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I find it very concerning that they are taking the position that calling these ridiculous T's on players for having ANY reaction to foul calls. It is completely irrational to think the players will have no emotion during a game. These are pro athletes that are very competitive in nature and actually have to be to get to the level they are at. You can't honestly expect a player, who is busting his tail on defense and in his mind made a very good defensive play and forced a tough shot by the man he is covering only to hear the refs whistle blow for a foul on him, not to spin around and raise his hands in the air as to say "for what?" That is a natural human reaction. What makes it even more ridiculous is that the NBA is saying those reactions are "disrespecting" the game. That is just hilarious........

In my honest opinion, I think they are looking to remove any accountability from the refs. If you can not question a call the ref has made because if you do you will be T'd up with with a fine that has doubled in value to the tune of $2000 for the first few then jumps up to $5000 per T, where is the accountablility for these refs going to come from ?? If no one can question their performance, what is going to stop them from influencing the outcome of games, intentional or accidental either way this lack of accountability on the refs will influence the outcome of many games. In light of the game fixing scandal in the last few years it is obvious that there are some refs that are less than ethical, and in my opinion this will open the door for it to continue if not get worse.

Even with all that aside, I think it will hurt the game in terms of disrupting the flow of a game, changing the competitive level for one team or the other by giving out T's for ridiculous reasons such as the the T that got Grant Hill and Reggie Evans ejected last night. I saw nothing wrong with what the two of them were doing, if anything it shows the level of "gamesmanship" that is present at this level of play. Just my opinion, but what do you guys think ???

I think the ref from last night was just homophobic. He was all... "oh, noez! ass-pats... I want to be a part... oh wait, no, that's ghey... EJECTED!"

I agree with your point about accountability. I understand the NBA's stance on wanting the players to ease off the "reactions" on bad/no-calls since it makes the refs lose credibility if done on a consistent basis. But a lot of those reactions are part of human nature and have been part of sports since before basketball and I think calling quick T's on these little things does a bit away from the game.

In terms of disrupting the flow of the game, I think getting the players to stop arguing calls will help the flow of the game. So often you see guys like Nash walk back on defense while shouting at the refs for the no-call. It does take accountability away from the refs, but it also keeps the flow of the game going. In this respect, I think it goes both ways, you either allow the arguing and kill the flow of the game or you cut that out and let the game go on.

Overall though, I think the refs do a fine job 95% of the time. There's maybe 5 terribly officiated games a season per team and there's 30 teams so that's 150 bad games per season out of 2460 games NBA wide. Obviously, as a fan, we all want a perfectly reffed game and I have to say there are way more well reffed games than there are bad games, but the refs are human and unless you take them out and use video reffing, those human errors (and biases if you believe in that) will always be there. I think the NBA is right to T up players who argue calls during play but I definitely think players should have the right to ask why a call was made if it's a dead ball situation.

I think we all know what I think about the refs, and their dic..tator Stern.

I agree with you lilfishi22, but the way they have explained it, this year the players can't have any reaction, not raising your hands to signify " I had my hands straight up" without saying a word, just that motion in itself is enough to warrant a T. If a player hears the whislte, turns and runs down the court the ref can see that as showing him up and call a T, if a player, while running down the floor to get back on defense slaps at his arm to signify he was fouled, they can T him up, if a player is called for a foul and freezes in his tracks and has a look of disbelief at the ref he can get T'd up, last night to players were slapping each other on the rear, in my opinion, to say "aight, I got you, I got you, c'mon bring it" or something of that nature, nothing violent or "disrespectful" in my opinion anyway, with no reaction toward the ref's in anyway, they get T'd up and ejected, mind you one of them is a three time NBA sportsmanship award winner, it is situations like these that I think will disrupt the flow of the game, having to stop the game to shoot free throws for the T's.

Now I fully understand the T's for the fist air punch, the running up to the refs face to argue the call, even the calm "waive off" from the player, I don't have a problem with things like that because those types of things are disrespectful to the refs and the game. It just appears to me that they want absolutely no reaction whatsoever, and that is just ridiculous. Sometimes players react in disgust for themselves for reaching because they got burned and they knew better than to reach but did it anyway, so when the whistle blows they may jump up and down in place disgusted with themselves but they can get T'd up for that as well. I do agree however if a player is consistently questioning the ref, the ref can lose credibility, but they have handled that just fine over the past few years, well at least for the most part, star players still had a longer leash than others, which made the ref's seem inconsistent in their handling of the situation..

He's trying to turn NBA into WWE.

Will read your thread later.

Kerrsed wrote:

Actually Kerrsed, it's not. This is not about the "conspiracy" threads, but more about the rules changes for this year...

JasonDaPsycho wrote:He's trying to turn NBA into WWE.

Will read your thread later.

You mean it hasn't been that for years? It seems more like a show claiming to be a reality show, but it has writers and script makers.

**** David Stern and **** this new rule.

David Stern is gay.

I think the Reggie and Hill tech's were reasonable. The refs didn't T them up simply for butt tapping, it was how it happened. Hill did it first and then Reggie did it back. So far no techs were called. It was after Hill did it again and then a few words were exchanged that the ref gave them techs.

Haha, just caught the butt tapping.


Tamia: So Hun, how'd the game go tonight.

Grant: Terrible, we lost by 51 and I got tossed.

Tamia: What did you do?

Grant: Butt slapped Reggie Evans.

Tamia: I think I want a divorce....

HSOB SIRHC wrote:I think the Reggie and Hill tech's were reasonable. The refs didn't T them up simply for butt tapping, it was how it happened. Hill did it first and then Reggie did it back. So far no techs were called. It was after Hill did it again and then a few words were exchanged that the ref gave them techs.

You're right. Those butt-taps were the most malice-filled butt-taps I have ever seen.

Thank God the refs stopped that from escalating. If they hadn't, the butt-tapping could have gotten out of hand. You remeber that horrible butt-tapping incident back in '98? Wouldn't want another one of those.....

I mean seriously.

Sun Scorched wrote:

HSOB SIRHC wrote:I think the Reggie and Hill tech's were reasonable. The refs didn't T them up simply for butt tapping, it was how it happened. Hill did it first and then Reggie did it back. So far no techs were called. It was after Hill did it again and then a few words were exchanged that the ref gave them techs.

You're right. Those butt-taps were the most malice-filled butt-taps I have ever seen.

Thank God the refs stopped that from escalating. If they hadn't, the butt-tapping could have gotten out of hand. You remeber that horrible butt-tapping incident back in '98? Wouldn't want another one of those.....

I mean seriously.

Lol...way to miss my point.

I don't think there was malice in the butt-tapping, but when Hill came back for the 3rd slap I could see how it could seem like Hill was pushing it a little bit. I think the refs were right to try and calm the situation but I definitely think they pulled the trigger way too early with the 2nd tech.

Message to Stern...emotional games are the most interesting to watch. Can you guys imagine this rule when Barkley played, or even MJ? We pay for entertainment and the histrionics of the players reactions to me are part of the game...not unwarranted ones, but emotion is pasrt of competition, its what drives excellence. Apathetic, emotionless players don't give you stars. Players who care and are passionate about the sport will be very into the game and will demonstrate to the refs.

SideSwipe wrote:Message to Stern...emotional games are the most interesting to watch. Can you guys imagine this rule when Barkley played, or even MJ? We pay for entertainment and the histrionics of the players reactions to me are part of the game...not unwarranted ones, but emotion is pasrt of competition, its what drives excellence. Apathetic, emotionless players don't give you stars. Players who care and are passionate about the sport will be very into the game and will demonstrate to the refs.

Stern doesn't really care about the game. He knows that fans will continue to come to the game, and buy merch, so why not get more money out of the players? 40 players at $25k is an extra million for the league. That way his refs have more money to go gambling.

As of now we have been watching the decline of a major sport, and Stern is clueless as long as he is making money. He is trying so hard to get China's and Europe's money, he seems to care less and less about the actual sport. Call challenges will slow the game down, but at least it would help get the calls correct. The refs have too many games where all three of them royal suck. Where at one end of the court to the other one would have no idea what a foul is or is not. There seems to be no accountability for the refs, but he wants more accountability for the coaches clothes and player's passion? What a joke!

I started this topic just before the preseason began and after our first preseason game was more convinced that this was going to be a big problem. But since then I have a watched several preseason games and it doesn't really seem to be too big of an issue. It appears some of the officials know they have ability to call that tech but most, from what I've seen so far, are allowing the players a little (lot in some cases) wiggle room to show some emotion. Other than Bill Kennedy in our first preseason game with butt slap gate, they haven't really been that bad. Now that's not to say they won't get worse, but so far it hasn't been too bad.......

realsunsfan wrote:I started this topic just before the preseason began and after our first preseason game was more convinced that this was going to be a big problem. But since then I have a watched several preseason games and it doesn't really seem to be too big of an issue. It appears some of the officials know they have ability to call that tech but most, from what I've seen so far, are allowing the players a little (lot in some cases) wiggle room to show some emotion. Other than Bill Kennedy in our first preseason game with butt slap gate, they haven't really been that bad. Now that's not to say they won't get worse, but so far it hasn't been too bad.......

The problem with that, is it gives too much power to those particular refs. If they don't like a player, then that "wiggle room" might not be given. But within the same game, another player could do the same thing and have a ton of "wiggle room". Which was my problem from the beginning. The refs (and Stern) have too much power, and have been known to abuse it, while having no accountability for their actions. They can play favorites, which is a contradiction of the guidelines of their job.

Other than Donaghy and Crawford, I really haven't heard of a ref being held accountable for their actions.

lilfishi22 wrote:I don't think there was malice in the butt-tapping, but when Hill came back for the 3rd slap I could see how it could seem like Hill was pushing it a little bit. I think the refs were right to try and calm the situation but I definitely think they pulled the trigger way too early with the 2nd tech.

How great would it have been if the butt tapping started a full-blown brawl in a pre-season game.

Can you imagine?

Announcer: "Oh dear! Grant's second butt tap has really escalated things here tonight..."

Crowd: "Rable, rable, rable...."

Announcer: "Oh no! Bargnani has just thrown the first b!tch slap! This is awful ladies and gentlemen..."