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I've thought a lot about this, and though I am excited to see what Vince can do in a Suns uniform I don't think his impact has the ability to make us anything other than the Sunderella Suns Reboot.

Brand is largely considered immovable. He definately does not play to his contract. But roll with me.

Vince Carter for Elton Brand + PHI's unprotected 2011 1st.



This accomplishes a few things.

1. It keeps our stable of wings to 4 and allows us to give each the playing time they need in order to be productive.

2. It gives us a capable PF who is averaging 15.2 points, 9.5 boards, 1.4 steals and 1.3 blocks per game (In Philly's system, pace = 18th in the league, Suns = 6th). It also gives the Suns one of the largest productive frontcourts in the West.

3. It gives the Suns a 3rd 1st round pick. Here's to all you Perry Jones fools out there. That's some strong draft day trade bait.

4. Here's the kicker. Even if Pietrus executes his option and even if we resign Grant, we are still at or below the luxury tax threshold with Brand's contract; a contract at which point will only have two more years on it.

5. Brand will get to work with the best trainers in the league.

6. Effectively (less Carter's buyout of $4m), Brand's "net" salary would "only" be $13m next season.

7. Brand is, when healthy*, one of the most mobile and best passing big men in the league. He's got handles too, and a decent post game.

PG - Nash / Dragic
SG - Pietrus / Childress
SF - Hill / Dudley
PF - Brand / Frye
C - Gortat / Lopez

Interesting, I'd honestly wanna see some more of Pietrus and VC before truly making a judgment.

But for the sake of argument -

I wouldn't terribly mind the idea of taking on Elton Brand, when healthy he could be a legit insider for us. But it's not next year's salary I'm worried about, it's the following year when he has an ETO for $18.1 million. There's a fair chance that Nash will have slowed down or not be with us two seasons from now, and to be on the hook for Brand's 18 mil, as well as Hakim's 4.2, Frye's 6, Chill's 6.5, Marcin's 7.2 and by then at 4 first round pick salaries is tough when you consider we'd need to re-sign Dragic, Duds and Pietrus.

Of course subsequent deals could be made but I just don't think adding Brand will make us a contender this year, next year or the year after - while tying up pretty significant cap space and not allowing us to sign a major complementary piece as Nash ages.

Philadelphia giving away a 1st for Carter?

MickaelPietrus wrote:Philadelphia giving away a 1st for Carter?

No, Philly giving up a 1st to get a player with essentially a $4 million buyout in place of a guy who's making like $35 mil over the next 2 seasons.

Miklo wrote:

MickaelPietrus wrote:Philadelphia giving away a 1st for Carter?

No, Philly giving up a 1st to get a player with essentially a $4 million buyout in place of a guy who's making like $35 mil over the next 2 seasons.

This.

And I agree with you about the fact that Brand's contract outruns Nash by a year, Miklo. That's the only pause I had too.

I don't worry as much though, considering it is his final season and he will be one of (if not) the largest exprirings in the league. Assume Nash retires along with Grant:

PG - Dragic
SG - Childress
SF - Dudley
PF - Brand / Frye / Warrick
C - Gortat / Lopez

That's $46m in salary, excluding Dragic's extension and Dudley's new contract. Call those two contracts $10m, you'll have $56m under contract with $18m expiring after one season to bring the total back down to $38m not counting rookie scale players or vet mins.

I guess I just get giddy thinking about a PF who can score 15+ while grabbing 9+ rebounds next to a C who is hopefully gabbing 10+.

I am so down for this idea.

I think it's the other way around. We give up VC + 1st for Brand. whatever it is we are going to make another move before the deadline.

I rather develop Lawal.

And again, if the Suns were to make another trade, I'd rather not see Vince Carter let go. I'd much rather do a package that involves two of our players, using our TPE (from Amare), and possibly a first round draft pick. Here is my proposed deal.
Suns get-
Elton Brand
2nd Round Pick

Sixers get-
Hakim Warrick
Mikael Pietrus
1st Round Pick (Magic)

I don't see the Sixers giving up their first round pick just to dump salary, especially unprotected.

Nash/Dragic
Carter/Dudley
Hill/Childress
Brand/Frye
Lopez/Gortat

And now the Suns finally have a balanced roster. I would even through in our first round pick too, so the Sixers can hit the total rebuild mode.

Qwigglez wrote:Here is my proposed deal.
Suns get-
Elton Brand
2nd Round Pick

Sixers get-
Hakim Warrick
Mikael Pietrus
1st Round Pick (Magic)

I don't think this get's close to working salary wise. In addition, there is absolutely no reason we should be sending out a pick for Brand.

I think for sure they'd have to give us their unprotected 2011 1st round pick with Brand for us to take on his contract. I don't think it's a bad trade, if Brand's contract ended next year like Nash's it would be perfect but as others have mentioned he's only under contract 1 more year after that. As long as the Suns keep Nash and Hill around and have Sarver as their owner I think a total rebuild is out of the question. Brand in a running system wouldn't be ideal but with the Suns training staff to keep him fresh who knows. This trade's a toss up...

TXSun wrote:I think it's the other way around. We give up VC + 1st for Brand. whatever it is we are going to make another move before the deadline.

We may or may not make another move, but I doubt it will be a big move like a lot of you are suggesting. If anything, it will be a small move with one or more of our picks or a pick and bench player for a PF of either decent skills or future potential. Gentry has stated numerous times already that they did not trade for Carter as cap relief or trade bait, they expect good things from him, peaches and gortat. Besides, if you really think about it, they are not going to have a big trade like this, fight to gain chemistry only to throw it out the window two months later, it makes no sense.

We are already behind chemistry wise because of this big trade, and everybody knows we have to get rolling real quick if we are to have enough time to get back in the playoff race, why would they shoot themselves in the foot two months later and have to start all over again ?

realsunsfan wrote:

TXSun wrote:I think it's the other way around. We give up VC + 1st for Brand. whatever it is we are going to make another move before the deadline.

We may or may not make another move, but I doubt it will be a big move like a lot of you are suggesting. If anything, it will be a small move with one or more of our picks or a pick and bench player for a PF of either decent skills or future potential. Gentry has stated numerous times already that they did not trade for Carter as cap relief or trade bait, they expect good things from him, peaches and gortat. Besides, if you really think about it, they are not going to have a big trade like this, fight to gain chemistry only to throw it out the window two months later, it makes no sense.

We are already behind chemistry wise because of this big trade, and everybody knows we have to get rolling real quick if we are to have enough time to get back in the playoff race, why would they shoot themselves in the foot two months later and have to start all over again ?

I disagree. the way we pulled the trigger on this trade, you know we are going to make another major move just before the deadline. I mean who pulls the trigger on a blockbuster deal 2 1/2 months before the deadline and 20 games into the season? unheard of. we have all the pieces in place to make a huge move. VC's expiring contract, MLE, 1st rounder from ORL, and either Pietrus, Childress, or Warrick. Even Gortat is expendable, many reports have stated that the phones don't stop ringing for Gortat. At this point i don't see us going very far with this lineup, something big has to happen.

From what I understand 76ers are pretty happy with Brand currently. Plus Sarver would never consider the deal because of salary.

^ im not talking about this deal. I'm talking about making another major deal in general, right before the deadline. The brand for vc deal is a sweet deal but it will not happen.

Sun Scorched wrote:I don't think this get's close to working salary wise. In addition, there is absolutely no reason we should be sending out a pick for Brand.

Brand is playing quite well for the Sixers, though their team is doing terrible. Giving up a late first round pick wouldn't bother me.
The Suns would be able to find a loop hole to make the trade work financially using our TPE worth 5.7mil. Actually, if we really needed it to work, we could probably send Josh Childress to Philly for Elton Brandon straight up since I believe, after using our Trade Player Exception, we would be within 125% of the incoming salary. However, Philly wouldn't want Childress's contract, so we could break this down to make it essentially a three team trade involving New York.
Suns get-
Elton Brand

Philly get-
Eddy Curry
Kelenna Azubuike
Wilson Chandler
Anthony Randolph
1st Round Pick (Magic)
1st Round Pick (Knicks)

Knicks get-
Andre Iguodala
Josh Childress
Hakim Warrick

Sixers get to rebuild with Evans, Anthony Randolph, Wilson Chandler, Mareese Speights. D'Antoni would have his perfect 8-9 man rotation: Felton, Iggy, Gal, Amare, Turiaf, Childress, Fields, Warrick. Though this trade is very complex, and I doubt it would actually work, lol. But I'm bored. So roll with it.

It's too risky. We just got lucky dumping one bad contract and we put ourselves in almost the same situation. I'd rather give up Vince and a pick for Iggy. Someone who guarantees us a very good starter for the next few years at a position of need. We could sign an upgrade at PF this summer or draft one with our other pick. Brand hasn't been consistant enough to commit that much money to, imo. Lets not get burned again.

I like this rebuild-on-the-fly approach.

About VC - I hate to give up VC because I think he has a lot left in the tank, plus I think we can sign him to a more reasonable contract after this year. If we could get him at a reasonable salary and his performace was there as most believe it is, he would be good as a startng SG or great as a 6th man.

Having said that I think getting a higher claiber PF (not a superstar) is the bigger priority right now. Although I like Z-bo better, Brand would be more realistic in a trade for VC as Brand has a longer contract that 76'ers would like to move. Plus we get their 1st. Why do they give us their 1st instead of the other way around? Because talent being traded (VC and Brand) are roughly equal, 76's get the expiring contract and Suns get the pick.

Stockpiling 3 1st round picks will help in the Perry Jones hunt.

Yeah because Philly would love to give up their draft pick and have Carter, Iggy and Turner at the wing...

WTFsunsFTW wrote:Yeah because Philly would love to give up their draft pick and have Carter, Iggy and Turner at the wing...

At least my trade makes sense.