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Can Steve Nash thrive without Amare?

Posted: Tue Oct 12, 2010 1:26 pm
by Sun Scorched
Can Steve Nash thrive without Amare?
By Tom Carpenter

How much will Amare Stoudemire's departure affect Steve Nash in fantasy?

There are plenty of people out there who think that Amare Stoudemire is a good player who was made great by playing alongside future Hall of Famer Steve Nash his entire career with the Phoenix Suns. Some of those people even expect a downtick in production for Stoudemire after he signed with the New York Knicks during the offseason. Personally, I don't buy it. Back running the floor in coach Mike D'Antoni's offense, I think Stoudemire could challenge for the scoring title.

Nash made things easier for Stoudemire, but STAT is a stud in his own right. Of course, Nash is a stud, too, so it would be equally ludicrous to say that Stoudemire took Nash from good to great in fantasy. On the other hand, it would be shortsighted to not consider what effect losing a player of Stoudemire's caliber might have on Nash's performance this season. Amare may be the Association's best finisher around the rim, and with his steady midrange jumper, he's arguably the best at completing the pick-and-roll, too. So just how much will Stoudemire's absence dig into Nash's stats this season?

When Stoudemire missed nearly all of the 2005-06 campaign, Nash averaged 10.5 assists per game. That was a full dime lower than the seasons before and after, when Amare was healthy. Another small sample of games played by Nash without Stoudemire came during the last couple of months of the 2008-09 campaign. Sans STAT in March, his assists average dropped to 9.3, the only month from January on in which he failed to average double-digit dimes. It appears that Stoudemire's absence could take a bit off Nash's assist totals, unless he can find new teammates to finish his dimes this season.

In the aforementioned samples, Nash was running with the likes of Shawn Marion, Boris Diaw, Raja Bell, Leandro Barbosa and Shaquille O'Neal, none of whom is on the team now. Do Jason Richardson, Grant Hill, Hedo Turkoglu, Josh Childress, Hakim Warrick, Robin Lopez and Channing Frye have what it takes to finish Nash's passes? I think they do, mostly because Nash will continue to put the ball in the right spot at the right time for them. He certainly did for his former teammates. We'll see how Barbosa fares without Nash, but the other four ex-teammates have been shells of their former statistical selves since being separated from him.

The bottom line is that Nash is too great not to put up terrific stats. When his dimes dipped in 2005-06 without Stoudemire, his scoring jumped from 15.5 points per game the season prior to a career-high 18.9 points per game. And two seasons back when his assists dropped to 9.3 in March, his scoring popped from 14.4 points per game in February to 20.7 points per game.

We may see a slight diminishment in overall production, but remember that Nash is 36 years old. On the other hand, he remains in terrific shape and his game is based on fundamentals and rhythm, not athleticism, so it's unlikely his stats will fall off a cliff. My guess is that he maintains his overall value, losing a little in assists and gaining some in points. Probably 17.5 points, 10.2 assists and close to two triples per game.

Re: Can Steve Nash thrive without Amare?

Posted: Tue Oct 12, 2010 1:46 pm
by YFZblu
The article sort of mentions it---while Nash's assist dipped in 2005-2006, his shot attempts were the highest of his career---Which IMO, explains things. I'd also like to point out that Boris Diaw was receiving a significant amount of ball-handling time as well, recording over 6 assists per game during that season. I've done some research, and I'm pretty sure Boris's assist average is the highest in NBA history for a player who's teammate recorded 10+ assists per game.

In any event, this type of debate is a little worn out. Steve has proven to be MVP-calibur without Amar'e, and Amar'e has proven that he'll be an all-star calibur player without Steve Nash.

Re: Can Steve Nash thrive without Amare?

Posted: Tue Oct 12, 2010 3:40 pm
by RunDogGun
The article doesn't really say much. Nothing that any normal Suns fan knows. Nothing shocking in the way of evidence for or against the title. It also fails to mention how much more Amare is turnover prone since his injuries, and that his handle has dropped a bit since this last eye injury (not catching passes at the ease he use to.)

Scoring title? Now that is a laugh. Amare will have some great scoring games, but I doubt he will continue that throughout the year, enough to win that title. Since the injury, he will have games where he just won't want to try. If the lose often, and the media gets on him, it might be terrible for him. And even if he is close to a scoring title, his team will still have too many losses, because it will be a one man show. Now if he was smart, he would forget trying to score at every turn, and become the leader on his team. He needs to step it up in every category except scoring. He definitely needs to learn how to pass out of the double team, and see the floor better. A back to the basket game would be nice. Plus we all know at some point (maybe the first week) D'Antoni is going to put Amare at center, and keep him there. I could see a line up of Amare, Randolph, Gali, Chandler, Felton all playing 35+ minutes.

Overall, I think Amare will have a tougher time adjusting to the loss of Nash, than Nash will have with the loss of Amare. Maybe that is what the article should have talk about.

Re: Can Steve Nash thrive without Amare?

Posted: Tue Oct 12, 2010 4:17 pm
by lilfishi22
I love STAT but the idea of him challenging the scoring title is downright laughable and i stopped reading the article in detail after that. Amare is a great scorer, but he's not a volume guy and his game is much better suited with a superstar-caliber passing PG next to him. That NY team has so many chuckers and not good enough distributors for Amare to put up those high % points. I expect Amare's efficiency and scoring to dip this upcoming season. He'll still be putting up nice stats (20/8) but those points will mean less and won't win as many games.

It is true that the players Nash has played with certainly made him look great but so does every other player. Rondo wasn't even that good in Boston's championship year but he was good enough but made to look much better with 3 HOF'ers around him. That's the same with Nash. Dirk made Nash looked great in Dallas and STAT did the same for Nash in Phoenix. Nash can survive almost anywhere in this league and he's proven it. It sure makes life a hell of a lot easier with a finisher like Amare and while Nash certainly thrived with Amare, I don't think he NEEDS Amare.

Re: Can Steve Nash thrive without Amare?

Posted: Tue Oct 12, 2010 6:08 pm
by rsavaj
Yes.

Re: Can Steve Nash thrive without Amare?

Posted: Wed Oct 13, 2010 2:13 am
by NashtyNas
Why is this even a question? Wow, for a two time MVP, Nashty seems to get too much hate...

Re: Can Steve Nash thrive without Amare?

Posted: Wed Oct 13, 2010 5:58 am
by th3matrix1
sd1306 wrote:Why is this even a question? Wow, for a two time MVP, Nashty seems to get too much hate...


+1
He did it when amare was out with the microfracture, its not any different now. People don't seem to want to give him credit! He puts up phenomenal numbers year in and year out. ( such as the 50 40 90 percentages stat)

Re: Can Steve Nash thrive without Amare?

Posted: Fri Oct 15, 2010 8:23 am
by NYK 455
Steve Nash is the most underrated player in the NBA.