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Opinions welcome. I just wanted to point out something that seems to escape most of us.

Versatility is the key here. Think about it...We always assume everyone will be healthy and play at least a decent game. What if that isn't the case?

- Imagine J-Rich is out, Hedo can play shooting guard easily.
- Imagine Hill is out, Hedo IS a small forward
- Imagine Warrick is out, Hedo, although struggling a bit, has the length to play the power forward. I honestly think he is getting better at that every game with his hustle and good positioning. There are also numerous reports that he is working on his core strength, that ought to help.
- Imagine Fry/Lopez is out, he already plays the center position when he is running with the bench.
- Imagine Nash is out, he had shown he could run the point countless times. However, that last stretch when Nash had injured his ankle, Gentry didn't try this much to my surprise.

Only thing he is missing is the post-up game. If he had that, well, than he would be truly worthy of his contract. However considering what Gooden, Gay, Darko, Amir Johnson, etc is paid; can you really say that he overpaid grossly like we make it out to be?

The problem is that Jchill is probably just as versatile. Hence it makes it even more difficult to decide who gets traded for a big.

Reverse_Angle wrote:Opinions welcome. I just wanted to point out something that seems to escape most of us.

Versatility is the key here. Think about it...We always assume everyone will be healthy and play at least a decent game. What if that isn't the case?

- Imagine J-Rich is out, Hedo can play shooting guard easily.
- Imagine Hill is out, Hedo IS a small forward
- Imagine Warrick is out, Hedo, although struggling a bit, has the length to play the power forward. I honestly think he is getting better at that every game with his hustle and good positioning. There are also numerous reports that he is working on his core strength, that ought to help.
- Imagine Fry/Lopez is out, he already plays the center position when he is running with the bench.
- Imagine Nash is out, he had shown he could run the point countless times. However, that last stretch when Nash had injured his ankle, Gentry didn't try this much to my surprise.

Only thing he is missing is the post-up game. If he had that, well, than he would be truly worthy of his contract. However considering what Gooden, Gay, Darko, Amir Johnson, etc is paid; can you really say that he overpaid grossly like we make it out to be?

Thanks for the post Reverse-Angle! It is refreshing to see some people with wisdom and reasoning. Although I am not going to suggest that Hedo is the best thing in the history of humanity after bread and butter, I find many posters unreasonable with their "Hedo HATE." Couple of disclaimers, I am not Turkish, and I am not paid by Hedo or his relatives As I said, it gets me when trolls from Canada come here to just trash a former player.

As far as your question is concerned, I do not think that Hedo is grossly overpaid. He had a fantastic final year in Orlando and he was able to convert it to cash. As a matter of fact, his final two years in Orlando were pretty solid. If you want to see a signature grossly overpaid player have alook at Rashard Lewis' mind bugglingly ridicilous contract and study his performance during his tenure with that team! Lewis's numbers: 2010-2011: $20,514,000.00; 2011-2012: $22,152,000; 2012-2012: $23,790,000!!! Is Lewis a way too superior player? NO! So, this is grossly overpaid folks.

B-Ball-IQ wrote:Thanks for the post Reverse-Angle! It is refreshing to see some people with wisdom and reasoning. Although I am not going to suggest that Hedo is the best thing in the history of humanity after bread and butter, I find many posters unreasonable with their "Hedo HATE." Couple of disclaimers, I am not Turkish, and I am not paid by Hedo or his relatives As I said, it gets me when trolls from Canada come here to just trash a former player.

As far as your question is concerned, I do not think that Hedo is grossly overpaid. He had a fantastic final year in Orlando and he was able to convert it to cash. As a matter of fact, his final two years in Orlando were pretty solid. If you want to see a signature grossly overpaid player have alook at Rashard Lewis' mind bugglingly ridicilous contract and study his performance during his tenure with that team! Lewis's numbers: 2010-2011: $20,514,000.00; 2011-2012: $22,152,000; 2012-2012: $23,790,000!!! Is Lewis a way too superior player? NO! So, this is grossly overpaid folks.

He's not grossly overpaid, but he is overpaid. Considering Orlando, where he had all his success, did not match Toronto's offer just goes to show he's overpaid.

swe_suns wrote:The problem is that Jchill is probably just as versatile. Hence it makes it even more difficult to decide who gets traded for a big.

And you are suggesting this based on ...? Is this another "because I think so"?

Being Turkish or not should be little of consequence here. There are hordes of American players, some of them I like, some I don't.

I am sure there are some Turkish people who doesn't like Hedo's game, schnakenpopanz being one of them.

lilfishi22 wrote:

B-Ball-IQ wrote:Thanks for the post Reverse-Angle! It is refreshing to see some people with wisdom and reasoning. Although I am not going to suggest that Hedo is the best thing in the history of humanity after bread and butter, I find many posters unreasonable with their "Hedo HATE." Couple of disclaimers, I am not Turkish, and I am not paid by Hedo or his relatives As I said, it gets me when trolls from Canada come here to just trash a former player.

As far as your question is concerned, I do not think that Hedo is grossly overpaid. He had a fantastic final year in Orlando and he was able to convert it to cash. As a matter of fact, his final two years in Orlando were pretty solid. If you want to see a signature grossly overpaid player have alook at Rashard Lewis' mind bugglingly ridicilous contract and study his performance during his tenure with that team! Lewis's numbers: 2010-2011: $20,514,000.00; 2011-2012: $22,152,000; 2012-2012: $23,790,000!!! Is Lewis a way too superior player? NO! So, this is grossly overpaid folks.

He's not grossly overpaid, but he is overpaid. Considering Orlando, where he had all his success, did not match Toronto's offer just goes to show he's overpaid.

Orlando did not match Toronto's offer not because of the amount of $$$, but because of the "length" of the contract Hedo insistently required. Orlando wanted to give him 4 years, but Hedo wanted 5 years and guarantee. That was his bottomline.

Reverse_Angle wrote:Being Turkish or not should be little of consequence here. There are hordes of American players, some of them I like, some I don't.

I am sure there are some Turkish people who doesn't like Hedo's game, schnakenpopanz being one of them.

Absolutely agreed. I meant to emphasize that my bias does not stem from my nationality, but my fondness of the player. Purely basketballwise. I know that there are folks taking every opportunity to intoxicate every discussion with their political agenda.

B-Ball-IQ wrote:

Reverse_Angle wrote:Being Turkish or not should be little of consequence here. There are hordes of American players, some of them I like, some I don't.

I am sure there are some Turkish people who doesn't like Hedo's game, schnakenpopanz being one of them.

Absolutely agreed. I meant to emphasize that my bias does not stem from my nationality, but my fondness of the player. Purely basketballwise. I know that there are folks taking every opportunity to intoxicate every discussion with their political agenda.

By the way, I must post about other players, too, as I LOVE Nash, Hill, J-Rich, Warrick, Frye, Lopez, Goran, Dudley, too. And I do not think of throwing any player under the bus for missing a crucial last second free shot, or missing an easy lay up, or having one/two/three/four/five off nights, or sucking at times, as I know that every player has had, does have, and will have a bad or a good strecth. And I also love the team when they do not win every game. I love the game folks. That's my bottomline.

B-Ball-IQ wrote:

lilfishi22 wrote:

B-Ball-IQ wrote:Thanks for the post Reverse-Angle! It is refreshing to see some people with wisdom and reasoning. Although I am not going to suggest that Hedo is the best thing in the history of humanity after bread and butter, I find many posters unreasonable with their "Hedo HATE." Couple of disclaimers, I am not Turkish, and I am not paid by Hedo or his relatives As I said, it gets me when trolls from Canada come here to just trash a former player.

As far as your question is concerned, I do not think that Hedo is grossly overpaid. He had a fantastic final year in Orlando and he was able to convert it to cash. As a matter of fact, his final two years in Orlando were pretty solid. If you want to see a signature grossly overpaid player have alook at Rashard Lewis' mind bugglingly ridicilous contract and study his performance during his tenure with that team! Lewis's numbers: 2010-2011: $20,514,000.00; 2011-2012: $22,152,000; 2012-2012: $23,790,000!!! Is Lewis a way too superior player? NO! So, this is grossly overpaid folks.

He's not grossly overpaid, but he is overpaid. Considering Orlando, where he had all his success, did not match Toronto's offer just goes to show he's overpaid.

Orlando did not match Toronto's offer not because of the amount of $$$, but because of the "length" of the contract Hedo insistently required. Orlando wanted to give him 4 years, but Hedo wanted 5 years and guarantee. That was his bottomline.

A guaranteed 5th year makes sure he's overpaid till he's 34-35. And at close to $12m as well. GOod on Orlando for passing on Hedo. I had a laugh when Toronto signed him to a deal that pays him guaranteed money for 5 years. Jokes on me, I guess.

B-Ball-IQ wrote:

swe_suns wrote:The problem is that Jchill is probably just as versatile. Hence it makes it even more difficult to decide who gets traded for a big.

And you are suggesting this based on ...? Is this another "because I think so"?

JChill is versatile, maybe not as versatile offensively as Hedo but certainly defensively. JChill can guard the 2, 3 and some 4's while being able to play the 3 and 4 at times. Hedo can really only guard the 3 properly.

Well, there's two things we're really talking about

1, Hedo is undeniably a very talented player who upped his value with a couple years solid play to end his last contract. Even so, he's not terribly overpaid. 2, his skill-set is superfluous to some extent in PHX because he duplicates a lot of what we already have in Nash, a situation made worse when we cornered the market on SFs.
The hope was that he would be a Diaw-type point forward but that isn't working out.

I will admit to going from a Hedo-hater to being Hedo-neutral after the last couple of games. I am starting to see where he could either gel very effectively with the bench team, but I advocate having him start at the 3 and Hill go to the bench. If given time he could become a very signifacnt contributor at the 3 with the starting line-up. If that were to happen I would be Hedo-happy .

I do hate to say the following but I think Hill should go to the bench. He is playing good this year at 14.2 ppg, 4.6 rpg with solid defense, but those numbers don't get a 38 yo veteran a starting gig. Make way for younger vets like Hedo or J-Chill.

The biggest problem is that we have 13 guys who all deserve minutes, mostly in the same place

JohnVancouver wrote:The biggest problem is that we have 13 guys who all deserve minutes, mostly in the same place

It seems they either let J-Rich expire or Hill retire or both!

I am beginning to think they actually planed for the next season.

That is a terrible plan then. JRich is balling and has always been baller since he came to Phoenix. Why replace him with Dudley (I assume that's their plan) when Dudley is a natural 3? It might have been a safe assumption that Hill would retire but signing JChill and trading for Hedo when we already have Dudley?

I blame Babby.

lilfishi22 wrote:That is a terrible plan then. JRich is balling and has always been baller since he came to Phoenix. Why replace him with Dudley (I assume that's their plan) when Dudley is a natural 3? It might have been a safe assumption that Hill would retire but signing JChill and trading for Hedo when we already have Dudley?

I blame Babby.

Or trade him for a big like Gasol, the one who isn't a screamer.
or Noah?

His versatility is CRITICAL. And he's already hit a few massive shots for us. Absolutely needed.

JohnVancouver wrote:The biggest problem is that we have 13 guys who all deserve minutes, mostly in the same place

so much truth in so few words.

Still screw Hedo. Dude doesn't hustle not play hard. Would make sense with the second unit but I'd rather see Earl Clark play.