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According to Adjusted Plus-Minus, that is. http://basketballvalue.com/topplayers.p ... =2010-2011

He is currently sitting atop the leader board for this season, but that doesn't say much because with such a tiny data set there is an enormous expected error.

However, he has just moved into the top spot for adj +/- from the last two years' worth of data (and by my estimation, the results would seemingly hold if someone combined the data for the last 3, 4, or 5 years, especially if this year and/or last year were weighted higher). Even with the obvious limitations of how early we are in the season, it seems likely that Nash will end up at the top at the end of this year.

His only real competitors at the top are LeBron James, Dwyane Wade, Kevin Durant, and Dwight Howard. Howard and Durant have been amazing at times, but not as consistently good as the other three. This year, James and Wade are stealing each other's thunder. Unless something changes drastically, neither of them will have very good numbers this year.

I don't know if we appreciate Nash enough. He's done the same thing for so long that we've come to expect it--it's not magical to us anymore--and we've started to lose hope that he can bring home a title (even though he's always played with a horrendous defensive frontcourt).

He truly is a freak. A magical, magical freak. IMO, he's the best offensive player in the NBA and has been since at least 2005---That shouldn't really be debatable. Being the best player in the NBA is definitely a possibility...There are better scorers, obviously...But Nash's effect on an offense goes significantly beyond that. He simplifies the game for everyone. Hell, he could probably make me look like a respectable outside shooter in the NBA Our record won't be good enough for him to draw attention, but IMO he should be among the MVP candidates.

PS: For those of you too lazy to look it up or click the link Los Soles posted:

Nash can effect a teams offense like no other player in the league. Too bad at the same time our team is the worst rebounding and one of the worst defensive teams in the league...

It's a shame that the team doesn't go all-in and just pay the tax, get the one or two players we need and go after a championship. I've always found it funny that Nash has never been the high salary on the team, usually 3rd (now second I believe), while being the single most important player for us.

Risensun wrote:Nash can effect a teams offense like no other player in the league. Too bad at the same time our team is the worst rebounding and one of the worst defensive teams in the league...

Exactly! I dont think he can be labeled the best player in the NBA when his horrible defense completely nullify's his awesome offense.

Kerrsed wrote:

Risensun wrote:Nash can effect a teams offense like no other player in the league. Too bad at the same time our team is the worst rebounding and one of the worst defensive teams in the league...

Exactly! I dont think he can be labeled the best player in the NBA when his horrible defense completely nullify's his awesome offense.

Kerrsed wrote:

Risensun wrote:Nash can effect a teams offense like no other player in the league. Too bad at the same time our team is the worst rebounding and one of the worst defensive teams in the league...

Exactly! I dont think he can be labeled the best player in the NBA when his horrible defense completely nullify's his awesome offense.

But, and I think Los Soles will be proud of me, this is adjusted +/- we're looking at which accounts for Nash's impact on the game. His defense is horrible but he still causes his team to perform better than one of those other guys who's better at defense.

Of course you couldn't have 5 players as bad as Nash at D and win, but in the past I don't think Nash's defense has been an issue when we have the right supporting cast. I'm sure Miami would rather Nash than one of LBJ or Wade right now which should prove that given the right surroundings, it could be argued that Nash would push a team to contention better than any other player addition.

PG is the most important position on the team. As far as offense goes. LBJ/Wade/all those other dudes... they're really good players, but they aren't PGs. Put them in Nash's body and they aren't anywhere near as good as Nash in Nash's body. Put Nash in LBJ's body, and holy $@&%.

Nash's offensive prowess has always been underrated, and his "poor" defense has always been overblown.

In my opinion.

I don't know if he is the best player in the NBA currently, but he is still one of the top 3 PG's (despite what others on the general board seem to think) and I think that right now he looks better than Williams or Paul.

Rondo is a joke. Sorry. Just had to. Ask me why if you don't agree.

If you do agree, you're cool.

If you don't mind could you elaborate on the Rondo thing? I think of him as rather beastly...

Kerrsed wrote:

Risensun wrote:Nash can effect a teams offense like no other player in the league. Too bad at the same time our team is the worst rebounding and one of the worst defensive teams in the league...

Exactly! I dont think he can be labeled the best player in the NBA when his horrible defense completely nullify's his awesome offense.

This is a tired and out-dated argument...One that has been proven incorrect many times. The Suns allow more points when Nash is not on the court.

Miklo wrote:

Kerrsed wrote:

Risensun wrote:Nash can effect a teams offense like no other player in the league. Too bad at the same time our team is the worst rebounding and one of the worst defensive teams in the league...

Exactly! I dont think he can be labeled the best player in the NBA when his horrible defense completely nullify's his awesome offense.

But, and I think Los Soles will be proud of me, this is adjusted +/- we're looking at which accounts for Nash's impact on the game. His defense is horrible but he still causes his team to perform better than one of those other guys who's better at defense.

Of course you couldn't have 5 players as bad as Nash at D and win, but in the past I don't think Nash's defense has been an issue when we have the right supporting cast. I'm sure Miami would rather Nash than one of LBJ or Wade right now which should prove that given the right surroundings, it could be argued that Nash would push a team to contention better than any other player addition.

Very good Miklo. You catch on quick.

YFZblu wrote: This is a tired and out-dated argument...One that has been proven incorrect many times. The Suns allow more points when Nash is not on the court.

That usually because when Nash is not on the court, neither is most of our starters.

Nash is, and has always been an average defensive player. I hate when fools exclaim "He plays no defense!"

Kerrsed wrote:

YFZblu wrote: This is a tired and out-dated argument...One that has been proven incorrect many times. The Suns allow more points when Nash is not on the court.

That usually because when Nash is not on the court, neither is most of our starters.

I thought the Suns bench was the "defensive" unit...

Best is certainly subjective but the thing that is absolutely amazing is that this conversation can even be had for a player that will turn 37 in 2 months. John Stockton played until he was 41 but he was clearly in decline by 35. Still very good just not what he was. (Like Nash he was also fanatical about taking care of himself.) Don't get me wrong, I think he's lost a step since his MVP years. BUt if father time would give him that step back, I think he'd take this team on his back all the way to the WCF. Maybe he still can.

Miklo wrote:If you don't mind could you elaborate on the Rondo thing? I think of him as rather beastly...

Well, the first question I always pose is this:

Would the Celtics be a better team with Nash as their starting PG?

Here are their PER 36's this season:

Nash Rondo
.490 - FG% - .514
1.1 - 3PG - 0.2
.878 - FT% - .444
3.6 - RPG - 4.1
10.1 - APG - 12.6
0.8 - SPG - 2.0
3.5 - TOV - 3.6
19.9 - PPG - 10.4

We could also take a look at advanced stats, but it will simply & quite clearly show Nash's offensive superiority and Rondo's defensive dominance. So I'll save you the pain.

The one thing I will note is this, Nash's True Shooting % is 59.3% while Rondo's is 52.2%.

Nash takes 14.5 shots per game with 5.2 free throws which nets him 19.9 points per game. Additionally, he is credited with an assist on 10.1 plays, which assuming they are only converated as 2pt field goals, nets him an additional 20.2 points per game. This gives Nash a grand total of 40.1 total created points per game.

Rondo takes 9.6 shots per game with 2.2 free throws which nets him 10.4 points per game. Additionally, he is credited with an assist on 12.6 plays, which assuming they are only converated as 2pt field goals, nets him an additional 25.2 points per game. This gives Rondo a grand total of 35.6 total created points per game.

I should point out that converting those assists as only 2pt fg's favors Rondo, since Nash assists on more 3pt fg's. Boston is averaging 5.2/12.83 from downtown and Phoenix is averaging 8.94/23.7.

Finally, Nash (believe it or not) technically turns the ball over less than Rondo does.

So, in conclusion:
Nash is the better scorer, shooter, passer, play-maker, floor general, and team leader.
Rondo is the better defender, slasher, rebounder, distributor by volume, and athlete.

I would rather have the top line as far as my offensive focal point, were anyone to care what I thought.

Sun Scorched wrote:

Miklo wrote:If you don't mind could you elaborate on the Rondo thing? I think of him as rather beastly...

Well, the first question I always pose is this:

Would the Celtics be a better team with Nash as their starting PG?

Here are their PER 36's this season:

Nash Rondo
.490 - FG% - .514
1.1 - 3PG - 0.2
.878 - FT% - .444
3.6 - RPG - 4.1
10.1 - APG - 12.6
0.8 - SPG - 2.0
3.5 - TOV - 3.6
19.9 - PPG - 10.4

We could also take a look at advanced stats, but it will simply & quite clearly show Nash's offensive superiority and Rondo's defensive dominance. So I'll save you the pain.

The one thing I will note is this, Nash's True Shooting % is 59.3% while Rondo's is 52.2%.

Nash takes 14.5 shots per game with 5.2 free throws which nets him 19.9 points per game. Additionally, he is credited with an assist on 10.1 plays, which assuming they are only converated as 2pt field goals, nets him an additional 20.2 points per game. This gives Nash a grand total of 40.1 total created points per game.

Rondo takes 9.6 shots per game with 2.2 free throws which nets him 10.4 points per game. Additionally, he is credited with an assist on 12.6 plays, which assuming they are only converated as 2pt field goals, nets him an additional 25.2 points per game. This gives Rondo a grand total of 35.6 total created points per game.

I should point out that converting those assists as only 2pt fg's favors Rondo, since Nash assists on more 3pt fg's. Boston is averaging 5.2/12.83 from downtown and Phoenix is averaging 8.94/23.7.

Finally, Nash (believe it or not) technically turns the ball over less than Rondo does.

So, in conclusion:
Nash is the better scorer, shooter, passer, play-maker, floor general, and team leader.
Rondo is the better defender, slasher, rebounder, distributor by volume, and athlete.

I would rather have the top line as far as my offensive focal point, were anyone to care what I thought.

I don't see how good Nash is, makes Rondo a "joke." All the stats show Nash is the better player and scorer but it doesn't mean Rondo is a joke. I'd put Rondo very slightly over Rose/Westbrook but a level below CP3/DWill/Nash. Rondo is still a heck of a PG and does a heck of a lot without a decent jumper. Take away Rondo's poor individual offensive game and Rondo is basically doing what Nash does.

Rondo is no Nash, but he's far far from a joke.

JohnVancouver wrote:It's a shame that the team doesn't go all-in and just pay the tax, get the one or two players we need and go after a championship. I've always found it funny that Nash has never been the high salary on the team, usually 3rd (now second I believe), while being the single most important player for us.

Lewis, Redd, Brand, etc etc....and Nash making 11 million...the NBA.

Rondo is mostly a joke because he intentionally wears his NBA provided headband upside down as most likely a way to "stick it to the man" who happens to be paying him millions of dollars a year to play a children's game.