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Kobe still tough, with assists from the greats
Posted: Tue Nov 23, 2010 6:02 pm
by alldayeveryday
I thought this was a good read and found this part of the article interesting.
“How to truly make players better, what that really means,” he said. “It’s not just passing to your guys and getting them shots. It’s not getting this or that many players into double figures. That’s bull[expletive]. That’s not how you win championships. You’ve got to change the culture of your team – that’s how you truly make guys better. In a way, you have to help them to get the same DNA that you have, the same focus you have, maybe even close to the same drive. That’s how you make guys better.
“I’ve never understood this stuff, where a star player sits out and a team goes into the tank. Well, they need him because he makes them better. Well, if he’s making them better, they should be able to survive without him. That’s how you lead your guys. You’ve got to be able to make guys suffice on their own, without you. If you’re there all the time and they take you away, they shouldn’t need a respirator.
“Once I understood all that, I looked at things completely different. I took my hands off. I didn’t try to control them. I let them make decisions, make their own [expletive]-ups and I was there to try and help them through it.”
http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news;_ylt=AlxklcW1IBbrvJxrMTBRPom8vLYF?slug=aw-kobebryantchat112310
Re: Kobe still tough, with assists from the greats
Posted: Tue Nov 23, 2010 6:12 pm
by Mjee
F##k Kobe......He's a rapist!
Re: Kobe still tough, with assists from the greats
Posted: Tue Nov 23, 2010 6:17 pm
by Wannabe MEP
I hate Kobe. He's arrogant and overrated.
But that was a good read.
Re: Kobe still tough, with assists from the greats
Posted: Tue Nov 23, 2010 6:42 pm
by lilfishi22
Don't like Kobe much as a person but as a player, he deserves respect. Probably the hardest workers we've seen in the NBA since MJ and for sure, the most driven. That was a pretty good piece though. Certainly sounds like the opposite of what Nash does for the Suns.
Re: Kobe still tough, with assists from the greats
Posted: Tue Nov 23, 2010 6:52 pm
by alldayeveryday
It seems he has come a long way from how he was in the past to how he is in the present. I have nothing but respect for him as a player on and off the court. I just wish we had some type of 'swagger' I guess you can say for our team.
Re: Kobe still tough, with assists from the greats
Posted: Tue Nov 23, 2010 6:54 pm
by Wannabe MEP
lilfishi22 wrote:Don't like Kobe much as a person but as a player, he deserves respect. Probably the hardest workers we've seen in the NBA since MJ and for sure, the most driven. That was a pretty good piece though.
Totally agree.
lilfishi22 wrote:Certainly sounds like the opposite of what Nash does for the Suns.
Disagree. I think the article went way too far in supporting Kobe's leadership. It was an interesting idea, for sure, but I don't buy it, at least as much as the article claims. Sounds like a BS apologetic for the fact that Kobe's adjusted +/- is shockingly average.
I'm thinking that has more to do with Gasol, Odom, and Phil Jackson than that Kobe makes his team so good that they don't need him. They're just good anyway.
Re: Kobe still tough, with assists from the greats
Posted: Tue Nov 23, 2010 6:58 pm
by Wannabe MEP
Kobe wins championships if and only if he has:
1) the best coach
2) the best frontcourt
in the NBA on his team.
Re: Kobe still tough, with assists from the greats
Posted: Tue Nov 23, 2010 9:25 pm
by BurningHeart
This is the Suns board. Why do I give a **** about Kobe to see some article about him? Yeah, he was a real leader when he quit on his team in Game 7 of the 2006 Western Conference Quarterfinals. Funny how he became a better leader once he actually got good players around him.
Re: Kobe still tough, with assists from the greats
Posted: Tue Nov 23, 2010 11:33 pm
by RaisingArizona
BurningHeart wrote:This is the Suns board. Why do I give a **** about Kobe to see some article about him? Yeah, he was a real leader when he quit on his team in Game 7 of the 2006 Western Conference Quarterfinals. Funny how he became a better leader once he actually got good players around him.
This. I don't want to hear about this ^&#!*
Re: Kobe still tough, with assists from the greats
Posted: Wed Nov 24, 2010 12:34 am
by DirtyDez
Don't like Kobe because he's a Laker but i have tons of repsect for him on-the-court. He has the Jordan-esqe attitude of hating the opposition plus he's an incredible player. I wish the NBA was like the MJ/Barkley days where everyone hated eachother. The game is too soft today, seems like everyone are buddies.
Los Soles wrote:Kobe wins championships if and only if he has:
1) the best coach
2) the best frontcourt
in the NBA on his team.
How many titles has Phil Jackson won without Kobe or MJ? How many titles has Shaq won without an elite shooting guard? I'm not buying that argument. Jordan needed Pip, Duncan needed Manu/Parker/D-Rob, Wade needed Shaq, Magic needed Kareem, Bird needed McHale, Russell needed Hondo, Hakeem needed Drexler. Who besides that 04' Pistons didn't have 2-3 elite players?
Re: Kobe still tough, with assists from the greats
Posted: Wed Nov 24, 2010 5:18 am
by BurningHeart
Kobe's fake. EVERYTHING about him is fake. It's all a show. He's never had an identity. He's spent his whole life emulating Michael Jordan. Moved around always, never accepted. He's a psychologist's dream.
I don't buy a **** word about him.
Re: Kobe still tough, with assists from the greats
Posted: Wed Nov 24, 2010 11:31 am
by raptorforlife88
lilfishi22 wrote:Certainly sounds like the opposite of what Nash does for the Suns.
I think while Kobe's statement can be seen as partially true, it's more about changing the culture of a team than the team still being good while he's not playing. Let's not forget Pau Gasol was capable of leading the Grizzlies to fifty wins in the West while on his own. And that was when he was a lesser player. And the Lakers have Odom and a group of solid role players with them.
I mean Kobe's team five years ago with Smush? Would any amount of Kobe leadership make that team good while he's not playing? No of course not they sucked. They played Smush Parker for god's sake.
Same with Nash this year, there is nothing Nash or anyone else on the planet could do to make the team good without him. It's just not a very good team. What can be changed is the attitude in the team. And from what I've seen, generally with the Nash around there's always a very good attitude surrounding the team that comes from Nash's leadership.
Apparently Kobe's changed in character from his years in the past where he had a negative impact in attitude, so good for him there.
Re: Kobe still tough, with assists from the greats
Posted: Wed Nov 24, 2010 12:16 pm
by Wannabe MEP
DirtyDez wrote:How many titles has Phil Jackson won without Kobe or MJ? How many titles has Shaq won without an elite shooting guard? I'm not buying that argument. Jordan needed Pip, Duncan needed Manu/Parker/D-Rob, Wade needed Shaq, Magic needed Kareem, Bird needed McHale, Russell needed Hondo, Hakeem needed Drexler. Who besides that 04' Pistons didn't have 2-3 elite players?
No doubt, I agree. And Kobe is a very good basketball player, but I still think he's overrated. Exchange Kobe for one of several other elite guards in this league: I believe the Lakers get better. I believe that Phil Jackson, Pau Gasol, and Lamar Odom are more important to the success of the Lakers than Kobe. Just my opinion.
Re: Kobe still tough, with assists from the greats
Posted: Wed Nov 24, 2010 12:23 pm
by YFZblu
You seriously posted this on the Suns board?
Slurp slurp slurp
Re: Kobe still tough, with assists from the greats
Posted: Wed Nov 24, 2010 12:33 pm
by DRK
lilfishi22 wrote:Don't like Kobe much as a person but as a player, he deserves respect. Probably the hardest workers we've seen in the NBA since MJ and for sure, the most driven. That was a pretty good piece though.
+1
Re: Kobe still tough, with assists from the greats
Posted: Wed Nov 24, 2010 5:52 pm
by coban
Los Soles wrote:DirtyDez wrote:How many titles has Phil Jackson won without Kobe or MJ? How many titles has Shaq won without an elite shooting guard? I'm not buying that argument. Jordan needed Pip, Duncan needed Manu/Parker/D-Rob, Wade needed Shaq, Magic needed Kareem, Bird needed McHale, Russell needed Hondo, Hakeem needed Drexler. Who besides that 04' Pistons didn't have 2-3 elite players?
No doubt, I agree. And Kobe is a very good basketball player, but I still think he's overrated. Exchange Kobe for one of several other elite guards in this league: I believe the Lakers get better. I believe that Phil Jackson, Pau Gasol, and Lamar Odom are more important to the success of the Lakers than Kobe. Just my opinion.
Only Durant can replace Kobe. Noone in the league is not good to replace bryant. Lakers with bryant have cca 80% chance to win a title , while if LeBron replace Bryant in Lakers they only have cca 50% to win a title.
Re: Kobe still tough, with assists from the greats
Posted: Wed Nov 24, 2010 7:59 pm
by BurningHeart
It's not about "who can replace him". Kobe, as a basketball player, is irreplaceable.
HOWEVER, for what the Lakers have been able to accomplish, it is CLEAR that Phil Jackson's calming leadership influence, the arrival of Pau Gasol, and the gained consistency of Lamar Odom have greatly contributed to the teams' success.
Hell, Artest was basically the MVP of the playoffs, what with the tip in in Game 5 of the WCF, the out-of-nowhere offensive show in Game 6, and the ridiculous D on Paul Pierce in the Finals...
You're acting as if a team with Gasol, Odom, a healthy (hahaha, it'll never happen anyway so why am I saying it) Bynum, and Artest isn't good enough without Kobe and with someone of slightly lesser talent and ability?
Jeez. Ridiculousness at its finest.
Re: Kobe still tough, with assists from the greats
Posted: Wed Nov 24, 2010 9:40 pm
by alldayeveryday
I should of just posted this on the around the NBA thread but oh well. It is a basketball forum at the end of the day although not Suns related. The reason I posted it was because it seems like it was some what of a shot at Nash. I could be reading too much into it but I just got that vibe from the article. Mods your more then welcome to delete/move this thread if you want. We have too many ignorant members on this board that just can't have a conversation about the article. Everything always seems as an argument with everyone on this board. I know its a forum board for a reason but at least keep it civilized when you guys criticize each other.
Re: Kobe still tough, with assists from the greats
Posted: Thu Nov 25, 2010 7:50 am
by Illuminati_
BurningHeart wrote:This is the Suns board. Why do I give a **** about Kobe to see some article about him? Yeah, he was a real leader when he quit on his team in Game 7 of the 2006 Western Conference Quarterfinals. Funny how he became a better leader once he actually got good players around him.
lolll...did you read what kobe said. If you've followed his career..or just the nba i guess you should know when he really became a leader.
Re: Kobe still tough, with assists from the greats
Posted: Thu Nov 25, 2010 8:41 am
by BurningHeart
Yeah, he shut the **** up after Gasol came to town.