJ/TJ
Barnes/Telly/#13
Chandler/Len

Those guards would be hell for 48 mins a game!

Edit: actually not bad

[NTB]

If we want to try to compete and we can't trade for Okafor or Hayward or Butler (I think we can get and should get Okafor if that's the case), then we draft either Dunn or Hield. Moreso Hield

Bledsoe/Knight
Booker/Hield
PJ/TJ
Barnes/Telly/#13
Chandler/Len

Those guards would be hell for 48 mins a game!

Edit: actually not bad

Bled-Dragic-Thomas didn't teach you anything?

[NavLDO]

BPA is Murray or Dunn.

Dunn is BPA RIGHT NOW. Hield and Murray next best...maybe Hield slightly right now. I'd take who I thought would turn into the best player down the road. I think it could be Dunn but we don't want him. It could be Murray, but he can't pass or play D. Hield is kind of a one trick pony. Both PFs have their own weaknesses as well but have more different areas of strength, even though they are not as elite at that ONE strength Murray and Hield have.

I like versatile like Draymond. I like perimeter defense. I like passing. I like shooting. I like shot blockers. Is Bender elite at any of these? No, but very good for his age at that young age. You could argue that he looks better than Booker did at passing in the draft, and he's certainly better at defense and blocking shots, AND he plays a position of need.

I like the appeal of what Chriss might be able to do but there are more worries about how bad he is in areas right now, and bbiq, another thing which Bender has.

To me, overall, Bender, in the long run is the BPA. Possibly Murray could be as well in a McCollum sort of way, but we already have Booker and I'm not convinced Murray can pass or play D.

Dunn right now and long term may have the best chance of being the best, but he has turnover and shooting problems. Due to Bledsoe's injury concerns he would make sense but he doesn't want to be here and I think McD is committed to Bledsoe for now and probably to Knight unless an offer is too good to pass up. I just don't see any PFs available in trade. I'm not even entirely sure Butler is even on the table. They will probably listen but I don't know who can give a great offer. Minnesota can probably give the best one.

sure, Dunn, Murray and Hield are BPA right now. it'll take Chriss and Bender 2-5 years to get the level that those three are at now. so, in four years, when we're screaming "TRADE ________!!!!!", it'll be because as a fanbase, we didn't give them enough time to develop before we all but call the commish ourselves. in the meantime, Dunn, Murray or Hield could be All-Stars in two to three years.

i don't know. that's the whole point. when you're talking about best prospect available, it could Bender or Chriss. but there's less risk to Dunn, Murray or Hield (especially Dunn and Murray), which is why I think they're better prospects. could Bender or Chriss have a higher ceiling than any of those three? yes, but those three have All-Star ceilings, so it would be really tough. but theoretically, sure.

I really do not agree with, or believe this, in the slightest. According to who??? Ask 10 different scouts, you will get 10 different answers as to who is BPA. Just because Dunn and Hield are older, doesn't mean they are BPA. And Murray has worse defensive issues than Chriss, or at least are on the same level--they are both young, and can shoot. That's about it.

[bwgood77]

You sure? That is the Anthony Bennet draft & Len was talked about as a potential #1 pick for a while on some sites and networks.

Edit: I see some folks have responded with the same thing already.

Something earlier I saw said that. I found something else that said 21 out of 263 mocks had us taking Len, but that included all mocks early on and later revisions of them, but it's hard to find the final mocks from the major sites now.

This is the best thing I could find and you can see it had various versions. If you look at accuracy of Aran Smith, DX, and Chad Ford, their mocks on 6/27, Aran's (nbadraft.net) did the best. But if you click on the old links to those drafts, they were updated to the correct picks. DX (Givony) only got 3 picks in the entire draft right. Ford also got 3, and Smith got 5.

https://weaksideawareness.wordpress.com/2013/07/02/grading-nba-mock-drafts-2013-from-best-to-worst/

actually it's not difficult to find old mock's at all - just use wayback machine. - DX had Len going Nr.4 to Bobcats (then) and had as taking Oladipo at 5, while nbadraft.net - had us taking Anthony Bennet and Len went Nr.1 in their mock .

I knew there was a way as I know someone had posted archived pages, I just didn't know how to do it.

[Jarlaxle0204]

[tweet]https://twitter.com/Lockedonsports/status/745599059356942336[/tweet]

The comparison of Bender to Millsap is interesting and one I hadn't heard before.

[bwgood77]

Well do you think he can improve?

Maybe a bit on his rebounding, but its his defense that im worried the most about.

I'm more concerned with rebounding. When you have that athleticism, you can learn to defend. I think with small ball these days he can switch and defend smaller players and keep up with anyone. He will make plenty of mistakes early, but I like the ability to switch and stay with his guy. Durant wasn't much of a defender coming in but he has become very respectable. Many others improve, particularly if they have athleticism.

[bwgood77]

Marquese Chriss, 6'10 (long neck), 233 pounds, 7'0 wingspan, 8'9 standing reach (short for a PF)
Hakim Warrick, 6'9, 215 pounds, 7'2 wingspan, 9'0 standing reach
Stromile Swift, 6'9, 220 pounds, 7'3 wingspan, 9'2 standing reach
Tyrus Thomas, 6'9, 217 pounds, 7'3 wingspan, 9'0 standing reach

I've mentioned this a few times, Chriss's more of a SF type reach.... similar to Markieff Morris..
I think Chriss could turn out to be a more athletic, above the rim version of Markieff without the back to the basket game.

Marquese a much better shooter than any of those. I'm not sure how good those guys were at defense, but given Chriss' weight and ability to jump higher than those guys, I'm not as concerned about the wingspan. the reach, maybe.

[bwgood77]

Marquese Chriss, 6'10 (long neck), 233 pounds, 7'0 wingspan, 8'9 standing reach (short for a PF)
Hakim Warrick, 6'9, 215 pounds, 7'2 wingspan, 9'0 standing reach
Stromile Swift, 6'9, 220 pounds, 7'3 wingspan, 9'2 standing reach
Tyrus Thomas, 6'9, 217 pounds, 7'3 wingspan, 9'0 standing reach

I've mentioned this a few times, Chriss's more of a SF type reach.... similar to Markieff Morris..
I think Chriss could turn out to be a more athletic, above the rim version of Markieff without the back to the basket game.

Defensively he plays very upright with little leverage or bend, if he dosn't learn how to get low/establish the inside position he may be called for reaching over the back often. Also has a propensity for overcomitting chasing weakside blocks and was backed down with ease in the post. He can alter shots with his ridicilous hops, but he needs perfect timing/anticipation due to his below average standing reach(sure the Combine measurements are off but I doubt they changed much) He has a knack for wading through traffic grabbing offensive boards, but sometimes he would sacrifice getting back in transition. He will give up more second chance opportunties than he secures.

He has to play with a shot blocking center with big size and length. I think he will be fine guarding small ball 4s. Comparing him to some of those guys as a freshman isn't quite fair as the only one of those guys who only played one year in college is Thomas. Swift played two and Warrick four.

Having said that, given all these concerns, I can't see why he should/would be the pick over Bender if he is there. Bender already is much better defensively, has extremely elite length, and can do all the things offensively than Chriss, plus he has the passing and bbiq, and a great motor and work ethic.

[bwgood77]

Marquese Chriss, 6'10 (long neck), 233 pounds, 7'0 wingspan, 8'9 standing reach (short for a PF)
Hakim Warrick, 6'9, 215 pounds, 7'2 wingspan, 9'0 standing reach
Stromile Swift, 6'9, 220 pounds, 7'3 wingspan, 9'2 standing reach
Tyrus Thomas, 6'9, 217 pounds, 7'3 wingspan, 9'0 standing reach

I've mentioned this a few times, Chriss's more of a SF type reach.... similar to Markieff Morris..
I think Chriss could turn out to be a more athletic, above the rim version of Markieff without the back to the basket game.

Defensively he plays very upright with little leverage or bend, if he dosn't learn how to get low/establish the inside position he may be called for reaching over the back often. Also has a propensity for overcomitting chasing weakside blocks and was backed down with ease in the post. He can alter shots with his ridicilous hops, but he needs perfect timing/anticipation due to his below average standing reach(sure the Combine measurements are off but I doubt they changed much) He has a knack for wading through traffic grabbing offensive boards, but sometimes he would sacrifice getting back in transition. He will give up more second chance opportunties than he secures.

So since you are so against Chriss, would you roll the dice with Jamal Murray? Or Hield? Since Dunn appears to be off the table? Or back to Brown who has more deficiencies. While I wouldn't mind a potential Tony Allen type player, I wouldn't want to spend the 4th pick on him.

[bwgood77]

I'll be fine with Bender or Chriss. I prefer Chriss though just because he has a higher ceiling, and it would be really nice to have an all-star caliber player again if he can reach his potential, whereas Bender will just be an nice complementary piece if he reaches his ceiling.

As for all the criticism regarding Chriss's lack of experience, knowledge etc. it'd be interesting to see what this board's reaction was to Alex Len at the time of the draft, considering he picked up basketball late like Chriss.

I don't know, if he has a superior length than Kawhi Leonard and can guard the perimeter and puts a little more bulk to play inside against bigger guys, and offensively can play similar to Draymond offensively as well, and switch like Steven Adams on the perimter, even if he is slightly poor man's combination of those guys, I'd be happy with that. I don't expect him to have quite the impact of each of those guys individually, but somewhat similar traits to all of those guys in different areas.

[bwgood77]

I'll be fine with Bender or Chriss. I prefer Chriss though just because he has a higher ceiling, and it would be really nice to have an all-star caliber player again if he can reach his potential, whereas Bender will just be an nice complementary piece if he reaches his ceiling.

As for all the criticism regarding Chriss's lack of experience, knowledge etc. it'd be interesting to see what this board's reaction was to Alex Len at the time of the draft, considering he picked up basketball late like Chriss.

I think Bender has the higher ceiling. He's got the height and length, coupled with his IQ and good fundamentals. However I think Chriss has more chance of reaching his high ceiling. His lack of experience and low basketball IQ is what will hold him back from reaching great heights in my view.

I also wasn't a fan of the Len signing but the guy I wanted has been even more of a disappointment (McLemore) so I guess McD did better than me in that draft

What makes you think Chriss has a better chance of reaching the high ceiling? I think with the lower bbiq and more of a questionable work ethic I wouldn't say that.

[bwgood77]

If the Suns had the first or second pick, I would not trade it for Butler. When Kevin Love got traded for Wiggins, he was coming off a season where he averaged 26 pts, 13 rbs, and 4 ast a game. Those are Charles Barkley in his prime numbers. As good as Butler is, his numbers as a shooting guard compared to other top shooting guards are not comparable to what Love was putting up as a power forward compared to other power forwards. I know Butler is a two way player but so what. In order for a team to trade the number one pick in the draft, they would need a return of like James Harden, who averaged 29 pts, 8 ast, and 6 rbs. That is not Butler. So if the Bulls are demanding the first or second pick in the draft for Butler, then I doubt he gets traded.

Btw, Sarver has no one to blame but himself for the Suns not being in the playoffs. He is the one that ultimately hired Blanks and Babby. He is the one that fired assistant coaches instead of the head coach as if the assistant coaches were the actual problem. He is the one that has driven the organization into the ground. He was gift wrapped the Nash, Amare, Marion Suns team along with JJ and Q and he let it go. How many former Suns players, coaches, and front office personal have won championships with other organizations? A lot.

I guess you are not a fan of defense? Love and Harden's defense compared to Butler...no comparison...not close. Why just focused purely on offense? If the Lakers think they can sign impact free agents, it seems like they'd give up the 2 for Butler.

[bwgood77]

Woj just repeating the same old Sarver rhetoric that I have heard a gazillion times in the last couple of years. Don't put any weight into it.

Of course we freakin wanna make playoffs. So do 29 other teams.

Yeah, it seems like everyone is repeating that. Sure he wants to make the playoffs, but I don't think we will find a good enough player to trade the pick. But Sarver is still a jackass.

[bwgood77]

If we want to try to compete and we can't trade for Okafor or Hayward or Butler (I think we can get and should get Okafor if that's the case), then we draft either Dunn or Hield. Moreso Hield

Bledsoe/Knight
Booker/Hield
PJ/TJ
Barnes/Telly/#13
Chandler/Len

Those guards would be hell for 48 mins a game!

Edit: actually not bad

Yuck