Trade & FA Ideas & Discussion #5: A Serving of Irving?

MrMiyagi · Post #981 » by **MrMiyagi** » Wed Aug 2, 2017 8:14 am

Dambo wrote:

Watch on YouTube

I don't know about you guys, but I see a pretty solid defrnder in this video.

Really? He looks like he gets killed on screens and doesn't communicate that he's not switching.

denial · Post #982 » by **denial** » Wed Aug 2, 2017 8:30 am

MrMiyagi wrote:
Dambo wrote:

Watch on YouTube

I don't know about you guys, but I see a pretty solid defrnder in this video.

Really? He looks like he gets killed on screens and doesn't communicate that he's not switching.

I agree. I think that video shows me that he is indeed a bad defender as all of you have been saying. Not only does he stick to screens and seem confused. When curry goes at him straight up he beats him every time (despite clanking his layups). Kyrie's feet look slow motion on d, in this video.

SlovenianDragon · Post #983 » by **SlovenianDragon** » Wed Aug 2, 2017 8:33 am

denial wrote:
MrMiyagi wrote:
Dambo wrote:

Watch on YouTube

I don't know about you guys, but I see a pretty solid defrnder in this video.

Really? He looks like he gets killed on screens and doesn't communicate that he's not switching.

I agree. I think that video shows me that he is indeed a bad defender as all of you have been saying. Not only does he stick to screens and seem confused. When curry goes at him straight up he beats him every time (despite clanking his layups). Kyrie's feet look slow motion on d, in this video.

Not to mention hes doesn't box out or try to rebound.

Hes just waiting for the pass to bring the ball up the court.

SideSwipe · Post #984 » by **SideSwipe** » Wed Aug 2, 2017 9:13 am

His body is all wrong in one on one D. He bends at the waist instead of the knee. He doesn't use his body/chest enough except once which was nice. He's not forcing his guy the direction he wants....he is getting some steals though.

Again, his play reminds me of a rich mans Knight. Very similar in my mind, though Knight is now putting some weight on it looks like. Both have great ball-handling skills and a knack for getting to the basket. Irving converts at a much better pace though. Neither are willing passers, though I think that Knight may actually be more of a natural passer (I need to check the stats on this) Irving looks like a better leader with higher BBIQ. I will say, that Irving has had the benefit of having HOF players around him, and Knight has played with a lot of people who are out of the league. I think it would be fun to watch those guys play one on one.

GDFTony · Post #985 » by **GDFTony** » Wed Aug 2, 2017 9:41 am

SlovenianDragon wrote:
denial wrote:
MrMiyagi wrote:Really? He looks like he gets killed on screens and doesn't communicate that he's not switching.

I agree. I think that video shows me that he is indeed a bad defender as all of you have been saying. Not only does he stick to screens and seem confused. When curry goes at him straight up he beats him every time (despite clanking his layups). Kyrie's feet look slow motion on d, in this video.

Not to mention hes doesn't box out or try to rebound.

Hes just waiting for the pass to bring the ball up the court.

Uh, maybe because he's a PG?? Lol I swear, some people

GDFTony · Post #986 » by **GDFTony** » Wed Aug 2, 2017 9:45 am

I wasn't big on trading for Kyrie at first but the more I think about it I think if the deal is right, we need to pull the trigger. Passing up on a star player just because we might have potential is ridiculous considering we've struck out how many times trying to get a FA?

NBA is a great example of "if you build it, they will come". Kyrie will definitely help attract others.

Also, the blatant steps some people on this board are going through to discredit Kyrie as a top player in the NBA is ridiculous. I swear some people would rather be drafting to rebuild for the next 20 years. Does everyone not recall the Bulls/Clippers from the 2000's? Constant lottery picks with all this "potential" yet they still drafted in the lottery every year. Until they got their one star (we have Booker) and added pieces around them (Clippers brought in Paul for Griffin).

Anyone that would rather have Cousins on this team instead of Irving are straight up crazy.

Post #987 » by **Qwigglez** » Wed Aug 2, 2017 10:23 am

Wait wtf...
Warriors offense is all about misdirection, constant screens, pump fakes, mismatches, getting the open shot. He is guarding arguable the best PG in the world with unlimited range (Curry won MVP this season).
Even in the very first possession at 4 seconds in the clip, Curry uses Tristan Thompson as a screen! Pretends to go through him, and pops back out. Talk about high IQ basketball. Then they use AI for screener, which is smart because Iggy is capable of passing, driving, dribbling, or on a switch against Irving can just post him up.
Second play at around 14 seconds, Curry screens Tristan Thompson under the basket to free up Barnes. It would have been an easy one on one play with Klay to drive to the basket but Tristan Thompson turned his head and noticed Klay driving. Irving made the right move and stayed in the paint because Curry isn't going to do much had he gotten the ball at 5 feet out when the lane was clogged.
18 seconds clip, they run almost the exact same scenario with Iggy trying to screen and create a mismatch of Love guarding Curry and Irving guarding Iggy. The defense makes a good adjustment though it leaves Barnes open in for a 3 in the corner. The offense made the correct moves Barnes just bricked it. I don't see a problem with Irving's D here. He even forced Curry to go to his left to make the pass difficult to Barnes.
31 second clip, another screen that matches Irving with Barnes at the top of the 3 point line. Barnes is 6'8, but he doesn't have the handles or the quickness to just get by Irving. This is a matchup favorable for the Cavs and I would take those odds over Curry having the ball going against Tristan. Good anticipation on the steal. Lebron didn't even help, that was just all Kyrie making a play on the defensive end, which leads to a fast break on the other hand where he finds a cutting Lebron for the slam, this gets the crowd going and likely makes it more difficult for the Warriors to fight through this run.

Could do more analysis but my internet is running slow.

Also, I imagine a lot of you wouldn't want Curry because of his defense too then right?

Watch on YouTube

Curry's stats in 2016 NBA Finals.
22.6 PPG, 40% FG 4.9 rebounds, 3.7 assists, 1 steal per game

Kyrie
27 PPG, 47% FG, 4 rebounds, 4 assists, 2 steals per game

Shank · Post #988 » by **Shank** » Wed Aug 2, 2017 10:36 am

Kyrie/Booker/Jackson

Am I the only one who thinks Booker would LEARN/IMPROVE his game so much from being around Kyrie? Booker is a 20 year old alpha male but also VERY humble and intelligent he realizes he is very good but also only 20 years old with much to learn.

Some interviewer at summer league brought up Josh Jackson to book, Jokingly telling Booker he is a veteran of this team going into his 3rd season and he could teach Jackson a lot and Booker replied I'm already learning new things from him.

I loved that reply.

BOOKER IS A SPONGE

Revived · Post #989 » by **Revived** » Wed Aug 2, 2017 10:48 am

Looking back I wish we would've kept Barbosa cause of the Knight injury and it's not like we needed the cap space for anything anyway.

Mulhollanddrive · Post #990 » by **Mulhollanddrive** » Wed Aug 2, 2017 10:52 am

bwgood77 wrote:Pretty sure Jackson can already be traded. I think it's 30 days and he signed July 3rd I believe...31 days in July.

August 3 is when 30 days have passed which is in 18 hours, so maybe no news is good news.

Post #991 » by **lilfishi22** » Wed Aug 2, 2017 11:56 am

Defense at the PG position is so much less important nowadays. This is the golden age of PG's and with the overwhelming implementation of a pick heavy offense, it makes PG defense almost irrelevant. Both Irving and Curry's offense are in the absolute elite of the elites and great offense always beats great defense.

I just don't put all that much stock in one on one PG defense

Saberestar · Post #992 » by **Saberestar** » Wed Aug 2, 2017 12:10 pm

lilfishi22 wrote:Defense at the PG position is so much less important nowadays. This is the golden age of PG's and with the overwhelming implementation of a pick heavy offense, it makes PG defense almost irrelevant. Both Irving and Curry's offense are in the absolute elite of the elites and great offense always beats great defense.

I just don't put all that much stock in one on one PG defense

Yeah, I agree.

With the rules that we have nowadays to protect ball handlers and shooters is just near impossible to stop a great perimeter player. It's not a coincidence that there are a lot of PGs averaging more than 20 points per game.

And the gap defensively between Bledsoe and Irving is minimal. Bledsoe WAS a good defender some years ago, he needs to rest a lot on defense to be able to produce on offense.

King4Day · Post #993 » by **King4Day** » Wed Aug 2, 2017 12:12 pm

matt131 wrote:Oh also, Tom Rizzo said: "A pretty good source says they believe this Kyrie to Phoenix thing could happen within the next couple days"

Read on Twitter

I hope the Suns brass is reading these forums to gauge fan reaction. You'll be hard pressed for find a single person who would be OK with giving up Jackson.
For me, I'd watch next season but if **** hits the fan, I'd have a hard time supporting an owner who just couldn't wait a little bit longer. I'd rather trade next years pick instead if I had a gun to my head and had to deal one or the other. I wish MCD himself would come out and say that Jackson will not be part of any potential trades.

They'd be mental to deal him. You need defense to cover for Irving and Booker. We're gonna be bad next year until we figure out defensive chemistry.

Saberestar · Post #994 » by **Saberestar** » Wed Aug 2, 2017 12:23 pm

Read on Twitter

Dupp · Post #995 » by **Dupp** » Wed Aug 2, 2017 12:47 pm

denial wrote:
MrMiyagi wrote:
Dambo wrote:

Watch on YouTube

I don't know about you guys, but I see a pretty solid defrnder in this video.

Really? He looks like he gets killed on screens and doesn't communicate that he's not switching.

I agree. I think that video shows me that he is indeed a bad defender as all of you have been saying. Not only does he stick to screens and seem confused. When curry goes at him straight up he beats him every time (despite clanking his layups). Kyrie's feet look slow motion on d, in this video.

As someone that has watched most of his games ever i think hes one of the lowest IQ and effort defenders i have seen. Certainly down the very bottom in the league currently.

carey · Post #996 » by **carey** » Wed Aug 2, 2017 12:53 pm

Saberestar wrote:

Read on Twitter

I just don't see a workable deal with Houston. Do you? No one wants to take that Anderson contract and what other young pieces do the Rockets have? They can't trade Capela now that Harell is gone. I'm not sure Nene can make it through an entire season playing heavy minutes.

Fo-Real · Post #997 » by **Fo-Real** » Wed Aug 2, 2017 1:03 pm

Yep, the only way Huston gets Melo is a buyout I'm thinking.

Shank · Post #998 » by **Shank** » Wed Aug 2, 2017 1:11 pm

Dupp wrote:
denial wrote:
MrMiyagi wrote:Really? He looks like he gets killed on screens and doesn't communicate that he's not switching.

I agree. I think that video shows me that he is indeed a bad defender as all of you have been saying. Not only does he stick to screens and seem confused. When curry goes at him straight up he beats him every time (despite clanking his layups). Kyrie's feet look slow motion on d, in this video.

As someone that has watched most of his games ever i think hes one of the lowest IQ and effort defenders i have seen. Certainly down the very bottom in the league currently.

Yeah and before Kyrie requested to be traded you said his defense was vastly underrated.
:lol:

Post #999 » by **lilfishi22** » Wed Aug 2, 2017 1:15 pm

Dupp wrote:
denial wrote:
MrMiyagi wrote:Really? He looks like he gets killed on screens and doesn't communicate that he's not switching.

I agree. I think that video shows me that he is indeed a bad defender as all of you have been saying. Not only does he stick to screens and seem confused. When curry goes at him straight up he beats him every time (despite clanking his layups). Kyrie's feet look slow motion on d, in this video.

As someone that has watched most of his games ever i think hes one of the lowest IQ and effort defenders i have seen. Certainly down the very bottom in the league currently.

You guys still won a title with him. I'll take him off your hands for just Bledsoe if his defense is as bad as you say.

Dupp · Post #1000 » by **Dupp** » Wed Aug 2, 2017 1:16 pm

Shank wrote:
Dupp wrote:
denial wrote:
I agree. I think that video shows me that he is indeed a bad defender as all of you have been saying. Not only does he stick to screens and seem confused. When curry goes at him straight up he beats him every time (despite clanking his layups). Kyrie's feet look slow motion on d, in this video.

As someone that has watched most of his games ever i think hes one of the lowest IQ and effort defenders i have seen. Certainly down the very bottom in the league currently.

Yeah and before Kyrie requested to be traded you said his defense was vastly underrated.

Nope. I said he was the worst defender in the nba and i wanted to trade him at the start of the trade period before he requested a trade.

Many told me i was ungrateful for wanting to trade him and also IT was the worst defender in the nba.