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I can't understand it; is this not a good line-up? Is this not a legitimate match-up nightmare?

Nash
JRich
Turk
Frye
Lopez

We have EVERYTHING WE NEED, no? Spacing, 4 shooters, size/length, speed, lowpost defense, and ball handlers, what am I missing?

I guess you're missing defense but I don't think anyone cares about that...

Calvin Klein wrote:I guess you're missing defense but I don't think anyone cares about that...

What didn't you understand about lowpost defense? BTW, when Orlando beat Cleveland in the East Finals last year, guess who guarded James?

I'm sure Hedo at the 4 will provide better defense than Frye at the four. BTW, Frye was getting pretty good on defense.

Why did you feel the need to make a new thread for something like this where there are obvious threads currently going on about it?

If Lopez/Frye play together, Frye would probably be better off playing center and Lopez as a PF. Would create more mismatch problems.

MaryvalesFinest wrote:If Lopez/Frye play together, Frye would probably be better off playing center and Lopez as a PF. Would create more mismatch problems.

It doesn't really matter which position either of them play when they are out there together. The other teams defense will match up with them by who can guard each the best. Just because someone says they are playing PF, doesn't mean the opposing PF needs to guard them. Same with C.

Your argument makes no sense.

grumpysaddle wrote:

MaryvalesFinest wrote:If Lopez/Frye play together, Frye would probably be better off playing center and Lopez as a PF. Would create more mismatch problems.

It doesn't really matter which position either of them play when they are out there together. The other teams defense will match up with them by who can guard each the best. Just because someone says they are playing PF, doesn't mean the opposing PF needs to guard them. Same with C.

Your argument makes no sense.

I meant the positions, not who they guard or who guards them.

JMac1 wrote:I can't understand it; is this not a good line-up? Is this not a legitimate match-up nightmare?

Nash
JRich
Turk
Frye
Lopez

We have EVERYTHING WE NEED, no? Spacing, 4 shooters, size/length, speed, lowpost defense, and ball handlers, what am I missing?

You're absolutely correct. That is a great lineup.

BUT:

You forget to address the bench issue now. What in the world are Hill, Dudley, and Childress going to do coming off the bench? Each player is going to get 10 minutes a piece? LOL

With your starting five, Hill Dudley and Josh will be at war for minutes. Not a good thing.

I'd love your lineup - IF - Suns can manage to trade Grant Hill away for a real Center or PF.

And trading Earl Clark for a 3rd string PG would be nice too instead of bringing in Dowdell or Janning.

The lineup is pretty good but I'm still not happy with our starting PF situation. I don't want Frye to start and I don't want Turk to start at PF, and Warrick likely won't be enough of a producer to start. That's our biggest weakness in my eyes.

On this team a 3rd string point guard is like a waterboy; it's nice to have a good one but it doesn't affect the outcome of the game at all.

Sunsman44 wrote:You're absolutely correct. That is a great lineup.

BUT:

You forget to address the bench issue now. What in the world are Hill, Dudley, and Childress going to do coming off the bench? Each player is going to get 10 minutes a piece? LOL

With your starting five, Hill Dudley and Josh will be at war for minutes. Not a good thing.

I'd love your lineup - IF - Suns can manage to trade Grant Hill away for a real Center or PF.

And trading Earl Clark for a 3rd string PG would be nice too instead of bringing in Dowdell or Janning.

I know, so we soften up our best available line-up, because of the bench?

Miklo wrote:The lineup is pretty good but I'm still not happy with our starting PF situation. I don't want Frye to start and I don't want Turk to start at PF, and Warrick likely won't be enough of a producer to start. That's our biggest weakness in my eyes.

On this team a 3rd string point guard is like a waterboy; it's nice to have a good one but it doesn't affect the outcome of the game at all.

Why not start Frye? Spot up shooter on offense, no need to post up. Play post defense on the opposing team's PF. I would rather start Hill and bring Turk off of the bench. I would say start Warrick, but he'd mess up the spacing. Since we don't have Amare, we will need SUPREME spac for Turk and Lopez to operate.


I just think it is idiotic not to start this line-up. We can't play zone the whole season!

MaryvalesFinest wrote:

grumpysaddle wrote:

MaryvalesFinest wrote:If Lopez/Frye play together, Frye would probably be better off playing center and Lopez as a PF. Would create more mismatch problems.

It doesn't really matter which position either of them play when they are out there together. The other teams defense will match up with them by who can guard each the best. Just because someone says they are playing PF, doesn't mean the opposing PF needs to guard them. Same with C.

Your argument makes no sense.

I meant the positions, not who they guard or who guards them.

What difference does it make though, PF and C are just names. Frye wouldn't be like a traditional center and play in the post. So you COULD say he's the center, but what difference does that make to anything at all?

Sunsman44 wrote:
And trading Earl Clark for a 3rd string PG would be nice too instead of bringing in Dowdell or Janning.

Uhmmm.. How about no? I'ld rather sign Dowdell or Janning because they wont be getting much minutes as a 3rd string PG anyway

Earl Clark is complete garbage. What has he done in Summer League to make u think he plays good? Nothing. Will he get playing time? Heck no. The guy should, will, and must be traded ASAP because he cannot remember plays and has not been productive. Paul Coro on Earl Clark:

"Back to the Earl Clark topic. Is he a tradable commodity at this point? He has potential, a discernible NBA talent (versatile defense) and a contract with no guaranteed money after this season. But it's hard to see how he is going to get on the floor for the Suns with 10 rotation players appearing to be ahead of him (Nash, Richardson, Hill, Turkoglu, Lopez for a starting unit and Dragic, Childress, Dudley, Warrick and Frye for a bench unit). After playing the least of any rookie first-rounder not named B.J. Mullens last season, you wonder whether another team would have bigger plans for him and would be willing to sacrifice a low first-rounder to do so. To figure out what he has to learn, Clark has to play ... and remember plays." -Coro

http://www.azcentral.com/members/Blog/PaulCoro/91475

I think it essential that we get to see hedo play with the team first before we postulate who should start where. I honestly dont know which hedo will show up. I dont know what his approach? will he be the team guy who wants the ball on his hands or will he be more embracing a more versatile role?

I would start hedo over frye. I think Frye just plays better off the bench.

JMac1 wrote:I know, so we soften up our best available line-up, because of the bench?

Yes. Exactly. You soften your best-available starting five b/c you will have bench conflict. If you have bench conflict, you don't have good bench, you don't have chemistry, and you lose games.

Your bench and your chemistry play a bigger role in winning that "best available five."

Again. You dismiss answering my question:

With your proposed lineup, how/when will Dudley, Hill, and Childress (all 6-7, 6-8 wings) distribute playing time? Who is Hedo's backup? Who is left out? Will Grant Hill be happy to be demoted from starter to third stringer? Was Childress signed for $33 million to be a third-stringer?

Answer my questions.

Sunsman44 wrote:Earl Clark is complete garbage. What has he done in Summer League to make u think he plays good? Nothing. Will he get playing time? Heck no. The guy should, will, and must be traded ASAP because he cannot remember plays and has not been productive. Paul Coro on Earl Clark:

"Back to the Earl Clark topic. Is he a tradable commodity at this point? He has potential, a discernible NBA talent (versatile defense) and a contract with no guaranteed money after this season. But it's hard to see how he is going to get on the floor for the Suns with 10 rotation players appearing to be ahead of him (Nash, Richardson, Hill, Turkoglu, Lopez for a starting unit and Dragic, Childress, Dudley, Warrick and Frye for a bench unit). After playing the least of any rookie first-rounder not named B.J. Mullens last season, you wonder whether another team would have bigger plans for him and would be willing to sacrifice a low first-rounder to do so. To figure out what he has to learn, Clark has to play ... and remember plays." -Coro

http://www.azcentral.com/members/Blog/PaulCoro/91475

Oh please... Give me a break. When we drafted Earl we knew he would be a long term project. So why is everyone expecting him to be to great so early? Its only his second season. So give me a break about the whole "trade Earl Clark" thing.

Da_Reel_Kboy wrote:

Sunsman44 wrote:Earl Clark is complete garbage. What has he done in Summer League to make u think he plays good? Nothing. Will he get playing time? Heck no. The guy should, will, and must be traded ASAP because he cannot remember plays and has not been productive. Paul Coro on Earl Clark:

"Back to the Earl Clark topic. Is he a tradable commodity at this point? He has potential, a discernible NBA talent (versatile defense) and a contract with no guaranteed money after this season. But it's hard to see how he is going to get on the floor for the Suns with 10 rotation players appearing to be ahead of him (Nash, Richardson, Hill, Turkoglu, Lopez for a starting unit and Dragic, Childress, Dudley, Warrick and Frye for a bench unit). After playing the least of any rookie first-rounder not named B.J. Mullens last season, you wonder whether another team would have bigger plans for him and would be willing to sacrifice a low first-rounder to do so. To figure out what he has to learn, Clark has to play ... and remember plays." -Coro

http://www.azcentral.com/members/Blog/PaulCoro/91475

Oh please... Give me a break. When we drafted Earl we knew he would be a long term project. So why is everyone expecting him to be to great so early? Its only his second season. So give me a break about the whole "trade Earl Clark" thing.

Don't "oh please" me. Go e-mail Coro and tell him he should not have written that. LOL

Bottom line: Earl Clark has downgraded this Summer - playing worse against inferior, less talented summer-league guys. He did absolutely nothing spectacular. Every single draft-pick from last season's class has out-performed Clark regardless of how much or how little they played. Even BJ Mullens playing better. LOL

Give it up, man. Clark is no good. Nor is your sig.

I still see plenty of potential in Clark but the fact is, he's been disappointing so far. I could overlook his entire rookie season as not getting enough minutes to really perform but he did nothing spectacular in the Summer league against competition that isn't at the NBA level. He had a great opportunity to put his doubters/haters and critics to rest by showing up at the SL but he let that opportunity slip by. Even Lawal was a big surprise and was quite productive. He took the opportunity to show case his talents and now has a contract with the Suns. Is Lawal more talented than EC? Nope. But he did everything he needed to be the best player he can be and that player is better than EC right now.

EC has the tools to be a Lamar Odom type offensive player with Shawn Marion type versatile defense, but the guy has to get it together and perform. Project or not, I can't say I've seen all that much from him that tells me he has what it takes to put together those talents and tool into an NBA level skill.

lilfishi22 wrote:I still see plenty of potential in Clark but the fact is, he's been disappointing so far. I could overlook his entire rookie season as not getting enough minutes to really perform but he did nothing spectacular in the Summer league against competition that isn't at the NBA level. He had a great opportunity to put his doubters/haters and critics to rest by showing up at the SL but he let that opportunity slip by. Even Lawal was a big surprise and was quite productive. He took the opportunity to show case his talents and now has a contract with the Suns. Is Lawal more talented than EC? Nope. But he did everything he needed to be the best player he can be and that player is better than EC right now.

EC has the tools to be a Lamar Odom type offensive player with Shawn Marion type versatile defense, but the guy has to get it together and perform. Project or not, I can't say I've seen all that much from him that tells me he has what it takes to put together those talents and tool into an NBA level skill.

yup. exactly. 100% correct assessment.

It's a gimmicry lineup. The 3pt shooters won't make any difference if they don't have space for getting off their shots. So, you wanna have the team rely on Hedo's one-on-one plays to create that open looks? That's what's wrong with this lineup.