Hollinger article on Suns' offense
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Hollinger article on Suns' offense
- WTFsunsFTW
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Hollinger article on Suns' offense
Anyone have insider that can give us a summary? Sounds like another "best offense in history" article.
Re: Hollinger article on Suns' offense
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- Sixth Man
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Re: Hollinger article on Suns' offense
We take the Phoenix Suns for granted.
It's been six years since Steve Nash arrived in the desert and the Suns started making scoreboards spin like pinwheels, so perhaps it was inevitable we'd become a bit jaded about their amazing offensive accomplishments. In fact, even the Suns began to take themselves for granted: Witness their brief dalliance with the "Eight Seconds or More" offense under Terry Porter last season.
Writers no longer concoct MVP campaigns for Nash, networks no longer do backflips to get all 82 Suns games on national TV, and nearly everyone dismisses the Suns as contenders.
But the Suns haven't gone away. In fact, they're doing their thing just as well as they ever have.
Quietly, Phoenix is en route to one of the best offensive seasons in NBA history, and the only reason we aren't paying more attention is because we're so used to Steve Nash-directed offenses posting mind-boggling efficiency numbers.
Here's how good they've been: Not only do the Suns lead the league in offensive efficiency by a wide margin, but relative to the league they're on pace for the third-best offensive efficiency season since the league started tracking the stat in 1973-74.
Third-best. Ever. And we've hardly heard a peep about them.
BEST OFFENSES SINCE 1973-74
Team Year Off. Eff. League Average Difference
Dallas 2003-04 109.58 100.05 +9.53
Phoenix 2004-05 111.90 103.07 +8.82
Phoenix 2009-10 112.65 103.99 +8.66
Dallas 2001-02 109.49 101.59 +7.89
Phoenix 2006-07 111.42 103.06 +8.06
Contrast that with 2004-05 -- a performance the Suns could possibly surpass, as they trail by only 0.16 heading into the final week of the season -- when the freshness of the "Seven Seconds or Less" era was still upon us.
Granted, the Suns won a few more games that season because they defended better than this group: 62, compared to a likely 53 this season. But the biggest reason we got caught up in Phoenix Phever was the shocking newness of it. A dominant offensive team built around a point guard? With nobody in the post? And just running and gunning all game like it was 1982 again? It was totally unexpected, and totally unrivaled.
It still is. It just isn't new anymore. But man, does it work. The Suns lead the league in field goal percentage and 3-point percentage and have the league's highest rate of assisted baskets. They've even remedied a weakness from previous years, climbing into the top 10 in offensive rebound rate after perennially ranking at or near the bottom under Mike D'Antoni.
This season, however, it has come with a bit of a twist, especially over the past two months. While those perusing the chart above will note that a certain Canadian fellow has been at the controls of the top five offenses in league annals, of late the Suns have shifted their offensive focus.
Check out these numbers, if you will, from the Suns' first 38 games compared to their most recent 39. As you'll see, 38 games into the season there was no doubt about the focal point of Phoenix's attack. Nash led the team in minutes and usage rate, and by a wide margin in player efficiency rating.
NASH AND STOUDEMIRE, 2009-10
Minutes Usage Rate PER
First 38 games
Nash 1,320 25.66 24.53
Stoudemire 1,281 24.51 20.52
Last 39 games
Nash 1,128 19.67 18.37
Stoudemire 1,376 23.88 24.25
Since then, however, two things have happened. First, Nash's balky back has turned on him a bit. Second, Amare Stoudemire has become much more comfortable after playing his way back into shape in the first half of the season (he couldn't train over the summer while he recovered from a detached retina).
As that has happened, Phoenix has shifted from a Nash offense to an Amare offense. Over the past 39 games, Stoudemire -- not Nash -- is the Suns' leader in minutes, usage rate and PER. He's passed Nash on the PER charts despite being miles behind at midseason, and has a chance to pass him in usage rate, too.
That shift can only go so far, however, as only Nash is able to create shots for the other three guys on the court -- Nash's assist ratio is a superb 39.0, while Stoudemire's is a paltry 4.5. But whether the balance is 60-40 or 40-60, it's the balance between these two dynamic scorers -- or between Nash and Dirk Nowitzki in their Dallas days -- that has enabled each of the five best offenses in the chart above.
Just look at their true shooting numbers. Nash, at 61.3, is second among point guards to Cleveland's little-used Daniel Gibson. Stoudemire, at 61.5, occupies similarly lofty territory on the power forward charts; only Oklahoma City sub Nick Collison and Toronto reserve Amir Johnson outrate him. Having not one but two go-to options that shoot with such devastating efficiency makes defending the Suns a near-impossible task.
It's an amazing tandem and an amazing story. And with Nash getting up in years and Stoudemire possibly departing in free agency, we should get back to appreciating them for however long it is they have left together. Half a decade ago they came together and formed the backbone of one of the best offensive juggernauts in league history … and today, they still do.
It's been six years since Steve Nash arrived in the desert and the Suns started making scoreboards spin like pinwheels, so perhaps it was inevitable we'd become a bit jaded about their amazing offensive accomplishments. In fact, even the Suns began to take themselves for granted: Witness their brief dalliance with the "Eight Seconds or More" offense under Terry Porter last season.
Writers no longer concoct MVP campaigns for Nash, networks no longer do backflips to get all 82 Suns games on national TV, and nearly everyone dismisses the Suns as contenders.
But the Suns haven't gone away. In fact, they're doing their thing just as well as they ever have.
Quietly, Phoenix is en route to one of the best offensive seasons in NBA history, and the only reason we aren't paying more attention is because we're so used to Steve Nash-directed offenses posting mind-boggling efficiency numbers.
Here's how good they've been: Not only do the Suns lead the league in offensive efficiency by a wide margin, but relative to the league they're on pace for the third-best offensive efficiency season since the league started tracking the stat in 1973-74.
Third-best. Ever. And we've hardly heard a peep about them.
BEST OFFENSES SINCE 1973-74
Team Year Off. Eff. League Average Difference
Dallas 2003-04 109.58 100.05 +9.53
Phoenix 2004-05 111.90 103.07 +8.82
Phoenix 2009-10 112.65 103.99 +8.66
Dallas 2001-02 109.49 101.59 +7.89
Phoenix 2006-07 111.42 103.06 +8.06
Contrast that with 2004-05 -- a performance the Suns could possibly surpass, as they trail by only 0.16 heading into the final week of the season -- when the freshness of the "Seven Seconds or Less" era was still upon us.
Granted, the Suns won a few more games that season because they defended better than this group: 62, compared to a likely 53 this season. But the biggest reason we got caught up in Phoenix Phever was the shocking newness of it. A dominant offensive team built around a point guard? With nobody in the post? And just running and gunning all game like it was 1982 again? It was totally unexpected, and totally unrivaled.
It still is. It just isn't new anymore. But man, does it work. The Suns lead the league in field goal percentage and 3-point percentage and have the league's highest rate of assisted baskets. They've even remedied a weakness from previous years, climbing into the top 10 in offensive rebound rate after perennially ranking at or near the bottom under Mike D'Antoni.
This season, however, it has come with a bit of a twist, especially over the past two months. While those perusing the chart above will note that a certain Canadian fellow has been at the controls of the top five offenses in league annals, of late the Suns have shifted their offensive focus.
Check out these numbers, if you will, from the Suns' first 38 games compared to their most recent 39. As you'll see, 38 games into the season there was no doubt about the focal point of Phoenix's attack. Nash led the team in minutes and usage rate, and by a wide margin in player efficiency rating.
NASH AND STOUDEMIRE, 2009-10
Minutes Usage Rate PER
First 38 games
Nash 1,320 25.66 24.53
Stoudemire 1,281 24.51 20.52
Last 39 games
Nash 1,128 19.67 18.37
Stoudemire 1,376 23.88 24.25
Since then, however, two things have happened. First, Nash's balky back has turned on him a bit. Second, Amare Stoudemire has become much more comfortable after playing his way back into shape in the first half of the season (he couldn't train over the summer while he recovered from a detached retina).
As that has happened, Phoenix has shifted from a Nash offense to an Amare offense. Over the past 39 games, Stoudemire -- not Nash -- is the Suns' leader in minutes, usage rate and PER. He's passed Nash on the PER charts despite being miles behind at midseason, and has a chance to pass him in usage rate, too.
That shift can only go so far, however, as only Nash is able to create shots for the other three guys on the court -- Nash's assist ratio is a superb 39.0, while Stoudemire's is a paltry 4.5. But whether the balance is 60-40 or 40-60, it's the balance between these two dynamic scorers -- or between Nash and Dirk Nowitzki in their Dallas days -- that has enabled each of the five best offenses in the chart above.
Just look at their true shooting numbers. Nash, at 61.3, is second among point guards to Cleveland's little-used Daniel Gibson. Stoudemire, at 61.5, occupies similarly lofty territory on the power forward charts; only Oklahoma City sub Nick Collison and Toronto reserve Amir Johnson outrate him. Having not one but two go-to options that shoot with such devastating efficiency makes defending the Suns a near-impossible task.
It's an amazing tandem and an amazing story. And with Nash getting up in years and Stoudemire possibly departing in free agency, we should get back to appreciating them for however long it is they have left together. Half a decade ago they came together and formed the backbone of one of the best offensive juggernauts in league history … and today, they still do.
The Phoenix Suns - 54-28. Projected Record: 54-28 3rd Seed
The Phoenix Suns - 2010-2011 Projected Record: 30-52 3rd lottery pick.
The Phoenix Suns - 2010-2011 Projected Record: 30-52 3rd lottery pick.
Re: Hollinger article on Suns' offense
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Re: Hollinger article on Suns' offense
Come on Rob, get back. Come on refs, don't do us in the playoffs like you did OKC last night. Good stuff.
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Re: Hollinger article on Suns' offense
strangely, Suns fans have hated Amare most of the time.
Re: Hollinger article on Suns' offense
- Miklo
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Re: Hollinger article on Suns' offense
hahahaha at first I wasn't paying attention and thought you wrote that whole thing hunter
Re: Hollinger article on Suns' offense
- lilfishi22
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Re: Hollinger article on Suns' offense
ESPN really has to re-evaluate what should and shouldn't be an Insider article. This article is a complete waste of money imo, there's nothing in here that we don't already know. But I guess they gotta make their money somehow.
Re: Hollinger article on Suns' offense
- JohnVancouver
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Re: Hollinger article on Suns' offense
lilfishi22 wrote:ESPN really has to re-evaluate what should and shouldn't be an Insider article. This article is a complete waste of money imo, there's nothing in here that we don't already know. But I guess they gotta make their money somehow.
I'm tempted from time to time but then I read an Insider piece and just put my wallet back in my pants ...
"They've even remedied a weakness from previous years, climbing into the top 10 in offensive rebound rate after perennially ranking at or near the bottom"
That surprises the hell out of me.
I still think if we added a tough defender at the 2, who could shoot the three ....
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Re: Hollinger article on Suns' offense
- lilfishi22
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Re: Hollinger article on Suns' offense
JohnVancouver wrote:lilfishi22 wrote:ESPN really has to re-evaluate what should and shouldn't be an Insider article. This article is a complete waste of money imo, there's nothing in here that we don't already know. But I guess they gotta make their money somehow.
I'm tempted from time to time but then I read an Insider piece and just put my wallet back in my pants ...
Some of their daily dime articles and non-insider articles are just as good if not better than their insider stuff, this is why I don't think it's worth paying for an insider subscription. But then I guess we're not paying for the article, we're paying for Hollinger's view. Sometimes I think their draft coverage could be worth paying subscription then I remember there's draftexpress.
"They've even remedied a weakness from previous years, climbing into the top 10 in offensive rebound rate after perennially ranking at or near the bottom"
That surprises the hell out of me.
Surprised just as you are.
I still think if we added a tough defender at the 2, who could shoot the three ....
Like maybe an Iguodala? I don't see what the big deal with him getting overpaid is. He's overpaid, yes, but I think he's worth his contract considering he's still young, he defends, make plays and can score. The only other guy available who can do those things is JJ and people are talking about him getting close to a max deal. Don't forget he's getting up there with age as well.
He's not worth giving up Amare for but with him in the lineup with Nash, Amare and Lopez and we're ballin'.
Re: Hollinger article on Suns' offense
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- Sixth Man
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Re: Hollinger article on Suns' offense
insider is like 20$ a year, if you're too poor to afford that... then i can't help ya.
The Phoenix Suns - 54-28. Projected Record: 54-28 3rd Seed
The Phoenix Suns - 2010-2011 Projected Record: 30-52 3rd lottery pick.
The Phoenix Suns - 2010-2011 Projected Record: 30-52 3rd lottery pick.
Re: Hollinger article on Suns' offense
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Re: Hollinger article on Suns' offense
JohnVancouver wrote:lilfishi22 wrote:ESPN really has to re-evaluate what should and shouldn't be an Insider article. This article is a complete waste of money imo, there's nothing in here that we don't already know. But I guess they gotta make their money somehow.
I'm tempted from time to time but then I read an Insider piece and just put my wallet back in my pants ...
"They've even remedied a weakness from previous years, climbing into the top 10 in offensive rebound rate after perennially ranking at or near the bottom"
That surprises the hell out of me.
I still think if we added a tough defender at the 2, who could shoot the three ....
Wes Matthews. Big, strong, good defender and can hit the 3...Seems like a perfect fit
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- Bench Warmer
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Re: Hollinger article on Suns' offense
Matthews sounds like a good FA target if we can pry him away from the Jazz. He shouldn't be too expensive either. If we do get him, hopefully he can be as good as another undrafted SG who signed with us after playing for the Jazz. 

Re: Hollinger article on Suns' offense
- WTFsunsFTW
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Re: Hollinger article on Suns' offense
Wes matthews is not that good of a shooter.
If we're not going to get a primo shooter at the 2 then I am all for an Iggy-JRich swap if Philly wants to shed future payroll. That may also intrigue Amare to stay if he is guaranteed a stud SG and Nash and Lopez for the next 3 years. 17M Amare, 12M Iggy 12MNash 3M Lopez= Only 44M for your starting 4. Thats also 10M left to spend once Ben Wallace's contract comes off the books for a resigned frye and lou and a collins replacement (which will total less than 10).
That puts us at ~72M (currently projected at 62M for 2010/11), just flirting with the presumed tax level next year. The only thing we would have to worry about in the next 3 years would be a Hill replacement, and if Clark would hurry up and blossom it could be a non issue.
We dont need to be players in the 2010 free agent orgy, we need to stay the course. Sooner or later the best offense in history will push through to the finals.
NAsh/Dragic
[Iggy]/Barbosa
Hill/Dudley/Clark
Amare/Lou
Lopez/Frye
Thats a promising lineup that can stick together for 3 years guaranteed. Length, athletics, offense, blocking, speed, shooting, leadership.
If we're not going to get a primo shooter at the 2 then I am all for an Iggy-JRich swap if Philly wants to shed future payroll. That may also intrigue Amare to stay if he is guaranteed a stud SG and Nash and Lopez for the next 3 years. 17M Amare, 12M Iggy 12MNash 3M Lopez= Only 44M for your starting 4. Thats also 10M left to spend once Ben Wallace's contract comes off the books for a resigned frye and lou and a collins replacement (which will total less than 10).
That puts us at ~72M (currently projected at 62M for 2010/11), just flirting with the presumed tax level next year. The only thing we would have to worry about in the next 3 years would be a Hill replacement, and if Clark would hurry up and blossom it could be a non issue.
We dont need to be players in the 2010 free agent orgy, we need to stay the course. Sooner or later the best offense in history will push through to the finals.
NAsh/Dragic
[Iggy]/Barbosa
Hill/Dudley/Clark
Amare/Lou
Lopez/Frye
Thats a promising lineup that can stick together for 3 years guaranteed. Length, athletics, offense, blocking, speed, shooting, leadership.
Re: Hollinger article on Suns' offense
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Re: Hollinger article on Suns' offense
dantian wrote:strangely, Suns fans have hated Amare most of the time.
No kidding. Amare had a game high points and rebounds in a win against the Spurs and people still don't think he did enough. Hate to say it but if he does leave this summer I bet fans of his new team will have a greater appreciation for him.