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There are a couple of guys out there on ESPN who are saying that PHX won't have the cap after the Frye deal to consider guys like Dirk or some other FA, and I just wanted to call them out for being wrong....small wonder, eh? Frye's deal is agreed to in principle using the MLE which they will still be allowed to use. They will simply wait to actually sign the deal with Frye until we have worked on the other deals that we want to help fill the marquee position in our lineup. There will still be more done here to build our team. Stacking singings is one way for teams to get the most out of their cap. If we dropped Barbosa we WOULD still be able to go after Dirk, as we would be within $1/2 mil or less of Dirk's Max contract which would start at roughly $19.25 mil (35% of the cap of $55mil). We would also still be able to go after a bevy of other smaller contracts too, right up to the $55 million mark, if I'm not mistaken. More can be garnered if we are able to get the $17.5 mil TPE out of the deal as well.

Name your target (s) for the remaining money.

I say Dirk after we move Barbosa- he is the highest profile and best player out there who's shooting will fit in great with our style. The downside is that Frye's skillset is a little redundant with Dirk around.

I have a hard time seeing Sarver pay the luxury tax...

SideSwipe wrote:There are a couple of guys out there on ESPN who are saying that PHX won't have the cap after the Frye deal to consider guys like Dirk or some other FA, and I just wanted to call them out for being wrong....small wonder, eh? Frye's deal is agreed to in principle using the MLE which they will still be allowed to use. They will simply wait to actually sign the deal with Frye until we have worked on the other deals that we want to help fill the marquee position in our lineup. There will still be more done here to build our team. Stacking singings is one way for teams to get the most out of their cap. If we dropped Barbosa we WOULD still be able to go after Dirk, as we would be within $1/2 mil or less of Dirk's Max contract which would start at roughly $19.25 mil (35% of the cap of $55mil). We would also still be able to go after a bevy of other smaller contracts too, right up to the $55 million mark, if I'm not mistaken. More can be garnered if we are able to get the $17.5 mil TPE out of the deal as well.

Name your target (s) for the remaining money.

I say Dirk after we move Barbosa- he is the highest profile and best player out there who's shooting will fit in great with our style. The downside is that Frye's skillset is a little redundant with Dirk around.

We would only have had like 12 million if Amare walked before the Frye signing, but since we signed Frye for like 6 million, now we only have 6 million left(the MLE still counts against the cap). Even if we moved Barbosa for nothing(which we can't do...Miami can't move Beasley for nothing), we'd have 13 million, which is a far cry from the 17-19 million you'd need for Dirk.

Of course, if we do a sign and trade for Amare for a 16 million TPE, THEN things get interesting.

rsavaj wrote:
We would only have had like 12 million if Amare walked before the Frye signing, but since we signed Frye for like 6 million, now we only have 6 million left(the MLE still counts against the cap). Even if we moved Barbosa for nothing(which we can't do...Miami can't move Beasley for nothing), we'd have 13 million, which is a far cry from the 17-19 million you'd need for Dirk.

Of course, if we do a sign and trade for Amare for a 16 million TPE, THEN things get interesting.

We havent actually signed frye yet right? So if we ship LB, miraculously signed dirk, then signed frye in that order its possible. You can exceed the cap if your signing your own guy or using the MLE. i might be wrong in trying to understand what your saying.

JPHX wrote:

rsavaj wrote:
We would only have had like 12 million if Amare walked before the Frye signing, but since we signed Frye for like 6 million, now we only have 6 million left(the MLE still counts against the cap). Even if we moved Barbosa for nothing(which we can't do...Miami can't move Beasley for nothing), we'd have 13 million, which is a far cry from the 17-19 million you'd need for Dirk.

Of course, if we do a sign and trade for Amare for a 16 million TPE, THEN things get interesting.

We havent actually signed frye yet right? So if we ship LB, miraculously signed dirk, then signed frye in that order its possible. You can exceed the cap if your signing your own guy or using the MLE. i might be wrong in trying to understand what your saying.

Well actually the only way we could ship LB and then miraculously sign Dirk would be to renounce Amare's rights(which then gets us 12-13 mill under the cap) and then clear LB's salary(impossible, but hypothetically another 7 mill which gets us to 20 mill). Sure, you can use that 20 million on Dirk, but once you're UNDER the cap(which we would be after we renounced Amare's rights/he walked) then you lose your ability to use the MLE.

So, let's say Amare walks=13 million
move LB=13+7=20 million

-Dirk's contract=17 million

Leftover=3 million....and Frye costs 6 million, so Frye's gone. If we had bird rights on Frye(if he was with us for more than 1 year), then we could go over the cap to re-sign him, but we can't go over the cap to re-sign him since we don't have his bird rights, and at this point we can't use the MLE to sign him(because we forfeit that once Amare walks), so unless Frye now agrees to a 5 year/15 million dollar offer, you lose Frye.

So it would be Amare+LB+Frye all out for Dirk.

Wait Amare opted out. So technically he is no longer a sun and therefore we no longer have his rights, correct? So your saying that we can no longer use our MLE? The same MLE thats agreed to in principle to Frye?

JPHX wrote:Wait Amare opted out. So technically he is no longer a sun and therefore we no longer have his rights, correct? So your saying that we can no longer use our MLE? The same MLE thats agreed to in principle to Frye?

He opted out but we still have his rights(we can give him more money/more years than anyone else, 120ish million/6 years). Until he signs with another team, he still has a cap hold that counts on our cap, so we're still over the cap and thus we can still use the MLE to sign Frye.

How much cap does he hold on our payroll?

JPHX wrote:How much cap does he hold on our payroll?

Amare Stoudemire $17,197,241 Bird; 105% of Previous Salary

It is still possible, if Dirk would be okay with a salary starting at $17.197 mil. or the equivalent of a max contract for Amare. We would send out Amare for a 2nd and a TPE, then turn around and give Dallas that same 2nd and maybe another asset to grab Dirk in a S&T, otherwise maybe Dirk takes a shot at joining PHX for less. I can't imagine there aren't going to be some conversations about this around the table at Nash's house.

As if any team is taking on Barbosa at this point right now, hilarious.

We are **** stop lying to yourself. Say hello to a 40 win season. Not a chance in hell we will contend for anything.

Best case we might put up a fight for the last playoff spot and then get smoked.

That seems to be what Sarver wants instead of rebuilding the team.

MarJJMar wrote:As if any team is taking on Barbosa at this point right now, hilarious.

We are **** stop lying to yourself. Say hello to a 40 win season. Not a chance in hell we will contend for anything.

Best case we might put up a fight for the last playoff spot and then get smoked.

That seems to be what Sarver wants instead of rebuilding the team.

We all said the same thing last offseason lol. Just relax.

mh, it all depends what clark is going to offer us if he turns out to be a beast than he could replace 10 points and 8 rebounds from ama´re, haha
and btw. d´antoni loves barbosa. the knicks could resign him and trade him to us for barbs. it seems that d´antoni loves his ex suns players..

MarJJMar wrote:As if any team is taking on Barbosa at this point right now, hilarious.

We are **** stop lying to yourself. Say hello to a 40 win season. Not a chance in hell we will contend for anything.

Best case we might put up a fight for the last playoff spot and then get smoked.

That seems to be what Sarver wants instead of rebuilding the team.

Chill dude. Free agency has just started and it ain't over yet.
I've said it once and I'll say it again. Sarver getting rid of picks for cash maybe an attempt to get rid of something the team back then didn't need and save some cash at the same time. What he does in this year's free agency will determine his willingness to build a winning franchise, and whether if he's the owner we believe he is.

And I don't understand why someone wants Dirk. I mean he's a really good player, but a player we need is someone who can bang up in the post, not some 7 ft tall perimeter shooter. Yes he has a low post game, but not that good of a low post game. Our system is highly dependent on pick and rolls. I highly doubt Dirk will be a good "roll" player.
I'm still on the Lee bandwagon.

Dirk and David Lee are pipe dreams and wont be signed, the Suns may make some general inquiry or some half assed attempt to make it look to us fans that they are being diligent, but they are way beyond the money available or what our owner would be willing to spend, in retrospect so was Amare

MarMar is absolutely right in his pessimism, we are being sold a con job. They were never all that serious in dealing with Amare in good faith or they would have given him the market value of what is being commanded in this free agency. They knew the cost of business from the get go and if it wasn't evident in the beginning its hard to imagine anyone being oblivious to what those 6 or 7 teams are goign to spend on the top tier free agents when players like Amir Johnson, Drew Godden Rudy Gay Joe johnson got paid what they did. It was pretty obvious it was going to take a 6 year max to resign Amare.''

Dirk is not settling for less, David Lee will now get an offer of at least 15mil and maybe max by one of the teams that lost out on Amare and Bosh, Boozer will get maxed or near maxed

The team you see now is pretty much what we will have this coming season and Kerr i think saw this inevitability and took his ball and went home.

Sarver is more content on saving and cutting cost now than actually contending, he's betting on the blind faithful to carry him as he sells "we did all we could and we still have Nash and the team full of heart to support" line of BS to us gullible fans.

and yes i have been highly critical and pessimistic since i realized Sarver was never as much about winning as making it appear he is about winning and more about appeasing and i was extremely surprised at the success the team had last year. It was my favorite version of the Suns in a very long time and possibly ever in the 30 plus years i've been a fan, but that was in spite of Sarver and not because of him. It was Gentry, Kerr ( who i wrongly accused of being responsible for the bad decisions i saw made by the FO) and having the right mix of vets and hungry young players.

those same players remaining will again play their heart out and do all they can but if you sincerely think this team will be close to as good as it was by removing Amare, you are emphatically wrong in my opinion. Amare had limitations but without that post presence we have a bunch of guys parked on the perimeter and Nash in constant dribble mode and teams wont have any reason to sag off those three pointers anymore to clog the paint.

i am so frustrated after the high of last year to see us once again take a back step due to cost like we did with the JJ situation.

rsavaj wrote:Well actually the only way we could ship LB and then miraculously sign Dirk would be to renounce Amare's rights(which then gets us 12-13 mill under the cap) and then clear LB's salary(impossible, but hypothetically another 7 mill which gets us to 20 mill). Sure, you can use that 20 million on Dirk, but once you're UNDER the cap(which we would be after we renounced Amare's rights/he walked) then you lose your ability to use the MLE.

So, let's say Amare walks=13 million
move LB=13+7=20 million

-Dirk's contract=17 million

Leftover=3 million....and Frye costs 6 million, so Frye's gone. If we had bird rights on Frye(if he was with us for more than 1 year), then we could go over the cap to re-sign him, but we can't go over the cap to re-sign him since we don't have his bird rights, and at this point we can't use the MLE to sign him(because we forfeit that once Amare walks), so unless Frye now agrees to a 5 year/15 million dollar offer, you lose Frye.

So it would be Amare+LB+Frye all out for Dirk.

It's actually $13m + $7m (TPE). You can't sign Dirk unless he'll sign for $13m since you can't use the TPE to sign players. TPE money is different to cap room money.

Not that it really matters but just FYI.

I understand why some of you are extremely pessimistic. All those moves he made in the past leads to that. Some of you are just taking it harder than I do. That's all.
But for whatever reasons, I'm still remaining optimistic. Don't ask me why. I just have the feeling.

Like I've said in previous posts, what Robert Sarver does this year will make him either the don or a dead fish.

So, for the Suns cap - this to me is the best possibility for moving LB

Knicks sign Amare and agree to S&T
Suns take back a trade exception which Sarver may or may not use
Suns also take back Eddy Curry and either buy him out or get his butt in shape as I believe he has only one year left on his deal
Suns move LB as part of S&T to play for Mike and Dan again

Suns could also take Eddy Curry and move him to Hornets for West as they would want the cap savings

So our only possiblitiy to get David Lee is a Sign and Trade (or dumping Barbs to those sucker Knicks... ) ? I'm going to go down fighting for DLee, thats for sure

lilfishi22 wrote:

rsavaj wrote:Well actually the only way we could ship LB and then miraculously sign Dirk would be to renounce Amare's rights(which then gets us 12-13 mill under the cap) and then clear LB's salary(impossible, but hypothetically another 7 mill which gets us to 20 mill). Sure, you can use that 20 million on Dirk, but once you're UNDER the cap(which we would be after we renounced Amare's rights/he walked) then you lose your ability to use the MLE.

So, let's say Amare walks=13 million
move LB=13+7=20 million

-Dirk's contract=17 million

Leftover=3 million....and Frye costs 6 million, so Frye's gone. If we had bird rights on Frye(if he was with us for more than 1 year), then we could go over the cap to re-sign him, but we can't go over the cap to re-sign him since we don't have his bird rights, and at this point we can't use the MLE to sign him(because we forfeit that once Amare walks), so unless Frye now agrees to a 5 year/15 million dollar offer, you lose Frye.

So it would be Amare+LB+Frye all out for Dirk.

It's actually $13m + $7m (TPE). You can't sign Dirk unless he'll sign for $13m since you can't use the TPE to sign players. TPE money is different to cap room money.

Not that it really matters but just FYI.

Technically, a TPE would be created in the Barbosa transaction, but all we would have to do is renounce the exception in order to be able to employ the cap space. You would also have to renounce the TPE created in the Amare disposition.

If we traded Amare to the Knicks on his max contract, we would create a "Max" TPE for ourselves.