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Kevin Johnson>Steve Nash..... for best SUNS PG intheir PRIME

Posted: Fri Jan 14, 2011 12:24 am
by jwilb49
I found this article...... it was well written... let me know what you think.....

Double-threat point guards who are defensive liabilities are part of the folklore of the Phoenix Suns. With the exception of Magic Johnson – who was just a physical anomaly with wonderful vision – Kevin Johnson (KJ) was the first point guard (at least in the modern era of my memory) who could both pass and shoot. Cotton Fitzsimmons used to say that only good things could happen when KJ went to the hoop.
For you younger readers, Chris Paul looks a heckuva (from the John Madden drinking game) lot like KJ. Trust me on this one. The problem was that KJ took such a pounding that he was quickly reduced to making guest appearances during the regular season (his understudy was Negele Knight) and the playoffs. He took a short break, though, and came back to the Suns.
Similarities:
Pass-first point guards who can nail their shots and carry their team. Both create for themselves and their teams with dribble penetration. KJ, like Nash, was wonderful at pulling up on the break and hitting the jumper.
Does anyone else in Phoenix listen to the Al McCoy broadcast while watching the game on TV? During that Game 5 in Utah, the radio feed was a split second faster than the TV feed and Al told us that the shot was in while, on TV, it looked to be still in the air.
Nash is great at that, too. I love to watch the fundamentals. A jump-stop followed by a jump-shot is a great thing to see.
At this point, it is interesting to note that Jason Kidd was a great Suns’ point guard that did not have the jumper but had the defense. I guess you can’t get everything you want.
Differences:
Steve Nash’s three-point range and his MVPs. KJ had neither of those two things.
On the MVP front, it is interesting to note KJ’s relative lack of acclaim. KJ averaged better than 20 and 10 in 1988-1989, 1989-1990 and 1990-1991. He narrowly missed his 20-10 average in 1991-1992 (19.7 and 10.7), 1993-1994 (20 and 9.5), and 1996-1997 (20 and 9.3). In Barkley’s first year, he laid (pun intended – it’s kind of like a Jeep Thing, if you have to ask, you wouldn’t understand) off the scoring, averaging only 16 and 8. For his career, he averaged 18 and 9. Perhaps his biggest fault lies with his poor playoff performance during the 1993 Finals.
Nash, on the other hand, has never averaged more than 20 points in a season, but does have four seasons with double-digits in assists. His star is also burning hotter and more quickly, with career averages of only 14.1 and 7.7 (current).
It is interesting to note that KJ’s career, at least statistically speaking, is better than Nash’s career thus far. KJ went deep in the playoffs and made a Finals appearance. That having been said, would KJ in his prime on this current team mean that the Suns have a better squad? I’m not sure, what do you think?

IN MY OPINION KJ WAS BETTER ..... HE ALSO LED US TO THE FINALS, SOMETHING NASH HAS NEVER DONE... HE HAD ONE OF THE MOST HISTORIC DUNKS OVER OLAJUWON, AND WAS ONE OF THE GREATEST PG'S FOR THE SUNS

Re: Kevin Johnson>Steve Nash..... for best SUNS PG of all time

Posted: Fri Jan 14, 2011 12:28 am
by jwilb49
only if you have watched KJ or grew up in that ERA..... i dont want any NASH HOMERS talkin crap without knowing info

Re: Kevin Johnson>Steve Nash..... for best SUNS PG of all time

Posted: Fri Jan 14, 2011 12:32 am
by sunshoopjunky
Firts of all let me say this:

I LOVE ME SOME KJ!!! In fact my 3 year old son is named after him. If your talking about both players durring the prime of their careers? Its easy, KJ win hands down for sure!! But that comparison is not a fair one due to the short career of KJ vs the Iron Man status of Nash. So if you ask the same question and take the prime part out, I think you have to go with Nash. Great idea for the forum tho.
One other thing is that KJ was way better way quicker as it took Nash in my opinion way way longer to get to the great status.

Re: Kevin Johnson>Steve Nash..... for best SUNS PG of all time

Posted: Fri Jan 14, 2011 12:34 am
by Miklo
Interesting, got a link? Just curious where it's from

Re: Kevin Johnson>Steve Nash..... for best SUNS PG of all time

Posted: Fri Jan 14, 2011 12:36 am
by MaryvalesFinest
Agreed, I'd also rank Kidd and Marbury ahead of him during their time in a Suns uniform.

(Just my opinion, I know some people will disagree with that)

Re: Kevin Johnson>Steve Nash..... for best SUNS PG of all time

Posted: Fri Jan 14, 2011 12:37 am
by jwilb49

Re: Kevin Johnson>Steve Nash..... for best SUNS PG of all time

Posted: Fri Jan 14, 2011 12:39 am
by Miklo


Nice, thanks

IMO I think KJ still has the edge but they'll probably end up being remembered on equal levels

Re: Kevin Johnson>Steve Nash..... for best SUNS PG of all time

Posted: Fri Jan 14, 2011 12:39 am
by jwilb49
MaryvalesFinest wrote:Agreed, I'd also rank Kidd and Marbury ahead of him during their time in a Suns uniform.

(Just my opinion, I know some people will disagree with that)



wait are u saying kidd and marbury are ahead of NASH or KJ

Re: Kevin Johnson>Steve Nash..... for best SUNS PG of all time

Posted: Fri Jan 14, 2011 12:40 am
by jwilb49
ast ppg
87-88 CLE 52 3 20.1 .460 .222 .821 .20 1.20 1.40 3.7 1.15 .33 1.58 1.80 7.3
87-88 PHO 28 25 31.2 .463 .200 .859 .90 3.30 4.30 8.7 1.54 .25 2.29 2.10 12.6
88-89 PHO 81 81 39.2 .505 .091 .882 .60 3.60 4.20 12.2 1.67 .30 3.98 2.80 20.4
89-90 PHO 74 74 37.6 .499 .195 .838 .60 3.10 3.60 11.4 1.28 .19 3.55 1.90 22.5
90-91 PHO 77 76 36.0 .516 .205 .843 .70 2.80 3.50 10.1 2.12 .14 3.49 2.30 22.2
91-92 PHO 78 78 37.2 .479 .217 .807 .80 3.00 3.70 10.7 1.49 .29 3.49 2.30 19.7

92-93 PHO 49 47 33.5 .499 .125 .819 .60 1.50 2.10 7.8 1.73 .39 3.08 2.00 16.1
93-94 PHO 67 67 36.6 .487 .222 .819 .80 1.70 2.50 9.5 1.87 .15 3.51 1.90 20.0
94-95 PHO 47 35 28.8 .470 .154 .810 .70 1.80 2.40 7.7 1.00 .38 2.23 1.90 15.5
95-96 PHO 56 55 35.8 .507 .368 .859 .80 3.20 3.90 9.2 1.46 .23 3.04 2.60 18.7
96-97 PHO 70 70 38.0 .496 .441 .852 .80 2.80 3.60 9.3 1.46 .17 3.10 2.00 20.1
97-98 PHO 50 12 25.8 .447 .154 .871 .70 2.60 3.30 4.9 .54 .16 2.02 1.10 9.5
99-00 PHO 6 0 18.8 .571 1.000 1.000 .00 2.70 2.70 4.0 .33 .00 1.17 1.00 6.7

the bold years were consistently avg over 20 pts and 10 assts except the last one is 19.7 but close enough...

he was never up for MVP due to playing the same time as MJ

Re: Kevin Johnson>Steve Nash..... for best SUNS PG of all time

Posted: Fri Jan 14, 2011 12:41 am
by MaryvalesFinest
jwilb49 wrote:
MaryvalesFinest wrote:Agreed, I'd also rank Kidd and Marbury ahead of him during their time in a Suns uniform.

(Just my opinion, I know some people will disagree with that)



wait are u saying kidd and marbury are ahead of NASH or KJ


Nash

Re: Kevin Johnson>Steve Nash..... for best SUNS PG of all time

Posted: Fri Jan 14, 2011 12:42 am
by jwilb49
ok i dont agree that marbury or kidd were.. but KJ

brought us to the SHIP and had 4 years ina row that were better then nash's back to back mvp years

Re: Kevin Johnson>Steve Nash..... for best SUNS PG of all time

Posted: Fri Jan 14, 2011 12:46 am
by DirtyDez
KJ always had problems with his hamstrings so his peak was pretty short. In terms of numbers for his best 3-4 years streak was very good. I think only, KJ, Magic and Chris Paul are the only PG's to average 20/10+ over 3 straight seasons. In today's game a prime KJ would be neck and neck with CP3 for best PG. In my opinion he's the greatest player in Suns history but during his time he was overshadowed by HOF PG's.. Magic, Isiah, Stockton, etc...

Re: Kevin Johnson>Steve Nash..... for best SUNS PG intheir PRIME

Posted: Fri Jan 14, 2011 12:54 am
by jwilb49

Re: Kevin Johnson>Steve Nash..... for best SUNS PG intheir PRIME

Posted: Fri Jan 14, 2011 12:58 am
by Calvin Klein
2 time.

Re: Kevin Johnson>Steve Nash..... for best SUNS PG intheir PRIME

Posted: Fri Jan 14, 2011 1:00 am
by jwilb49
Calvin Klein wrote:2 time.



KJ took us to finals...

and performed 4 years in a row better then "2 time"

Re: Kevin Johnson>Steve Nash..... for best SUNS PG intheir PRIME

Posted: Fri Jan 14, 2011 1:12 am
by Calvin Klein
you mean the other Suns MVP Charles Barkley?

Yes. I thought so.

I love KJ by the way, but you're making yourself look like a fool.

Re: Kevin Johnson>Steve Nash..... for best SUNS PG intheir PRIME

Posted: Fri Jan 14, 2011 1:18 am
by jwilb49
Calvin Klein wrote:you mean the other Suns MVP Charles Barkley?

Yes. I thought so.

I love KJ by the way, but you're making yourself look like a fool.



HOW ... this is about PG's in there prime... not BARKLEY

Re: Kevin Johnson>Steve Nash..... for best SUNS PG intheir PRIME

Posted: Fri Jan 14, 2011 2:03 am
by RunSunRun
Comparing Nash to KJ is like comparing a Ferrari to a Maserati, both are/were just absolutely amazing and we would be extremely lucky to have another PG in the future who could equal what they have done for the Suns.

Right now Dragic is like a Geo Metro, :lol: :cry:

Re: Kevin Johnson>Steve Nash..... for best SUNS PG intheir PRIME

Posted: Fri Jan 14, 2011 2:23 am
by DRK
RunSunRun wrote:Comparing Nash to KJ is like comparing a Ferrari to a Maserati, both are/were just absolutely amazing and we would be extremely lucky to have another PG in the future who could equal what they have done for the Suns.

Right now Dragic is like a Geo Metro, :lol: :cry:


Except Maserati went bankrupt a dozen times and was owned by Ferrari group for a period of time.

I don't know what you are trying to imply with that simile.

Re: Kevin Johnson>Steve Nash..... for best SUNS PG intheir PRIME

Posted: Fri Jan 14, 2011 2:32 am
by RunSunRun
Da_Reel_Kboy wrote:
RunSunRun wrote:Comparing Nash to KJ is like comparing a Ferrari to a Maserati, both are/were just absolutely amazing and we would be extremely lucky to have another PG in the future who could equal what they have done for the Suns.

Right now Dragic is like a Geo Metro, :lol: :cry:


Except Maserati went bankrupt a dozen times and was owned by Ferrari group for a period of time.

I don't know what you are trying to imply with that simile.


Seriously? Seriously?

I'm trying to say both Nash and KJ are both amazing players and you nitpick about Maserati? Seriously? Does every poster here nowadays have an extreme case of sandy vaginitis? Can't even make jokes on this forum without someone being a complete douche