The Suns season began on January 12

[Wannabe MEP]

This is the ranking by point-differential over the last 25% of the season (point-differential is statistically a better predictor of future success than W/L records).

1) Chicago Bulls
2) Orlando Magic
3) Phoenix Suns
4) San Antonio Spurs
5) Boston Celtics
6) New Orleans Hornets
7) Memphis Grizzlies
8) Los Angeles Lakers
9) Miami Heat
10) Oklahoma City Thunder

Isn't that interesting? This is obviously not an actual ranking of the best teams, and it doesn't take into account SOS. But I don't see how there can be any doubt: We are not the same team that we were before the trade (plus a little time to develop chemistry).

People keep looking at the Suns overall record, but this team is not 24-25. This team is 9-4.

This team has four double-digit victories, and seven victories by at least 8 points. This team has four victories over probably playoff teams, including the Hornets, Celtics, and a Knicks team that had previously blown us out by 25 points. This team handed Boston its worst defeat of the season.

[rsavaj]

I agree this team is a much-improved version of the pre-trade team, but it also exhibits an alarming tendency to absolutely fall apart down the stretch. I'm still not convinced until I see that improve.

[Wannabe MEP]

I agree this team is a much-improved version of the pre-trade team, but it also exhibits an alarming tendency to absolutely fall apart down the stretch. I'm still not convinced until I see that improve.

Hmm...we could try what we did against Boston. Hmm.. let's see...

Oh, I know! Nash + Four out with four 3-point shooters. 8-2 run to ice the game, after the offense had stagnated before that lineup change.

[Wannabe MEP]

You'd be surprised...Channing Frye has among the best CLUTCH +/- numbers in the league. Not because he scores necessarily at all, but because a pick-and-roll with good spacing is probably the best go-to plan in clutch minutes. Frye allows you to do that without going small. A lot of teams just iso in clutch minutes, which works OK if you have LeBron James or Dirk Nowitzki...otherwise, it's really, really stupid.

Nash - Carter - Dudley - Frye - Gortat

should be our clutch lineup.

[chefsunsfan7]

Excellent points. I agree wholeheartedly.

[aIvin adams]

suns season began on februrary 7

they are undefeated! YEAAAAAHHH!!!

[SSOL]

Am I crazy or did you say Nash and four three-point shooters in one post and then include Gortat in another - who doesn't shoot threes.

[Wannabe MEP]

Am I crazy or did you say Nash and four three-point shooters in one post and then include Gortat in another - who doesn't shoot threes.

4-out/1-in. Nash is one of the four.

Rule #1: Nash is on the court.
Rule #2: Four offensive perimeter players (including Nash).
Rule #3: All four perimeter players can (and do) make threes if left open.
Rule #4: One-in. Nash's main PnR partner.

From another thread:

Options for one-in dude:
Gortat
Fropez
Warrick
Childress

Options for four-out dudes:
Nash
Dragic
Pietrus
Carter
Dudley
Frye

Mix-and-match at will, with a couple of caveats:

1) If Warrick/Childress is the one-in dude, Frye is on the court.
2) If Gortat/Fropez is the one-in dude, and Frye is not on the court, Dudley is the four.

30 total combinations:

Nash -- _____ -- _____ -- Frye -- Gortat/Fropez (12 combinations)
Nash -- _____ -- _____ -- Warrick/Childress -- Frye (12 combinations)
Nash -- _____ -- _____ -- Dudley -- Gortat/Fropez (6 combinations)

[YFZblu]

I'd be excited about this, however I still think Gentry is going to find ways to screw up the rotation by doing the following things:

1) He'll play Hakim Warrick--Warrick brings NOTHING to the table outside of dunking, and Nash is skilled enough to run an elite offense without it. Glue Warrick to the bench please.

2) He'll play Dragic when Dragic is healthy--Offensively, Dragic's confidence is so low that he literally refuses to shoot the ball even when he's wide open. Defensively, he's just as bad; he plays hard, but he is bone-headed and can't stay controlled emotionally.

3) He'll continue to give Dudley limited minutes--Jared Dudley plays like a skilled veteran, and IMO he needs to be receiving monstrous minutes.

In closing, Gentry needs to tighten the rotation by refusing to play ineffective players.

[RunDogGun]

Warrick does well in the advance stats on basketball reference. The problem is how we use him. It appears that we got him to be an Amare-lite, yet we rarely use him as such. When we do, he does great. We either play him with Nash or we should not play him. His win shares are fifth, and it is funny that our top five include Nash, Hill, Dudley, Frye, and Warrick, which was a closing lineup a few times, that did quite well. His defensive win shares aren't that good, but better than Carter, and way better than Pietrus. His offensive win shares are fourth. His total rebound percentage is fifth for our team. His steal and assist % is not good at all.

Dragic doesn't have the players around him that he needs to help his confidence. Often this year, we have given him the guys that didn't fit with Nash, and tried to see what he can do with them. He needs a steady lineup like he had last year, where he could feel like he is a starter (usually a stable consistent lineup like the starting lineup) just happens to be with the second unit. He found his greatest success that way. Hill has to be played with Goran, so that Hill is the one running that group, allowing Goran to be more off the ball.

I don't understand the Dudley minutes, nor do I understand the Chilldress DNPs. Often we need a guy that slashes to the basket creating second chances for this team, like Lou did last year. Often when Chilldress is in the lineup, we see this. But when we need it, Gentry opts for guys that are content with chucking, and never following their shots. Very little movement or energy.

Overall, Gentry has done a poor job this year. His rotations have made little sense, he often takes guys out of the game when they are hot, lets them cool, and then tries to bring them back too late. It is almost like he is trying to tank games.

[Sun Scorched]

Sigh...

Los Soles, I agree with your spacing arguement and I think it's a valid one.

But the only "four-out" guy that starts above Hill is Nash and the only "one-in" guy that has that honor should be Gortat. Hill could hit the corner trey, but what I'm more interested in is what you consider "out".

My only reason is that I have seen the Suns "four-out" guys shoot us out of winable games since the beginning of the D'antoni era and I am completely fine with having a guy, like Hill, on the floor who can score when everyone else has their thumb up their ass.

To my mind, Hill's 15-footer (which is as close to automatic as it gets) is enough "out" for him to spread the floor. Additionally, the Suns making a play against a soft and open interior requires people who can slash and score in the paint. I don't trust Pietrus, Dudley, or Frye with that responsibility. Nash, Carter, and Dragic... okay. But Hill's the best out of all of those. That, and he plays the best defense on the team and rebounds better than any of the other "out" guys listed.

/end rant. Sorry to beat a dead horse and all. I guess you know where I stand.

[impulsenine]

and it doesn't take into account SOS

We've had a few wins over >.500 teams but beating up on the cellar-dwellers shouldn't be used as a reason to garner hope.

Of course, I totally agree with you.

[irish22022]

Vince Carter is anti-clutch. He doesn't belong on the court in the last 3 minutes (even if he has 40). He thinks he can hit it, so he'll shoot it. he just doesn't make them. the only way he's of value is drawing more defense, but the guy needs to hit a few before that will happen.

[Frank Lee]

I'll take Hill over Carter (a rested Hill) all day long. Grant should be on the floor the last 6 minutes a game, 4 out be damned


Plus what Irish said

[RaisingArizona]

Vince Carter is anti-clutch. He doesn't belong on the court in the last 3 minutes (even if he has 40). He thinks he can hit it, so he'll shoot it. he just doesn't make them. the only way he's of value is drawing more defense, but the guy needs to hit a few before that will happen.

Both Frye and Carter.

[Wannabe MEP]

Vince Carter is anti-clutch. He doesn't belong on the court in the last 3 minutes (even if he has 40). He thinks he can hit it, so he'll shoot it. he just doesn't make them. the only way he's of value is drawing more defense, but the guy needs to hit a few before that will happen.

Both Frye and Carter.

I love how the fact that if a fan remembers a couple of highlight reel makes or misses, it's supposed to be some kind of proof of someone's clutch capabilities.

2009-2010 clutch numbers say: +/- per 48 minutes of clutch time Vince Carter was #11 and Channing Frye was #14 in the NBA at +21 and +20.

[gino_giode]

I hope the Suns run more back screens and lob passes for Vince like they did right after the trade. I remember that play where Grant set a back screen and Vince got an easy reverse dunk. I don't know if it's because Vince can't dunk anymore or the Suns aren't actively pushing those plays?

Anyways, I'm liking the chemistry out on the court. The guys look like they're all actively supportive of one another. And there's a nice mix of inside-outside scoring, especially with Gortat gaining confidence by the game. However, I'm not liking how the team casually keep bombing away and taking naps on defense to let the other team back in.

[Wannabe MEP]

Los Soles, I agree with your spacing arguement and I think it's a valid one.

To my mind, Hill's 15-footer (which is as close to automatic as it gets) is enough "out" for him to spread the floor. Additionally, the Suns making a play against a soft and open interior requires people who can slash and score in the paint. I don't trust Pietrus, Dudley, or Frye with that responsibility. Nash, Carter, and Dragic... okay. But Hill's the best out of all of those. That, and he plays the best defense on the team and rebounds better than any of the other "out" guys listed.

You, Gentry, and just about everyone else...

I'm just so sick of seeing Hill camped wide-open on the 3-point line with his man parked in the paint. Nash definitely avoids passing it to him... until he has no other choice. And then Hill always hesitates. Look, I'm not insisting on 48 minutes of 4-out SSOL. But can we at least do it for like 20 minutes a game, instead of like 2??

Sun Scorched, I've never heard your opinion on either of these options:

1) Run Hill as a point-forward sometimes.
2) Play a big, slow-it-down team with midrange-iso players at times. Something like: PG-Carter-Hill-Gortat-Lopez. Purposefully contrast that with 4-out SSOL.

[Sun Scorched]

Look, it's like football in that you need to have a balanced attack in order to consistently win. Both a passing and ground game need to be established in order to keep the defense honest and the offensive play calling busted wide open

In basketball, you need both an inside and outside threat. We were able to run SSOL so well because of the interior threat Stoudemire provided. Gortat has impressed of late, but he's no Amare. To that point, if a team keys in on our perimeter guys, we're in trouble. Not saying we can't win games that way, but if you live by the three you'll die by the three.

The Suns can get jump shot happy when no one is taking it to the rim and, truth is, when someone is doing that and the defense collapses the treys fall more readily.

Frankly, I'd like to see some Hill/Gortat PNR action. Id like to see Steve playing off-ball in a spot-up shooting role with Hill handling. I think there are creative ways to use our guys without handcuffing our team to 3 chuckers, Nash, and the Cracken.

[Wannabe MEP]

Id like to see Steve playing off-ball in a spot-up shooting role with Hill handling.

I'm generally of the opinion that it's inadvisable to move:

Jerry Rice to quarterback
Mia Hamm to goalie
Randy Johnson to outfielder

Maybe that's just me.

Look, it's like football in that you need to have a balanced attack in order to consistently win. Both a passing and ground game need to be established in order to keep the defense honest and the offensive play calling busted wide open

In basketball, you need both an inside and outside threat.

That, my friend, is THE WHOLE F*CKING POINT.

We were able to run SSOL so well because of the interior threat Stoudemire provided.

Really? Look at these units. These are the five units we used the most in last season's playoffs, ranked by total minutes.

minutes . . . . . . . . . . . . players in unit . . . . . . . . . . . . .+APM/-APM

143.85 -- Nash - Richardson - Hill - Stoudemire - Frye (unit) -0.60
103.78 -- Nash - Richardson - Hill - Stoudemire - Collins (unit) -3.92
96.62 -- Dragic - Barbosa - Dudley - Amundson - Frye (unit) 4.78
87.28 -- Nash - Richardson - Dudley - Stoudemire - Frye (unit) 5.09
79.20 -- Nash - Richardson - Hill - Stoudemire - Lopez (unit) -7.92

What do you suppose was the key for these two units, the two best ones? Hint: It wasn't Stoudemire.

Dragic - Barbosa - Dudley - Amundson - Frye (unit) 4.78
Nash - Richardson - Dudley - Stoudemire - Frye (unit) 5.09